Gustard X20?

navi · « **Reply #400 on:** 2 Nov 2016, 10:47 pm »

I've been using my Gustard X-20u as a DAC/Pre for the last few months. i though it sounded pretty good but I just finished my LDR/Pass B1 buffer pre-amp and it showed me that the X-20 really needs a pre. With the pre-amp the music has a bit more weight and bass sounds more tuneful. I did wish the pre-amp made no difference as the less boxes the better.

andycsb · « **Reply #401 on:** 4 Nov 2016, 05:34 pm »

Hi Guys...is the x20 known to sound...

1)Neutral
2)Warm and analogue/organic
3)Cool and detailed

Thanks

Triplefun · « **Reply #402 on:** 5 Nov 2016, 06:21 pm »

Quote from: sruffle on 31 Oct 2016, 12:47 am

Thanks for commenting on your experiences. Was 256 with the U12 a significant step up from 128 over DOP?

I'm curious enough because I have a U12 that is currently not in use. I'm wondering if inserting another piece in the chain will cause some loss of detail versus going straight into the USB on the X20. There is also the question of what type of HDMI cable to use (I have no idea if the quality of HDMI cables will impact the sound)

Listening to classical orchestral with dsd256 and the u12 I found improved transients and bigger soundstage. The improvement was slightly better and more satisfying than moving from dsd64 to dsd128. I used the shortest HDMI cable I could find for the i2s connectivity (30cm). Adding devices in the digital realm has less impact than analog but make sure you have short cables! with good connectors!

Triplefun · « **Reply #403 on:** 5 Nov 2016, 06:31 pm »

Quote from: andycsb on 4 Nov 2016, 05:34 pm

Hi Guys...is the x20 known to sound...

1)Neutral
2)Warm and analogue/organic
3)Cool and detailed

Thanks

I think a lot depends on your other equipment. Compared to my original gustard x10 I found the x20 improved staging, slightly more forward, better dynamics and less clinical. It is not a warm sound although pairing with a valve preamp removes some of the chill.

sruffle · « **Reply #404 on:** 6 Nov 2016, 11:17 pm »

Quote from: Triplefun on 5 Nov 2016, 06:21 pm

Listening to classical orchestral with dsd256 and the u12 I found improved transients and bigger soundstage. The improvement was slightly better and more satisfying than moving from dsd64 to dsd128. I used the shortest HDMI cable I could find for the i2s connectivity (30cm). Adding devices in the digital realm has less impact than analog but make sure you have short cables! with good connectors!

Thanks for that info. I will have to give it a try at some point. I just got a newer MacMini that should have the processing power to let me do 256

navi · « **Reply #405 on:** 6 Nov 2016, 11:22 pm »

Quote from: andycsb on 4 Nov 2016, 05:34 pm

Hi Guys...is the x20 known to sound...

1)Neutral
2)Warm and analogue/organic
3)Cool and detailed

Thanks

1&3

Modified · « **Reply #406 on:** 7 Nov 2016, 12:06 pm »

Quote from: navi on 6 Nov 2016, 11:22 pm

1&3

...and if you prefer 2 you choose obviously A20H.

andycsb · « **Reply #407 on:** 15 Nov 2016, 08:33 pm »

Thanks Everyone for your feedback.

@Modified...yup I am seeking #2 for sure. Full, warm, romantic and analogue sounding. Btw...do you have experience with the Teac UD503 and would they qualify too? Sorry...I know this is a Gustard thread...but I do need recommendations for under 1K dacs...new or used which fit the criteria. Prominent and unrefined HF is a definite no no. Anyone else? Thanks for your help!

JackD · « **Reply #408 on:** 15 Nov 2016, 09:35 pm »

Nuprime DAC-9
Musical Paradise MP-D2

On SS and one tube. Both use the AKM 4490 chipset. I've had the Musical Paradise for about six months and it allows for vast amounts of tube and capacitor rolling and combinations.

Ric Schultz · « **Reply #409 on:** 15 Nov 2016, 10:00 pm »

The new Gustard X20U Pro is about to start shipping. It uses two of the new ESS Pro DACs.....the 9028. It will be interesting to see what the DAC change will bring. Here is a preview of a DAC using this chip that describes why the new chips are better. We could have a serious game changer here....we will know soon. Maybe the ESS "sound" will be more analog now. I find it fine as it is....but I always want more.

http://6moons.com/audioreviews2/resonessence/2.html

Another description of possible sonic benefits:

https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/dac3-introducing-the-new-es9028pro-converter

underdog64 · « **Reply #410 on:** 15 Nov 2016, 10:27 pm »

Ric-I have your modded Oppo BDP-105 (and really love the sound btw),didn't I read the 9028 pro is a direct drop in replacement for the 9018 in my Oppo? I realize the Gustard has one per channel to the Oppo's single but I really love the Oppo's ability to do Blu Ray Audio,24/96 DVD,DVD-A and HDCD plus I don't have the money (or space ) right how for a seperate DAC.Would any of us be able to get 9028 pro chips through you to upgrade or are there any suppliers that sell these to the consumer direct?

Ric Schultz · « **Reply #411 on:** 16 Nov 2016, 02:03 am »

The DACs are pin compatible but desoldering the old one and putting in a new one? Whoa! You would probably have to remove most of the electrolytic caps around the DAC and have a proper hot air soldering/desoldering station (me no have).....and then you might have to re-program the chip to make it work. Very tricky and tweaky to change surface mount smallish parts with tiny pins REAL close together. Not for the faint of heart. Anotherwords.....don't think anyone is going to upgrade their 9018 to a 9028 unless the board is very open with very little parts around it. But, some people will try most anything. I am seriously crazy but no way would I try this. I am sure there are ways to get the chip. Back in the 90s the DAC chips were large and had big pins and you could literally solder each pin individually. Now the are flat surface mount things with a million tiny pins. Slight exaggeration....how about 64 pins.

A DAC chip change alone will not give everything someone wants. No silver bullets here. For instance, I am pretty sure the stock Oppo Sonica DAC (with single 9038 chip) will not sound anywhere near as good as a stock Gustard PRO. Oppo does not use good power supply parts, resistors, has coupling caps on the output, etc. etc.). The Gustard is pretty tweaky right out of the gate except for some overlooked but important easy to do mods. I am hoping the new ESS DAC chips make a serious difference (we shall know soon) by themselves but everything you do to a player/DAC changes the sound.

underdog64 · « **Reply #412 on:** 16 Nov 2016, 02:10 am »

Ric-Do you have any idea what kind of clock Gustard will use this time around? Will it be the same one (non Femto)? I know the precision of the clock has a lot to do with how good a particular DAC design will sound at the end.

Ric Schultz · « **Reply #413 on:** 16 Nov 2016, 05:58 pm »

The last version of the old X20U used a Femto clock from Accusilicon.....pretty much the same specs as Crystek. The problem is, they have the clock on the digital board and run the clock signal through a coax cable between the digital and output boards. As part of my basic mod I create a custom coax and hardwire between the boards and bypass the coax connectors for better sound. My $100 clock upgrade consists of removing the coax connector at the DAC board and installing a Crystek clock right by the DACs and eliminating the coax cable. I power this clock from a hand made shunt regulator of my own design. I suspect that Gustard will keep the same arrangement with this new DAC but we will not know till we see a real picture of the insides of the new DAC. Currently, the pics all shown on the ads are of the old DAC. I will probably offer the expensive Italian Pulsar Clock clock as an upgrade. It is suppose to sound way better than the Crystek. It better, for >$400.....the Crystek is $31.

http://www.pulsarclock.com/ENHome.html

Modified · « **Reply #414 on:** 16 Nov 2016, 08:09 pm »

Quote from: andycsb on 15 Nov 2016, 08:33 pm

Thanks Everyone for your feedback.

@Modified...yup I am seeking #2 for sure. Full, warm, romantic and analogue sounding. Btw...do you have experience with the Teac UD503 and would they qualify too? Sorry...I know this is a Gustard thread...but I do need recommendations for under 1K dacs...new or used which fit the criteria. Prominent and unrefined HF is a definite no no. Anyone else? Thanks for your help!

Why don't you have a look at this
http://www.shenzhenaudio.com/gustard-a20h-hifi-dac-headphone-amplifier-double-ak4497eq-xmos-dsd256-384khz.html
AKM's flagship chips produce probably what you want.

Ric Schultz · « **Reply #415 on:** 16 Nov 2016, 09:04 pm »

Yes, "probably" is a good guess as the AKM DAC chips are reputed to be warmer than ESS chips. However, everything you do can change the sound. I can make an ESS DAC sound warm as anything. We have no idea how this new AKM Gustard sounds versus the new ESS Pro Gustard unit until someone A/Bs them. The new ESS DAC chips may indeed sound more "warm". We have no idea yet until one arrives here...hopefully shortly. Other companies are shipping or about to ship DACs with the new ESS DACs in them so there will be feedback over the next several months.....starting possibly with the comments on the Resonessence unit about to be reviewed on 6moons. Stay tuned.

Modified · « **Reply #416 on:** 16 Nov 2016, 09:18 pm »

Quote from: Ric Schultz on 16 Nov 2016, 09:04 pm

Yes, "probably" is a good guess as the AKM DAC chips are reputed to be warmer than ESS chips. However, everything you do can change the sound. I can make an ESS DAC sound warm as anything. We have no idea how this new AKM Gustard sounds versus the new ESS Pro Gustard unit until someone A/Bs them. The new ESS DAC chips may indeed sound more "warm". We have no idea yet until one arrives here...hopefully shortly. Other companies are shipping or about to ship DACs with the new ESS DACs in them so there will be feedback over the next several months.....starting possibly with the comments on the Resonessence unit about to be reviewed on 6moons. Stay tuned.

See milezone's post
http://www.head-fi.org/t/819083/gustard-a20h-dac-dual-ak4497eq-analog-preamp-headphone-amp-all-in-one/60

Ric Schultz · « **Reply #417 on:** 16 Nov 2016, 09:26 pm »

No real info there, except he says it sounds dry and clear......compared to what? And he is listening on headphones. We need a direct A/B with the new Pro unit using speakers to know anything about the sound differences. I could make is sound way less "dry". No problem.

Modified · « **Reply #418 on:** 17 Nov 2016, 03:54 pm »

Quote from: Ric Schultz on 16 Nov 2016, 09:26 pm

No real info there, except he says it sounds dry and clear......compared to what? And he is listening on headphones. We need a direct A/B with the new Pro unit using speakers to know anything about the sound differences. I could make is sound way less "dry". No problem.

Yeah, not really. Except he seems to be happy with it

And what I thought was interesting: "Playing direct out of the balanced out to a pair of Genelec active monitors yields excellent results."

I totally agree that the whole setting is what makes result. That's why trying to suggest someone something is always at best a good guess.

rajacat · « **Reply #419 on:** 18 Nov 2016, 06:48 am »

Is there an argument for ordering the Gustard X20U Pro without the USB? Would it be better to use a digital interface such as the Singxer SU1 for the best SQ? You can save ~$70 sans USB and put that money into a separate USB box. Which one?
Hmm....

Maybe I should get the integrated, just $70 so I can have something while I sort this all out.