HT2-TL + RAAL Upgrade?

advanced101 · « **on:** 2 Apr 2010, 09:54 pm »

Since Salk is now working with RAAL ribbons is it possible to offer an upgrade from the LCY on the HT2-TL with the RAAL from the Soundscape? I have heard a couple of designs with RAALs and they are my favorite ribbon out of the limited designs that I have heard. Although it would be expensive I would like to hear some thoughts on who would consider this upgrade.

DMurphy · « **Reply #1 on:** 2 Apr 2010, 11:23 pm »

If there's a demand, there's no reason why it couldn't be done from a design standpoint. The OEM RAAL baffle is actually a little smaller than the LCY's, so the woofers wouldn't have to be any farther apart. And the RAAL's response is not only about the smoothest thing going, it can be crossed lower than the LCY, and that's always a good thing with an MTM (particularly one with metal woofers). Obviously, Jim will have to figure out what price premium would be required and whether it really makes marketing sense.

jsalk · « **Reply #2 on:** 3 Apr 2010, 12:26 am »

I have no problem with that. If you want it, you can have it. The RAAL tweeter is not inexpensive by any means and new templates would have to be created. But we would certainly do it if you wanted. That's what we're here for.

- Jim

rahimlee54 · « **Reply #3 on:** 3 Apr 2010, 12:39 am »

Would you expect any big jump in SQ with the Raal Ribbon vs the LCY?

KnowTalent · « **Reply #4 on:** 3 Apr 2010, 12:51 am »

Quote from: jsalk on 3 Apr 2010, 12:26 am

I have no problem with that. If you want it, you can have it. The RAAL tweeter is not inexpensive by any means and new templates would have to be created. But we would certainly do it if you wanted. That's what we're here for.

- Jim

You're talking about the 70-20XR OEM model???

DMurphy · « **Reply #5 on:** 3 Apr 2010, 01:28 am »

That's the only model that would make any sense in an MTM. The larger model is way too large for proper woofer spacing, and the publicly available 10 mm version couldn't be crossed low enough. I would't know what practical audible difference all this would make without designing and building one. But I can assure you that it would be about the smoothest measuring speaker on this planet. I'm really hoping this will prove viable from a marketing standpoint, because the RAAL is a joy to work with

HoosierInOhio · « **Reply #6 on:** 3 Apr 2010, 02:11 am »

Any idea what the ballpark price increase would be? $500, $1K?

Nuance · « **Reply #7 on:** 3 Apr 2010, 05:08 am »

Quote from: DMurphy on 3 Apr 2010, 01:28 am

That's the only model that would make any sense in an MTM. The larger model is way too large for proper woofer spacing, and the publicly available 10 mm version couldn't be crossed low enough. I would't know what practical audible difference all this would make without designing and building one. But I can assure you that it would be about the smoothest measuring speaker on this planet. I'm really hoping this will prove viable from a marketing standpoint, because the RAAL is a joy to work with

Other than the SoundScape, of course.

DMurphy · « **Reply #8 on:** 3 Apr 2010, 03:33 pm »

Quote from: Nuance on 3 Apr 2010, 05:08 am

Other than the SoundScape, of course.

Well, on-axis I think they would be equally smooth. But off axis, the SS would do better because of its smaller dedicated midrange driver.

jsalk · « **Reply #9 on:** 3 Apr 2010, 04:10 pm »

Quote from: HoosierInOhio on 3 Apr 2010, 02:11 am

Any idea what the ballpark price increase would be? $500, $1K?

That would depend on how it is implemented and I wouldn't want to talk price until we've had a chance to do an analysis. I'm sure it would be at least $500. But one thing we would want to decide is if we would incorporate a switch to modify the tweeter level. The driver has three sets of coils with differing sensitivities. On the SoundScapes, we use a switch to offer flat response, -1 1/2 db and -3db tweeter settings. We could do the same. HOWEVER, that would involve a more complex wiring set-up, more cabinet routing and the cost of the switch and plate.

So the price would depend on whether we went with a fixed tweeter setting or offered the switch. Any thoughts?

- Jim

Vulcan00 · « **Reply #10 on:** 3 Apr 2010, 05:21 pm »

Are we talking about a upgrade made when purchacing the HT2-Tl? Or are talking a upgrade offered to exsisting HT2-TL owners?

DMurphy · « **Reply #11 on:** 3 Apr 2010, 05:50 pm »

That would be an upgrade for future RAAL purchasers. The RAAL tweeter couldn't be retrofitted on a current HT2 without replacing the crossover.

Art_Chicago · « **Reply #12 on:** 3 Apr 2010, 06:02 pm »

Just curious if the RAAL tweeter can be used to build a new pair of HT3?

DMurphy · « **Reply #13 on:** 3 Apr 2010, 06:20 pm »

Quote from: Art_Chicago on 3 Apr 2010, 06:02 pm

Just curious if the RAAL tweeter can be used to build a new pair of HT3?

Hmmmmmmmm I think I see where all this is headed. The only possible constraint on using the RAAL is its greater baffle width. But it will fit on the HT3. I now return you to Jim Salk, who will have to decide whether this whole thing is getting out of hand.

KnowTalent · « **Reply #14 on:** 3 Apr 2010, 06:41 pm »

Quote from: jsalk on 3 Apr 2010, 04:10 pm

That would depend on how it is implemented and I wouldn't want to talk price until we've had a chance to do an analysis. I'm sure it would be at least $500. But one thing we would want to decide is if we would incorporate a switch to modify the tweeter level. The driver has three sets of coils with differing sensitivities. On the SoundScapes, we use a switch to offer flat response, -1 1/2 db and -3db tweeter settings. We could do the same. HOWEVER, that would involve a more complex wiring set-up, more cabinet routing and the cost of the switch and plate.

So the price would depend on whether we went with a fixed tweeter setting or offered the switch. Any thoughts?

- Jim

My vote would be to incorporate the switching ability.
If people are shopping at this price point the additional costs are marginal (imho

)

OgOgilby · « **Reply #15 on:** 3 Apr 2010, 06:49 pm »

Quote from: DMurphy on 3 Apr 2010, 05:50 pm

That would be an upgrade for future RAAL purchasers. The RAAL tweeter couldn't be retrofitted on a current HT2 without replacing the crossover.

OK, now I'm sad...

Hmmm, wait a minute... how about a "RAAL & Crossover Upgrade Package" for existing HT2 TL's? Would that even be possible?

HoosierInOhio · « **Reply #16 on:** 3 Apr 2010, 06:52 pm »

This thread is getting very popular

Mudslide · « **Reply #17 on:** 3 Apr 2010, 07:29 pm »

Quote from: DMurphy on 3 Apr 2010, 06:20 pm

Hmmmmmmmm I think I see where all this is headed. The only possible constraint on using the RAAL is its greater baffle width. But it will fit on the HT3. I now return you to Jim Salk, who will have to decide whether this whole thing is getting out of hand.

Dennis...getting out of hand? You put a beautiful woman in a room full of single guys, would you expect them not to look...or ponder the possibilities?

funkmonkey · « **Reply #18 on:** 4 Apr 2010, 03:01 am »

I'm with everyone else here in wondering about the possibility and added benefit of a RAAL upgrade... could it really be that significant? My HT3s sound fantastic, and until everybody started gushing about the SSs, I hadn't given a second thought towards upgrading anything... Do I want to order a new pair of SoundScapes? kinda, but can't afford them. Do I want to sell my HT3s to finance the upgrade? not really. If there is an option to make my already fantastic sounding speakers sound even better simply by swapping out one ribbon tweeter for another, am I interested? of course I am. Would it be worth the cost of shipping my speakers back to Jim, and then all the way back across the country just to put some shinny new RAALs in place? I seriously doubt it... But, if it was something I could do myself then I am interested.

I have come to realize that no matter what I buy, that a couple of days, months, or occasionally years later there is always something that comes along that is "better" than the top of the line thing that I already own. I do my best to enjoy what I have, and not worry about, or lust for the new hotness too much.

Cheers

Nuance · « **Reply #19 on:** 4 Apr 2010, 03:13 am »

Quote from: funkmonkey on 4 Apr 2010, 03:01 am

I'm with everyone else here in wondering about the possibility and added benefit of a RAAL upgrade... could it really be that significant? My HT3s sound fantastic, and until everybody started gushing about the SSs, I hadn't given a second thought towards upgrading anything... Do I want to order a new pair of SoundScapes? kinda, but can't afford them. Do I want to sell my HT3s to finance the upgrade? not really. If there is an option to make my already fantastic sounding speakers sound even better simply by swapping out one ribbon tweeter for another, am I interested? of course I am. Would it be worth the cost of shipping my speakers back to Jim, and then all the way back across the country just to put some shinny new RAALs in place? I seriously doubt it... But, if it was something I could do myself then I am interested.

I have come to realize that no matter what I buy, that a couple of days, months, or occasionally years later there is always something that comes along that is "better" than the top of the line thing that I already own. I do my best to enjoy what I have, and not worry about, or lust for the new hotness too much.

Cheers

Well said buddy. Well said.