What's the latest on subwoofer arrays?

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alanhuth

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What's the latest on subwoofer arrays?
« on: 15 Jan 2020, 02:59 am »
Hi All, newbie Alan here.  I'm not eligible to search the forum yet, so I apologize if this topic has been covered exhaustively already. 

I'm interested in the latest thinking on subwoofer arrays.  Two products come to mind, the AudioKinesis SWARM and it's cousin DEBRA

http://www.audiokinesis.com/the-swarm-subwoofer-system-1.html
https://jamesromeyn.com/audiokinesis-speaker-models/debra/

They seem to solve a lot of subwoofer issues and they have excellent reviews, from what I've seen. 
Are people buying into the idea that you really should have 4 subwoofers, even for listening to music, if you want more than one person listening?

I have 3 subwoofers and I'm about to embark on a MiniDSP adventure.  What I think I've learned is that you can "get by" with 3 subs if you are willing to do the work, but with four, you can heuristically set them up and be done with it.  Is that true?

JLM

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Re: What's the latest on subwoofer arrays?
« Reply #1 on: 16 Jan 2020, 01:00 pm »
I use 3 subs, not 4 because I'm cheap.  And they're not matching.  Two are PreSonus Temblor T10, 10 inch ported professional subs, 20-200 Hz.  The third is a CSS 10 inch sealed mid-bass sub using XBL2 woofer and SD300 amp, Fs=26 Hz.  The main speakers were commissioned, the driver Fs = 30 Hz, so I have 5 bass sources down to 30 Hz.  The audio room is 8ft x 13ft x 21ft, well insulated, and has (10) GIK 244 panels plus (3) tall randomly filled bookcases on the side walls.  The subs are connected to two sub low voltage outputs on my NAD M10, with both outputs split between the CSS sub and one of the T10 subs.  Subs are located near room corners and in phase. 

The room without subs/absorption has 15 and 18 dB peaks at 53 and 82 Hz as predicted by the primary room dimensions and the speed of sound.  With subs/absorption the peaks have been reduced to 5 dB.  Note that adding Dirac flattened the response but was deemed undesirable (a good audio friend thought it was "to aggressive").  Perhaps it was the impulse or other parameters being adjusted that negatively affected the sound. 

Don't recall how the miniDSP system works.  Dirac is simple; just specify none, one, or two subs (I specified two since I was using both sub outputs); take 9 measurements in/around the listening chair (sofa option made very little difference); and it generates a recommended "curve" which you can manipulate and save. 

The concept is to distribute bass production.  4 subs would theoretically be better than 3, but the effect should be similar.  Again note that the main speakers may or may not contribute the number of bass sources.  Suggest reading Floyd Toole's "Sound Reproduction" 3rd edition to learn how speakers behave in-room.  In-room bass performance has nothing to do with music versus HT or one versus many listeners.  But as HT has to do with "special effects" exaggerated bass that might be desired would be lost if "properly" set up. 

Both referenced products should work well, but hardly fit into what I deem to be affordable systems.  Heard the swarm briefly at Axpona but can't give an opinion.  They were tiny compared to LeJeune's main speakers and what most think of bass versus mid/treble production.  Duke has the swarm subs designed to augment room gain. 

Rusty Jefferson

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Re: What's the latest on subwoofer arrays?
« Reply #2 on: 16 Jan 2020, 03:32 pm »
I recently heard the Swarm demonstrated at Capfest in the Gingko Audio room, and was extremely impressed.  Their room was large and probably didn't have bass issues.  The impressive thing was how much larger the soundstage grew as they added each of the 4 subs into the performance.  After the second one, there was no audible increase in bass level, but the soundstage exploded larger as the 3rd and then 4th sub came in. It was like sitting in row 10 at the opera. It was an excellent demonstration. I believe 1 of the 4 was playing out of phase with the other 3.

I've just recommended it to a friend starting a system up from scratch. He has a large dedicated room and listens almost exclusively to opera and classical music. Those recordings, and a large dedicated room will obviously make this effect most notable.

jtcf

Re: What's the latest on subwoofer arrays?
« Reply #3 on: 16 Jan 2020, 05:10 pm »
I use four subs,two SVS and two Dayton Audio.I also have GIK bass traps in each corner.I just set them by ear,no measurements.I have a terrible room 16x17 virtually square!The subs really do smooth out and balance the entire frequency response.They can't be located by ear in the room and were simple to set up so they blend in seamlessly.The Swarm would have been even simpler to set up,but since I already owned two it was more cost effective to just add two more.