AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Enclosures => Topic started by: twitch54 on 26 Dec 2019, 09:19 pm
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Ok, you guys have given me some good ideas for inexpensive phono-pre's now I'm asking for thoughts on $1000 or less pair of speakers. My thoughts are leaning towards two way bookshelf with stands but I think my sister and brother in-law would consider towers. Elac and Warfdale come to mind, others ?
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Depending on electronics used, KEF LS50s are on sale for less than a grand.
I'm also partial to Elac B6 and F6. Good sounding for not a lot of money.
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in so far as electronics, for starters they will be utilizing a Pioneer Elite receiver, forgot the model number but I believe it to be 75 watts into 8 ohms (2 channels driven). Not sure if it's capable into 4 ohms.
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JBL has their Studio 530’s and 580’s on sale. A pair would be significantly less than $1000.
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Since your on a budget and are limited to $1K why not buy used. It requires the same amount of Homework, but with used you will get much more Bang for Buck ( in my mind ) ...This Forum can certainly help you just as much with used Gear as new.....I would focus on Speakers in the 1 - 5 year old category....Maybe not all will agree with me, but that is my feeling.........Either way good luck
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DCM TFE100 towers on close-out pricing
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Some speakers are better suited than others depending on the music.
The cost of stands might be better spent on floor speakers. :D :D
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Gents, thanks for your reply, I'll converse with my brother in-law over the weekend and see how he feels about buying used. As far as the added stand pricing, understood ... :thumb:
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New Wharfedale Evo models from Music Direct and stands from Monolith.
https://www.musicdirect.com/speakers/Wharfedale-EVO-42-Bookshelf-Speakers
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=24794
Another option is the Ascend Acoustics Sierra-1 or for a little more the Sierra 2
http://ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/SRM1/srm1.html
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New Wharfedale Evo models from Music Direct and stands from Monolith.
https://www.musicdirect.com/speakers/Wharfedale-EVO-42-Bookshelf-Speakers
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=24794
Another option is the Ascend Acoustics Sierra-1 or for a little more the Sierra 2
http://ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/SRM1/srm1.html
Interesting recommendations JackD. Have you had the opportunity to hear the Wharfdales or the Ascend Sierra 2s?
I am a recording engineer and have a client (Colin Tilney) who is a harpsichordist with excellent hearing who, after hearing my studio speakers realizes that his speakers are lacking in tonal accuracy and is now looking for an improvement.
He has a pair of Reference 3A MM de Capos which I have always held suspect in terms of tonality—I think they're plain wrong—and I'm trying to find some affordable alternative for him. The Wharfdale Evo 4.2 looks promising acording to a couple of reviews I saw in Audiokarma on this page:
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/the-wharfedale-evo-4-2-my-new-reference.886852/
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Have owned Ascend Acoustics CBM-170's for nearly 20 years and still love them. Very musical, magical imaging, nice level of detail/bass, an old school kind of sound. Of course the Sierra's would be a big step up. Don't know about the current CBM-170 model.
But as Russell alluded to my low cost favorite is the JBL 305 Mk2, active monitors. Very affordable, room filling, dynamic, good imaging, and musical. An easy speaker for many to be completely satisfied with. Just add a DAC with volume control and you're done.
Monitors are less efficient, offer less bass, and are easier to pack/ship (pluses for a small space or apartment living). Floor standers offer more bass per square inch of floor area and are less tipsy, but can bass overload a small space and can be the wrong height (tweeter not at ear height) for good imaging. Adding a sub to monitors allows for the bass to match the room/taste and be generated in the optimum place.
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Danny Ritchie has a few options for completed speakers.
http://gr-research.com/completedspeakers.aspx
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ELAC, IMHO the most bang for the buck.
charles
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Danny Ritchie has a few options for completed speakers.
http://gr-research.com/completedspeakers.aspx
Oh yes, there isn’t anything that can compare with the CST-1 at $900 or even at $2000.
And they are very capable of playing all types of music equally well. :thumb: :thumb:
I am a recording engineer and have a client (Colin Tilney) who is a harpsichordist with excellent hearing who, after hearing my studio speakers realizes that his speakers are lacking in tonal accuracy and is now looking for an improvement.
He has a pair of Reference 3A MM de Capos which I have always held suspect in terms of tonality—I think they're plain wrong...
I spent a day with the de Capos after a year with the CST-1’s. In addition to being plain wrong, they are ghastly atrocious. :thumbdown: :thumbdown:
I promptly returned them to the seller. Interestingly enough Reference 3a only specifies the range of the FR. They don’t mention the +/- part for a good reason. :lol:
Here’s what Stereophile found... :rules: :shake: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=202518)
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But as Russell alluded to my low cost favorite is the JBL 305 Mk2, active monitors. Very affordable, room filling, dynamic, good imaging, and musical. An easy speaker for many to be completely satisfied with. Just add a DAC with volume control and you're done.
For the record, my current monitors are iLoud MTMs, HEDD Type 20s, Yamaha NS1000s, Eve Audio SC203s (small, for playback when recording on location), a pair of early serial number (lower Fs) AKG K-1000s and Etymotic Research ER4S. I had and sold a pair of JBL 705Ps which sounded almost identical to my MTMs but went much louder and were 4X the price. The MTMs are surprisingly accurate, tonally, and come with a calibration microphone for about $700 USD the pair.
https://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/iloudmtm/
If I were on an extreme budget I would be looking at Kali Audio LP6 or LP8s, designed by the same guy who was the acoustic design engineer on the JBL 7 series, Charles Sprinkle.
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Kali also has a new three way... https://www.kaliaudio.com/independence (https://www.kaliaudio.com/independence)
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I really only have experience with Tekton's,
Eric has a few in that price range..
Lore -- $1,000 pair delivered..
my choice would probably be the Enzo XL for around $1500
or The Perfect Set -- $1800..
There are a few other choices under $1,000..
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This is an interesting coaxial design and right in your price range:
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/ccb-8.html
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The Hsus are interesting indeed. I have a lot of respect for this company, having bought a pair of their original subs (in sonotubes) back in 1994. Flat to 18 Hz and only 6 dB down by 13Hz, or something like that. I haven't been watching them recently, though, so was unaware of these. I'm especially interested if the HF driver is at the back of the woofer pole piece with the pole piece forming the HF waveguide throat, like the Tannoys, because I value headroom and compression drivers give it.
update: I just got this reply to the same question from Hsu (they answered my query in 5 minutes!)
The CCB-8 uses a hollowed out pole piece to form the throat and the
cone is molded to be the flare of the horn.
Audioholics did a review on the CCB-8's where you can view the
response curves, etc.
https://www.audioholics.com/bookshelf-speaker-reviews/ccb-8-bookshelf/measurements
Now I am really interested. Thanks, dB Cooper!
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I think Don Keele had a had in the design of the Hsu CCB-8's. Don't forget about the other Hsu's, the HB-1 Mk2. Under $350/pair. From their webpage:
"It was involving and immersive. It drew you into the music. Yes, more than the Kondo system did ($350,000). There was no tiny sweet spot. Classical, jazz, vocals - everything sounded good, emotional & expressive."
James Darby, Stereomojo.com
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Thank you gents for the many interesting options !
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Now I am really interested. Thanks, dB Cooper!
Glad to help. It would be interesting to hear your impressions if you give in. Reading the review carefully makes me wonder if they might be a little particular in terms of listening location/toe-in but my Allisons forever spoiled me in that regard. Certainly looks like a good value. Coaxials have always been interesting to me.
Twitch, let us know what you decide. Always good to learn of worthwhile offerings at the 'C&C' end of the market. That segment needs to be active for the audio market as a whole to thrive. Has anybody brought up the Andrew Jones-designed Elacs which seem to be making a good name for themselves? There are several options at or below your stated budget.
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Reading the review carefully makes me wonder if they might be a little particular in terms of listening location/toe-in but my Allisons forever spoiled me in that regard. Certainly looks like a good value. Coaxials have always been interesting to me.
And they are interesting to me, too. I have owned Tannoy Ardens and apart from minor flaws, like a slightly ragged top end (they were mid 70s vintage and drivers have improved since then), they had huge assets, like imaging of large-scale sources, like grand pianos and orchestras. Another Tannoy that caught my ear was one of the System 600 studio monitor series—again with the pole piece forming the throat. To my ears this is superior to the easier-to-manufacture tiny tweeter on the end of the pole piece with the cone forming more of a shallow waveguide than a horn mouth. The Tannoys and this Hsu are using the tweeter dome more like a compression driver which spells serious gains in efficiency.
Too bad audioholics didn't get their frequency response curve from the designed reference angle of 15º off axis. Mr Hsu mentions that they were designed this way so they would sound correct when crossing the axes about a foot in front of your head for the usual reasons. I can't give a link to the reference, though.
Another off the wall coax that sounded amazing (and that I owned) was the Presonus Sceptre S8 designed by David Gunness of FUlcrum Acoustics:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9cUeauCH4A I never heard the S6, but word is it's at least as good. Possibly the most precise imaging I've ever heard, even way off axis. Listening to an orchestral recording I had done where the 6 spot mics represented perhaps 5% of the total sound it was painfully obvious that the spots were mono, not stereo pairs. Their mono-ness was immediately apparent. I have never heard that so clearly before or since. DSP accomplished with the use of FIR filters is essential for this design. The S6 and S8 never took off for Presonus, and they were available for very cheap about a year after introduction. Hidden gems.
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This is an interesting coaxial design and right in your price range:
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/ccb-8.html
A friend and audiophile, who has a terrific knack for finding low cost audio gems and is a Hsu fan, turned me onto these. Haven't heard them and don't need more speakers, but if he says they're promising - count on it! But don't know if I could live with those big yellow "eyes" staring at me. :oops:
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There is black option too.
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/ccb-8.html
(http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/prodImage/CCB8/CCB8SBBC-600.jpg)
https://www.audioholics.com/bookshelf-speaker-reviews/ccb-8-bookshelf
Resized and optimized
(http://maty.galeon.com/WP-imagenes/hard/CCB-8-Bookshelf-Speaker-inside-crossover.jpg)
Minimum: $ 369 x2
Complex crossover with a lot of cheap components -> much money to invest vs speakers price if someone wants an audiophile upgrade :(
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Twitch, let us know what you decide.
The decision will be that of my sister and brother in-law, it's their kit, I'm merely helping out with some research for them. They have an inexpensive Elac set up in their family room HT configuration and are quite happy with it, they might just decide to go up the food chain a bit with Elac
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2-ways with front bass-reflex
ELAC Debut B6.2
https://www.pressreader.com/australia/australian-hifi/20190301/283356178455276
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=138550.msg1770963#msg1770963
Coaxial with rear bass-reflex
KEF Q150
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=161371.0
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Thanks maty for the update .........
thoughts .......are the Kef Q350 worth the price over the 150's ?
how about the Elac Uni-Fi BS U5 ?
any love for the Klipsch RP-600M or B & W 606 ?
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Thanks maty for the update .........
thoughts .......are the Kef Q350 worth the price over the 150's
With the Q150s on sale for $299 for a few more days, I'd say no for a few more days.
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And they are interesting to me, too. I have owned Tannoy Ardens and apart from minor flaws, like a slightly ragged top end (they were mid 70s vintage and drivers have improved since then), they had huge assets, like imaging of large-scale sources, like grand pianos and orchestras. Another Tannoy that caught my ear was one of the System 600 studio monitor series—again with the pole piece forming the throat. To my ears this is superior to the easier-to-manufacture tiny tweeter on the end of the pole piece with the cone forming more of a shallow waveguide than a horn mouth. The Tannoys and this Hsu are using the tweeter dome more like a compression driver which spells serious gains in efficiency.
Too bad audioholics didn't get their frequency response curve from the designed reference angle of 15º off axis. Mr Hsu mentions that they were designed this way so they would sound correct when crossing the axes about a foot in front of your head for the usual reasons. I can't give a link to the reference, though.
Another off the wall coax that sounded amazing (and that I owned) was the Presonus Sceptre S8 designed by David Gunness of FUlcrum Acoustics:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9cUeauCH4A I never heard the S6, but word is it's at least as good. Possibly the most precise imaging I've ever heard, even way off axis. Listening to an orchestral recording I had done where the 6 spot mics represented perhaps 5% of the total sound it was painfully obvious that the spots were mono, not stereo pairs. Their mono-ness was immediately apparent. I have never heard that so clearly before or since. DSP accomplished with the use of FIR filters is essential for this design. The S6 and S8 never took off for Presonus, and they were available for very cheap about a year after introduction. Hidden gems.
Thanks for that video, I am a big advocate for compression drivers. The HSU's have had my interest hooked for awhile but I've never run across a pair for resale. I would love to hear them. I know they made a big splash at the shows they were introduced in.
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Thanks maty for the update .........
thoughts .......are the Kef Q350 worth the price over the 150's ?
how about the Elac Uni-Fi BS U5 ?
any love for the Klipsch RP-600M or B & W 606 ?
Only the KEf 5.25" coaxials have the magic. KEF Q300 and probably Q350, both with 6.5" coaxial, sound like traditional 2-ways.
Forgive the ELAC Uni-Fi U5.
https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1802:nrc-measurements-elac-unifi-slim-fsu5-loudspeakers&catid=77:loudspeaker-measurements&Itemid=153
(https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/images/stories/loudspeakermeasurements/elac_unifi_slim_fsu5/thd_90db.gif)
http://noaudiophile.com/ELAC_UB5/
http://noaudiophile.com/ELAC_UB5_Listening_Impressions/
...The ELAC UB5 speakers are technical marvels, that Jones and the team at ELAC should be proud of, but will perform well as long as you don't turn them up too much
About Klipsch RP-600M, maybe with D. Richie improvements: https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=166535.0
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B&W 606
https://www.avhub.com.au/product-reviews/hi-fi/bw-606-loudspeakers-review-test-517755
(https://i.nextmedia.com.au/Utils/ImageResizer.ashx?n=https%3a%2f%2fi.nextmedia.com.au%2fReviews%2fBWGraph6.jpg&c=0)
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https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/video-speaker-measurements-by-danny-richie.8840/
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B&W 606
https://www.avhub.com.au/product-reviews/hi-fi/bw-606-loudspeakers-review-test-517755
Arrrgh! Thanks for this link, maty.
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Stretch the budget $300 and look at the Golden Ear Triton Two that just
came up for sale here.
Don
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Well I just ordered my Triangle Titus EZ, I'll let you know my opinion once it arrives
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$1000 for speakers is outside the Cheap & Cheerful Guidelines (https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=71233.0), so moving this to Enclosures.