[kwhitman]

I've been lurking here for some time and finally decided it was time to try my hand at building a pair of speakers.  My daughter recently graduated college and has moved into her own place and currently doesn't have a stereo.  She loves her music so I decided she would be my first victim  

I'm new to speaker building so I have a few first time build questions.  I have completed the X-LS boxes and glued in the braces.  All that remains is applying the No-Rez, mount the crossover, and glue on the face plate.  My question is do I mount the crossover first then place No-rez around it or do I install the No-rez and mount the crossover on top with risers?  I guess I should also ask where most mount the crossover.  I would assume the crossover is mounted to the base of the speaker?

Also do I install the No-rez all the way to the front baffle?  I have seen some keep it back an inch from the front baffle????? 

Thanks in advance and sorry for such basic questions.  I have enjoyed the numerous builds shown on this site.

I have taken several pictures along the way so I can post some build pictures but mine are not anything compared to some of the very professional builds shown on this site.

Kris

[Danny Richie]

I got your e-mail and answered these questions there.

Maybe some of you guys can help him out further by posting your X-LS build pics.

[mlundy57]

Here's a link to my X-LS & X-CS Encore build thread.  http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=117653.0

I put the crossover on the bottom of the speakers and did not have any NoRez under it. Since then I do put NoRez under the crossover board but I remove the foam and leaving the damping material from where the board is going to go.

I now do the same thing on the sides, top and bottom in relation to the front baffle. I cut the piece of NoRez to fit all the way up to the front baffle then I remove a strip of foam 1 1/2" wide. This puts the damping layer all the way up to the front baffle but still gives the woofers the clearance they need.

Ignore the fact that my port tubes and crossover boards look different than yours. I did my build a little differently.

Mike

[Captainhemo]

I put the crossover on the bottom of the speakers and did not have any NoRez under it. Since then I do put NoRez under the crossover board but I remove the foam and leaving the damping material from where the board is going to go.

I now do the same thing on the sides, top and bottom in relation to the front baffle. I cut the piece of NoRez to fit all the way up to the front baffle then I remove a strip of foam 1 1/2" wide. This puts the damping layer all the way up to the front baffle but still gives the woofers the clearance they need.

Mike

I think if you only bough a single sheet of no rez, you will be a little short to put the the damping material under the c/o's. If you've got the  extra, I'd do what Mike suggests, it can't hurt.  I was short to do this so I used a piece of vinyl floor on the bottom plate before  scrwing down the c/o.

I have always run  the no rez right up to the baffle then cut back  betwen 1 and 1.5"  of the foam leaving only the damping material and clearence for the woofer.  You can install the no rez right down to the bottom plate, the c/o board will slide  in between although it does make installing the rear screws a little tougher.

I just posted  this over in "Chops" X Statik upgrade thread, I'd recommend  you pick up a bag of acusti stuf from either Parts Express or Amazon. Fluff up  about 1.5 oz  right before you install the woofer and lightly  cover the  entire rear wall, just be sure you don't obscure the port in  any way. It really does work better than  Poly Fill.... I have directly compared them.

By all means , post your pics...  we all love pics

jay

[kwhitman]

I really appreciate all the responses.  Danny sent me an email answering my main questions but I appreciate the build tips.  I made my cabinets from 3/4" MDF and utilized biscuits for strength and alignment.  Like you guys suggested I made the front and rear panels slightly proud so I could use a flush bit to get that tight fit.  Very little sanding was necessary.  I used my straight edge to ensure the cabinet sides are all perfectly flat.  I mounted the crossover in the bottom of the cabinet as suggested and now need to solder the wires to the circuit board.  I tried tonight but my pencil soldering iron was not hot enough to get a good joint so I'll have to break out the larger gun.  I guess I was expecting stranded wire instead of solid wire.  I will take a few pics on the soldering once I find my larger iron.  I can also show the mounting of the crossover and the No-Rez install in a day or so.  Till then I appreciate the suggestions and here are a few of my first attempts on the cabinets. 

A few build pics:









Kris

[kwhitman]

I've been told you can never have enough clamps   I am sorry for the messy shop but I figured you guys wouldn't mind.  The shop is still in the build stage itself but speakers had to get done!.  I added a few clamp up pics and a quick mock up with the baffles set in place.  These are all before the braces were added and run thru the flush trim bit.  I did this for self motivation   Feel free to add comments....I am new to this type of thing so advice is needed and appreciated.

Kris

[Captainhemo]

They're looking great  man   
I wish I had so many clamps , I always find my self saying " I need one more"

Do you know how you are finishing them ? I don't know how improtant it actually is, but if it goes with your plans,  a .5" radius roundover on the vertical edges of the front baffle should help  the response
Look foreard to seeing  more  !

jay

[mlundy57]

I've been told you can never have enough clamps   I am sorry for the messy shop but I figured you guys wouldn't mind.  The shop is still in the build stage itself but speakers had to get done!.  I added a few clamp up pics and a quick mock up with the baffles set in place.  These are all before the braces were added and run thru the flush trim bit.  I did this for self motivation   Feel free to add comments....I am new to this type of thing so advice is needed and appreciated.

Kris

Messy shop?? Half the time I can't walk through mine without tripping over something, not to mention laying something down then later on not being able to find it because I laid something else on top of it.

Nope, never can have too many clamps. And no matter how many you have, you always find yourself saying, dang I need one more of those ....

I find soldering everything to the board, including the leads to the drivers and binding posts, before installing the board in the cabinet a lot easier than trying to get into a tight space to solder a connection.

Looking good

Mike

[bdp24]

I'd recognize those Harbor Freight clamps anywhere! The blue parts are made of pot metal, and I've had a couple just crumble, but keep the receipt and they'll replace them if it's within 90 days. Excellent work and enclosures, Kris!

[rockdrummer]

Are you kidding?   Great work.  That looks quite professional to me.

I built the exact same speakers for my brother.  They are the best bang for your buck in all of audio. 

Nice job and thanks for posting. 

Ben

[Danny Richie]

Yeah, looks good, and nice shop too.

[lacro]

Nice work! Looks like your well on your way Your daughter is going to like those speakers. One tool that I find indispensable is a long board sander (home made) Your straight edge is a good idea to make sure the panels are perfectly level, but the long board sander will assure they are. A couple of swipes across the panel, and you will immediately see any low spots.

Here's the one I used on my Encore build:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=108371.120

[kwhitman]

Thanks for the encouragement.  The finish that is planned is oak veneer with a black stain.  I love the look of these boxes with a round over so I may cut a 3/8"x 3/8" slot off the perimeter of the face and glue in solid oak that I can later round over.  I saw this done by Peter J here on AudioCircle.  He is very talented and I love to follow his builds.  I have attached a model picture of the desired finish and I "borrowed" a picture from Peter J to show the process of the solid insert. 

I usually work with solid lumber so I am a little nervous about veneering these cabinets.  I have no experience with Veneering so I am debating whether to buy a paper backed veneer or cut my own from solid oak.  Either way I am unsure what glue and technique to use.  I have read numerous threads on the subject and now I am really confused   Some say Titebond II on both substrate and veneer...let it dry then attach with an iron.  Others swear by contact cement.  Others say use cold press glue (drys hard they say) and either vacuum bag or clamp till dry.  Others say nothing works but urea formaldehyde (Unibond 800).  Boy they sure know how to confuse a guy. 

I am open to your experiences and results. 

Kris

[kwhitman]

Thanks Lacro.  That long board for sanding looks like the ticket.  I have never seen one like that.  That would show the highs and lows right away.  Great idea!!

Kris

[jeffh]

Kris,
That is my black X-LS build.  I used paper backed red oak veneer that I had found on craigslist for a super cheap price.  I applied the paper backed veneer with contact cement, which I believe is the generally accepted method for paper backed veneer. To finished, I used Minwax PolyShades Satin Classic Black.  It turned out great and still looks good today.  A very durable finish and it is super easy to apply.  FYI, I also built them for my daughter.

Your speakers are  looking great! The best part is listening to them.  They are an incredible value.

Jeff

[kwhitman]

That is awesome Jeffh!   My daughter immediately liked the look of the black veneer.  Thanks for the tip on applying the veneer and the color of the finish.  I will look at some paper backed veneer and some contact cement.  I see some people use a gel contact cement (Dap I think)....any suggestions on gel vs liquid?  Your speakers looks great!

Kris

[Captainhemo]

Not a big fan of  contact cement myself simply because I like having the ability to move or reposition  the veneer before I lock it in place. . Contact cement seems to be awfully "grabby" and can be more difficutl  to work with. If you're good at it, I'm sure it is a decent solution.

Many peopole like the Heatlock glue but I couldn't find it up here in Canada. I ened up using just a regualr PVA, applied it to both the cabinet surafce and the 10mil paper backed veneer. I let it dry thoroughly before aligning it on the cabinet and  ironing it on. The heat from the iron re-activates teh PVA  and locks the veneer in place. I was easily able to do the  sides and front baffle in one piece without  any issues of air bubbles by starting at one rear edge and just slowly working my around the cabinet. I know what contact cement can be like  and feel I wouldn't have had the same results if I had gone that route.

When I applied the glue, I just used a samll 3" foam roller to eenly coat both surfaces. there has been  no issues  with the veneer lifting at all.  An old coton t-shirt works great between the iron face and the veneer.

Next time I'll actually  match my veneer   
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=130306.0

There is some great how-to videos over at Oakwood Veneer
http://www.oakwoodveneer.com/video.html
jay

[mlundy57]

I prefer to use veneer with the 22.2mil bubble free backer from Qakwood. I bends around the rounded over edges smoother and easier than the 10mil paper backed veneer. Also, minor imperfections in the cabinet don't telegraph through the 22.2mil backer.

Like Jay, if I have rounded over the long edges of the front baffle I wrap the veneer around the sides and front in one piece. The back, top and bottom are three separate pieces. If you are planning on wrapping the veneer around edges like this, then the iron on method is a good way to go. I use the Heat Lock glue since it is formulated for this purpose.

The order of application I use is to apply the back first, then wrap the side-front-side, then do the top and bottom (it doesn't matter which one is done first). The reason for putting the back on first is that when you apply the wrap around piece, the seam is not visible from the sides. The reason for putting the top and bottom on last is that when you wrap the veneer around the edges there might be some small gaps. If you try to force the veneer down you will end up with dimples instead of a smooth radius. If you do end up with a small gap it can be easily filled. Then when you apply the top and bottom the repair is covered up and everything looks good. It you put the top and bottom on before you wrap the sides that small gap will show.

Here is a link to my N3TL build thread. Scroll down to post #47

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=120896.40

Here is a link to info about the heat lock glue 

http://www.veneersupplies.com/products/Better-Bond-Heat-Lock-Veneer-Glue.html

And here is one to a bunch if information on veneering, topics are in the left hand side bar

http://www.joewoodworker.com/

Whichever way you go, practice on some scrap first.

Mike

[Keithh]

Heat-Lock is definitely the best way to go and the easiest. It works with both raw and paper packed veneer. I used to use paper backed veneer but now use raw veneer.
It is really easy to find beautiful pieces of raw veneer to fit whatever speaker you are building. And you get to choose your veneer instead of getting a mystery
sheet of paper backed veneer. Raw veneer is also thicker so it easier to work with.
Contact cements are not what they used to be. Most of the water based ones are terrible. Titan DX is an exception and is available from Veneer Supplies too.
DAP contact cement in the red can is pretty good if you can still find it. Stay away from the blue and green cans of DAP.
Iron on with Titebond II works but has a high failure rate 2-3 years down the road so that is up to you if you want to take the chance.
I really don't see any reason to use anything else than Heat-Lock unless you can't get it. It is just too easy to work with.

[mlundy57]

Heat-Lock is definitely the best way to go and the easiest. It works with both raw and paper packed veneer. I used to use paper backed veneer but now use raw veneer.
It is really easy to find beautiful pieces of raw veneer to fit whatever speaker you are building. And you get to choose your veneer instead of getting a mystery
sheet of paper backed veneer. Raw veneer is also thicker so it easier to work with.
Contact cements are not what they used to be. Most of the water based ones are terrible. Titan DX is an exception and is available from Veneer Supplies too.
DAP contact cement in the red can is pretty good if you can still find it. Stay away from the blue and green cans of DAP.
Iron on with Titebond II works but has a high failure rate 2-3 years down the road so that is up to you if you want to take the chance.
I really don't see any reason to use anything else than Heat-Lock unless you can't get it. It is just too easy to work with.

How do you keep the seams tight when using heat lock/iron on method with raw wood veneer?  No matter how tight I have the seam when I iron it down, once the wood cools it shrinks and I end up with a slight crack. The crack is not very big but big enough for the seam to show.