AudioCircle
The Commercial Zone => Audio Shows and Events => Rocky Mountain Audio Fest => Topic started by: Pez on 13 Oct 2012, 03:32 pm
-
Coming soon.... :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
-
No breakfast pics?
-
I don't know about you, but seeing Pez's breakfast once in my lifetime is enough!
-
Breakfast? Heck, it's almost lunch time.
What are these slackers doing?
-
Playback Designs
Puget Sound Studios
ATR Services, Inc.
Evolution Acoustics
Wave Kinetics
B.M.C. Audio
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/0a186be52cf15504d1f3ac587b4b574d.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/44328b6b6a092c0effcdd6907a5d164d.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/4d0086fb778b35b5dea23c0d92657b9b.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/88c4cb3e53fe0d88316387fda7e5a82d.jpg)
No cd olayer in this room running reel to reel. Very nice mellow sound and incredibly laid back. Excellent overall tonal balance and nothing jumps out as offensive in the least. I am way outside of the sweets pot but I am still thoroughly nipple joking of what I'm hearing. Though they have no room treatment the sound is still rather good. Of course we are not listening at ear bleeding levels. The speakers are appropriately sized for this room.
Tyson Notes[/u]
General Room Notes - First room of the 2nd day. These are pretty sweet looking speakers! Remind me quite a bit of the Sonus Faber styling, so…sexy. But they have ceramic (metal?) drivers. I almost always hate speakers with metal drivers. LIstening to them from the reel to reel and they actually sound pretty good and I'm not running from the room screaming. If that's not a ringing endorsement, I don't know what is! Speaking of ringing, these guys actually seem to not suffer from that particular problem too much. I'm guessing that the small diameter of the driver helps with that.
Oh, listenening to Shelby Lynn now instead of the previous swamp rock male vocals. These things are hyper detailed and super transparent, one of the most transparent I've heard outside of stats. But they suffer from a common problem for this type of speaker - too much power response in the presence region. When she leans in hard on the vocals, it overloads the room and becomes hard/brittle and now, indeed, I am running out of the room. Maybe Pez will let me borrow his earplugs....
-
Coincident Speaker Technology
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/0a63f8a5f70829a2250f9c3bbc01ea43.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/d49ac3c6d0955f455d354f33fddc2537.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/ea2ce0ec75e064eadcdc50a6a87cf51a.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/7413aba55ecb4d761d7980bb00f34099.jpg)
First impressions easy going sound we are now putting our stuff on. Bach cello (yes I realize I've been saying violin. Oops) is very warm and full bodied. Mahlers quieter passages sort of get lost a bit, but come back very full. For a ribbon speaker the nuance isn't completely there. That said what is there is very pleasant and inviting. Good dynamic focus and superb control in the big passages. Ani guitar sounds very good. This room definitely has the signature tube sound. From the sweet spot very good imaging and great soundstage. BIG sound from here! I still feel there is a certain romanticizing of the detail here which isn't a bad thing necessarily. Yorke has great head bobbing factor! Warm warm warm!!! Not afraid to be dynamic and I am actually pretty impressed at the slightly louder listening that the room isn't screwing up the sound much. This is a great setup if you just want to listen but don't necessarily want that 'I'm there' feeling. I give this room very good marks.
Tyson Notes[/u]
General Room Notes - "Can I play a single track of music?". "We don't play that right now. No." Really? OK, that's fine, I won't totally crap on your room because you have a CD player right there and won't let me play a single track?
Allright, I'm changing my tune - people left and the guy turned out to be really cool, so I'm starting with the serious evaluation now.
Mahler - Not the best cello's and bass I've heard, but probably the best wind instruments I've heard at this show. Scales very well on the bass drum thrashing. Soundstage is a bit narrow, but might be my sitting position.
Bach - Bach is pretty nice sounding! I remember this room from last year and it was screechy. This year they must have made some changes because it sounds a lot better, quite good actually.
Ani DiFranco - Upper end of the guitar sounds nice and twangy. Good body on the lower end without overloading the room. That's a hard trick to pull off, not many rooms have. Her voice sounds just like it should. Not quite as nakedly bare as in other rooms, but also not overly sibilant like it is so many rooms.
Thom Yorke - I think these speakers are too big for the room. The bass overloads a bit on this track. I think in a bigger room these speakers would breath better and really be top notch.
-
PRECISION TRANSDUCER ENGINEERING
Antelope Audio
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/52e02aa3237987857bd57ad0ee2e7d59.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/8e56b0bab61f5310f896cf249f2b9c1a.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/e987e7a7255bf6df1c252b2717c7295d.jpg)
Bach cello very sweet but lacking in definition. Mahler is pretty bold and decently dynamic. Certainly not the most I've heard but pretty damn good overall. For a solid state system this sounds very smooth overall. On Ani the system the imaging is very convincing. I'm really liking the intimacy of the sound with this setup. Yorke bass portion is solid baby! Big big imaging here I really like it, but the room is definitely being overloaded here. Another good setup IMO probably on the upper end of the bell curve, but no curve wrecking here.
Tyson Notes[/u]
Mahler - Sound a bit distant with the volume down a bit, but pick up nicely with the volume goosed a bit. A bit tubby in the bass from where I'm sitting. Does very well on the big bass drum. Seems like every system is kicking with this part of the track this year.
Bach - Nice, laid back, sweet. Love the easy musical sound of the scanspeak softdome tweeters on this track.
Ani DiFranco - I figured this track would be overly soft, but not so. Sounds good. Too much sibilance in her vocals though. Not bad, noticable, but might be livable long term.
Thom Yorke - A bit one-notey and thumpy in the bass. I think these speakers are actually tuned with a midbass hump. Either that or they are too big for this very, very tiny room. Most likely the latter.
General Room Notes - These are BIG bookshelf speakers. I actually built a pair of DIY tower speakers a while back using these exact same drivers. I have to admit, these guys have done a better job than I did back then. Overall a good, but not great room.
-
:D WOW,,,, such glorious EYE CANDY ..... Good Lord :D Some of the gear you guys have show even so far sounds good just looking at it ! :D
-
Not to get too nit-picky. But can we get the name of the Thom Yorke track you are playing? I keep looking back through the Day 1 thread but cant find the title.
Just curious really - but it might help in understanding some of your observations.
Edit: Thanks for the edit on the day 1 thread! :thumb:
-
Anybody seen or heard rumors of any magico speaker being used in any room? I know they don't have their own room. Many thanks want to hear the s5.
-
Audioarts, Inc.
ZELLATON GmbH
Nagra - Audio Technology Switzerland
HOLBORNE swiss audio instruments
METRONOME TECHNOLOGIE
SCHOPPER AG
Swissonor.ch
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/250919ba2d78e33ae818928200f2ef13.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/28bc3a03e31cf5363291079c1eff9f6d.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/7c0c616f850e2d930b701da1acc2a54a.jpg)
Vinyl only setup. Crazy design with no tweeter???? Wow they do not sound like they are missing anything up top at all! Incredible soundstage and imaging. They project well behind themselves. Spot on and very convincing. Intimate and IMO startlingly real. Good god these things are the knock down the walls imaging sound staging speakers you read about but never actually hear. If your are an imaging and sound staging freak hear me know, these are the speakers for you most definitely. This room blows every preconception I have away. A widerange driver that sounds incredible and never sounds like its missing anything up top. There is very little coloration which I normally associate with a wide bandwidth.
Tyson Notes[/u]
General Room Notes - Single driver speaker, with a "helper" woofer, no tweeter and metal drivers? A recipe for DISASTER! Just about every single element that I hate. Vinyl only, so no listening to our CD. But the acapella male vocal group doing Beatles covers sounds incredibly good! WHAT??? By all reason and logic I should hate this room. But I'm really digging it on this track.
OK, now the real acid test - female vocals. He's putting it on now. I'm sure it will drive me out of the room.....
Nana Mouskouri doing Strawberry Hill, I'm not running out! While I wouldn't exactly call it "seductive", it is still beautiful. Dammit, I hate when my preconceptions get shattered like this. Next thing I know we'll be in full on Bizzarro world and Superman is evil....Speaking for this world, I'm saying this room is best sound at show, beating out the Avatar Acoustics room (and believe me, that bar was pretty freaking high).
-
Price?
I am sure that they are giving away the speakers for a song(& maybe your first born child :lol:).
Bob
-
Channel D Computer Audio
Lynx Studio Technology
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/dc4550a37768bf4a51e868de0fa51e82.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/ffd5ba52c24232b763e1610cc327dc3c.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/821cfb6376d38b1435196ec8f4612241.jpg)
Bach cello ahhhh so warm and confident. Some grit, not a lot but some. Mahler honestly a little weak starting. Not nearly as dynamic as I know this piece should be. Not really cutting it here on the Mahler at all. I find myself just wanting more and really not getting the dynamics this piece demands. What is there is good, in that it is totally good and soulful. Ani sounds very recorded... I don't know what I mean by that exactly but it's not sounding like a shadow of the era thing, rather it sounds like a recording. Imaging is ok, but just ok. I think the speakers are too far apart and too close. Thom Yorke sounds pretty good and definitely contrasts positively to everything we've listen to in this system thus far. That said I'm just not feelin it. I don't think this is the kind of setup that is memorable in any way. I'd have to say toward the bottom of the bell curve.
Tyson Notes[/u]
Mahler - Cellos and basses are pretty lightweight, but not too surprising given the small drivers being used. Clarinetts and hurns are a bit thin and a bit light sounding. Gritty. Not horrible but definitely a consistent sound signature. With the dual active subs, the bass explodes nicely.
Bach - Violin is loud and clear, very detailed. But a bit grainy and not exactly harsh, but not exactly smooth either. Has bite. Soundstage is also shifted to the right a bit. Another hookup problem? Maybe....
Ani DiFranco - Guitar is pretty good! Her voice sounds good in the middle and lower registers, but too much sssssssss. |
Thom Yorke - Wow, this track sounds really good! But then again, it's Jason's crappy music, so I'm not surprised it sounds good on systems I otherwise dislike.
General Room Notes - Beautiful looking speakers, little gems. Man, every year I think "this is the year I'm going to really like the Joseph Audio room. And every year (so far) I'm disappointed. Don't get me wrong, it's not a train wreck of a room or anything, and in absolute terms it sounds good. But there are definitely some weaknesses, and those are in areas that are very important to me. I'm certain others can/will/do feel differently.
-
CSTech ok if you can deal with the poser
-
Sumiko
WADIA
Audio Research Corporation
Pro-Ject Audio Systems
REL Acoustics
Sonus Faber
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/41cc26bcf850951bd3e1a899452d9f71.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/c647f4224b7faa2cffa7b7671acc291f.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/39a3f0f050b69e6860485fa616986cd8.jpg)
Oh boy Jeff Buckley on vinyl!!!! Hope the system can live up to my expectations on this. Playing hallelujah. warm sounding. I love this song haha. Overall very soothing but a little spitty up top. A little thin sounding despite the warmth. A bit dynamically compressed. Good imaging, but not surreal. A bit shallow on depth but pretty good overall. I think these are pretty good despite the negative things I'm saying. They're just good enough that they make me want more. Basically just short of succeeding to touch my soul.
Tyson Notes[/u]
General Room Notes - No CD player in this room, so no listening to the Bach or Mahler, etc.. But listening to Vinyl, so that's cool. These are the new Sonus Faber's, which kind of look like mean robots, based on their upswept triangular shape. Putting on Jeff Buckley, yes! Hey, what can I say, Sonus Faber kicks but every year and they are doing so again with the new model. Not quite as relaxed/seductive as last year, but still on the warm side of neutral. The overall sound has moved a bit more toward the center. Being more in the center is a good thing. But I am sure some people will criticize it for not "standing for somethin'". Hey, IMO being in the center is a good thing.
-
Bob Carver LLC
Analysis Plus
Purity Audio
AMR
Sunfire (Sub)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/564a9cab59a7e330b2c4b016cfd1f2ae.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/d69a4b796e5e3b3faf9a93ce68e8ac4b.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/a951fb5ebfd8a749d6e197049c4de4cc.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/2893ca1dd76d749ab511b664f7bc1db5.jpg)
Good god how did they even get these flagpoles in here!? So far not bad. I am in a bad chair, but I'm not having any issue listening from here. There's a bit too much air that makes vocalists sound a little too breathy. From the sweet slot the soundstage and imaging are pretty gigantic. Pinched up sound for sure. They a however constrained to the room ie no depth IMO. Modest bass... Bass should never be modest, sorry this is a definite shortcoming of these speakers. Yet another example of having a speaker that is not appropriate to the room size. If you want to go big like these speakers you really need to showcase them in a big room, not the closet we are in. Demo music in this room is very boring... Yet another issue IMO. Overall this setup wants to be great, it just isn't quite there in this listening space which lacks size and treatment.
Tyson Notes[/u]
Mahler -
Bach -
Ani DiFranco -
Thom Yorke -
General Room Notes - Tall speakers!! And line sources!!!! I love LS speakers, room looks very promising. Purity and AMR gear, I am expecting great things here. Amazing, with all those tweeters pointing right at us, at close range, there's no excessive sibilance. That's a neat trick - I've heard these tweeters in multiple speakers and they always were shouty, but not here. Very nice! Wow, really tall soundstage, Dave Matthews is literally above me, on stage. I haven't looked up this much to someone since Biden spanked Ryan.
Oh way, sitting off to one side now (switched seats with Jason) - oh, THERE's the sibilance and harshness I"m used to. Very interesting - if you listen on axis or nearly on axis with these tweeters, they are harsh. But if you sit nearfiled with the tweeters firing straight forward, maybe at a 45 degree equilateral triangle, they sound very good. One other thing - NO ROOM TREATMENT. Trust me guys, your speakers will sound MUCH better if you treat these incredibly poor (and tiny) rooms.
-
Price?
I am sure that they are giving away the speakers for a song(& maybe your first born child :lol:).
Bob
Tyson Responding - I have no clue. I don't ask and they don't tell. Honestly I do not care in any way, shape, or form. I walk in the room, zero preconceptions around price or value or "It's gotta sound good because it's $150k", or some stupid crap like that. NO, we sit down, we play music, it sounds good or it doesn't. If it sounds good, it MIGHT be worth whatever price they are asking for it. If it sounds bad, then it's not worth it, not matter how expensive, or how cheap it might happen to be.
-
HDtracks.com
YG Acoustics
MSB Amps
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/f166717382abb50078c4d16663f60dc6.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/b1d48db2252520121a80e04223697902.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/ec6263e2061923e14593989110105dad.jpg)
This system in the Bach sounds very prim and proper. Does nothing wrong, makes no errors forced or otherwise, but fails to impress. Imaging on the Mahler is pretty darn great. Deep wide etc. the Mahler piece has many flare ups with the horns and this setup seems to exaggerate them a bit. Excellent dynamically speaking but lacks emotion which is odd because I've hear these speakers emote like crazy. The Ani piece finally is showing some emotion, but not enough. Do love that imaging though! Thom Yorke is dynamically accurate and has decent bottom end. I really like this track on this setup it's doing Amy things very very well. This is a very mixed result for me. I think the basic issue is this setup isn't sweet sounding. But simultaneously it does most other things well.
Tyson Notes[/u]
Mahler - Nice soundstage on the Mahler. Cellos and basses sound nice and weighty, but not as detailed as on other speakers. A bit slow/plodding sounding on the leadup march to the big cresendo. Horns are too brassy and thin. Hits the bass drum very well though. Impact and power!
Bach - Feels a bit unemotional, more like a technical exercise some random violinist happens to be practicing. Too bright and hurts my ears.
Ani DiFranco - Brutal sibilance. Ouch. Sorry this is just killing me here. I am temted to just cut my losses and leave. I'm toughing it out in the name of journalistic professionalism. Oh wait, I'm neither a jounalist, or a professional!
Thom Yorke - OK, I'm sticking it out because Jason wants to hear his stupid track :P
General Room Notes - Man, last year the YG rooms were all so good (most improved RMAF 2011, IMO), but they are back to being pretty meh this year. But, there's 2 more YG Acoustic rooms to go, so they have a chance to redeem themselves. It's hard to believe that something can perform so badly after having just killed it previously. But it happens, just ask Barack.
-
Tyson Responding - I have no clue. I don't ask and they don't tell. Honestly I do not care in any way, shape, or form. I walk in the room, zero preconceptions around price or value or "It's gotta sound good because it's $150k", or some stupid crap like that. NO, we sit down, we play music, it sounds good or it doesn't. If it sounds good, it MIGHT be worth whatever price they are asking for it. If it sounds bad, then it's not worth it, not matter how expensive, or how cheap it might happen to be.
Tyson/Pez,
You two are doing a great job! However, I personally wouldn't make those kinds of buyer priorities based on show sonics. Those rooms suck (literally and figuratively). And yes, it would be fun to know what your "best room so far" would cost, but then I'm sure some of the presentation plaudits go to the electronics too. I miss being there (my streak ended/stopped at a mere five), but this helps. :)
-
Which room are you headed to next I will catch up with you there.
Jared
-
Alfred & Partners
ESTELON
Vitus Audio
Silver Circle Audio
Kubala•Sosna Research
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/99e5035041af57b9ded5e43c13f9e862.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/9f8bd01af3c0295f6ad286ddf0344a4d.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/bd5ba2d68cda3cd28921943168a3e3e5.jpg)
On the Bach piece these speakers were every bit as sweet and sorrowful as the best of the heap. Honestly this seems every bit as amazing as last year. On the Mahler the dynamics are very nice in the softer passages and robust in the larger passages. Ani... Wow loving the guitar every complexity is present and beautiful raw emotion. Unafraid and far from polite which is a great thing. They do what they should do without demurring one bit. Soundstage and imaging is among the best we hav eh ears, but not quite as good as the wide bands we heard. Thom Yorke is sounding gorgeous. Potent and great. A little room overhang, but the positive qualities of the speakers mask such issues. Warm! This is again among the very best of this show hands down.
Tyson Notes[/u]
Bach - Ah, ethereal bliss. Living up to last year's performance already. Lovely, just lovely.
Mahler - Cellos and basses are waaaaay back in the soundstage, awesome. I'm not a soundstage guy, but I know Jason must be having a silent orgasm next to me right about now. Brass has the right bite, and still sounds full and weighty. Bass drum sounds HUGE. Like, not loud, but BIG. Physically big. Only downside is the pace is sort of slow and stately.
Ani DiFranco - Ani, Ani, Ani, how I love thee.... damn that is some naked, raw emotion coming through. These are not laid back speakers, there is definite sibilance but it's more of a glass-like clarity than nails on a chalkboard. Very nice.
Thom Yorke - A touch bass heavy in this room. Not boomy per se, just a bit too loud. A touch slower sounding that I"m used to.
General Room Notes - Last year was a shock because I generally really, really dislike ceramic driver based speakers. But Estelon whippersnapped me and undercut my expectations. They are very good again this year. Bass I think it not as good as it was last year, and they are not as razor sharp dynamic, but the shocking thing to me how emotional they are compared to most ceramic based speakers.
-
GTT Audio & Video
YG Acoustics
Kubala•Sosna Research
Tenor Inc.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/455a29b1cec70cc3ebcd0d94c764a291.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/f34819f2b4711d0b9d1bddc839f5583f.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/7dbfee75161819614364084a636fa891.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/e38b3b42597b0f231925bf71acd87d05.jpg)
ROOOOXANNNEE!!!!! This system sounds ultra orthodox hi end. Just like you'd expect a hi end system to sound like. In cant find anything wrong with it, but I'm not enthused. From the sweet spot this system is definitely way better. More emotion more feeling more depth. This is the YG I remember from last year. Not brimming with detail or emotion, but it is pretty good overall.
Tyson Notes[/u]
General Room Notes - Same speakers, different room, WAY better sound overall. Still a bit to much power in the presence region. They do a lot right in this room, sounding very open and dynamic. But that tweeter is just has a bit too much power response. Not "bright" or "sibilant", but very, very present, and sort of "overloads" my ears when female vocals lean hard into the mic. And if you can't enjoy women leaning into the mic, life really isn't worth living, is it?
-
It's hard to believe that something can perform so badly after having just killed it previously.
That's because it's not just the speakers, it's the system, particularly the source.
This is the biggest problem at shows. Everyone seems to believe that if a room sounds good, it's because of the speakers. With modern high-end speakers, it's getting to be less the case and more a result of good electronics and cabling. I have used a wide range of speakers at shows and achieved similar results.
There are of course bad speakers out there, but they tend to be the exception.
Steve N.
-
Tyson/Pez,
You two are doing a great job! However, I personally wouldn't make those kinds of buyer priorities based on show sonics. Those rooms suck (literally and figuratively). And yes, it would be fun to know what your "best room so far" would cost, but then I'm sure some of the presentation plaudits go to the electronics too. I miss being there (my streak ended/stopped at a mere five), but this helps. :)
Tyson - Agreed. As you understand, until you've actually been to a show and tried to make sense of the chaos, you can't really appreciate how insane this whole thing is. All I (and Pez) can do is report what we hear as a snapshot on that day and report what we here. If the room is bad, doesn't mean the gear is bad, but on the other hand, it doesn't exactly inspire tons of confidence. One thing I really like about RMAF is that the playing field is absolutely level. All the rooms are pretty poor. Some vendors get good sound, others do not. And that's on them.
-
Von Schweikert Audio
Jolida, Inc.
UNITED HOME AUDIO
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/deeab1f39289fed4eaf4acfe9456cf51.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/f63aed327d055031968f29b7aaa7614a.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/f7f4cf60793dc1b5aab5829db72d8217.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/63e5942834ccf5a4247a5a4695d4994d.jpg)
R2R in this room. The Von's image very well. Pretty deep, they try to be intimate, but are too thin sounding to completely accomplish it. Ip they do some things well but overall they just aren't quite ready for prime time. Lack refinement, edgy and not good enough for my tastes.
Tyson Notes[/u]
General Room Notes - Listening to Ella and Louis on Reel to Reel. Last year I really like th VS room, after several years of meh. Sounds great on Ella, but ssssssibilant on Louis. And his horn is way too in-your-face. Uh, I'm not sure how I feel about some dude's horn in my face.
-
JM Reynaud, dist. by Amherst Audio
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/ab0f4c7a15510c855fa7d1d690cf915a.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/de454eb2e2394e42236fa90c811b34c7.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/bdb5b30f3d5e819e5b6e1affb6ed9438.jpg)
Yuck... I am having issues right off the bat. First very spitty sound. Unrefined on the Beethoven piece they were playing... Lets hope our stuff fairs better. Bach is definitely sounding better, much simpler piece. Zero emotional connection whatsoever the dynamics seem to be either too soft or monotonous. There just doesn't seem to be a lot going on here. The big dynamic passage is about the middle of the pack. There's a certain honkyness to the sound on vocals. Sorry just not doing it from the sweet spot either. Way too many problems on Yorke too. Bass is boxy and unappealing. Vocals are hollow and sterilized. Whiny. Not so happy with this room.
Tyson Notes[/u]
General Room Notes - OK, our first straight up terrible room. Beethoven (Kleiber with the Vienna Philharmonic, I believe) is sounding like it's out of a tin can. Hyper detail freaks may love this room, but this tonal freak does not. Listening to Bach, does not get better. L8r....
-
Your Final System
Von Schweikert Audio
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/bf0650e6c27b30572eb0ad6be2c16d76.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/17875d7ba307c17ed0358645e51a3777.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/d95d60e286583d6e0a24e28106a98c9b.jpg)
Listening. To some version of The Boxer. Sounds thin. Don't know if its the music or the system.... Either way unpleasant. Very tipped up. Lie lie lie lalalala lie never sounded more awkward.
Tyson Notes[/u]
General Room Notes - Another VS room, their first chance to make a 2nd impression! I've built speakers using the dimpled SB Acoustics tweeter and they are a really good sounding tweeter, very easy to work with. Hard to make sound bad. But it's been managed here. And in the other room too. Man, I really WANT to like the VS rooms, they have such beautiful stuff and I like supporting people that are trying to push the envelope, but I've heard the exact same sound in 2 different rooms with different gear and so I must lay the blame at the feet of the speakers. I think last year they were showing the active VR's and those were GREAT. Wish they had them here this year.
-
MA Recordings
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/f94487cd7acd8e7bf31f274223488624.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/e4372f2f2b77763a7e1d248f77ba8368.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/99122a3d3ae9e3c84824b5d4e2455ba4.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/1d99fe82db867b8a9492f4cd040cfb99.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/f041571b1c9bace62d2932446f615fbe.jpg)
MA recordings is never afraid to do something different. They have surprised me for the previous 3 years and this year we walk in and it was completely different. Headphones galore. Just sit down shut up and enjoy the music, which is really what this room is really about. And hell yes they deliver again this year. I'm listening to the woo audio wa2 and it is stunning and wonderful. This is great.
Tyson Notes[/u]
General Room Notes - Every year our musical oasis, where the focus is truly (and literally) on the music. This year is still great, but no speakers! All headphones and dedicated tube amps all around. I got a chance to hear the Beyer T5p and it sounds great through the Woo Audio 6SE. Of course the recordings are all phenomenal, just like they are every year. If you ever make it to RMAF, do yourself a favor and hit this room!!
-
MA Recordings
Tyson Notes[/u]
General Room Notes - Every year our musical oasis, where the focus is truly (and literally) on the music. This year is still great, but no speakers! All headphones and dedicated tube amps all around. I got a chance to hear the Beyer T5p and it sounds great through the Woo Audio 6SE. Of course the recordings are all phenomenal, just like they are every year. If you ever make it to RMAF, do yourself a favor and hit this room!!
Todd is the man!!
-
B.M.C. Audio
Vapor Audio
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/1f79e4a7fc110b3cec133cc5357b9eaa.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/773a3d94a2153328e7b38d4c62cca0c2.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/30565635a0fed3c7a98542a02a313e10.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/c171e02f8e8a2f2388a93ddd29582893.jpg)
Bach cello is superb. Very dense very rich very sweet. Mahler... Great great dynamics did everything very well! (Sorry for short notes. Had technical difficulties) Ani sounds so organic very concrete. The soundstage is incredible. Feels like she's standing behind the curtain. Among the best. Thom Yorke very very strong just excellent. Inpmage and soundstage never waver. Makes me wish I had the entire track to listen to. Emotion conveyed very well. All the digitized effects are hopping around very nicely. Easily within the top 5 rooms period. Might even contend with the absolute top spot. Dynamically speaking this is the best I have heard. Imaging it is probably a very close tie with the zellaton room, with the zellaton probably edging them out slightly. Neutrality these win for me hands down. Tonality would probably be a tie, though I'm going to have to contemplate that aspect for a bit. But damn, great great room.
Tyson Notes[/u]
Bach - Very good but not great on the solo violin. Not as full/emotive as on other systems we have heard.
Mahler - Oh yeah, diging deep on the opening cello's and basses. NOT slow. Things skip along very nicely. Who know Mahler could swing? Nice. Damn, they are killing it on this track. It is the best I've heard this particular track on any system at the show. These speakers are MADE for large orchestra :)
Ani DiFranco - Great guitar, but sssssibilant on the top part of her vocals. But makes up for it with the naked honesty of her voice, very direct emotional connection to the music. Amazing soundstage.
Thom Yorke - Listening off axis a bit now, gave Jason the sweet spot. I gotta give props that they used room treatment. Very nice differentiation on the bass, that's new, I don't think I've actually heard that on any other speakers with this track.
General Room Notes - Wow, thick looking muscular badass looking bookshelf speakers. I don't think speakers this mean looking "Bookshelf" speakers. We should call them "Pedestal" speakers. As in you should worship them. On a custom built alter. They deserve it, both the alter and your worship. Great room.
-
KUBOTEK CORPORATION
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/e1d70e8e551a860ba98f370322e0038a.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/45d588a2158222a355bbe089ba3ca816.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/794978badc44b41e211cc9035ecb46a2.jpg)
Ok for what these speakers are, small sorta ugly boxes they project a bigger sound than one would assume. They have some very good qualities, but also a tendency to sound shrill when larger musical passage are occurring. You don't hear the complete scale that you would expect from an orchestral piece, but you do hear quotes bit more than you expect. Not sure that justifies the $18k price point. Actually I'm positive it does not. In other words they punch above their weight division, but are not competitive price wise.
Tyson Notes[/u]
General Room Notes - PC only system, so no Bach or Mahler this time. But listening to Brahms, so can't be that bad :) I think it's a digital rip of vinyl…..Hmm, indeed it is. Preserved with all the clicks and pops. But I don't want to talk about that, I'd rather point out that there has popped up a "bose on steroids" niche lifestyle system market and this certainly fits with that. Small cube speakers, integrated music server/amp/preamp, etc. They sound as good as can be expected, I suppose.
-
Vapor Audio
Arte Forma INC.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/1a9c936adc48ee5437afc1d54b195c95.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/87653c13ee9886d4cd0ab161a6186c2d.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/c2cfab4fcd8a8fd40120dd257e241b91.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/3968ff5d4c61df7513d2d2b4fe213e98.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/b6839b598eacc13e0f11881f20087ce7.jpg)
On the Bach piece this room doesn't impress as much as the other vapor room. That said still very good sound. The Mahler sort of the same, good ,but to a lessor degree than the prior room. There is a bit of hum coming from the right speaker. To the teeth is the biggest difference I've heard between the two setups. Warmer, but way less detailed. Not quite as emotive despite the warmth. Good imaging but not as good again haha. Thom Yorke sounds too bloated and somewhat veiled. Overly tubey if you will. Tonal balance is just not there in this setup. Upper end of the middle of the pack.
Tyson Notes[/u]
Mahler - Nice, even more speedy on the Mahler, great see-through resolution. In fact, the thing you get from these speakers that no other speakers at this show have captured is the physicality of bows on strings, that they are being pressed and lifted. And the GR Research sub helps fill in the bass drum very well!
Bach - Ceramic drivers usually just make solo violin unlistenable, but these have the bit of self damping on the inner sides of the drivers and it seems to help a lot. Not my favorite rendition of Bach at the show, but very respectable.
Ani DiFranco - Only one other speaker at the show has sounded as good on Ani's guitar and that's the Best in Show Avatar Acoustics room. Both rooms have speakers that go to heroic levels of effort to deal with cabinet resonances. And it pays off, in spades. Very clean sound. OK, after switching places with Jason (giving up the sweet spot), the bass is a bit too boomy, but I think that's a result of having a separate sub. Separate subs can never have perfect integration across multiple locations. From the sweet spot I heard zero boominess.
Thom Yorke - Sounds very good. But I'm starting to get tired of effete Mr. Yorke. QUIT YOUR WHINING. Stupid Jason putting this track in there is making me start to hate Yorke and Radiohead. Regarding the sound, very nice and speedy sound, punchy percussive bass.
General Room Notes -
Don't know why but they kind of remind me of the Vorlons from an aestetic standpoint. Props for doing room treatment. I these are very good speakers but I think the 3 way Vapors on the other room take that small step from very good to excellent.
-
Jolida, Inc.
Von Schweikert Audio
Your Final System
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/85da4bcdb38bce4ecf7d3cf895458bab.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/d608db2cf56d9262e60f3e2674e08e50.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/135e9a2e8a70a8e4aa532da434f175f3.jpg)
Another Von room... We have not been kind to Von today, but this is already shaping up to be a positive experience. Bach is sounding very melodic and sweet great imaging and spectacular emotion. Refinement well beyond the other two rooms we were in. Mahler is deft and the dynamic shading lets every detail shine. So much dimensionally it's crazy. HUGE bass into the dynamic upswing! Ani is pretty damn 3D. Soooo nice. Nothing like the other two rooms. There is a certain degree of coloration that is obvious. Yorke has the same. Most likely due to lack of room treatment. Still better than the other two Von rooms!
Tyson Notes[/u]
Mahler - The crazy thing is that the soundstage is DEEP even with the speakers right against the freaking wall. That is a pretty cool effect. Major kudos on that. Really good center fill, especially considering there is a giant @ss rack right between them.
Bach - Nice to be able to relax into the Bach and no icepick in the ear even when she really digs into those notes.
Ani DiFranco - Less twang and more wood in the guitar sound. Even though it's more laid back, you can hear the nuance in the playing. Ani sounds less angry and more sorrowful, which is pretty dang cool. A different type of presentation, but a good one.
Thom Yorke - OK, I'm relegated to the back of the room now (gee thanks, Jason). Room boundary is increasing bass boom. But from the sweet spot they are not boomy at all. I tell you, these vendors have a difficult issue - when you put up several rows of seats, the fact is that most seats are going to sound bad in some way, with usually only the sweet spot sounding good. Luckily we've been able to get a good amount of time in the sweet spot at this show.
General Room Notes - Hey, this room has the VR22 speakers we liked so much last year! Don't hold the fact that they look like plant holders against them, they are excellent sounding speakers. Liked them last year and liked them even a bit more this year. Yay VS!
-
Burmester of North America
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/8bb540272295562f8842c46a1fb56d00.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/ab921e21203cea0c7d4dfbec678d6604.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/add3f9cafbba1a9cc21bea4f98d6af32.jpg)
Short notes, this room is good not great. Tweeter seems a little bit hot. Sibilant a bit. Slight overloading and unpleasant sometimes. Not staying.
Tyson's NotesGeneral Room Notes - Good sound, not great. A bit spitty up top. Nothing to drive me out of the room, but nothing to really keep me either. Nice dynamics and nice pace, but overall just not really inspiring. It's too bad, they look cool and probably could sound a lot better if the room had been treated. But it hadn't, and they don't.
-
GR Research
Dodd Audio
PI audio group, LLC
dB Audio Labs
Triode Wire Labs, Inc.
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/b1a05129efcbe59c86ef45d20f03cc58.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/a5f29c6792725132497a4634e885a1b1.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/82114a56498ad80df58ad98f34de3a90.jpg)
Ok I'm sure Tyson is raving about this system and he has relatively good reason to. I however am going to start with a bit of a negative. The system sounds a bit tipped up. Almost hot. Especially on female vocals. That said the bass is pretty damn amazing! I like the staging. On cymbals that hotness is hard to ignore for me. The overall tonality is pretty good, but not quite as refined as I like. Very good dimensionality in my opinion. Ethereal and inky black. Too much air in the too end. If toned down this system would be amazing. I tend to feel that open baffle speakers lack body and this is no exception to that. Again very good dimensionality. On some tracks you don't have as bad of an issue with the tipped up tonality but others its very obvious. Listening to a loungy bill withers cover right now and the balance is spot on. That mixed with the imaging create a very great experience. I thi this is probably the most mixed experience I have had today. Very bizarre. Overall I would have to say not quite my cup of tea, but something I could live with.
Tyson's Notes - OK, soundstage is off the hook! I think it's the best soundstage of the entire show. Crazy good. Don't let the pics fool you, these are BIG speakers, bigger than the Super V's, and they sound bigger too. I thought the super V's last year were pretty damn good, but these are clearly better. Midrange transparency and high frequency integration and extension are on a whole 'nother level. Bass is, as always, super insane off da hook!!
OK, but really, how good was the sound? So orgasmically good that I now have to cancel my (recurring) appointment at the asian massage parlor.
Criticisms? They are not warm sounding speakers. They are crystal clear and incredibly dynamic. They are definitely upward tilting in their tonal balance. "Well lit" on some tracks, but a bit bright on other tracks. They beat the Super V's in every area pretty soundly, but tonally they are about the same. Anyway, phenomenal room and you should hear these speakers if you can.
We revisited this room and got much better results see day 3 coverage here: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=110610.msg1142335#msg1142335
-
VTL Amplifiers, Inc.
Wilson Audio
dCS North America
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/e22a87c4cbca4b5bd334d0d3393865de.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/70b9cf402a5b2d957dfe2d2ee534d2c6.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/eec32d80c2cba1846ba8ebf3e08193d9.jpg)
Get my pictures, sit down and suddenly the absolute worst sound I have ever heard explode out of these speakers. There was some sort of file corruption and it caused what I can only describe as white noise at 120 dB. Fuck me I thought I was going to die. Any way the tonality of this setup is very sterile and polite. Devoid of emotion.devoid of true refinement. There seems to be an overloading issue when the piano dynamics increase particularly obvious during a very loud trill.
Tyson's Notes - Wilson speakers! Prepare to exit quickly. Luckily I got a seat really close to the door. Haha, not kidding on that. OK, I've moved to the center and toward the back. Truthfully they sound pretty damn good, and I have to say the music selection is excellent - all classical so far. I suppose if you are the type of person that can afford these speakers, you are the type of person that only listens to classical. Hmmm, wait a minute, that doesn't seem to work the other way around, since I only listen to classical and no way I could afford anything in here. Uh oh, they were sounding pretty great till that high trill on the piano caused some odd distortion out of the tweeter. Might have been the recording though, I"ll keep an ear out for it happening again on another track. But now it's happened 4 times on this track. What else can I say....? I have to say that they certainly look GREAT!
-
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/9c8f99757bc61ebf69bc7db2b6318fb8.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/4cde861c1e9cf7d2d5d109e2629d57fb.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/5a61a559988879cb52039b74837b84e2.jpg)
What can I say about the tweekgeek that I haven't already said for three years. Great balance, amazing emotion delicacy that is pretty much the best you will get from an audio show. Mike Garner knows how to set up a room. Easily in the too five for me. Unlike some rooms where something's are good and something need work this room sans room treatment is very very good. Though I will post more later I am not thoroughly convinced this setup won't overload at louder levels...
Ok they are putting on our track now... Note, we are listening to a switching power supply amp of some sort Bach piece full bodied and .... I'm sorry a bunch of Audioircle assholes are talking too loudly to hear :wink: :P Mahler is... Damn it's just too loud, now someone is cranking tool in the next room over. Haha. Ani disfranchised sounds pretty damn nice but lacking image focus.
Caveat this is not a fair review! It's loud it's a amp that was plugged in from being off for god knows how long. Plea ignore these rantings.
Tyson Notes[/u]
Mahler - Where I am sitting, a bit tubby in the bass and lacking in resolution in the "bow on string" area. On a positive note, there's good color and weight to the brass and wind instrruments. Interesting, the track sort of comes alive at higher volumes, the lower levels make the sound become sort of meh.
Bach - Switching amp and metal drivers should be driving me out of the room. But if anything, the sound is laid back (?!!???!!!)
Ani DiFranco - At least where we are sitting the bass it too strong and a bit overwhelming. It's hard to appreciate what's going on in the mids because of this. The good thing is that the highs are not sibilant.
Thom Yorke - Bass is too strong, mids and especially highs are too laid back.
General Room Notes - I don't know how to say it accurately, but the whole thing just seems sort of muted. Veiled, and emotionally unengaging. It reminds me of that old Western line "Sure is quiet out there...", "Yeah, TOO quiet.". Pretty consistent with the sound I heard from the 400's. Better? Yes. Fundamentally different? No. I'll have to come back tomorrow when they have the Luxman hooked back up again.
-
Get my pictures, sit down and suddenly the absolute worst sound I have ever heard explode out of these speakers. There was some sort of file corruption and it caused what I can only describe as white noise at 120 dB. Fuck me I thought I was going to die. Any way the tonality of this setup is very sterile and polite. Devoid of emotion.devoid of true refinement. There seems to be an overloading issue when the piano dynamics increase particularly obvious during a very loud trill.
Best post of the RMAF report thus far! ROTFLMAO.
Keep it going guys--really appreciate your doing this. Just moved from Denver earlier this year and knew I would miss it right around this time of year!
-
Are those VTL amps really as big as they appear or are those mini-fridges?
-
Yes they are massive.
-
And that's the show for today! Going to dinner with some AC folks. :thumb:
-
GR Research
Dodd Audio
PI audio group, LLC
dB Audio Labs
Triode Wire Labs, Inc.
Now that Danny wants to sell $20,000 speakers, he should consider stepping up his front end. He may notice that people judge a $5,000 speaker quite differently than a $20,000 set. I've witnessed how great the Super V's sound with a $40,000 front end. I've owned pretty much the same front end he's using here with the Mac Mini,Dodd, and Tranquility and they are very good, but the $30,000 in extra gear (chosen with synergy of course) does take the system to the higher echelons. Hopefully he gets the system to shine by tomorrow.
-
If you get a chance, check out the Tocaro speakers in the Austin Hi Fi room. I found them to be clear and natural; these speakers got out of the way of the music.
-
Get my pictures, sit down and suddenly the absolute worst sound I have ever heard explode out of these speakers. There was some sort of file corruption and it caused what I can only describe as white noise at 120 dB. Fuck me I thought I was going to die.
Yikes!
Thanks for checking out the room, hope you're not hurt....did they give a t-shirt for your pain and suffering?
Other reports on the room and speakers are very positive:
http://www.stereophile.com/content/wilson-alexia-and-its-elite-companions
http://www.ultrahighendreview.com/auditioning-the-new-wilson-audio-alexia-loudspeaker
Wilson has already sold 80 pairs of Alexias.
-
Yikes!
Thanks for checking out the room, hope you're not hurt....did they give a t-shirt for your pain and suffering?
Other reports on the room and speakers are very positive:
http://www.stereophile.com/content/wilson-alexia-and-its-elite-companions
http://www.ultrahighendreview.com/auditioning-the-new-wilson-audio-alexia-loudspeaker
Wilson has already sold 80 pairs of Alexias.
I have similar impressions as Pez & Tyson. Every time I listen to Wilson's I find they sound very analytical and not in a good way. Very sterile and not tonaly accurate to my ears. I never never feel like I am listening to music. I think they are some of the most over-hyped, overrated speakers on the market, but they do have a beautiful finish.
Laura
-
Every time I listen to Wilson's I find they sound very analytical and not in a good way. Very sterile and not tonaly accurate to my ears. I never never feel like I am listening to music. I think they are some of the most over-hyped, overrated speakers on the market, but they do have a beautiful finish.
Laura
YES!!!
-
YES!!!
+10
-
I have similar impressions as Pez & Tyson. Every time I listen to Wilson's I find they sound very analytical and not in a good way. Very sterile and not tonaly accurate to my ears. I never never feel like I am listening to music. I think they are some of the most over-hyped, overrated speakers on the market, but they do have a beautiful finish.
Laura
Laura,
Are you at RMAF and listened to the Alexias?
Maybe you're just used to listening to the colorations of a wooden box.;-)
-
Nope they absolutely were awful. Laura is pretty dead on here.
Edit: I also want to posit a question, why is it that a wooden box is colored sounding, yet a composite box is not? The reality is your trading one type of coloration for another. Just because something is new doesn't mean that it sidesteps the laws of physics.
-
Nope they absolutely were awful. Laura is pretty dead on here.
The Dispenser of Truth has spoken! :notworthy: :wink:
-
Laura,
Are you at RMAF and listened to the Alexias?
Maybe you're just used to listening to the colorations of a wooden box.;-)
Ummm. Nope.
-
Yeah I'm going to back up the other opinions here and say the Wilson's were very middle of the road. And just plain stupid at the price they are charging.
-
I think the Wilson Maxx 3's sounded absolutely fabulous in Nick Doshi's room. The Alexias, not so much...
-
At California Audio show,i feel the way.Wilson sound like :roll:.All four of us leave before the song is over.The record they're use on the turntable is dusty and dirty :o.
lapsan
-
LOL!!!
-
:D Super V's . 5k dollars to 20k dollars for new model ,,,, hummmmm You guys are doing a great job relying neat info and great pics.... :D
-
Anybody seen or heard rumors of any magico speaker being used in any room? I know they don't have their own room. Many thanks want to hear the s5.
welcome
-
Hey guys,
You haven't actually hit the Joseph Audio room yet.
We're in 522, with Bel Canto design, & Cardas Audio.
Jeff
JosephAudio
-
Pez/Tyson,
Could you please clarify which Vapors you were commenting on in each room?
-
Many thanks Pez for sharing your impressions with us ! In the Vapor room that impressed you the most, the speakers playing were the Joule Black or the Cirrus Black ?
-
Pez/Tyson,
Could you please clarify which Vapors you were commenting on in each room?
I too was/am confused and would appreciate clarification :scratch:
-
We liked which ever one the three way is.
-
We liked which ever one the three way is.
Well then you're talking about the Joule Black. The Joule Black is a 3-way using the same stacked ply construction as the 2-way Cirrus Black, but features the Audio Technology C-Quenze 8" woofer, the C-Quenze 6" mid and the RAAL 70-20XR. The difference between the two is that the Joule Black has the Audio Technology C-Quenze 8" woofer and that it's more expensive than the Cirrus Black. :)
Thanks again Tyson and Pez.
-
The Vapor/BMC room had the Joule black playing:
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/1f79e4a7fc110b3cec133cc5357b9eaa.jpg)
The Vapor/Arte Forma room had the Cirrus white playing:
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/87653c13ee9886d4cd0ab161a6186c2d.jpg)
As an owner of the Cirrus black here where my take aways. The Joule and the Cirrus sound a lot alike, however as expected the Joule does present much bigger bass. This was apparent on passages with bass drums or an upright bass, other than that the Cirrus is about 95% of what the Joule is. The Cirrus white is similar to the black but as best as I can put it, it has a leaner sound. I usually don't like speakers with Accutron drivers, so the fact I enjoyed these must be some kind of endorsement.
-
And Day 3 thread is up:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=110610.msg1142209
-
Laura,
Are you at RMAF and listened to the Alexias?
Maybe you're just used to listening to the colorations of a wooden box.;-)
Yes, I am at RMAF (been here since Thursday), and I listened to the Alexias. I found them completely unengaging. Typical Wilson analytical sound. No real integration from top to bottom. I listend to some orchestral pieces and a male vocal and the integration from top to bottom was poor. It was like I was listening to a tweeter, then a midrange and then a woofer. Like I said yesterday, it doesn't feel like I'm listening to music. After listening for about 15 minutes in this room, I went to the Odyssey room and the sound was terrific. One is definitely listening to music in the Odyssey room--very engaging and the entire system is $5,900!!!
The Daedalus 100% hardwood speakers are among the most tonally accurate speakers I have heard. They are incredibly neutral. No coloration whatsoever.
I know there are lots of folks that for whatever reason like Wilson speakers. I'm just not one of them.
Laura
-
laura, folks like wilson's cuz they're expensive and have cachet. no one who can actually hear would like them because of the way they sound. imo, of course! 8)
doug s.
-
Yes, I am at RMAF (been here since Thursday), and I listened to the Alexias. I found them completely unengaging. Typical Wilson analytical sound. No real integration from top to bottom. I listend to some orchestral pieces and a male vocal and the integration from top to bottom was poor. It was like I was listening to a tweeter, then a midrange and then a woofer. Like I said yesterday, it doesn't feel like I'm listening to music. After listening for about 15 minutes in this room, I went to the Odyssey room and the sound was terrific. One is definitely listening to music in the Odyssey room--very engaging and the entire system is $5,900!!!
The Daedalus 100% hardwood speakers are among the most tonally accurate speakers I have heard. They are incredibly neutral. No coloration whatsoever.
I know there are lots of folks that for whatever reason like Wilson speakers. I'm just not one of them.
Laura
Thanks for your reply. Here's another take on the Alexia:
http://www.theaudiobeat.com/rmaf2012/rmaf2012_vtl_wilson_dcs.htm
-
Any time you start listing out the retail prices of super expensive gear it influences your judgement. Can't help it, it's human nature. That's why I like going in without knowing any of that. Sure, I know that a particular room might be pricey, but I have no idea how pricey it is, or how pricey any other "expensive" room might be. It really helps to level the playing field.
-
laura, folks like wilson's cuz they're expensive and have cachet. no one who can actually hear would like them because of the way they sound. imo, of course!
That's a pretty broad brush stroke. Classy. I'd like to think some of us actually put a lot of time into sampling what's out there and making an educated decision based on all factors including sound, quality, support and price. "IMO, of course."
-
Any time you start listing out the retail prices of super expensive gear it influences your judgement. Can't help it, it's human nature. That's why I like going in without knowing any of that. Sure, I know that a particular room might be pricey, but I have no idea how pricey it is, or how pricey any other "expensive" room might be. It really helps to level the playing field.
That is an excellent way to do it. I have been to 4 audio shows in the last three years and that is how I approach it too. Just go inside and listen. If the system really grabs you then start asking questions. If not, say thank you and go to the next room. It's way more fun that way and you will learn so much more about the gear and about yourself.
Thank you guys for the excellent coverage. Best RMAF report on the net ever :thumb:. I felt like I was right there with you, agreeing and disagreeing about what we (you) were hearing. Gonna have to make the Denver show one of these times.
-
Thanks for your reply. Here's another take on the Alexia:
http://www.theaudiobeat.com/rmaf2012/rmaf2012_vtl_wilson_dcs.htm
Gee, what a coincidence that the first thing you see on the Audio Beat website is a banner ad for Wilson and the Alexias. :roll:
-
Gee, what a coincidence that the first thing you see on the Audio Beat website is a banner ad for Wilson and the Alexias. :roll:
Well I can see how it's the best of show room for them. If you look at their site the only rooms they went to were Vandersteen/Audio Research and the VTL/Wilson room. They also have a blog post about the development of the AR Ref10 and an ad for Audio Research.
-
Well I can see how it's the best of show room for them. If you look at their site the only rooms they went to were Vandersteen/Audio Research and the VTL/Wilson room. They also have a blog post about the development of the AR Ref10 and an ad for Audio Research.
They're also working on a review of the XLF.
Obviously, they have good taste.;-)
-
Gee, what a coincidence that the first thing you see on the Audio Beat website is a banner ad for Wilson and the Alexias. :roll:
Laura, you are a breath of fresh air. :lol:
Seriously though, this is the EXACT reason why we think the way we do things is the best. These online audio rags can't be objective by definition.
-
Gee, what a coincidence that the first thing you see on the Audio Beat website is a banner ad for Wilson and the Alexias. :roll:
Here another Best of Show from: http://www.audiophilia.com/wp/?p=8787
I don't see any Wilson ads on their website.
"Audiophilia’s Best Sound of Show- Wilson Audio
This was a clear winner. Always full of Wilson Audio admirers, the large room was set up perfectly. The gear was professionally presented by Luke Manley of VTL and Debby Wilson of Wilson Audio. Mr. Wilson attended the show on Friday.
I’ve never been a fan of the Wilson sound world. Tuned very successfully for a specific audiophile demographic (I call it ‘ziss, boom, bah’ — ultra resolved, kaleidoscopic with never ending power), Wilson Audio speakers for my taste looked as cold as they sounded. This sound ‘design’ was modified by Wilson (after a six month world tour of the greatest concert halls) in his smaller Sasha loudspeaker and has continued in spectacular fashion with the new Alexia Loudspeaker ($48K).
It’s a fabulous speaker, especially as heard here accompanied by the wonderful VTL Siegfried mono block amplifiers and a phalanx of digital dCS gear. The Alexia’s retain all that is good in Wilsonland — power and incredible resolution, but they play music so beautifully. Instruments and voices are fleshed out and the timbres are so accurate.
I heard some of Wilson’s personal recordings (by Peter McGrath) and they were very good (but one did remind me that capturing a great soprano on full throttle can be difficult), but the Sony recording of Schubert piano music played by Arcadi Volodos was unbelievably good. Some of the best sounds I’ve heard from a speaker and certainly the best piano tone, both attack and the decay, in my experience. Superb, and on that alone, the magnificent Wilson Audio Alexia’s won the day."
Here's some comments from: http://parttimeaudiophile.com/2012/10/12/rmaf12-opening-and-the-wilson-audio-alexia/
No Wilson ads on this website either.
"The sound in here was pretty startling. Very clear, good imaging, great detail, impactful bass."
-
I appreciate the engineering that goes into the Wilson's but still to this day I don't understand how or why anyone likes the way they sound. I like a very transparent and neutral sound but they are downright painful to me. :dunno:
-
They sucked IMO guys. I'm sure there are people who liked them and that's fine, but this insistence that one must seek out sources that confirm what you already think is very pathetic. If you are trying to justify a preconception then search away. The internet is a hotbed of people who believe the earth is flat, Elvis is alive and Wilson speakers are the greatest thing ever. I'm sure you'll find plenty to back up your belief.
-
people who believe the earth is flat,
Nope
Elvis is alive
Nope
and Wilson speakers are the greatest thing ever.
Nope
-
Dammit jtw, stop shattering people's illusions with your facts!
-
laura, folks like wilson's cuz they're expensive and have cachet. no one who can actually hear would like them because of the way they sound. imo, of course! 8)
doug s.
That's a pretty broad brush stroke. Classy. I'd like to think some of us actually put a lot of time into sampling what's out there and making an educated decision based on all factors including sound, quality, support and price. "IMO, of course."
sorry if it offends - yust my experience after hearing 'em a coupla times. yes, i admit - when i heard 'em, it was under show conditions, or in a store; and i understand that's not optimal. but, one can usually tell if one would wanna further inwestigate. but when you hear something that - to your ears - is truly unmusical, truly bad; it does make you wonder...
ymmv,
doug s.
-
Dammit jtw, stop shattering people's illusions with your facts!
:peek:
-
Jason and I reported what we heard in the Wilson room. Sorry, but the tweeters were hot on those speakers. Jason and I both heard it, independently. You are free to disagree with us, but we were there and you were not.
-
sorry if it offends - yust my experience after hearing 'em a coupla times. yes, i admit - when i heard 'em, it was under show conditions, or in a store; and i understand that's not optimal. but, one can usually tell if one would wanna further inwestigate. but when you hear something that - to your ears - is truly unmusical, truly bad; it does make you wonder...
ymmv,
doug s.
I've heard many models of Wilson speakers at stores or audio shows for the past 20+ years and at best they sounded so-so. I've also heard many Wilson speakers with many different components in homes of friends or audio club members, and on at least three occasions they sounded excellent. From my long experience, Wilson speakers are harder to match up well with other components than most other speaker manufacturers. That's why I no longer make a judgment with Wilson speakers at a show. For you to say: no one who can actually hear would like them because of the way they sound. imo, of course! is irresponsible. Just because they are not your cup of tea, doesn't mean other people don't prefer the flavor. And other people can hear as well as you.
-
I just got home from RMAF and read this thread. I plan to post my show impressions tomorrow but could not let this thread go without comment. The Wilsons were musically uninvolving. IMO they are the poster child of what's wrong with high end audio: built like tanks, high tech, impressive to the casual observer, and utterly uncompetitive with musically faithful components costing much less. I heard dozens of speakers I feel are better than the Wilsons at the show. I have no earthly idea why anybody with a love of music would prefer these to any one of 100 or so other speakers at the show. Tyson, Pez, and Vinyl Lady's comments are spot on.
-
I've heard many models of Wilson speakers at stores or audio shows for the past 20+ years and at best they sounded so-so. I've also heard many Wilson speakers with many different components in homes of friends or audio club members, and on at least three occasions they sounded excellent. From my long experience, Wilson speakers are harder to match up well with other components than most other speaker manufacturers. That's why I no longer make a judgment with Wilson speakers at a show. For you to say: no one who can actually hear would like them because of the way they sound. imo, of course! is irresponsible. Just because they are not your cup of tea, doesn't mean other people don't prefer the flavor. And other people can hear as well as you.
i am yust stating my opinion, based on admittedly limited exposure. to be honest, at the going price for these, i simply have no desire to explore further. i stand by my opinion, sorry you find it "irresponsible". what - is someone gonna get hurt from my opinion? certainly not wilson, they are one of the few audio companies that is like money in the bank. (how many speakers did they sell at rmaf? i forget the number, but there was a mention of it somewhere here.)
hey - it is nice to know you found that, after hearing "many Wilson speakers with many different components in homes of friends or audio club members... ...on at least three occasions they sounded excellent..." at least it is possible to get good sound from them. i am curious tho - how many did you hear in different homes/etc., that didn't sound excellent? 8)
doug s.
-
Jason and I reported what we heard in the Wilson room. Sorry, but the tweeters were hot on those speakers. Jason and I both heard it, independently. You are free to disagree with us, but we were there and you were not.
Actually, I was there, and I will disagree. However, my opinion on that room and several others that were reported on were different (which is totally fine). It's audio, and that happens. Perhaps our ability to hear certain frequencies is different. Perhaps things changed over the course of the weekend. Perhaps one of us had one too many cocktails the night before and thought a car horn sounded like a good system the next morning. Who knows. There were some rooms with gear I know and appreciate that took all weekend to have corrections put in place before they sounded good. Some of the people responsible for these rooms I call friends. Yet, a lot of folks will walk right in and because it's one of their favored brands, they'll claim they were best in show no matter what.
Ultimately, I find it amazing that people feel the need to demean any of the folks who tried to turn a hotel room in one weekend into a good listening experience as if their honor were on the line. I suppose I could've said that certain rooms "sucked" to me, but out of respect to the hard working folks that make this hobby fun, I'll just chalk it up to not caring for that flavor and move on.
-
KJ, that's cool, and I agree with you in part. On the other hand, getting good sound is their JOB and if they can't do it (and others can), that's on them.
-
When I walk into a room and it sounds bad, has basically no room treatment, yet costs well into the six figure region I am not surprised in the least. It happens in almost every big budget system every single year. Cost no object speakers, pathetic room treatment. It's like they think they're immune to the effects of poor acoustic spaces. It's the worst kind of hubris I can imagine. Off the top of my head the following six figure manufacturers had little to NO room treatment and their systems sounded bad over the last few years. Focal, Nordost, Dynaudio, Legacy, MBL, German Physics, Wilson, TAD, NOLA, VTL, Naim, Linn, and B&W. All incredibly expensive setups all with inadequate to no room treatment. What does that say to me? It's endemic amongst cost no object manufacturers that they lack attention to detail despite their claims to the contrary. :o This is where the mom and pop type manufacturers have it all over the big guys. If these cost no object systems are truly better than middle to low priced gear they sure as hell don't show it at these shows. It's truly pathetic.
Last, this idea that my opinion or any of yours is enough to take down a company is asinine. Wilson or any other big name brand do not give a single shit about what I say, the people who can afford to buy this gear don't give a shit what I have to say, and neither should anyone else for that matter. If you are in the market for a speaker or any other piece of equipment and are basing it off of what is said in a blog you have a lot to learn about life.
-
i am yust stating my opinion, based on admittedly limited exposure. to be honest, at the going price for these, i simply have no desire to explore further. i stand by my opinion, sorry you find it "irresponsible". what - is someone gonna get hurt from my opinion? certainly not wilson, they are one of the few audio companies that is like money in the bank. (how many speakers did they sell at rmaf? i forget the number, but there was a mention of it somewhere here.)
hey - it is nice to know you found that, after hearing "many Wilson speakers with many different components in homes of friends or audio club members... ...on at least three occasions they sounded excellent..." at least it is possible to get good sound from them. i am curious tho - how many did you hear in different homes/etc., that didn't sound excellent? 8)
doug s.
You're certainly entitled to your opinion. But to say "no one who can actually hear would like them because of the way they sound" is absolutely not true and it's irresponsible to assume that anyone who can hear has your tastes. I don't really care what Wilson thinks about your opinion and if they sell well. They are generally not my cup of tea either, but I certainly respect the people who own Wilsons and like their sound. And they can hear as well as you and me.
I heard Wilsons sound mediocre in quite a few different home systems, certainly the vast majority of times I've listened to them. Like I said, they are not my cup of tea either. In the few instances when they sounded excellent, all the complementary pieces were tube components.
-
The Focal room which didn't sound so good had lots of ASC Tube Traps; if you look at pictures maybe you can add them up, but I would guesstimate 8 78" x 13" or 16" columns. Wilson likewise had at least 4 I could easily see.
-
ok, ltr317, you win. let me correct my statement:
wery few people who can actually hear would like them because of the way they sound. far better sound can be far more easily achieved for far less money, for most people. happy now? :roll:
doug s.
-
The Focal room which didn't sound so good had lots of ASC Tube Traps; if you look at pictures maybe you can add them up, but I would guesstimate 8 78" x 13" or 16" columns. Wilson likewise had at least 4 I could easily see.
The wilson room had major overhang issues as I stated inadequate treatment there's more to making a room sound good than bass traps. The focal room also was obviously inadequate treatment. Read my notes, bass boominess, midrange bloom, and in my notes "Perhaps with more aggressive room treatment these problems would be overcome. "
-
Here another Best of Show from: http://www.audiophilia.com/wp/?p=8787
Wow our ears have to be completely different, a side from the Wilson's as best of show their next top 3 includes:
German Physiks
mbl
Focal-JMLabs
Other than the insane size of the mbl mono blocks all those rooms where forgettable.
-
+1
Other than mbl I didn't make it to them this year.
-
Well, the show coverage was really fun but this post game blame game kinda sucks. :shake:
-
+1
Other than mbl I didn't make it to them this year.
Lol, wow Pez it really was forgettable for you :lol:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=110562.msg1141598#msg1141598
-
:o Apparently so!
-
Laura, you are a breath of fresh air. :lol:
Seriously though, this is the EXACT reason why we think the way we do things is the best. These online audio rags can't be objective by definition.
Jason,
Your's and Tyson's coverage was spectacular! I loved the honest, straight-forward, take-no-prisoners, what-you-hear-is what-you-get appraoch. Just like you and Tyson agreed on some rooms and disagreed on others, I found myself agreeing you on a couple and with Tyson on a couple of others. Far the most part, I found your comments in line with my impressions from the show. As you said more than once, this is a subjective hobby. We have different tastes and no two ears are the same. That is part of what makes this a great hobby.
jhm731,
I'm not sure why you posted and quoted from show reviews that thought the Wilson room was peachy. If it was to demonstrate that not everyone had the same impression of the room that I and several other posters had, I accept that without question. As I said above, this is a subjective hobby and there are different tastes, different likes and dislikes and as Pez & Tyson reported, two audiophiles hearing the same music played on the same system sometimes had completely different impressions. As KJ said, "It's audio and that happens."
Laura
-
I do find it interesting that many people tend attribute the sound of a room predominately to the speakers, with little comment on the rest of the chain (though Tyson and Pez and others rightly harp on the need for room treatments).
I spent part of Saturday specifically looking for DACs and as part of that process, asked several manufacturers to demonstrate different filter settings on their DACs. The effect was often quite distinct, even in show conditions, and could easily take a system from interesting to dull and back again. And those distinct effects were produced by "tweaking" a single setting on a single piece of gear. Walk into the demo at the wrong time, and you'd risk forming an inaccurate impression.
In my opinion, the most a person can defensibly say is that they did, or did not, prefer a given show room at a given point in time with the system in that room considered as a whole, including the presence of room treatments. The number of variables at play is tremendous, and blaming the sound of a show room on any single component is an exercise fraught with peril. And as a reader, I'm going to take those comments at face value. At most, someone else's opinion is merely going to increase or decrease my desire to audition a component in my own system to form my own opinion. Spending time worrying about what other people prefer or being envious of gear I can't afford isn't going to get me any closer to a system I enjoy.
My other suggestion would be for those writing reviews at any level to fully express their own audio preferences so as to give readers a better reference point from which to interpret your comments. Audio is an phenomenal mix of compromise in the face of physics on the part of designers, and uniquely personal preference fighting against financial and lifestyle constraints on the part of consumers, complicated by component synergy on both fronts. No wonder the road to audio nirvana is so particularly individualized, yet so universally bumpy!
-
They can only give us what they give us, I don't think they have the time to go to all those individual rooms and ask to play with dac settings. What they do well, however, is to go every show, and keep records of how the presenter sounded the years before. So I don't see a problem. I like the patterns that develop from it, for one thing, it seems some manufacturers are consistently panned, and you know they are using different source each time... and some manufacturers are consistently good.
You can also thank them for harping on room treatment. Looks like that was heard loud and clear.
They also do manage to go back to rooms of note to see how things ended up.
Tyson and Pez are an invaluable commodity for those of us who couldn't make it.
-
I do find it interesting that many people tend attribute the sound of a room predominately to the speakers, with little comment on the rest of the chain (though Tyson and Pez and others rightly harp on the need for room treatments).
I spent part of Saturday specifically looking for DACs and as part of that process, asked several manufacturers to demonstrate different filter settings on their DACs. The effect was often quite distinct, even in show conditions, and could easily take a system from interesting to dull and back again. And those distinct effects were produced by "tweaking" a single setting on a single piece of gear. Walk into the demo at the wrong time, and you'd risk forming an inaccurate impression.
In my opinion, the most a person can defensibly say is that they did, or did not, prefer a given show room at a given point in time with the system in that room considered as a whole, including the presence of room treatments. The number of variables at play is tremendous, and blaming the sound of a show room on any single component is an exercise fraught with peril. And as a reader, I'm going to take those comments at face value. At most, someone else's opinion is merely going to increase or decrease my desire to audition a component in my own system to form my own opinion. Spending time worrying about what other people prefer or being envious of gear I can't afford isn't going to get me any closer to a system I enjoy.
My other suggestion would be for those writing reviews at any level to fully express their own audio preferences so as to give readers a better reference point from which to interpret your comments. Audio is an phenomenal mix of compromise in the face of physics on the part of designers, and uniquely personal preference fighting against financial and lifestyle constraints on the part of consumers, complicated by component synergy on both fronts. No wonder the road to audio nirvana is so particularly individualized, yet so universally bumpy!
Good post Brian. Did you find a DAC(s) you enjoyed?
-
I would just like to add that when I went to the Montreal show I found it truly remarkable how may rooms sounded bad. Obviously if the gear was worth megabucks this impressed me even more. We pay to go and hear this stuff!
(as a side note, Focal had a large room, into which we were herded, the doors were barred and then we were "treated" to a listen. Once the music stopped the sales team descended on us like frenzied seagulls trying to get the last french fry on the sidewalk. Really...)
-
Every CES show that I ever went to, the Wilson system was hot. They always used the Krell electronics back then on the Watt, Puppy combo. And they always had a huge ballroom to display them in. Less than two minutes of listening, I always left the room with my ears burning. :o
It just sounds like the same-o, same-o.
-
It was a trip meeting Tyson and Pez and many others from AC, especially Jason. Thank you for your time and professional coverage. Your honesty and no holes barred coverage is well received and much appreciated. Kudos.
The products we carry were well represented in the GR, Analysis, JPS and BSGT rooms. Spent most of my time with the boys in the GR room. Glad I did. Meeting Danny, Dave, Gary and Eric for the first time in person it only confirmed what I felt. Dedication and honsety. Great show great people what else could one ask for.
See ya all next year.
charles
-
Great to meet you too! :thumb:
-
The wilson room had major overhang issues as I stated inadequate treatment there's more to making a room sound good than bass traps. The focal room also was obviously inadequate treatment. Read my notes, bass boominess, midrange bloom, and in my notes "Perhaps with more aggressive room treatment these problems would be overcome. "
I agree inadequate despite using quite a bit of treatment. A big question is will it be better next year if they realize now that they need more?
-
I hope every room improves year over year. And room treatment is the most obvious way to do it. I know some feel that I've been overly harsh here, but nothing could be further from the truth. I want to hear one of these megabuck systems absolutely blow my mind like I would expect them to given the price point vs other setups. Sometimes they sound pretty damn good, but never has one left me longing to be filthy stinkin rich so I can afford this stuff. And that's just an odd thing to say...
-
It was a trip meeting Tyson and Pez and many others from AC, especially Jason. Thank you for your time and professional coverage. Your honesty and no holes barred coverage is well received and much appreciated. Kudos.
Same to you Rollo, thanks for your suggestion that we give the GR room a second shot. It was worth the trip!
-
Thank you for your time and professional coverage. Your honesty and no holes barred coverage is well received and much appreciated.
:no_see: Eeeek!
No holds barred...
-
jhm731,
I'm not sure why you posted and quoted from show reviews that thought the Wilson room was peachy. If it was to demonstrate that not everyone had the same impression of the room that I and several other posters had, I accept that without question. As I said above, this is a subjective hobby and there are different tastes, different likes and dislikes and as Pez & Tyson reported, two audiophiles hearing the same music played on the same system sometimes had completely different impressions. As KJ said, "It's audio and that happens."
Laura
Here's another one:
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/steven-stones-best-of-show-rmaf-2012/
"Best Sound (cost no object) – Once again, the VTL/Wilson/DCS/Transparent Audio Room on the second floor (2030) garners my vote for best sound at the show. It was my first time hearing the Wilson Alexia speakers and I was more than slightly gob smacked by the system’s ease and power. Comparing Peter McGrath’s recording of Gershwin’s Rhapsody in Blue with my own recording over the system was a revelation. I’ve never heard a more revealing, yet still musical system. The reproduction chain seemed virtually non-existent as we compared microphone placements and listening perspectives of the two recordings."
Laura-
It's not just that "two audiophiles hearing the same music played on the same system sometimes had completely different impressions."
I posted these quotes, because you walked into room 2030 with a chip on your shoulder against Wilson.
It's really sad that your personal bias didn't allow you to hear what other people thought was a very impressive new product.
Aloha
-
I dont think he CARES waht others think! That is not the point. To him, what HE think is what is important and I dont see why that upsets anyone.
-
I dont think he CARES what others think! That is not the point. To him, what HE think is what is important and I dont see why that upsets anyone.
All this is to be taken with a grain of salt anyway. It supposed to be light-hearted fun!
-
I posted these quotes, because you walked into room 2030 with a chip on your shoulder against Wilson.
It's really sad that your personal bias didn't allow you to hear what other people thought was a very impressive new product.
huh?!? what is really sad is that your bias doesn't allow you to believe some people think what you like sounds like crap.
have you ever followed laura's posts? your comment is completely out of line. i am certain, 100%, that laura had no chip on her shoulder that would have prevented her from liking the wilsons, if she actually thought they sounded good.
and i was accused of making "irresponsible" comments in this thread! :lol:
aloha,
doug s.
-
I have never understood why people discuss each other's opinion on something since it is just that. It isn't an absolute. These forums are more valuable when people bring information to others such as new products they saw, etc. It is fine to state an opinion but that opinion should really only be valuable to people who are familiar with that person's taste. Otherwise it is just pink noise.
-
Laura-
I posted these quotes, because you walked into room 2030 with a chip on your shoulder against Wilson.
It's really sad that your personal bias didn't allow you to hear what other people thought was a very impressive new product.
Aloha
Having emailed and PM'd Laura many times, I find these comments rude. If you ever met her, I can say with certainty you wouldn't be saying this. She is not only an excellent woman but also a die hard audiophile that seems to be able to afford pretty much whatever she wants (judging by her system profile). I don't believe there was any bias but just her opinion which she is most definitely entitled too as all of us are.
-
I'll be so happy when the election is over. :thankyou:
:green:
-
Not surprising that there's a bit of a "U-shaped" distribution on Wilsons. To my ear, the highs are presented in a way that some think of as "detail" and others find "edgy." I'm very sensitive to forwardness in the highs, and find myself in the second camp (although I somehow think of the Wilson tonal balance in as "cool" rather than "hot," which might help explain the "uninvolving" complaint sometimes made).
Plenty of criticism along these lines, but recently, I've been reading reviews (Dudley?) saying "I didn't used to like Wilson, but I really like," the Sophia III, or Sasha, or whatever. I visited the Wilson room with the expectation that perhaps the house sound had relaxed a bit, but I had the same impression others here did, and I had on hearing the Sophia II -- the new is definitely of a piece with the old.
But it's easy for me to see how someone who likes the virtues Wilson promotes would like them, just as it easy to see how someone who favors a more relaxed, "musical" presentation (perhaps at the expense of some detail), such as Daedalus, would not like them. (I'd take the Daedalus, esp. given the price difference.)
I thought Laura was pretty up front with her preferences, and also in acknowledging that others might differ.
Peace,
John
-
Enough Wilson talk. Any mention of Wilson below this line is automatically going to be deleted.
__________________________________
-
Pez, your comments are great; they remind me of President Woodrow WILSON.
Oh, I need my tennis racquet back that you borrowed from me. You know, the one with WILSON on the strings?
I just watched Castaway again...... oh never mind. :)
-
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-rDFOf62uhmk/TZqQXR9L8nI/AAAAAAAAFe4/4Vc6uE-F5VI/s1600/tumblr_l946q56nS11qbpo3c.png)
WIIIILLLLSOOOONNNN!!!!!!!!!
-
jhm,
Given Pez's "line in the sand" I am sending you a PM. I assure you I have no chip on my shoulder or bias for or against any manufacturer of audio gear. Like Pez & Tyson in the great coverage, I just try to call em as I hear em. :) This was my 8th RMAF (I missed the first one). I keep coming back because I love music, love audio and, most importantly, I have met some really cool people and many of them have become friends.
Peace,
Laura
-
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=TBfRJh2vhdE&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DTBfRJh2vhdE
-
Willlllsssoooonnnnn...
http://youtu.be/AfcWWv1Z-1k
-
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=TBfRJh2vhdE&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DTBfRJh2vhdE
beat me to it by seconds, :thumb:
-
Enough Wilson talk. Any mention of Wilson below this line is automatically going to be deleted.
__________________________________
KMA!
-
I was going to add my 2 cents/peenyworth about the speakers which can not be named, but won't, in deference to Pez's wishes. All I will say, is the only speakers I have enjoyed and that a lot, are the cheapest, the Duetts.
To my main point, I use and love Daedalus DA-RMas and will continue to do so, but the coverage has peaked my interest in Vapor, as a possible change of pace. Is anyone prepared to compare and contrast the 2 rooms at RMAF, or even comment from prior exposure.
Thanks David
-
KMA!
my condolences, jhm.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=48152)
8)
doug s.
-
my condolences, jhm.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=48152)
8)
doug s.
And not just jhm, my condolences go out to all who have had their feelings hurt from any negative based opinionated reviews,,, hope you all get well soon. :thumb:
Cheers,
Robin
-
Playback Designs
Puget Sound Studios
ATR Services, Inc.
Evolution Acoustics
Wave Kinetics
B.M.C. Audio
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacolypse%202012/0a186be52cf15504d1f3ac587b4b574d.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacoRMAF%202012/44328b6b6a092c0effcdd6907a5d164d.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd370/pezacoRMAF%202012/4d0086fb778b35b5dea23c0d92657b9b.jpg)
(http://i1216.photobucket.com/al/pezacolypse/RMAF%202012/88c4cb3e53fe0d88316387fda7e5a82d.jpg)
No cd olayer in this room running reel to reel. Very nice mellow sound and incredibly laid back. Excellent overall tonal balance and nothing jumps out as offensive in the least. I am way outside of the sweets pot but I am still thoroughly nipple joking of what I'm hearing. Though they have no room treatment the sound is still rather good. Of course we are not listening at ear bleeding levels. The speakers are appropriately sized for this room.
Tyson Notes[/u]
General Room Notes - First room of the 2nd day. These are pretty sweet looking speakers! Remind me quite a bit of the Sonus Faber styling, so…sexy. But they have ceramic (metal?) drivers. I almost always hate speakers with metal drivers. LIstening to them from the reel to reel and they actually sound pretty good and I'm not running from the room screaming. If that's not a ringing endorsement, I don't know what is! Speaking of ringing, these guys actually seem to not suffer from that particular problem too much. I'm guessing that the small diameter of the driver helps with that.
Oh, listenening to Shelby Lynn now instead of the previous swamp rock male vocals. These things are hyper detailed and super transparent, one of the most transparent I've heard outside of stats. But they suffer from a common problem for this type of speaker - too much power response in the presence region. When she leans in hard on the vocals, it overloads the room and becomes hard/brittle and now, indeed, I am running out of the room. Maybe Pez will let me borrow his earplugs....
these drivers aren't actually ceramic drivers. just for the record.
(Moderator edit: please DO NOT. Repost pictures. It pollutes the topic too much. Thank you.)
-
I'm surprised to hear that nobody has mentioned the horrible techno DJ rave like music on Saturday night in the atrium. My head is still ringing (I sound old) as a bunch of us ate at The Lift. :duh: :duh: :duh:
I really hope that's not part of the plan next year.
-
I'm surprised to hear that nobody has mentioned the horrible techno DJ rave like music on Saturday night in the atrium. My head is still ringing (I sound old) as a bunch of us ate at The Lift. :duh: :duh: :duh:
I really hope that's not part of the plan next year.
Got that right. What were they thinking.
charles
-
No one mentioned it because all the cool kids were at Shanahan's 1 block away eating ridiculously good steak, wyagu beef, oysters on the half shell, red wine, and scotch. BAM! :D
-
Tyson,
Sorry I missed that. :green: Was the check as high as it was last year at Shanahan's? :)
James
-
No one mentioned it because all the cool kids were at Shanahan's 1 block away eating ridiculously good steak, wyagu beef, oysters on the half shell, red wine, and scotch. BAM! :D
Glad I wasn't there. :P
-
Jason,
They actually auctioned that volleyball WIIIILLLLSOOOONNNN!!!!!!!!!, a couple of years ago, one could buy a very nice system for the highest bid :scratch:
-
(Moderator edit: please DO NOT. Repost pictures. It pollutes the topic too much. Thank you.)
Why is this so difficult? :duh: We've seen the pictures once, don't need a long string of them repeated in the same thread again.
-
Why is this so difficult? :duh: We've seen the pictures once, don't need a long string of them repeated in the same thread again.
It was the guys 1st post for crying out loud! :lol:
-
Now he knows. (http://www.maanclan.com/images/smilies/smiley_-_spanked.gif) ........ :lol:
-
Tyson,
Sorry I missed that. :green: Was the check as high as it was last year at Shanahan's? :)
James
We're not sure what the bill ended up being. Let us know when it shows up on your credit card statement. :P
-
3 pairs going to shows in Asia:
(http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/564804_10151456246912656_300736756_n.jpg)
-
3 pairs going to shows in Asia:
Do you work for Wilson?
-
Do you work for Wilson?
No.
Do you work for Hypex Electronics?
-
No.
Ah OK. Simple question so no need to be on the defensive. Where did you get that nice inside pic? Wilson Forum?
Do you work for Hypex Electronics?
Nope.
-
Where did you get that nice inside pic?
Facebook.
-
I don't work for Wilson either.
I don't even know a person named Wilson.
-
Got my T-shirt today.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=69907)
-
Got my T-shirt today.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.p?id=69907)
congratulation ,Yeeaaaaaaahhhh :thumb:
-
If you didn't get a chance to hear the new Alexia at RMAF and you live in the Los Angeles area, the speaker's West Coast Premier will be held at Sunny's this Saturday, November 3 at 1:00pm in MDT at 1370 E. Cypress Street Suite D Covina, CA.
-
(http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/c464.0.403.403/p403x403/18482_10151493357397656_1198204167_n.jpg)
-
(http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/c464.0.403.403/p403x403/18482_10151493357397656_1198204167_n.jpg)
Get my pictures, sit down and suddenly the absolute worst sound I have ever heard explode out of these speakers. There was some sort of file corruption and it caused what I can only describe as white noise at 120 dB. Fuck me I thought I was going to die. Any way the tonality of this setup is very sterile and polite. Devoid of emotion.devoid of true refinement. There seems to be an overloading issue when the piano dynamics increase particularly obvious during a very loud trill.
Tyson's Notes - Wilson speakers! Prepare to exit quickly. Luckily I got a seat really close to the door. Haha, not kidding on that. OK, I've moved to the center and toward the back. Truthfully they sound pretty damn good, and I have to say the music selection is excellent - all classical so far. I suppose if you are the type of person that can afford these speakers, you are the type of person that only listens to classical. Hmmm, wait a minute, that doesn't seem to work the other way around, since I only listen to classical and no way I could afford anything in here. Uh oh, they were sounding pretty great till that high trill on the piano caused some odd distortion out of the tweeter. Might have been the recording though, I"ll keep an ear out for it happening again on another track. But now it's happened 4 times on this track. What else can I say....? I have to say that they certainly look GREAT!
Yup, they do look GREAT. :thumb: