AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Tube-o-phile Circle => Topic started by: irishpatrick33 on 17 Apr 2009, 04:29 pm
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Hello,
I am looking for advice. I have to downgrade temporarily (physically and monetrily). And I am asking others because there is much out there that I am not aware of.
I am looking for a 2 channel amp preferably under $500. It will be driving 88dB 4Ohm speakers. There will only be one source (which has no volume control).
Now my big issue is that I have owned tube amps for years and love the fat sound. I can't imagine going back now.
Simplicity is the key for me. I would rather avoid multiple components (tube buffer, preamp). Not to mention I don't want a huge amp.
So here's what I have looked at but doesn't seem to fit the bill exactly:
Winsome Labs Mouse (scared it will lack the tubelike sound)
Trends TA-10.1 (scared it will lack the tubelike sound)
Kingrex T-20 (scared it will lack the tubelike sound)
Roth Audio MC4 Music Cocoon (seems stupid owning an ipod amp and not use it for it's purpose)
Fatman itube (seems stupid owning an ipod amp and not using it for it's purpose)
Am I missing THE ONE? I am really interested in checking out these new T amps. But I fear I will be desperately missing the tube.... especially considering the source needs some tubelike refining.
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Vintage Scott LK48 or 299B.
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>>I am really interested in checking out these new T amps
The polar opposite of tubes. Hyper-analytical sound if that is what you are after.
The only sand amp that I have ever heard that sounded tube-like was the Pass stuff.
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Check CraigsList for vintage SS receiver of good pedigree. Find a good local tech for tune up and basic mods.
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If you feel you need to stay in the new market, check out Jolida. I have seen a new hybrid integrated amp from them for @$400.
Their EL84 tube integrated is in the $650 range, which I know is above your $500 limit but might be worth trying to wrangle yourself into it. :?
Walt
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Used Jolida or Antique Sound lab integrated. Lots of interesting integrateds these days. You could look on Audiogon in their integrated category and get lots of ideas better suited to your sound preference than what you've mentioned.
Best of luck!
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You should be able to an Onix SP3 used four $500ish shipped
Edited: Forgot to mention... several reviews online... and comments by people who rolled tubes.
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Sorry. I guess I should have mentioned that I would prefer new.
Brassear, I hear what you are saying. Though only thing that makes me wonder is the two T amps reviewed have been suggested to be as close to tube audio as it gets: Kingrex T20 and Virtue Audio 1 & 2. So I have left the door open considering their fanfare.
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You could use the T amp in a bi-amp configuration when you go back to your original amps. :thumb:
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Haven't heard it but the Sophia Baby looks interesting
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check out my post here. the auction closed but $460 would have gotten you this amp, delivered:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=66986.msg619943#msg619943
doug s.
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Have owned everything on your list sans the Roth. I preferred the trends most of all. The winsome had astonishing bass, but somehow never produced music that was as "integrated-sounding" if that's a term. That being noted, @88 db I'd go for the sophia el34. Can be found for astonishingly low prices... best amp I've heard for around $400.
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Have owned everything on your list sans the Roth. I preferred the trends most of all. The winsome had astonishing bass, but somehow never produced music that was as "integrated-sounding" if that's a term. That being noted, @88 db I'd go for the sophia el34. Can be found for astonishingly low prices... best amp I've heard for around $400.
i owned a sophia bebe, (the el84 iteration), but it had a different name on it. same amp, tho, and a wery nice one, at that. you can buy the el34 iterations brand-new, w/o the sophia moniker on 'em, direct, for less than $400 shipped:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220398524660
(http://i1.ebayimg.com/06/i/001/41/2a/007c_10.JPG)
doug s.
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Thanks for the help guys. I'm still looking.
Not sold on the Sophia types. If I was going to go that direction... I think I would grab the Glow Amp. But it seems they jumped their prices up in the middle of a recession. Actually it seems just about everybody is doing that.
I am really surprised there aren't more affordable hybrid options out there. I found the AMC and Bada.... and not much else.
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Not sure why you are only looking at new products. If you expanded your search to used you would greatly increase the available offerings. And for amps, used vs. New hardly matters imo. If you would consider used, I would second the Onix SP3 for about $500. It is a great integrated and has the tube sound you say you want to keep. Good luck.
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There are of course plenty of examples of tube preamps and amps that are warm and euphonic, some might even call them syruppy. But there are also examples of tube gear which are clean and neutral, some even a little cold and bright.
I have heard a number of t-amps, and did not find them cold, sterile or analytical.
The Bel Canto ICEpower amps, yes, and Nuforce amps too I found these to be decidedly analytical, but I don't feel the same way about t-amps, at least not the two KingRex amps I owned or the Red Wine Audio 30.2 I own now.
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I hear what you are saying wilysnet.
The more I look around the more it seems to lead back to a T amp. Some have recomended the Virtue Audio 1, which happens to be out of stock.
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I have a Yaqin MC-10L that I got from eBay that I really like, decent power and nice warm tone. The only problems have been a slightly noisy volume pot when adjusting. There is probably a little more risk buying eBay from a small vendor, if something goes wrong, but for the price the risk was worth it to me. Also you'll want to get some Russian NOS 6N1P's, but they're only about $2 ea. on eBay.
This is the vendor I bought mine from, and it was a good experience:
http://cgi.ebay.com/YAQIN-MC-10L-Push-Pull-Integrated-Stereo-Tube-Amplifier_W0QQitemZ130301019487QQihZ003QQcategoryZ3280QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem
As far as buying used, especially newer models, most people who try tubes aren't likely to abuse their gear and you often get the benefit of some of their tube rolling experiments. A lot of entry level tube gear is kind of a "testing the waters" purchase when people switch from SS, then once they're hooked on tubes the upgrade bug hits. Of course, you have to get what you're comfortable with. I have an Onix/Melody SP3 as well, and I'd say it is a better built and sounding amp than the Yaqin, and wouldn't hesitate to pick one up used.
If you are inclined to go with a chinese amp, you might also look at some of the offerings from Pacific Valve:
http://www.pacificvalve.us
They have a lot of interesting tube, hybrid and SS models.
Jim C
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A lot of people seem to like the Virtue One/Two amps from Virtual Audio as well. They sounded nice in a few rooms at RMAF this year, but I haven't heard one in the real world.
http://store.virtueaudio.com/category-s/26.htm
Jim C
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I'm also not sure why you're not interested in used equipment. Nearly all of my system is second hand. When buying at a price point you greatly expand your capabilities when adding used as a consideration.
Good luck!
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The Tec-On Audio stuff looks interesting as well, but I haven't heard these. At 4 & 8 wpc for their two offerings they may be too low power.
http://www.teconaudio.com/
Jim C
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there is yust no way you will better the performance of this amp for $500, imo, unless you go wintage:
(http://i2.ebayimg.com/08/i/001/19/e2/9943_3.JPG)
30w triode, 60w ul, adjustable tube bias, true dual mono, and gorgeous in either color scheme. use as an integrated, or bypass the inputs and use as an amp.
you can buy direct from china for $500 delivered, or if that makes you nervous, spend a hundred or so more, and make an offer from this canada seller, recommended earlier for the el34 amp:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130300625862
personally, i would yust buy the amp direct from china, cuzz if you have any issues, you are still gonna be better off paying to have it repaired locally than sending it to either place - unless you happen to live in toronto... and even then, it will still be a good deal, imo.
doug s.
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I wouldn't pick a KingRex if you have speakers with a difficult to drive impedance load. A friend of mine blew two KingRex amps this way, they just went up in smoke despite everything sounding ok. If you have reasonably efficient speakers, the KingRex is clean and transparent, on the ever so slightly warm side of neutral. The RWA 30.2 is warmer, throws a bigger sound stage, tonally more dense and more dynamic too. But the RWA is also 10x the money.
For $500, why not consider Niteshade audio? He has a couple of integrateds in that ballpark and can build to your specs.
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For $500, why not consider Niteshade audio? He has a couple of integrateds in that ballpark and can build to your specs.
Great idea!
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i owned a onix sp3, and i modded it. i ended up with a kingrex, and stock tubes sp3 to stock kingrex they sound almost identicle. there are differences but they are too subtle to really harp on for an amp of this price range.
i sold my sp3 (when there was about 300 worth of tubes in it, it did outperform the kingrex) and i am now happy using the kingrex in my second system.
:) dont discount the sound of a t-amp so quickly, even if you do enjoy tubey mids
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That is really odd the Niteshade is mentioned. I just stumbled upon it prior to opening this thread again. I think the Niteshade gets disqualified on two fronts: size and wattage.
I have three parameters that are going to limit my choices, footprint, wattage and style. I never gave those parameteres because I planned on doing the filtering, rather than asking others to do everything for me. I feel bad enough just asking others for ideas. But there really is a lot that can be impossible to find.
Normally I am not a big believer in wattage. But I am getting nervous. I am building an open baffle setup with 88dB drivers.... and I don't want to add a potential problem into the mix by choosing an amp with limited wattage.
Johnzm, I hear you. I just bought the Virtue Audio 2. I can try it and sell it if I don't like it.
I was trying to find an American made option, but pickings are slim especially on a budget.
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This guy's refurbed vintage amps look interesting: http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstube&1243442609&/Baldwin-Tube-Amp-6L6-push-pull
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hello
looks like this little amp got a very nice review and might be worth a look.
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/dayens/ampino.html
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Thanks for the help guys. I'm still looking.
Not sold on the Sophia types. If I was going to go that direction... I think I would grab the Glow Amp. But it seems they jumped their prices up in the middle of a recession. Actually it seems just about everybody is doing that.
I am really surprised there aren't more affordable hybrid options out there. I found the AMC and Bada.... and not much else.
Your speakers are going to be an issue with a low power amp. The Sophia amps are well regarded and offer bang for the buck. Check the classifieds here and at Agon. You can find a decent amp within your budget. The foreign stuff is going up because we have been printing a lot of money. :duh:
Edit: This is a good deal: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=66873.0