[Delacroix]

Here's some nice images of the new VSA cables, courtesy of Albert. I'll add some of the official text too but has anyone here experienced these yet?  They are described as lab-quality, hand-built cables, copper (six-nines) in a vacuum-formed Teflon, ABX-tested by a listening panel. Prices range from $950 for  a 1m interconnect, to $5000 for the signature series 8ft biwire speaker cables, with extra lengths available. Power cords are also in the new line (starting at $2500 for 6ft). Now you know you want them......



Interconnects:



Speaker cables:

[McTwins]

Hi

Nice

Is it silver or copper cable

Thanks

[varsharun]

These are exceptional cables for the price. I have the VSA interconnect and the regular $2500 VSA 8ft biwire (not the signature) hooked up
to the Unifield 3. The transparency and detail is amazing. Some time back I did some blind listening tests to see if the Unifield was sensitive
to cables. I first compared these to the Kimber Hero and 8TC and it blew the kimber away, no contest. I then compared these to the highly
acclaimed Audience Au24 cables and I much prefer the warmth and soundstaging of the VSA cables. I hope to obtain one of the high end
synergistic research cables from a friend one of these days to see how the VSA stacks up.

-Arun

Here's some nice images of the new VSA cables, courtesy of Albert. I'll add some of the official text too but has anyone here experienced these yet?  They are described as lab-quality, hand-built cables, copper (six-nines) in a vacuum-formed Teflon, ABX-tested by a listening panel. Prices range from $950 for  a 1m interconnect, to $5000 for the signature series 8ft biwire speaker cables, with extra lengths available. Power cords are also in the new line (starting at $2500 for 6ft). Now you know you want them......



Interconnects:



Speaker cables:

[stewie]

I suppose it was inevitable that VSA would jump on the cable bandwagon, but frankly, the notion that someone would, with a straight face, charge $950 for a yard of i.c., or 5k for 8 ft of speaker cable, bi wire or not, is positively laughable. Albert is not alone, by any means, but this is chicanery, pure and simple. A shame, too, since I dearly love my VSA speakers.

[SundayNiagara]

I suppose it was inevitable that VSA would jump on the cable bandwagon, but frankly, the notion that someone would, with a straight face, charge $950 for a yard of i.c., or 5k for 8 ft of speaker cable, bi wire or not, is positively laughable. Albert is not alone, by any means, but this is chicanery, pure and simple. A shame, too, since I dearly love my VSA speakers.

Borrow a set and let your ears be the judge.  You might be surprised.

[varsharun]

Stewie,

Most of the audiophile stuff follows the law of diminishing returns as you know. I mean is the 130K wilson X2 really that superior to the VR5 or VR7 to warrantthe price difference? Heck you may even prefer the VRs if you think the Wilsons can get too analytical at times like me. Same with cables. If anything VSA cables are more value for money than other brands. Firstly they are handmade, and secondly, in terms of quality, they compete with cables 2-3 times their price. I don't have the technical know-how to conduct measurements but hopefully these cables will be reviewed in mags some time soon. In the meantime, let your ears be the judge, especially when you have Albert's 90 day satisfaction guarantee.

-Arun

I suppose it was inevitable that VSA would jump on the cable bandwagon, but frankly, the notion that someone would, with a straight face, charge $950 for a yard of i.c., or 5k for 8 ft of speaker cable, bi wire or not, is positively laughable. Albert is not alone, by any means, but this is chicanery, pure and simple. A shame, too, since I dearly love my VSA speakers.

[es347]

....this is chicanery, pure and simple....

I understand your skepticism believe me, I used to be one of the exotic cable industry's biggest doubters.  But recently I brought home a very nice MAC CD/SACD player to audition and hooked it to my preamp so I could switch between my beloved CD player and the new one to compare.  I didn't have another pair of MIT ICs so I hooked it up using a pr. of Eichmann ICs, reputed to be pretty good cables.  I was very disappointed with the new player's sound because my old player kicked it's butt.  Just so I could be comparing apples and apples, I rewired the new player with the MITs and the difference was not subtle, trust me.  I bought the new player.  Now...I am 60 yrs. old, a retired EE so I have much older listening instruments plus am operating on a fixed income.  If I didn't hear a difference I would not have ponied up the $$ that's for sure.  I had the same revelation 20 yrs. ago when I A/B's monster speaker cable and MIT shotgun.  I will NEVER pay $5K for speaker cable nor will I pay more than $500 for ICs but to say they all sound alike is simply not true.  I just took delivery on a new pr. of VR4 SR MKIIs and am running the VSA speaker cable.  It sounds very good but when I get everything broken in (VR4s + MAC electronics) I will A/B the VSA cable with my old MIT biwire and will post the results here.  Of course who's going to hang their hat on a listening test performed by a guy with one foot in the nursing home. 

[stewie]

es347,

I don't doubt that, at the extremes, cables and ics can sound different. But cables that have the same--or close to the same-- RLC (resistance, capacitance, inductance; the explanation isn't for you, ES!) characterstics, and similar shielding, will sound the same. In any case, getting accurate cables isn't rocket science, and therefore shouldn't cost as much as a Saturn V (you'll get that reference, es). High-end manufacturers can certainly play around with RLCs, and again, at extremes, get different sounds, but that shouldn't be confused with accuracy. Accuracy, where audio cables are concerned, is inexpensive, or should be. Cheers.

[JackD201]

Just last night I felt there was something "not right" with the Unifield 3 setup. While alrready sounding very good and quite open up top I felt that the output of the amps (Lamm ML1.1 tube m'blocks) seemed low. I swapped out the Brit cables with the VSA Signature's progenitor the Verbatims and suddenly the flow of the signal improved so much over the entire frequency range that the increase in power delivery resulted in my bringing the volume controls down 3 notches per side.

So, do cables make a difference? If it can make a $23,000 amplifier sound like it has 40% more juice on tap along with the ease and impact of the presentation that follows from there then I'd say the price I paid for the Verbatims was well worth the money. My question now is whether or not the VSA cables are as good as the prototypes they were based on. If they are as tonally neutral as the verbatims and are as efficient in passing on the signal. I'm onboard.

[es347]

es347,

I don't doubt that, at the extremes, cables and ics can sound different. But cables that have the same--or close to the same-- RLC (resistance, capacitance, inductance; the explanation isn't for you, ES!) characterstics, and similar shielding, will sound the same. In any case, getting accurate cables isn't rocket science, and therefore shouldn't cost as much as a Saturn V (you'll get that reference, es). High-end manufacturers can certainly play around with RLCs, and again, at extremes, get different sounds, but that shouldn't be confused with accuracy. Accuracy, where audio cables are concerned, is inexpensive, or should be. Cheers.

Resistance, capacitance and inductance are negligible in a 3 ft. length of cable or so it would seem to me but what do I know.  MIT commits audiophile heresy by putting a "black box" in the signal path.  When I first read their "white paper" way back during Lincoln's second term I was abhorred.  They can't expect me to buy their speaker cable with some sort of device in the signal path much less a device whose contents is top secret.  Then I listened to a pr. of their terminator bi-wires (dumb name) and was pretty much hooked.  They sounded different for sure....but they sounded better.  I couldn't stop there, replacing my ICs as well.  I still don't buy their "scientific" explanation of using "multipole network" technology.  For the time being it shall remain smoke and mirrors but I'll be darned if it doesn't work.  I guess ignorance can at times be blissful.  I am with you stewie regarding price.  They can reel me in for say $500 on ICs or perhaps even a grand on speaker cables but the notion that they can charge $28K for a pr. of their oracle speaker cables is insulting, but there are lots of folks out here buying them.  I suppose if they can afford it, who are you and I to complain.  I will say this however, if you invest in a pr. of VR9-SEs and run monster cable, you may as well put uniroyals on a Ferrari.  My VR4s aren't top-of-the line but don't deserve uniroyals either.  When the dust settles, they will be sporting either VSA bi-wires or MITs...count on it.

Happy listening...and lighten up a bit  

[msm_1]

Hi

I can't wait till my dealer gets some of those in to try!!

I now have a 8' pair of MIT T2 running a pair of Classe DR-8's, but picked up a 16' pair of bi-wired Red Dawns that I received from my dealer at very good deal but still NOT cheap ( and I was lucky enough to try a 3m pair of Odins!!! ). The other night I tried using the Dawns with only one Classe DR-8 and was impressed, so I can only imagine what the VSA cables will be like!!

Now to talk to the bank!! LOL

Thanks

Mike

[stewie]

Just last night I felt there was something "not right" with the Unifield 3 setup. While alrready sounding very good and quite open up top I felt that the output of the amps (Lamm ML1.1 tube m'blocks) seemed low. I swapped out the Brit cables with the VSA Signature's progenitor the Verbatims and suddenly the flow of the signal improved so much over the entire frequency range that the increase in power delivery resulted in my bringing the volume controls down 3 notches per side.

I assume you'll agree that the Verbatims can give you no more than what's coming out of your Lamms. That is, if you were to hook the outputs of your Lamms up directly to the speaker posts on the UNI 3s you'd have reached maximum neutrality and efficiency. Let's say that the Verbatims are pretty much matching the direct hook-up. That isn't that hard to do over 8 ft of cable--not hard at all, in fact, and very simple tests would confirm it. (And it can be done, by the way, for less than $100.) The real question is, what's wrong with your Brits that they're sucking up 40% of your signal?   

[JackD201]

Just last night I felt there was something "not right" with the Unifield 3 setup. While alrready sounding very good and quite open up top I felt that the output of the amps (Lamm ML1.1 tube m'blocks) seemed low. I swapped out the Brit cables with the VSA Signature's progenitor the Verbatims and suddenly the flow of the signal improved so much over the entire frequency range that the increase in power delivery resulted in my bringing the volume controls down 3 notches per side.

I assume you'll agree that the Verbatims can give you no more than what's coming out of your Lamms. That is, if you were to hook the outputs of your Lamms up directly to the speaker posts on the UNI 3s you'd have reached maximum neutrality and efficiency. Let's say that the Verbatims are pretty much matching the direct hook-up. That isn't that hard to do over 8 ft of cable--not hard at all, in fact, and very simple tests would confirm it. (And it can be done, by the way, for less than $100.) The real question is, what's wrong with your Brits that they're sucking up 40% of your signal?   

Oh so true. Much has been said about how cables sound. I always say they don't. They're there to let the signal through as efficiently as possible. One thing for sure and I totally agree with you, is that cables don't ADD anything so they've gotta be subtracting things. More bass just means the cables are attenuating the highs and mids. Same goes for any other part of the spectrum that gets "improved". The Brits are pretty even sounding across the board so in an A/B one might surmise as I did that they were pretty darned good cables. Turns out the Brits were subtracting evenly but subtracting in total none the less.

So what gives? There are a lot of cables out there and most manufacturers design their cables to have a "house sound" in effect rendering cables as tuning devices. From a scientific stand point I find this practice questionable but from a business stand point these companies do fill needs of many audio enthusiasts. Let's say I have mixed feelings about the practice of cable rolling.

Going back to measurements. It doesn't mean that zipcord's sound can be determined by just R,C and I tests no more than an amp's sound can be determined by RMS measurements alone. I'm willing to bet that 2 cables with identical RCI using different geometries and di-electrics can still sound very different even under blind test conditions in a system one is very, very familiar with.

So yes the Verbatims which were the predecessors of the VSA Cables definitely do transmit the signals more efficiently. To test this I did the same comparison against 3 well known cables using a 2a3 SET amp into VR-1s. Same thing. The VR-1s sounded perceptibly louder yet more balanced and refined with the Verbatims. Not a surprise really since they are made from military radar transformer windings. What better way to link a tranny to a binding post than tranny windings? I'm not claiming the Verbatims are the ultimate just that from all the cables I tried they have been the least subtractive. My question is really whether the VSA cables are an improvement over the Verbatims which are now close to impossible to find especially in their jumper configuration.

I heard the CES system that used the VSA cables early this year but since it was my first time to hear the VR-4 Anniversaries and Audio Space amplification I could not ascertain what their contributions were. The only way is for me to get a set and hear them in my own systems. If they are even just as good I will carry them, no doubt about it. At this point my criteria for comparison is gain (both perceived and measured to make sure I'm not fooling myself) and the amount and quality of harmonic texture and detail (subjective).

[jrun]

I too have the $2500 VSA 8ft bi wire to my VR4srMkI. These cables made a very audible difference when first hooked up and the sound improved slightly over the next 200 hours or so.  Unlike many of you I don't have lots of experience with high end cables.  I was also very skeptical when first investigating speaker cables and interconnects, but the acid test for me is my wife (who is not the least bit interested in audio gear), she was not home when I installed the VSA speaker cables.  I had the system going when she came home.  When she walked into the room, the first thing she said was "what did you change?"  She thought the system definitely sounded better.  I have since changed my mind and I have upgraded interconnects and tubes with significant improvement in my system.

[Delacroix]

Well I hate to give this article much more attention but this has got to be one of the most irrelevant comparisons of audio interconnects that I've read -- it does not cover VSA cables but it does suggest expense and improvements are positively correlated. You are warned, this may increase your blood pressure

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/1108/cables_galore2.htm

[stewie]

Hilarious review. I especially love the manufacturer's comments--"Thanks Phil!" Yes, thanks Phil, for informing our potential customers that they'll need to shell out as much as 7k for cables (!) to get everything they can out of their audio equipment. I say that Phil Gold couldn't distinguish between _any_ of those cables--that's right, not a one--in a double blind test. There are, thankfully, a few good souls out there willing to test their ears. Here's one of the few double blind tests of which I'm aware: they're testing power cords, and the results are, as expected, bad news for the cable industry. 

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_4/feature-article-blind-test-power-cords-12-2004.html

[Pondfish]

agree completely with Stewie...
Larry

[es347]

The cable debate will go on forever but let me throw my hat into the ring.  It's my opinion that speaker cable makes a greater difference than ICs.  I "invested" in rather expensive XLR ICs if for no other reason to get the more substantial (positive) connections they afford.  They sound great but then compared to what?  I can say without reservation that I did compare my old MIT 330+ ICs to the Eichmann Express 4s and heard a difference which was not subtle.  The same two cables A/B with lesser electronics may have sounded more alike, who knows, but in my MAC system there was a distinct difference.  The old MITs are single ended and my new ones are the XLRs.  I also A/B the VSA speaker cable with my old MIT Term.2 bi-wire.  The MIT cable definitely is equalizing the signal.  In some overly bright systems the MIT cable has it's place although it may smooth things at the price of restricting dynamics.  I also ran bi-wired using generic Belden 14 ga. speaker wire, the same stuff I used throughout the house and in my HT.  It actually sounded better than the MIT but not as dynamic as the VSA cable.  The VSA cable is not inexpensive.  Is it worth the cost to upgrade from the cheap stuff?  I'll use my previously used analogy: would you put uniroyals on a Ferrari?  The VR4 SRs deserve a decent cable, even a great cable.  But beyond rationalization, if you can find a cable that allows everything passage to the speakers, that's about all you can ask for.  I don't profess to understand cable physics but even if I fully did, I'd go with higher end cables.

[JackD201]

There is a school of thought that the entire reproduction chain is one large circuit. If one were to subscribe to this, would it be so difficult to believe any part may be the weakest link, cables included? Among my circle of audio buddies are builders and restorers. Choice of hook up cable inside their creations is a major design decision that makes great differences in the final outcome. Even the type of solder used is. We're talking about very short cable runs, some sending small signals and some very high voltages to the plates. So it makes me wonder why there is even any debate on the issue when it comes to performance. There WILL be differences. These differences may be musically irrelevant or profound. Meaning to say they may be unimportant, better or worse. What throws a wrench in the machine is when dollar signs enter the discussion.

Where there are Giants there are Giant Killers. We all love the underdog. They give us the most for least. Not all under dogs are winners though. Some are just dogs. Loudspeakers are all motors whether they be ribbons, stats or dynamic drivers. Just as a synchronous turntable motor requires the right voltage and frequency to operate properly so does a speaker driver. The cable is analogous to a fuel line. No Juice, No Go. Drivers designed like Gavin describes need clean , free flowing fuel. Hi end dynamic drivers are light and stiff driven by large coils and supporting magnet structures and spiders. For them to behave properly they need both clean electricity to both push and damp their motions. A typical midrange driver must produce 2kHz to 70kHz and in moving back and forth produce the most important audio band. They are like Formula One race cars. Again, light,stiff with a heck of a motor out back.

Cables that transmit unsatisfactorily is akin to a bent and dirt fuel line supplying dirty gas into a high compression race engine. Something has got to give.

It is pricing that creates the distortions. On the extreme one might try to make a 24 karat solid core 12 gauge speaker cable, sheath it in virgin silk and maybe inlay a few gems while they're at it. We all know how that's going to sound against copper wire of the same gauge. Gold only conducts at about .45 and copper at almost .60.  It just makes it impossible to justify what you pay for in this instance. Silk and Gems included. Turn the equation around and you'd get better conduction/transmission for a fraction of the price.

It gets worse when companies attach high prices without performance to back 'em up. Worse yet are companies that buy bulk cables and simply re-brand them with a slick campaign and pretty packaging. This happens a LOT. Legitimate cable manufacturers spend hundred if not thousands of paying man hours for research and development to come out with products designed for specific applications. That application being to build a cable that in the end makes listening pleasurable whether they essentially be attenuators or all out assaults on getting as much through as possible.  It's a free market and I believe the designers, engineers and factory workers should be able to be paid for their output. These types of cable makers should be able to pass those costs on to the customer. Some production processes can be very expensive indeed in both factory run times and or manual labor. I feel these guys should be allowed to price cables the way they like with the natural limiting factor being whether the market accepts their endeavors at the price they've chosen. If yes then congratulations. If not, back to the drawing board or perhaps a change in careers might be in order.

So. Since it is we the buyers who decide what goes in our homes, being ultimately responsible for making the VERY PERSONAL value judgements that may or may not result in the meeting of minds, why is it any of our business to question the guys that make them and the guys take them.

It all boils down to this. If you like them and can afford them buy it. If you like them but can't either save up or get something else. If you just flat out don't like them, never let anybody twist your arm. Just say no.   

[es347]

Jack, I couldn't have said it better...in fact, I didn't