Are Blu-Ray's the worst?

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Tyson

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Re: Are Blu-Ray's the worst?
« Reply #40 on: 7 Mar 2022, 08:56 pm »
I assumed, since this thread's subject line ended with a question mark, Folsom was asking the question if Blu-rays on average have bad sound (the answer is no they don't).

I am not familiar with the components in Folsom's system except for the ZenWave interconnects but it appears that they do not work very well with Blu-ray sound reproduction. His home theater system may be different than the system in his profile but so far this is all we have to go on.

Folsom's System Overview - Components: Digital Source - Bel Canto CD1, Analog Source - JVC QL-7 modified, Preamp - Chinese DACT w/Kuarlotron, Power Amp - TDA7297 / EC7293 (Folsom designs), Speakers - Experimental Research speakers, Speaker Cable - Canare 4S11, Interconnects - DIY / ZenWave.

I would like to read more about Tyson's 2-channel setup, he seems to have cracked the code on how to get excellent sound from a Blu-ray. Some Blu-ray players may do 2-channel better than others which would be good to know and help other people who are having the same dialog problem.

Slightly off topic but related, I was wondering if streaming movies have better 2-channel dialog. Sure the picture isn't as good as a Blu-ray but if watching a DVD to hear the dialog then the picture quality point may be moot.


For me it's the main speakers that make the most difference.  If you have speakers with good clarity, then that's the biggest step toward getting good 2 channel sound from Blu Rays (and 4k discs).

NIGHTFALL1970

Re: Are Blu-Ray's the worst?
« Reply #41 on: 7 Mar 2022, 09:53 pm »
I think Folsom has a point. I have Magnepan 1.7s and AVA gear and watch blu-rays in stereo. I also have a very hard time understanding dialogue of movies and TV. When watching The Blacklist I think the “background music” is louder than the dialogue.

Folsom

Re: Are Blu-Ray's the worst?
« Reply #42 on: 7 Mar 2022, 10:01 pm »
My use of discs right now is not in a fixed setup. And no components listed are in anything to do with a disc player. (list is exceptionally dated as well, sorry, I haven't updated anything in forever)

The situation that I'm looking at is no different than anyone else's with a TV that is nice. They aren't going to be buying speakers, a soundbar is the absolute limit. And while soundbars leave plenty to be desired they are more than capable of dialog, except with these very low quality mixes.

Freo-1

Re: Are Blu-Ray's the worst?
« Reply #43 on: 7 Mar 2022, 10:07 pm »
I think Folsom has a point. I have Magnepan 1.7s and AVA gear and watch blu-rays in stereo. I also have a very hard time understanding dialogue of movies and TV. When watching The Blacklist I think the “background music” is louder than the dialogue.


When I assign HDMI audio to the TV, and use the Optical out from the TV to the stereo,  dialog from the movies is fine.  Even at 48Khz, it still sounds very good.


Has the OP tried this?  If so, what was the outcome?

Tyson

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Re: Are Blu-Ray's the worst?
« Reply #44 on: 7 Mar 2022, 10:30 pm »

When I assign HDMI audio to the TV, and use the Optical out from the TV to the stereo,  dialog from the movies is fine.  Even at 48Khz, it still sounds very good.


Has the OP tried this?  If so, what was the outcome?

That's a good point - I also don't use HDMI audio output, I use coaxial or optical output from my bluray player. 

Freo-1

Re: Are Blu-Ray's the worst?
« Reply #45 on: 7 Mar 2022, 10:35 pm »
That's a good point - I also don't use HDMI audio output, I use coaxial or optical output from my bluray player.


Ah. I always use HDMI out.   I run HDMI 1 to the TV.  I run HDMI 2 through a Kanex Pro, which allows hi res to be received via coaxial to the DAC.


However,  in this case, just reassign HDMI audio to the TV.   The optical TV out to the stereo provides decent 2 channel audio,  down mixed.

NIGHTFALL1970

Re: Are Blu-Ray's the worst?
« Reply #46 on: 8 Mar 2022, 01:52 am »
I don’t run any audio to the TV. The Panasonic 9000 allows me to mute the TV. I use Coax to my AVA DAC. Then the 2 channel audio goes to the amp. Whenever possible I set the blu-ray’s audio to stereo. The menu on the Blacklist shows 5.1. I don’t see any option to change it to 2 channel. That might solve the mumbling dialogue. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Phil A

Re: Are Blu-Ray's the worst?
« Reply #47 on: 8 Mar 2022, 02:39 am »
I don’t run any audio to the TV. The Panasonic 9000 allows me to mute the TV. I use Coax to my AVA DAC. Then the 2 channel audio goes to the amp. Whenever possible I set the blu-ray’s audio to stereo. The menu on the Blacklist shows 5.1. I don’t see any option to change it to 2 channel. That might solve the mumbling dialogue. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Freo's post noted about the Kanex Pro.  There's threads here about HDMI audio de-embedders - e.g.  https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=82217.0

NIGHTFALL1970

Re: Are Blu-Ray's the worst?
« Reply #48 on: 8 Mar 2022, 04:05 am »
Thanks Phil! That is a lot to read through!👀

charmerci

Re: Are Blu-Ray's the worst?
« Reply #49 on: 8 Mar 2022, 04:38 am »
My question is, are you running the audio from the BR to the TV and then to your audio system? (Maybe I missed that) Or are you running the audio directly from the BR player into the audio system? Which is what I do albeit from my DVD player.

NIGHTFALL1970

Re: Are Blu-Ray's the worst?
« Reply #50 on: 8 Mar 2022, 04:54 am »
The audio goes directly to the DAC. Just the video goes to the TV.

Barry_NJ

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Re: Are Blu-Ray's the worst?
« Reply #51 on: 8 Mar 2022, 04:47 pm »
So, I just ran a quick experiment in my Living Room system...
This system consists of a Sharp Aquos LC-60E77UN fed via HDMI from a Sharp BD-HP210U (both are about 14 years old). The variable audio out L&R from the TV feed an Onkyo TX-8555 stereo receiver, feeding some older Kef-Q50 towers (about 27 years old), and a RCA PRO-SW200P sub-woofer. The TV kind of functions as a pre-amp, and the Onkyo is pretty much just an amp. The volume on the Onkyo is set to 60 and doesn't get touched. My main source for this system is a Roku Streaming Stick Ultra connected to one of the HDMI inputs on the TV, I really don't use the disc player here, but I have it, so it's plugged into another HDMI port on the TV. So, in short, this system is far from "Audiophile" or "Videophile" in nature but serves its purpose well...
Now I didn't try multiple movies, or even watch the whole film, just some sampling from the first chapter of a film on the two different discs. I used the film Inception, Nolan's films are known for poorly intelligible dialog, and without a doubt, the sound from the BRD, dialog and all, was far superior to that of the sound from the DVD. Dialog was definitely more crisp and intelligible on the BRD.

charmerci

Re: Are Blu-Ray's the worst?
« Reply #52 on: 9 Mar 2022, 02:26 pm »
The audio goes directly to the DAC. Just the video goes to the TV.


I was asking the OP, Folsom.  8)

Folsom

Re: Are Blu-Ray's the worst?
« Reply #53 on: 10 Mar 2022, 01:23 am »
My question is, are you running the audio from the BR to the TV and then to your audio system? (Maybe I missed that) Or are you running the audio directly from the BR player into the audio system? Which is what I do albeit from my DVD player.

Blu-Ray player > HDMI > TV .

That is 95% of what I am doing. It’s too complicated to tear down a stereo every time I set up for watching a movie with my father (can’t leave the TV due to his condition).

But when I (rarely) play them on a 2 channel system at home with more gain, they still sometimes are mixed extremely poorly. That is Blu-Ray > HDMI > TV > RCA > amp.

The output on TV’s is typically for headphones (analog). I cannot imagine the hell that is wearing headphones and you crank it to hear dialog then some other sound that comes in and murders the shit out of your ear drums.

Tyson

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Re: Are Blu-Ray's the worst?
« Reply #54 on: 10 Mar 2022, 01:27 am »
Get a bluray player with optical or RCA digital output.

Freo-1

Re: Are Blu-Ray's the worst?
« Reply #55 on: 10 Mar 2022, 04:05 am »
Blu-Ray player > HDMI > TV .

That is 95% of what I am doing. It’s too complicated to tear down a stereo every time I set up for watching a movie with my father (can’t leave the TV due to his condition).

But when I (rarely) play them on a 2 channel system at home with more gain, they still sometimes are mixed extremely poorly. That is Blu-Ray > HDMI > TV > RCA > amp.

The output on TV’s is typically for headphones (analog). I cannot imagine the hell that is wearing headphones and you crank it to hear dialog then some other sound that comes in and murders the shit out of your ear drums.


Does the TV have an optical output?  I understand your issue,  and using the digital out from the TV to the 2 channel amp works well with downmix.

Carlman

Re: Are Blu-Ray's the worst?
« Reply #56 on: 11 Mar 2022, 02:55 pm »
I also take care of my old man's TV needs and they must also be simple to use (and for me to support).
If I had to guess...  there never really was a problem to solve here, just to say 'yup, it sucks' and move on.

However, is nice/valuable and much appreciated to see others experiment and offer advice for people that might be learning from this and want to setup a 2 or 2.1 audio system for movies/blu-ray. You are all an inspiration in positivity! :)

Folsom

Re: Are Blu-Ray's the worst?
« Reply #57 on: 12 Mar 2022, 05:18 am »
I also take care of my old man's TV needs and they must also be simple to use (and for me to support).
If I had to guess...  there never really was a problem to solve here, just to say 'yup, it sucks' and move on.

However, is nice/valuable and much appreciated to see others experiment and offer advice for people that might be learning from this and want to setup a 2 or 2.1 audio system for movies/blu-ray. You are all an inspiration in positivity! :)

The problem is that Blu-Ray mixers do a shit job. It doesn't have to be this way as shown with several movies.

Carlman

Re: Are Blu-Ray's the worst?
« Reply #58 on: 12 Mar 2022, 12:47 pm »
Yup.. CD mixers do a bad job too... It's a shame because some of my favorite music was not mixed in a way that makes it easy to enjoy.

Folsom

Re: Are Blu-Ray's the worst?
« Reply #59 on: 14 May 2022, 06:12 am »
Watching North by NorthWest on Blu-Ray. I have volume in more than double for dialog. Another shit mix.