AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Hollis Audio Labs => Topic started by: HAL on 24 Apr 2016, 12:10 pm
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The Danville Signal Processing, Inc. dspMusik 2x8 digital processor and HiRez DAC is an Analog Devices SHARC based DSP processor with four Wolfson Micro WM8742 HiRez DAC's running at 24bit/192KHz for all inputs. It uses the Analog Devices Adaptive Sample Rate Converter designed by Bob Adams at AD in it's most complete form. All signals are processed in PCM format by the floating point DSP. All internal signal processing is done with 40 bit floating point precision.
The system is limited to two stereo input channels, but the A/D's can be driven by any balanced or single ended source with the correct adapters. There is no multichannel decoding, but can be run after a surround sound processor via the analog inputs.
The system has stereo A/D converters, USB2 and S/PDIF coaxial inputs for source inputs. There are eight balanced output DAC output channels that can be assigned in the software to anything needed. The software allows the user to control all the parameters of the system in real-time with display selection like DAC 32bit digital volume control to drive amps directly.
The MS-3 Music Server hosts both the Foobar2000 music playback software and the Audio Weaver user interface to the dspMusik. This is a fully integrated system. If the user runs Room EQ Wizard with a calibrated mic, like the Dayton Audio UMM-6, the speaker and room measurements use the dspMusik as the output source. This way the measurements are through the digital crossover running on the dspMusik.
Since software like Math Audio room and speaker correction run on the MS-3 PC, they can also be integrated into the system. Have also tried Dirac Live demo and that worked as well.
For totally digital source files, the MS-3 runs Foobar2000 directly into the ASIO driver for the dspMusik directly to power amps connected to the speaker drivers.
One goal of the overall design was to have improved sound quality over the Behringer DCX2496 with improved capabilities. The Wolfson WM8742 DAC's running at 24bit/192KHz met this goal to the listeners who tested the unit. Audio Weaver is very flexible and with the capability to define Butterworth and Biquad filters, can be made to do just about any crossover idea.
If anyone has questions on the dspMusik, this will be a good thread to discuss them. I will post pictures of the user interface and system.
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The measurement system for the ACA LS-9 speakers passive crossover testing is at the customers house.
When he has everything to get the crossover external to the cabinets, he will be making the measurements required to do the digital crossover design.
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Hi Rich,
There is a new XMOS USB chip out now. Will Danville be incorporating it into the future version of dspmusik package?
You once mentioned over on audionervosa that they were working on 32bit 768k version, any news on that front?
Does it have enough processing power to run three way XO and a few contour EQs using all FIR filters to play 24/96 files?
Does your HAL version of dspMusik look like the package shown on Danvile's website? In the extruded aluminum box?
What is the price for MS-3 + dspMusik with AudioWeaver installed? How much for MS-3 alone?
Thanks
Rich
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Rich,
There is a revD version of the dspMusik in design. Time frame is TBD. I will let everyone know once I do.
This new rev will have the new XMOS USB chip for HiRez input. The inputs will still be sent to the ADSRC to process everything at 24bit/192KHz. I will not know what rates will be fully supported until it is complete.
I have run 4-way digital crossovers with the existing dspMusik running at 24bit/192KHz. I have run a considerable number of EQ's, crossovers and delays with lots of processing left over. Only limitation is doing time delays over 15' for two channels runs into the amount of memory available on the ADSP21479. That will be solved with the higher power ADSP21469 coming as an upgrade with the new XMOS chip.
The only version of the dspMusik available is the one in the 1/2 rack size aluminum box, that is on the Danville website. That is pictured in the original thread in this circle.
The HAL MS-3 with dspMusik with both Audio Weaver and Room EQ is $2299.00 + s/h. The stock HAL MS-3 is $799.00 + s/h. Larger internal SSD's for music libraries are available as increased cost options.
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Thanks Rich
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Some folks are discussing crossing over BG Neo8's to Magnepan planars.
From seeing Neo8 measurements would think they would want at least a 4 pole butterworth filter at the XO point.
That would be close to 8 poles with the drivers response and keep everything the same polarity at crossover point. All depends on the in baffle measurements and LF cutoff with the drivers. Dropping down to 2 poles, probably needs the Neo8 driver polarity reversed, and going to have some non-flat response through the crossover point.
Just a thought.
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On 30 June there will be a Danville Signal announcement about the dspMusik 2x8 system.
Stay tuned to this Bat Channel for more info as I have it.
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Another part of the dspMusik concept is to eliminate all linear phase filtering from the digital crossover path. From the USB input to the DAC output, there are no linear phase filters in the DC coupled, balanced signal path.
For anyone reading the information from Bob Stuart at Meridian Audio about MQA, these are the same ideas he is using.
To complete this system, a minimum phase ADC module is in build and will be in testing shortly. The DAC's in use have always had minimum phase filters in use by choice for the Wolfson Micro WM8742 DAC's.
This is unlike any other DSP based digital crossover out there for audio and the reason for the improved sound quality of the system. This is not something that MiniDSP, DCX2496, or other entry level digital crossovers can do.
As part of these ideas, all microphones and speaker drivers are minimum phase devices. There is nothing in nature that is a non-causal filter like a linear phase filter.
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Hi - has anyone used the dspMusik for driving a Linkwitz Lxmini? I thought this speaker was a good first build, but I was looking for a higher quality dac than the digital crossovers commonly used with it.
Thanks, John
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John,
Sorry, had not seen this question.
To date no one has tried the dspMusik with a Linkwitz Lxmini.
If the electrical crossover parameters are available to design a digital crossover for the speakers, I can do a version and send with the MS-3 and dspMusik demo system for trials.
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Just a note to the LXmini owner. The electrical transfer curves for your speakers are the intellectual property of Siegfried Linkwitz and should not be shared with others who have not purchased plans.
http://www.linkwitzlab.com/LXmini/Construction.htm (http://www.linkwitzlab.com/LXmini/Construction.htm)
"Note: All material is copyrighted and for the personal, non-commercial use by the person who bought it from LINKWITZ LAB.
It may not be passed on in any form for use by others. | Terms & Conditions (http://www.linkwitzlab.com/LX521/Terms%20&%20Conditions.htm) |"
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There is the answer to the question. If users want to DIY then that is all that can be done.
Mr. Linkwitz had no interest in discussing it last year, so I take it that the challenge he posted is over. To bad as time marches on and technology gets better.
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@Hal:
- You seem to be misinterpreting SL's challenge. (This isn't the first time).
- The dspMusik (danvillesignal (http://danvillesignal.com)) may be actually be in use by a Linkwitz design owner. Perhaps you mean you just have not sold one?
- For a number of reasons, the OPLUG (http://oplug-support.org) is probably the better place to discuss Linkwitz designs.
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lowtech,
Since I was asked, and I have the only available dspMusik demo system, I responded.
Danville will sell people a system to use. I set one up and let people listen to it to decide before buying. That is based on doing the crossover and testing it before going to the demo. Since I do not have the data, no crossover will be made.
At this point it is no longer a discussion item.
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The dspMusik RevD firmware is here for listening tests. The first version is burned into the demo unit. Have three different DAC filter configurations to test for selection of the final filter to use for extended listening trials.
The RevD system is extendable to 16 channels with new dspBlocks in design. This will make the 14 channels of DAC output needed for the open baffle line array beamforming system possible.
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You are doing some interesting stuff, Rich. Keep it coming.
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Chuck,
Thanks!
This should get very interesting. This is the version of the system with the minimum phase ADC module to complete the concepts targeted toward better analog source sound.
More once I know the selections to use.
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The initial testing of the new dspMusik ADC module has gone very well. Did some recordings of voice and guitar to check and very clean sounding with a simple recording setup.
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The final version of the dspMusik RevD beta units will be here tomorrow.
After beta testing, will be moving the first on into The Megaliths speaker setup for trials.
That unit will be going to Colorado for listening trials with THROWBACK's LS-9 and servo sub setup.
A second unit maybe going for demos at RMAF2016. Stay tuned for more info on that possibility.
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The dspMusik RevD beta test systems have arrived and sounding very good in the system.
The new RevD system has 1 - AKM AK5397 ADC and 4 - AKM AK4459SEQ DAC's that have filter selections with multiple filters that are not linear phase. The ADC module at this time has a fixed minimum phase filter selection. The DAC's have 5 filter selections with three that are not linear phase. Will be doing listening trials with these over the next few weeks to get ready for CO demos.
Will be doing the first demo with Avoosl's VMPS RM50's tomorrow and then on to another one Saturday.
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The RevD version of the dspMusik adds the capability to use the stereo minimum phase 24bit/192KHz ADC output over USB. Recording and measuring programs can now access the system for use. This also extends use to the Home Studio area as it is an ASIO compliant USB driver.
There are already ideas for a calibrated mic to use via the ADC input for speaker and room correction with analog inputs. This is already possible with digital file replay when used in conjunction with the MS-3, Foobar2000 and Math Audio Room EQ which is preloaded on the system if you already have a Dayton Audio UMM-6 USB mic. The idea is to provide a higher quality A/D with the analog measurement mic for improved response with other software tools available.
As always, please leave questions for discussion.
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The demo with Avoosl's VMPS RM50 speakers using the full ADC to DAC and digital crossover capability went very well Friday.
The latest dspMusik system does analog very well with his Halo JC-2 preamp as the balanced source drive from his analog sources.
Using the USB and S/PDIF inputs yesterday with the Ono Audio Paka speaker system sounded excellent yesterday from both PC and MAC sources. They have a full HAL MS-3 and dspMusik RevD system for use at RMAF2016 in demo room 9019 at the Marriott.
The second HAL MS-3 and dspMusik RevD system will be used for other demos in CO.
Hope to see folks at the show.
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Sheesh! When do you sleep?
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The HAL 9000 does not require sleep.
(http://whatwillwedotoday.com/images/2013/03/HALquotes.006-e1363869879703.jpg)
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Scott,
Excellent!
Best,
Rich
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The dspMusik RevD demo system has returned from RMAF2016 and west coast travel.
Have one demo coming up once the date gets finalized and then start others after that.
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Doing my first in home demo of the HAL MS-3 and dspMusik RevD tomorrow afternoon. Same system that was at RMAF2016 in the Ono Audio room 9019.
The demo is for someone already demoing a MS-3 and dspMusik RevC now in his system. Should be an interesting listening session.
Also have plans set for anyone with a dspMusik RevC to upgrade them to RevD by swapping out units. They will be fully updated and tested at Danville Signal before shipping to the customer. Contact me for upgrade pricing.
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The dspMusik RevD demo went very well today. Dave has it in his setup in comparison to two other DAC's. Sounded very good to me today on his library of music we listened to.
As always, folks that hear dspMusik demos are welcome to post their comments in this thread.
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Next demo will be at woodsyi's on Sunday afternoon with the RevD unit in comparison to his RevC. This should be another fun afternoon of listening trials.
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Next demo will be at woodsyi's on Sunday afternoon with the RevD unit in comparison to his RevC. This should be another fun afternoon of listening trials.
How long will Dave have the RevD? Where does Woodsyi live?
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Dave has it until 27 November.
He lives about 5 miles from Dave.
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The dspMusik RevD is setup and running at woodsyi's in his system as both crossover and bass management system.
Looking forward to comments as they have time.
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The first dspMusik RevD system upgrade is being shipped today to replace a RevC system already in place at dpd's.
He should have it early next week to compare the two units before shipping back the RevC system.
He replaced a Benchmark DAC with the dspMusik RevC 2 years ago and never looked back. Will be interesting to hear his feedback on the RevD with the new ADC system as well.
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The dspMusik RevD upgrade unit is at its new home and getting installed.
The demo HAL MS-3 and dspMusik RevD have returned. Will be checking on its second trial trip shortly.
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The second dspMusik RevD is now running Forest Dwellers ACA built LS-9 speakers. He is replacing his RevC unit with the RevD unit that was at RMAF2016 and he heard in that system.
The update this week was that he is a happy listener. :)
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Hello HAL
Is there opamp on the output on the Dsp music ?
is there overall volume pot ? (no need for a preamp)
what is the price
is there a diy version
best regards
Bjarne
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Bjarne,
The dspMusik has opamps in the output filter stages.
The 8 channels of volume control are the DAC's internal digital volume controls with 0.5dB steps. Those are controlled by either the front panel rotary encoder or IR remote control for all channels.
The prices is $2000.00 + shipping with digital crossover code for your application.
There is no DIY version as far as hardware. The Audio Weaver software can be licensed from Danville Signal to program the unit if purchased to make changes to the application.
Best regards,
Rich Hollis
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hi HAL
hmmm not so good with opamps on output,,do not like the sound of those
same problem in my Groundsound dsp...tried several opamp but can not find any with the sound i like
now i use a updated ordinary normal Danny filter,,,it works super
the reason i ask about the Hal dsp is i am going to built 2 subwoofer with 2 Scanspeak 12 inch 30w ...there it will be nice to use all digital...but without opamp
it is really a great dsp you have...but
Best Bjarne
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Since the dspMusik has DC coupled balanced outputs, it works extremely well for subs. That is why I use it with my 6x12" OB H-Frame servo sub array and Rythmik HX800 servo amps that Danny helped me build.
Good luck with your quest.
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Next demo will be at woodsyi's on Sunday afternoon with the RevD unit in comparison to his RevC. This should be another fun afternoon of listening trials.
Last night I had Scottdazzle over and we were checking out my updated digital front. I got my micro Rendu hardware and firmware updated to 1.4 and got my EMM DAC2x updated to v2 which allows it to handle 2x DSD over DoP. Anyway we are listening and felt the mid-bass lacking. I was attributing the brightness to the newness of the updated electronics but it's been running for a week continuously. So I went into my digital crossover setup via, Audio Weaver (https://dspconcepts.com/solutions/audio-weaver), and checked the output on my midbass woofers. They were set -4db. It's the setting Rich and I figured to be the best as the RM40 speakers have a tendency to boomy in the crossover region - 4th order 80hz highpass and 1st order 309hz lowpass in my case -- with the overlap from the ribbons with 1st order highpass at 309Hz. We settled on +2db after overshooting and making it sound too dark. At +2db the male vocals from The Band filled in and both Mark Knofler and Emmylou Harris from All the Roadrunning sounded just right. Then we listen to vinyl to see if the bass is too much on analog source and the balance was still good at +2db. So the change was not needed for just the digital end. What happened?
I got to thinking why and then voila! :idea: I remembered that I just recently inserted this isolation transformer (https://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=details&O=&Q=&ap=y&c3api=1876%2C%7Bcreative%7D%2C%7Bkeyword%7D&gclid=CjwKCAiA6qPRBRAkEiwAGw4Sdsc09PykK2UZScjXBwM8RwXrQoKfraf_xOYmqXbFOxZc_GZ1N8BTqxoCZNcQAvD_BwE&is=REG&sku=1344638) between the eAR 1001 monos and the midbass woofers. I was getting a little ground loop hum from those woofers that I could not get rid of completely for a long time and this finally fixed it. Apparently it also reduced the output gain by 6db. :duh: Add back the 6db gain and everything was good again.
It's one of the virtues of dspMusic to be able to adjust poles, slope and gain on each channel. It absolutely came in handy. At some point in my audio journey I will probably go to a simple solution, but I have to tell you I love the on-the-fly ability to adjust each driver on an active crossover system. It does time delay on my rear subs to smooth out bass too. dspMusic is really good with bass management. :thumb:
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woodsyi,
Thanks for the update. Good to hear things are still going well with the dspMusik in the system. The flexibility really is great for system tuning. I really love mine!
Hope you have a wonderful Holiday Season!
Best,
Rich
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Forest Dweller has his dspMusikLCD 6x8 digital crossover system running with his ACA LS-9 line arrays and very happy with the results.
Waiting on feedback on analog inputs with his tape machine and tape library.