Just asked Danny at GR if he could mod my Middle-T crossovers

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whydontumarryit

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He said that he could improve my speakers. Should I let him? If no, why not?

Ron D

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As in Bryston Middle T speakers?

Are you the first owner? If so it will likely void the warranty. If not the 1st owner you have no warranty anyway - speaker warranties, unlike their other gear, are not transferable so it's up to you.

Different likely,  better is subjective = only your ears will decide

GrooveControl

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He said that he could improve my speakers.

Anyone can make that claim as any improvement is really just opinion.  A crossover change will definetly change the sound of the speaker.   If there is something you don't like about the sound, talk to Danny and make sure he knows where you're coming from. For example, you may find the mids too forward, but Danny may actually think the mids are too laid back, and you may end up worse off than you started.

You will probably kill the resale value of your speakers should you decide to sell them. 

I would play with positioning and room treatments first, even EQ, before modifying them.   

 

veloceleste

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You have to identify what you believe needs improvement or is a weakness in the speaker so there is a target for the alteration. I agree that you will achieve different and whether or not you like it is up to you.  Did you read the Bryston white paper on their speaker design philosophy that states what they were trying to achieve?
 

E-Zee

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Bryston middle T looks like an impressive speaker. I think it would be a very worthy candidate for improvement.  I've had quite a bit of experience with upgraded crossovers including redesigns by GR-Research and those experiences have all been positive. 

I disagree respectfully with any concerns about decreased resale value.  I've bought and sold many speakers and I've never seen a modified or updated speaker not be worth more.  We aren't talking about artist collectibles, antique coins,  or rare first edition books that have to be kept in original condition,  with vintage patina.  These are commercially produced, mass duplicated items.  Their value is in their reputation, function, and physical condition.  When you swap the speaker crossover for a newer redesigned or upgraded version you aren't canabalizing the original.  It can be reconnected at any time,  or it can even stay connected in stock position with the new crossover connected to a new and additional pair of binding posts.   Use original crossover through original binding posts or use new crossover through new binding posts.   Compare A to B, switching back and forth at your leisure.   A redesigned or upgraded crossover is only value added.   

Regarding warranty, that could be a valid concern but carefully look at warranty terms and consider even more strongly their reputation for support. Many are surprised by what warranty conditions are or how warranty issues are handled.   Opening a speaker cabinet does not equal voiding of all warranties. Often each item is considered individually.  If I open a cabinet to add bracing and I move some insulation around,  that's not going to prevent me from getting warranty service on a capacitor that leaks on the crossover board.  Manufacturer will ask for photo of board,  they will send me new board or ask that I send the original board for repair.  They don't care nor would they ever know that you altered the cabinet.   The same is true for drivers etc.  If you had to replace a tweeter or driver you aren't going to ship them the whole speaker cabinet. They might ask for some photos and description of the failure, or may even ask that the failed driver be shipped to them.  They will then negotiate for repair or replacement of that driver.  Maybe they swap it free, maybe they charge you $160 for the replacement driver.

Point is 1-It's not going to self-destruct because you modified it. 2- Very likely nobody would ever know of your modifications.  3- Even if they knew it often wouldn't matter.  4- The most important factor is the companies commitment to supporting their products, and your connection of an alternate crossover has very little to do with their warranty support.   If the company gives poor support they will try to avoid helping you no matter what. If the company gives great support they will try to help you no matter what.   

I can't answer those questions for you, its very company specific but don't be feared into thinking that speakers are some magic golden egg and once you crack the shell the warranty is voided. That simply isn't how it plays out in reality.  I've seen plenty of factory original speakers get no warranty support because they determine failure is use related and not a manufacturers defect.   I've seen modified speakers that do get warranty support,  because the company supports their product.  That is much more dependent upon the practices of the company, and not if you modify it or not.    Just my 2 cents for consideration.  Im not going to argue with anyone over these things,  I'm just sharing my experiences.  You can hear both sides and make your own decision.

Internet forums are full of parrots.  Someone heard someone else say that opening your speakers will void warranty and so they repeat it.  My experience is its not that simple and that warranties are often worthless, but never worth more than then the companies desire to support their customers.

Good luck with the decision. 

Elon

Elon@ezeescrossovers.com

MarvinTheMartian

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If the quality of your current Middle-T internal crossovers approaches the quality of the external Model-T Signature crossover described below ...
https://www.stereophile.com/content/brystons-model-t-speaker

All air-core inductors and custom Clarity caps is already an excellent start.
Danny will probably jump all over the sandcast resistors and add a couple of small value but physically large bypass caps in the mid & tweeter paths.

Throw in a couple of sheets of No Rez to tame the cabinet panel resonances at 500Hz  ( fig.2 )
https://www.stereophile.com/content/bryston-middle-t-loudspeaker-measurements

Shawn

Or go fully BAX-1 active : )
Shawn

whydontumarryit

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Yes, the signature outboard xover would do the job. Thanks.

MarvinTheMartian

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The Signature was the only picture of a Bryston crossover I could find online, nothing on the standard internal Middle-T crossover. 
Do you have a picture of the standard internal Middle-T crossover?
The vast majority of mainstream internal crossovers do not attain that Signature level quality.

Shawn
« Last Edit: 24 Sep 2022, 07:57 pm by MarvinTheMartian »

whydontumarryit

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The Signature was the only picture of a Bryston crossover I could find online, nothing on the standard internal Middle-T crossover. 
Do you have a picture of the standard internal Middle-T crossover?
The vast majority of mainstream internal crossovers do not attain that Signature level quality.

Shawn
No pics, the screw heads on the drivers are some type I have not seen before.
Maybe I can find used Sinatures for sale.
Thanks

MarvinTheMartian

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The external passive crossover I highlighted was specifically for the Model-T not the Middle-T and because of the different driver configurations probably not compatible, confirm with James-T.
It was a short lived product ( by Bryston standards : )  that was originally promoted as an intermediate step on the path to the fully active Model-T + Bax-1 + 21B(X2) system.

I simply meant it as an example of the high quality level of passive components that you should be considering.
Shawn

techguy0192

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Re: Just asked Danny at GR if he could mod my Middle-T crossovers
« Reply #10 on: 25 Sep 2022, 07:40 pm »
He said that he could improve my speakers. Should I let him? If no, why not?

Of course he said that.  Danny says that about every speaker, because selling parts and kits is his business.  Would the speakers be better or simply just different after his mods, that's the real question.  The Bryston speakers are very well designed and made; with a 20 year warranty, they're not putting junk parts inside the speakers. 
« Last Edit: 25 Sep 2022, 08:58 pm by techguy0192 »

whydontumarryit

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Re: Just asked Danny at GR if he could mod my Middle-T crossovers
« Reply #11 on: 26 Sep 2022, 08:59 pm »
Of course he said that.  Danny says that about every speaker, because selling parts and kits is his business.  Would the speakers be better or simply just different after his mods, that's the real question.  The Bryston speakers are very well designed and made; with a 20 year warranty, they're not putting junk parts inside the speakers.

Upon further investigation, it seems that the cult of personality is the primary motivation for the nonsense going on there, not Danny or Meerkat, taking advantage of an opportunity is capitalism 101 and I'm all for that.
Still it is a shame for those impressionable.