[bpape]

If you want to do something in the front other than what you have, low and wide is the best way.  The Hemps are kinda short so I'm not sure I'd do this.  In addition, it would seriously limit sub placement options.

That sub position is just a starting point.  Not having the mains cut off is going to cause some overlap so phase setting will be critical and can be used to tune things a little bit.  Also, the 2 xovers can be used to get sort of a 1 band EQ.  It'll take a lot of playing around but it's worth it.

Bryan

[Alwayswantmore]

Couple new things to report along with a few questions...

I moved the sub as Bryan recommended above. I also spent some time with the set-up CD making adjustments (by ear). The bass has improved considerably. The little 10" puts out meaningful bass at 30Hz, but still has a couple very audible peeks and valleys. Even with ACIs two-step crossover I could not smooth these out. At some point I may document the offending frequencies to see if anyone has suggestions on potential changes to flatten response.

I also stuffed wall insulation into plastic garbage bags to make temporary tricorners (pic below).



I hung the 42" Pioneer plasma yesterday in anticipation of Chad coming today to calibrate.

Bad news...

Call me crazy, but I'm convinced the TV impacts the sound. I'm pretty convinced I've lost some depth and air in the soundstage. The TV is hung at speaker heigth: 33" to center of screen. And projects 6 inches into the room (pic below).



Any suggestions? I am considering...

1.) Raising the TV on the wall, so it hangs above the top plane of the speakers. In a small room this will be pretty high for viewing, but the wall bracket has a 5 degree downward tilt option, so it may be a viable option.

2.) Cover the screen with a blanket or some other soft material.

3.) Move the speakers a few more inches into the room, to create more distance between the front baffle and the face of plasma (currently the driver centers are 3' 10" into the room measured from the WALL  -- while the TV projects 6" from wall).

4.) Rig a way to place my extra 242 in front of the TV for critical listening. The TV is low enough, the 242 on a stand might do the trick (although I have been using the 242 straddling the back corner (in front of the closet), and feel it helps 'de-clutter' the sound enough to be a benefit).

Ideas???

[bpape]

I'm afraid if you move the screen up too high, you'll find it uncomfortable to watch.  That said, the general rule of thumb (for larger screens anyway) is that your seated eye position is approx 1/3 up on the screen.

Using a blanket over the set is a common thing to do.  You can also DIY a stand to hang the 242 horizontally in front of the set if losing it in the rear corner doesn't impact other things.

Moving the speakers farther out will change bass response somewhat.  Might be good, might not be.  I'm just concerned that you're already very nearfield and this might be too much.  Doesn't hurt to experiment though.

Keep us posted.

Bryan

[Alwayswantmore]

Thanks Bryan, of the things you identified above, how would you stack rank them in terms of greatest potential to improve the sound?

BTW: Right now the TV is definitely lower than the 1/3rd eye level.

Also, when you gave guidelines for the sub position above "maybe 3/7ths of the room width along the front wall.  Maybe pull out 1' or so." Are you referring to the center of the sub, or the outer edge? May seem like spitting hairs, but...

Kent

[bpape]

3/7 is to the driver center.  The 1', I'd pull it out so the back edge of the cabinet is that far out.  You might also try putting it up on something to get it off the floor 6" to a foot. 

If it were me, I'd move it up to a comfortable level and then just throw a blanket over it.  The 242 depends on whether or not you notice a big difference with it out of the corner and where you're going to put it when you're watching.

Bryan

[Alwayswantmore]

3/7 is to the driver center.  The 1', I'd pull it out so the back edge of the cabinet is that far out. Bryan

That's what I did  Thanks again!

[Alwayswantmore]

... I forgot to ask...

I'm thinking about going 2 1/2 inch painted wood blinds for the windows (inside mount). From an acoustical standpoint is this about as good as I can do???

[bpape]

They'll offer some flexibility in sound for sure without deadening the room any more.  They'll allow you to play with the angle of the blinds for 2 channel listening to either reflect the sound up to the ceiling and around the room for a bit more life or down into the carpet.

Bryan

[pbrstreetgang]

Mount some "U" brackets sideways on the 242 so it hooks horizontally over the tv for easy install and removal

[max190]

Kent,
I would try and center and raise your sub up to the bottom of your tv.
Then I would order (3) more 242's.
Place (1) horizontally on top of the sub to cover the tv.
Place (2) vertically on the front wall behind each spkr.
Leave your spare to cover your closet corner.

If you find at times that material you are playing is either bass shy or bass heavy, you can use your entrance door into the room to adjust... Closing it may help with bass shy material, while opening it up a little may help with bass heaviness.

[Alwayswantmore]

Thanks for the ideas. I'm going to play around with what I have, then decide where to go next. The 'U's" are a good idea, as long as they're sufficiently padded so they don't scratch the bezel or screen.

[bpape]

Definitely play with sub positioning - but only in one dimension at a time so you can identify the differences.  The 3/7 was just a starting point.  Centered may or may not work.  Certainly, if you center it, it will most likely need to come farther into the room.

Bryan

[Alwayswantmore]

Got the 42" Pioneer Kuro Elite on as I type, and I'm watching a hairy beaver [on Discovery HD of course!!!]. Last nigh Chad B got his magic fingers on my set to perform ISF calibration, and the picture looks great.

I'm not a videophile, so ISF specs are foreign to me, but as far as I can tell Chad got the set almost perfectly aligned with the ISF standard. Before and after graphs below (note the B&A for contrast and blue in RBG tracking).

Chad's site... http://www.hdtvbychadb.com/display_types-direct_view.htm

For graphs, the red line represents the ISF standard, where the blue line is my set.

[Alwayswantmore]

I have an extra 242 (since I didn't do the ceiling). I put a small table in front of the TV, and played around with the 242 against the TV as well as out from the TV a foot or so (laid horizontally obscuring the TV surface area). My initial impression is the 242 helps the soundstage. I even think I like it out a foot or so, where it helps cut the angle for wall reflections, and probably extends a little deeper in terms of trapping.

I now listen with the closet door open in the back corner where the 242 had been placed. The closet is full of boxes and hanging clothes, so it probably helps a bit with reflections and bass trapping.

So far I see my experimentation as crude placements, in an attempt to see what works and what doesn't. Once I hone in on a favorable solution, I forsee going through a series of smaller adjustments to fine-tune the room.

I'm still very favorable on the improvements GIK made, and really enjoying the music in my new room.

Kent

[bpape]

Good deal using the closet.  Use everything at your disposal.  No sense in spending money when you don't have to. 

Absorbtion between the speakers is a lot of personal preference.  Some like it, some don't.  Personally, I think it helps focus things if your setup will allow it. 

Keep playing.  Every room is different.  Every setup is different.  The biggest thing you're learning is what impacts each small change makes, what you're tradeoffs are, etc.  That, IMO is critical to get your system performance maximized.

Bryan

[dorokusai]

I agree with Bryan, great thread. Kudos to the folks that can build a dedicated room around their gear but the best sound I've heard is from the worst enviroments possible.

Just keep playing around, you'll find the good stuff.

Mark

[Alwayswantmore]

I agree with Bryan, great thread. Kudos to the folks that can build a dedicated room around their gear but the best sound I've heard is from the worst environments possible.

Just keep playing around, you'll find the good stuff.

Mark

Thanks Mark -- it's an interesting paradox: The small room size works against me. Yet the flexibility to play with the room has enabled me to optimize what I have. While the sound will never be a 10, the nearfield listening position combined with GIKs panels has resulted in very good sound.

I intend to keep playing with positioning and adjustmentable settings -- like the sub. At some point I will also do a nice paint job and add some minimal art to make the room look presentable.

[Alwayswantmore]

New house projects (i.e. painting) have kept me busy the past couple weeks, so only limited time to play in the media room.

Recent progress...

I've played a bit with Hemp (mains positioning). I' running them slightly more toe in -- but the drivers still connect BEHIND the listening area. The toe-in helps boost the highs a bit, needed to compensate for absorption created by the GIK panels.

My drivers sit low enough that I need to slouch in my listening chair to get my ears to their level. I picked up black granite bases cut to the exact size of the Hemps. The granite is polished on four edges plus the top, and looks like its part of the speaker. I placed thin plastic discs (about 5/8th inch diameter) on both the top and bottom of the granite to protect speakers / stands. The granite is about 1 1/14" deep, so the drivers are a little higher, which works out well.

I installed the granite sandwich last night. Because of the bulk, I have not attempted an A/B compare, but my first impression is the granite makes everything more solid. Acoustic bass feels a little tighter. Vocals slightly better localized, and on a favorite live cut featuring short clarinet and flute solos, the woodwinds feel slightly smoother and more rounded (this was the biggest surprise to me). The difference was not huge, and I need to go back a forth a time or two to make sure it's not just my imagination.

I hung the 242s horizontally on the side walls -- as well as the two Monsters -- again hung horizontally as a stacked pair on the back wall. So the temporay stands and folding chairs are now gone.

I continue to play with placement of the 'extra' 242, placed in front of the plasma (between the main speakers). I've still not decided what I like best, but lately I'm favoring a 'forward' placement, where the 242 is hung horizontally approximately at the back edge of the main speakers. I'll continue to play with this one to see what works best.

Here's a picture of the back of the Monster trap, so you get a feel for GIK's construction...



Still working on...

1.) I'm still looking for ways to get the drivers a bit higher (closer to ear level without crouching in my chair). I'm considering adding Mapleshade brass points either as footers for the stands, or possibly between the granite and the stand. The footers would easily add 2 - 2.5" to driver height.

2.) The horizontal Monsters -- when hung like pictures -- don't sit flush to the back wall. I've got them stacked to make a solid 4' x 4' square. I'm exploring ways to get a better fit to the wall (maybe "L" brackets?).

3.) Paint, conceiling the TV wiring and a number of items are still on the horizon, when time allows.

Take care, Kent

[Glenn K]

Just a FYI,
We just did a new video (ok our first EVER video) about mounting the panels in the corner. Even if you build some yourself you could mount them pretty much this way.
http://www.gikacoustics.com/ (in the news area on the front page)

Or

direct link to file:
http://www.gikacoustics.com/files/instructional_01.wmv

Enjoy!!!!!!!

Glenn

[Alwayswantmore]

I made a few comments in another thread and the discussion was moving off topic, so I've redirected the discussion to this thread.

The topic was my comments on lack of depth in my current set up. A little background...

My last listening room -- in a rental home -- the speakers were out from the back wall about 12 feet. While I still listened nearfield, their was much greater depth. On some cuts if felt like a performer was about 10 feet behind the front of the speakers. Now the most I get is maybe 3-4 feet back on some cuts. Center front in my new room is 3' 9" from back wall.

I have hung the 242 between the speakers from a stand, that suspends the panel without the need for a table. I tried moving the panel from just in front of the plasma, to just behind the back of the Hemps. After going through several rounds of positioning, I still prefer having the panels forward (just behind the back of the speakers).

Bryan gave me a lot of guidance on the current set up. He warned me that front to back depth would be hard to get in a small room. He also provided guidance on the current config in terms of nearfield and sub placement. [He said extream nearfield was probably my best option for getting good depth in my set up.]

I did a quickie moving the listening chair to the back wall. Honestly I didn't invest the time to play with other variables like toe-in, sub placement, etc. The results were not good, but I would need to spend a few hours playing with this to know if it might yeild any benefits.

BTW: For those who made the comments on nearfield, have you ever tried it -- especially with single drivers in a small room?

The sound is pretty amazing, so while I will continue to play with placement and other variables, even without a major step forward I'm in pretty good shape.

The only change I've made since my last post is the addition to 12X12" granite squares placed on top of the hemp's. The blocks are pushed back from the front edge by at least 3/4"to minimize problems with dispersion. I have the squares balanced on large 1/2" felt / hard foam pucks used to move large furniture on hardwood floors.

I've done two cycles of with and without the granite topper. The mass added by the granite adds slightly to the solidity of the image and improved detail. Not a major change, but there none the less. Kent