AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Enclosures => Topic started by: Crossoverless on 12 Aug 2016, 12:46 am
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Has anyone heard these speakers yet?
These Watkins Generation Four bookshelf speakers will not be sold at the Direct price of $1995 much longer because they will be going to Dealers soon! When the Dealers get them, the price will go up to $2995
http://www.watkinsaudio.com
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Not for me, its a monopole mini speaker, just 24 pounds, it emit sound only to front, the soundstage is faraway from an OB or planar.
Also it need a muscular amp(no SET tube amp:
Sensitivity: Above average at 88 dB at one meter with 1 watt input
Last chance is if its low priced($500/pair);
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ONE of the WORST WEBSITES on the INTERNET! ;)
(Where do you come up with this stuff?)
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That FR is crazy if true. Ya, bad website, and ditto.
No info given about the box, or price?
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A positive point is it dont have xover, just a cap :thumb:
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ONE of the WORST WEBSITES on the INTERNET! ;)
(Where do you come up with this stuff?)
I found it here...post number #330 on this page below...The guy that owns a pair of these Watkins bookshelf speakers on the AudioHolics forum said "he was SOLD when he first listened to them!" :P
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/which-brand-makes-the-best-quality-loudspeakers.74416/page-17
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Take it with a grain of salt if Gordon Holt said it was great. Gordon had very bad hearing. That was well known in the audio industry.:nono:
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That FR is crazy if true. Ya, bad website, and ditto.
No info given about the box, or price?
It looks crazy good because it's only an ON AXIS response, with probably a large degree of smoothing (i.e. it's just MARKETING). The reverberant field is over 90% percent of what you hear. Without serial off axis measurements every 5 degrees (up to 45 degrees) both vertically and horizontally you know absolutely NOTHING about the way this speaker sounds. Although having listened to enough of these types of two-ways, I have a pretty good guess.
I think CrossoverLess posts this stuff just to get people talking, since a lot of AC is really a male dominated soap opera ;)
Best,
Anand.
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Good points.
What I don't get is how no baffle speakers could go crossover deficient... they may have good attributes but the baffle needs to be large enough or you'll get massive roll off in midbass and heightened highs.
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I was looking around and found out that the guy that makes these bookshelf speakers is Bill Watkins!...the guy that made some of the speaker drivers for Infinity :o back in the good old days! :thumb: Some say some of these Infinity speakers are still some of the best speakers money can buy.. even today!! :P
http://iccbrabant.tripod.com/icc/id1.html
Here's more info here on the groups.google.com thread there...
http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/bill-watkins-thoughts-about-watkins-woofers-and-infinity.392847/
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Find out what they cost, order a pair, and let us know. If you're really into them maybe do a short tour?
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I sat in on a couple of listening sessions in Atlanta on a prototype WE-1 around 1980 (?). They were very nice sounding speakers and quite large, nothing like the speakers in the current ad.
But Mr Watkins is a legitimate innovator and well known designer, so these might be nice speakers.
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I just got my Email back from Watkins Audio and they said they would not be selling their speakers Direct very much longer because they will be going to Dealers soon. The Direct price for these bookshelf speakers for a very short time is $1995 a pair...when the Dealers start selling them, the price will go up to $2995 a pair.
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Sounds like you need to purchase ASAP and tell us what's what.
Is the driver made by them, exclusively?
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Sounds like you need to purchase ASAP and tell us what's what.
Is the driver made by them, exclusively?
The woofers are made by Watkins but I don't know if the tweeters are made by Watkins
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Probably not. The fact he makes the woofers to me means there's a possibility to validate the speaker.
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The woofers are made by Watkins but I don't know if the tweeters are made by Watkins
It's highly unlikely that he makes his own woofers- much more likely that he has them made to his specs. I think the last company besides Eminence to make woofers in the US was Gefco, and they closed shop over 10 years ago. Does anyone know of any other actual manufacturing plants for traditional cone woofers?
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It's highly unlikely that he makes his own woofers- much more likely that he has them made to his specs. I think the last company besides Eminence to make woofers in the US was Gefco, and they closed shop over 10 years ago. Does anyone know of any other actual manufacturing plants for traditional cone woofers?
Sorry but you are wrong....Watkins makes their own woofers!
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Take it with a grain of salt if Gordon Holt said it was great. Gordon had very bad hearing. That was well known in the audio industry.:nono:
I've been following audio (including Stereophile) for 45 years and never heard that. Care to name any names?
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C-Less, I may be wrong, but I will find out and report back. So you think he is stamping his own baskets or casting them, winding his own voice coils, making his cones....
I'll give the good folks at Eminence a call and let you know what they say. Then we can say for certain.
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I've been following audio (including Stereophile) for 45 years and never heard that. Care to name any names?
No names, but many audio dealers knew back then and some dealers would make fun of Holt at the CES shows. Holt also loved and rode Harleys a lot. Not so good for your hearing.
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Sorry but you are wrong....Watkins makes their own woofers!
I hate to burst your bubble but it only took me about 15 minutes to see that Watkins Woofers are sourced from all over the place. So far I've identified the EIA codes on about 6 different models... Seems that you Mr. Watkins contracted with Altec, Chicago Telephone, and Atlas? (depending on if the third # in a photo is a 2 or a 5)... plus three more codes that don't match up to companies that I can find. So even if one of those three belongs to Watkins, and I can find no record of his holding any Electronic Industry Association codes, he still used woofers from 5 other sources.
Sorry, Watkins didn't make his own woofers. Next time perhaps a less aggressive response would be in order. Now perhaps he made SOME of his woofers once upon a time, but as I said, unlikely.
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Years and years of the web. What kills me,maybe people either have it or not.Just amazing sites that cant info on the site. Price of speakers.???? What are they???? Did i miss it?.Hype sells i guess.Maybe im tired and need to go to bed.
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Having someone make what you want them to make, isn't all that far off. I mean for the integrity of the speakers they probably aren't different, it's just a point of discussion. I have to think though unless he's a crossover wizard, I'm not imagining these to be otherworldly. There's an awful lot of claims surrounding two driver monitors in the world...
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Having someone make what you want them to make, isn't all that far off. I mean for the integrity of the speakers they probably aren't different, it's just a point of discussion.
Oh, on that I absolutely agree. If our original poster had not been so absolute in his "I'm right!!!" I might have let it pass. I do find it interesting that in addition to alerting us to "One of the BEST SPEAKERS on the MARKET" he has also generously enlightened us as the worlds best headphone speakers, the Best Kept Secret on the Market speakers, another set of headphones that were the "best on the market...at any price??", another set of headphones that might be "the best that money can buy", along with other rave reviews. Any credibility was gone long ago.
I know I shouldn't feed the trolls, but...
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I lose track of the people without avatars, most of the time... ironic, I know.
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Any credibility was gone long ago.
I know I shouldn't feed the trolls, but...
HiFiSoundGuy has alerted me to products that were off my radar ..... and most likely will stay that way! ;)
Steve
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Bill Watkins is a good guy and has worked on great speaker designs since the 70's. Looks like the 6 1/2 inch mid/bass driver is built by Peerless which is used in the PTE self powered MTM's. This speaker looks similar in design to the highly rated ML1 with a 5 1/2 inch woofer. Not sure of the tweeter.
http://www.lenehanaudio.com.au/ml1.html
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Bill Watkins is a good guy and has worked on great speaker designs since the 70's. Looks like the 6 1/2 inch mid/bass driver is built by Peerless which is used in the PTE self powered MTM's. This speaker looks similar in design to the highly rated ML1 with a 5 1/2 inch woofer. Not sure of the tweeter.
http://www.lenehanaudio.com.au/ml1.html
+1 :thumb:
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I sat in on a couple of listening sessions in Atlanta on a prototype WE-1 around 1980 (?). They were very nice sounding speakers and quite large, nothing like the speakers in the current ad.
But Mr Watkins is a legitimate innovator and well known designer, so these might be nice speakers.
They have pictures here showing what it looks like inside these WE-1's...
http://bobbyshred.baberuthband.co.uk/infinity/watkins.html
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Bill Watkins is a good guy and has worked on great speaker designs since the 70's. Looks like the 6 1/2 inch mid/bass driver is built by Peerless which is used in the PTE self powered MTM's. This speaker looks similar in design to the highly rated ML1 with a 5 1/2 inch woofer. Not sure of the tweeter.
http://www.lenehanaudio.com.au/ml1.html
They looks a bit different, but similar.
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HiFiSoundGuy has alerted me to products that were off my radar ..... and most likely will stay that way! ;)
Steve
Funny you should mention HiFiSoundGuy. Crossoverless reminds me of his breathless style and the way insults and challenges are effortlessly and completely ignored with his subsequent posts, the vacuous hyping tone undiminished. The style was so familiar I just finished looking him up to see if I was remembering correctly. I was.
I think his high point was when he tweaked a Clever Little Clock by sticking Peter Belt's Frozen Memory Foil on each battery:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=36805.msg328476#msg328476
miklorsmith's response was classic.
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No names, but many audio dealers knew back then and some dealers would make fun of Holt at the CES shows. Holt also loved and rode Harleys a lot. Not so good for your hearing.
I knew Gordon pretty well when we both lived in Boulder in the mid 1990s and I visited him at home many times. Were it not for my difficulty with his cigarette smoke, we might have been much closer friends. Never heard any mention of Harleys but he may well have been involved with them when he was younger.
As for his hearing, I never detected any problem there at all. The most I could offer on that topic is the observation that tastes differ. He was very much into surround sound, Tannoy speakers and his enormous laser disc collection. He's the guy who referred to cables as passive tone controls.
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/viewpoint/0809/j_gordon_holt.htm
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Funny you should mention HiFiSoundGuy. Crossoverless reminds me of his breathless style and the way insults and challenges are effortlessly and completely ignored with his subsequent posts, the vacuous hyping tone undiminished. The style was so familiar I just finished looking him up to see if I was remembering correctly. I was.
It was a Freudian slip. After HiFiSoundGuy's posts wore thin several years ago, posting stopped and new member Crossoverless started posting. I'm fairly certain they are one in the same person.
Steve
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Bill Watkins is a good guy and has worked on great speaker designs since the 70's. Looks like the 6 1/2 inch mid/bass driver is built by Peerless which is used in the PTE self powered MTM's. This speaker looks similar in design to the highly rated ML1 with a 5 1/2 inch woofer. Not sure of the tweeter.
http://www.lenehanaudio.com.au/ml1.html
I agree the woofer is probably a modified Peerless. The tweeter is likely LPG or MB Quart, popular back in the 90's (http://meniscusaudio.com/lpg-26t-p-398.html).
Lenehan's design is NOT 1st order, which has its own issues particularly at higher SPL's and miserable off axis performance. Just to be clear, I would greatly prefer the Lenehan ML1 over this Watkins design.
Best,
Anand.
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If these Watkins Generation Four's are as good as they say they are, then even at "$2995...Dealers price", these speakers will still be one of the best bargains on the market today!..
I'm waiting to see what some of the Reviewers out there have to say about these Watkins Generation Four's after they listen to them! :P
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If these Watkins Generation Four's are as good as they say they are, then even at "$2995...Dealers price", these speakers will still be one of the best bargains on the market today!..
I'm waiting to see what some of the Reviewers out there have to say about these Watkins Generation Four's after they listen to them! :P
If you are close to Dallas, these $1100 speakers with servo amps will blow the 3K Watkins away. Wish I was in Texas. :thumb:
http://dallas.craigslist.org/mdf/ele/5721693583.html
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I knew Gordon pretty well when we both lived in Boulder in the mid 1990s and I visited him at home many times. Were it not for my difficulty with his cigarette smoke, we might have been much closer friends. Never heard any mention of Harleys but he may well have been involved with them when he was younger.
As for his hearing, I never detected any problem there at all. The most I could offer on that topic is the observation that tastes differ. He was very much into surround sound, Tannoy speakers and his enormous laser disc collection. He's the guy who referred to cables as passive tone controls.
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/viewpoint/0809/j_gordon_holt.htm
Poor Gordan, it was sad he smoked himself to death. Smoking is not good for your hearing either. https://www.audicus.com/smoking-your-ears-the-impact-of-cigarettes-on-hearing-loss/
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HiFiSoundGuy has alerted me to products that were off my radar ..... and most likely will stay that way! ;)
Steve
I look on this forum almost every day. I just don't post on it much anymore! :nono: I see some of you missed me! 8) :) :)
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I look on this forum almost every day. I just don't post on it much anymore! :nono: I see some of you missed me! 8) :) :)
Wow, you walked into that one. You're only allowed to have one account, which one do you want to keep?
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=148396)
Speaking of Infinity, here is a deal for 700 bucks in Az.
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/ele/5723217388.html
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=148396)
Speaking of Infinity, here is a deal for 700 bucks in Az.
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/ele/5723217388.html
Thanks for putting this on here....these are one of the best speakers you can buy! I'm going buy these before somebody else gets them! THANKS AGAIN! :D
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GREAT!!! Now you can check out those Watkins woofer codes and figure out who manufactured them!!! They will undoubtably be the BESTESS, MOSTESS, AMAZINGEST SPEAKERS OF ALL TIME!!!!!!!!
Good job, Crossoverless, errr, HiFiSoundGuy, or whoever you are.
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Thanks for putting this on here....these are one of the best speakers you can buy! I'm going buy these before somebody else gets them! THANKS AGAIN! :D
You can probably sell the smaller ones for 300-400 bucks on Ebay. But they do have crossovers.
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While it's not really causing harm, this thread is not going anywhere either. Maybe someone can redeem the topic before it's binned for terminal silliness, although I have no idea how that would be accomplished.
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But some good came of it as our ServerAdmin uncovered a dual personality. Other than that, it's run its course.
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Sometimes I wonder if people are hired by advertising firms to post.
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But some good came of it as our ServerAdmin uncovered a dual personality.
Reply #34 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=144849.msg1549543#msg1549543)
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I've been looking around at the other Reference speaker's Frequency Response and they don't look as good as Watkins Generation Fours :scratch:
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While it's not really causing harm, this thread is not going anywhere either. Maybe someone can redeem the topic before it's binned for terminal silliness, although I have no idea how that would be accomplished.
I would like to thank you for doing such a good job here! :roll:
You just let a few come on this thread and trash it.. and did nothing to stop it! :oops:
Keep up the good work! :roll: And have a nice day! :scratch:
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FYI further posts by Crossoverless will require facilitator/admin approval. Thanks.
:dunno:
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OK, just read this thread AFTER reading the new Absolute Sound review of the Gen 4 - which is a rave review and compares to speakers in the $15k range.
The OP was right.
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http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/watkins-stereo-generation-four-loudspeaker/
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Does anyone know of any other actual manufacturing plants for traditional cone woofers?
MISCO.
http://www.miscospeakers.com/
dave
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http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/watkins-stereo-generation-four-loudspeaker/
The plot thickens. That was actually a really positive review. I say, don't can this thread just yet....
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Yeah, I read the review, they appear to be the type of sound I prefer. I have too many speakers as it is, but if I was in the market they'd be on the list.
The member in question is on restriction, which means he can still post with approval. I think this is almost always the best first step in these situations and works much better than more severe moderation. We have some good admins here.
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MISCO.
http://www.miscospeakers.com/
dave
Hi Dave,
I failed to identify what Misco FR have hemp cone. They say only paper and seems e-guitar speakers w/steel baskets. Any idea?
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I have a set of custom midbass here with hemp cones, Hemp Acoustics drivers were made by MISCO and i belive (i could be wrong) that Louis’ Omega drivers are made by them
dave
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Thanks for inform Dave, you very knowledgeable as always.
Years ago I emailed w/Pecker but to my luck he dont had Alnico FR.
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http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/watkins-stereo-generation-four-loudspeaker/
Bargain of our lifetime :popcorn: :D
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But some good came of it as our ServerAdmin uncovered a dual personality. Other than that, it's run its course.
Negative comments, conjecture and pomposity are so frustrating when a person merely wants to read something educational or
informative on so many of these audio forums. Why can't people just stick to facts and not go off insulting each other and the product or services trying to be discussed in an intelligent manner?
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http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/watkins-stereo-generation-four-loudspeaker/
What stands out is that it is a double chamber reflex speaker which based on my limited experience can sound incredible. Why more speakers don’t use it I don’t know. Actually I do, because it involves a little more work than standard bass reflex and time ismoney. Other than that though it just looks like a typical peerless/seas monitor with very good $50 woofer and tweeter, both of which are popular in diy circles.
Note the admission about dealer markup. The internet direct makes speakers more reasonably priced. But Bargain of the century? Put them up against the CSS Satori monitor and say, a Fritz - both internet direct with muuch better drivers - and then maybe decide. But the double chamber reflex is a clever advantage.
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...the double chamber reflex is a clever advantage.
But comes with its own compromises too.
dave
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But comes with its own compromises too.
dave
Oh ... please explain.
Lester
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A less flat impedance curve, and one has 2 be careful to not end up with 2-note bass (as a single chamber can have 1-note bass). Since we are tuning 2 boxes we have 2 resonances to deal with.
dave
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I'm a "newbe" to Audio Circle but have been around the block a couple of times with audio. Watkins Engineering is an old company that dates back to the early 70s when they supplied the Watkins Dual Drive woofer to Infinity. I heard them for the first time in the Bay area on a trip with one of my reps when I was sales manager for Spectro Acoustics, a manufacturer of high end components started by some former employees from Phase Linear. We visited the local rep for Infinity and of course he had some demo QLS 1s which he was glad to show off for us. No loud rock, no pop, just a quiet jazz tune with an upright bass drums and piano. Never in my life have I heard such clean, deep, effortless bass from a single 12 in woofer. The comment was made that the Watkins Woofer "got under the note to put it out".
In my later years I have more time to appreciate good music and more money to spend on good stuff. I found two sets of Infinity QLS-3s over a period of eighteen months, had the woofers rebuilt by Watkins Engineering and restored whatever else was needed. They are now my "go to" speakers for listening to good digital music. I find that the Watkins woofer exceeds any other speaker I have heard in bass performance. The dual voice coil design eliminates the impedance rise and smooths the response down to the point where the sound is felt rather than heard.
I haven't heard the new Watkins Speaker but I would venture to say I would look forward to it. Watkins Engineering has a superb record for innovation and design and expect nothing but the best from them.