AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Salk Signature Sound => Topic started by: omasciarotte on 3 Oct 2012, 01:12 am
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Hey folks,
Thought you might enjoy:
Fried Products selects Salk Sound to design & build new speaker range
“Fried Products Corporation announced today that Salk Sound has been selected to design and build a new line of high fidelity loudspeakers based on Bud Fried’s legendary work. Salk Sound now holds exclusive licenses to both the Fried and IMF brands first established by Fried.”
More info as RMAF approaches…
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Congratulation Salksound.
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Room 1102 at RMAF. Please stop by and see Nuance and me. We are co-hosts for this room and "new" speaker at the show.
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^ What he said. :-) Please come visit us in room 1102. I look forward to seeing all of you there. These are truly exciting times!
Here is the press release, by the way. :-)
http://www.prlog.org/11989741-salk-sound-restablishes-legendary-loudspeaker-brands.html
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all of the "current" Fried speakers have been dropped? i almost went with one of their models before deciding on Salk.
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Very Cool. 8)
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This will be fun. Congrats Jim & All! :thumb:
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Super :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
I've been a Fried fanboy since the 70's when my first listen of the Model H (LS3/5a "satellite" clones with the dual woofer "coffin") was my 21st high-end audio epiphany. It struck me dumb and literally took months for me to digest what I heard (and why I liked it). Within a couple of years as a starving college kid I'd bought a pair of those satellites (Model B, then upgraded to B2), and after graduation followed by DIYing the woofers in separate "monitor" cabinets (Model M). Those were monsters (114 dB at 17 Hz), too much for any home I owned but sounded glorious in a 20,000 cu. ft. chapel.
Since then I've owned two more pair (still own the Model A, a two way floorstander) and my main rig are mass loaded transmission lines. BTW Bud (Irving M. Fried) never liked building his own speakers, so this is a perfect match, abet 40 years too late for Bud.
I'll be interested to see what Jim comes up with as frankly IMO Salk speakers come across as HT/hi-fi speakers compared to the natural, musical Fried sound.
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Hopefully you will be using some really good electronics for these speakers.
Good Luck!
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Hopefully you will be using some really good electronics for these speakers.
Good Luck!
How about this?
The “plan” for the room is to use the SalkStreamer as the main digital source controlled by mPad on an iPad2. For CD play the Wavelength is USB only so I’ll have the Bolder EE dac for that purpose. Some absorption panels, lighting, and PI Audio power conditioning, etc. and voila, we’ll be ready to rock.
• DIY 3 – 5 ga. solid copper IC & PC cabling
• Tube Research Labs Dude preamp w/Dueland caps
• TRL Samson mono blocks 300/500 watts
• SalkStream player & server (main digital source)
• Wavelength usb dac
• Bolder modded EE Minimax dac w/DEXA Discretes (for the CDP)
• Pioneer PD65 transport
• Squeezebox Touch (back-up source)
• Bolder Deluxe power supply with Bybee rails
• KCI Silkworm Digital IC
• Adona stands with 3” maple
• PI Audio Quad UberBuss & BussStop
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How about this?
That will work. Nice to see Jim using some very good electronics. :thumb:
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That will work. Nice to see Jim using some very good electronics. :thumb:
That's it? :o J/K
Great setup.
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Here is a link to the press release...
http://mi2n.com/press.php3?press_nb=158128 (http://mi2n.com/press.php3?press_nb=158128)
- Jim
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I would be more probaby be more inclined to demo with more modest amplification, so as not to imply that $11.5K worth of amplification is required to make $3K loudspeakers sound great.
Steve
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I would be more probaby be more inclined to demo with more modest amplification, so as not to imply that $11.5K worth of amplification is required to make $3K loudspeakers sound great.
Steve
+1
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+1
Well, I'll be waiting in the wings with my Rat Shack 16 Ga wire (with the cool red stripe) and my trusty Sherwood receiver. Can't wait to give these guys a taste of the high end.
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Does this mean we will see some transmission line models?
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Two audiophiles who I admire greatly, Paul Kaplan and Dan Banquer, have spoken very highly about their Fried speakers that they owned for many years. I am glad to know that Bud's legacy will live on, in the capable hands of Salk Sound. Congratulations, Jim, on the new venture. Now there is a good chance I will be able to hear the Frieds sometime!
Rich
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I would be more probaby be more inclined to demo with more modest amplification, so as not to imply that $11.5K worth of amplification is required to make $3K loudspeakers sound great.
Steve
Not required at all. I'm manning the room and I want to use gear I am familiar with.
And BTW, these speakers are very smooth, have fantastic imaging, and surprising bass. And they look sexy to boot.
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I'm personally excited about the setup we're using to drive the Bud Fried Towers at RMAF. I fully agree with the components chosen.
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Don't forget to post some pics from the Show! :thumb:
Have fun!
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Super :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
I've been a Fried fanboy since the 70's when my first listen of the Model H (LS3/5a "satellite" clones with the dual woofer "coffin") was my 21st high-end audio epiphany. It struck me dumb and literally took months for me to digest what I heard (and why I liked it). Within a couple of years as a starving college kid I'd bought a pair of those satellites (Model B, then upgraded to B2), and after graduation followed by DIYing the woofers in separate "monitor" cabinets (Model M). Those were monsters (114 dB at 17 Hz), too much for any home I owned but sounded glorious in a 20,000 cu. ft. chapel.
Since then I've owned two more pair (still own the Model A, a two way floorstander) and my main rig are mass loaded transmission lines. BTW Bud (Irving M. Fried) never liked building his own speakers, so this is a perfect match, abet 40 years too late for Bud.
I'll be interested to see what Jim comes up with as frankly IMO Salk speakers come across as HT/hi-fi speakers compared to the natural, musical Fried sound.
Jim mentioned this upcoming affiliation to me at AKFest, and I responded that the thing that really sold me originally on SongTowers was their 'kinship' in sound to the Fried's I'd owned in the past. I owned B2's and regretted selling them. Every speaker I owned after that never sounded 'right' until I heard the ST's. I'd disagree with you about the sound of Jim's speakers...I think they are natural and musical just like Fried's. Good luck on the new venture, and I wish I could make RMAF to hear them. Hmm...maybe I'll have to get a pair of these for another room!
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Don't forget to post some pics from the Show! :thumb:
Have fun!
Oh, no worries about that. :D
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I owned a pair of FRIED speakers back in the late 80's - can't remember the model but it was a small floor stander. Loved em. I look forward to seeing what comes out of this.
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very cool, interesting press release btw. i knew what fried speakers were, but never realized what an innovator he was before. yep, very cool.
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So who's coming to visit us next weekend?
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Too far for me. I'll actually be in Tampa just before the Audioholics event. I coiuld extend a day or so and go by there.
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I look forward to hearing these :D
tony
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I look forward to hearing these :D
tony
Hey Tony, can't wait to see again!
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Hey Tony, can't wait to see again!
Hi Pete, I look forward to seeing you too. We haven't been to RMAF since 07. I was wore out then after 3 days and now the show is much bigger.. :o
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Website is up!
http://www.friedaudio.com/
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Website is up!
http://www.friedaudio.com/
Sweet!
(http://www.friedaudio.com/images/bf-rosecherry-single.jpg)
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10 finish/veneer combos
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$2500? :o
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$2500? :o
No. $2995 Retail. NO extra charge for any of the 10 finishes. Right now the outriggers will only be black. They blend in with the driver cones and surrounds so black was the best choice.
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How "Fried" are these? I've never seen a MTM Fried or one that the TL didn't exit in the front.
What specifically makes them "Fried" (since Bud is dead)?
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The newer line had a MTM but the TL did terminate in the front.
I was hoping for one of the multiple TL designs.
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How "Fried" are these? I've never seen a MTM Fried or one that the TL didn't exit in the front.
What specifically makes them "Fried" (since Bud is dead)?
The special Fried version of the tweeter, a TL design and a series crossover, which means all the drivers are connected to one circuit instead of independent ones. Bud's main focus was using high quality drivers from all over the world, and that tradition is being upheld with these speakers. Come and hear them this weekend and let us know what you think. :thumb:
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The newer line had a MTM but the TL did terminate in the front.
I was hoping for one of the multiple TL designs.
I'm sure we could have placed the terminus on the front, but that's not considered best practice for the same reason it's not considered best practice to place a port in the front on bass reflex designs. Both ports and transmission lines produce upper harmonics that will be suppressed with rear placement, but might be heard with front placement. Rear placement can cause problems if the speakers are placed close to a rear wall, but this is much less of an issue (and pretty much a non-issue) with a TL terminus than it is with a traditional port, which has a narrow peak that can be accentuated by boundary reinforcement.
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My understanding is that Dennis Murphy does the crossover design for Salk, but who will be handling the acoustic design?
Will Salk be copying Bud Fried's designs exactly, or making variations based on his basic concepts?
It is my feeling that bass performance in a speaker is something that most designers are not able to get right, and Irving Fried (and Peter Snell) were two of the very few who did. In fact, to my ears, the voicing of Fried speakers from around 400Hz and down was outstanding, even in his resistive port designs, but the mids and highs were just good.
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Interesting, a reverse merger in the speaker world. Does Salk.inc own the brand to the extent that you can produce loudspeakers that are not part of Bud Fried's legacy?
Bud's main focus was using high quality drivers from all over the world, and that tradition is being upheld with these speakers.
Sounds a lot like Jim's philosophy.
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^ It kind of does, yes, which is why Salk is a great choice to continue Fried's work.
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It is my opinion that ANY company would benefit from Jim Salk owning/managing it. :thumb:
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To "carry on" would I suppose mean "if Bud were still developing speakers, they would be like..." Otherwise you do vintage stuff (if drivers are still available) or some variation of "Bud-like". The later stuff with his name was produced after his death, so don't know how "Bud-like" they are (as he promoted the "expanding sound source" concept with tweeter above midrange that were both above the woofer, not MTM). Updating ("improving") on his concepts isn't highly "Bud-like" either. Philosophically, how "Bud-like" should it be to truly honor his name?
Specifically what makes this speaker any different than something else that Salk/Murphy/etc. would come up with?
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Sweet!
(http://www.friedaudio.com/images/bf-rosecherry-single.jpg)
The image makes me think of Zus Omen Defs in the Sangria finish.
I owned Fried Q2s years back and they were great for the $. Should be interesting.
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Specifically what makes this speaker any different than something else that Salk/Murphy/etc. would come up with?
Well, the series crossover, for one. And you could say that Salks have always been "Fried-Like" in their use of TL cabinets. The main difference there is that transmission line modeling is now much more accurate than it was when Fried was using the approach.
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Well, the series crossover, for one. And you could say that Salks have always been "Fried-Like" in their use of TL cabinets. The main difference there is that transmission line modeling is now much more accurate than it was when Fried was using the approach.
Just using TL (especially as you say Salk has been doing anyway) is stretching the Fried label IMO.
Yes, I'm aware of Martin King's work (I own a Bob Brines single driver version) as being accurate modeling, but is it better than what Bud came up with? I've owned both (20 years apart so I can't say, but the big Frieds impressed the hell of me back in the day).
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Just using TL (especially as you say Salk has been doing anyway) is stretching the Fried label IMO.
Did you miss the part about the series crossover and Bud Fried custom tweeter? :)
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I see much pontificating before the speaker has even been heard.
The Salk Communications team have all of Bud's notes and his white papers to better understand his thinking and approaches. Will they be exact copies of historic designs? No. Will the models approach his intentions as much as practical given current drivers, current design techniques, current evaluation tools, and the Salk build quality you have come to expect? Of course.
I am very impressed with this new speaker. I believe you will be as well after you get a listen. I'm also of the Fried vintage as many of you here and feel this speaker delivers his legacy plus some.
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It would be interesting to hear how the existing $2700 Salk SongTower RT and $3500 SongTower Supercharged sound compared to the new $3,000 Fried Tower, and for what considerations and applications one might choose one over the other.
Steve
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I am glad to see Fried hasn't been forgotten (or worse). And I'm glad to see Salk picking up the ball. The last big Fried I heard (at 2009 AKFest) was $6500/pair but was the best speaker there to sound good (deep bass without boom) in the Embassy suite rooms. I do want to hear them for myself.
Thanks Big Red for clarifying the Salk/Murphy design intent.
(I don't recall Bud using custom tweeters or being particularly focused on the higher frequencies - I've owned 4 pair and still have a pair in use. And several firms use 1st order crossovers. So I'll wait to hear for myself.)
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If I may inject my 2 cents worth into this discussion, I have a lot of respect for what Bud Fried did, as should all of us, but if anyone has taken the time to actually model any of his TL designs, like I have, you would quickly see their shortcomings. Why that occurred is obvious since Bud didn't have the tools we have that eliminate all the guess work and trial and error. I hope no one views what I've said as bad-mouthing Bud's work; it's just a simple issue of fact. It's amazing what Bud was able to accomplish but that doesn't mean what can be done today much more quickly and accurately should be viewed as inferior to his work or not maintaining and building on what he started.
Paul
Just using TL (especially as you say Salk has been doing anyway) is stretching the Fried label IMO.
Yes, I'm aware of Martin King's work (I own a Bob Brines single driver version) as being accurate modeling, but is it better than what Bud came up with? I've owned both (20 years apart so I can't say, but the big Frieds impressed the hell of me back in the day).
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If I may inject my 2 cents worth into this discussion, I have a lot of respect for what Bud Fried did, as should all of us, but if anyone has taken the time to actually model any of his TL designs, like I have, you would quickly see their shortcomings. Why that occurred is obvious since Bud didn't have the tools we have that eliminate all the guess work and trial and error. I hope no one views what I've said as bad-mouthing Bud's work; it's just a simple issue of fact. It's amazing what Bud was able to accomplish but that doesn't mean what can be done today much more quickly and accurately should be viewed as inferior to his work or not maintaining and building on what he started.
Paul
I think this is a brilliant move by Jim. I would bet that Fried's legacy will be a loose guide, while Salk's current designs are likely to fill out the line. While Salk has a strong but small base of loyal followers, a quick web search would suggest that Fried is more of a "global brand".
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I am glad to see Fried hasn't been forgotten (or worse). And I'm glad to see Salk picking up the ball. The last big Fried I heard (at 2009 AKFest) was $6500/pair but was the best speaker there to sound good (deep bass without boom) in the Embassy suite rooms. I do want to hear them for myself.
Thanks Big Red for clarifying the Salk/Murphy design intent.
(I don't recall Bud using custom tweeters or being particularly focused on the higher frequencies - I've owned 4 pair and still have a pair in use. And several firms use 1st order crossovers. So I'll wait to hear for myself.)
I don't think there's any question that the fluid model for the 0W2 tweeter was developed for Bud. So that's not a matter of your recalling it. And Bud never used 1st order crossovers, and the new Fried doesn't either. I believe there were some models that used 1st order electrical filters, although that may have been after Bud sold his name rights. But, as I'm sure you realize, it's the acoustic slope, not the electrical transfer function, that defines a true 1st order crossover. And the Fried designs never came close to that. I modeled the series crossover for the new Fried after the crossover for one of Fried's most popular satellite-sub designs. That used 2nd order electrical filters, which work very well with the Peerless woofers, and also with the original 0W2 tweeter used in the "new'and "old" Fried speakers.
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In case you guys missed it, Stereophile posted about the Bud Fried Towers on their website. Here's the link and an excerpt:
"Partnered with Tube Research Labs amplification, a Wavelength DAC, and homemade cables, the Bud Fried speakers painted a very pretty picture, with good speed, fine imaging, and especially nice body and tone to female vocals and acoustic guitars."
http://www.stereophile.com/home?page=1
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I think this room sounded better then the Salk room. Jim needs to think about using some higher end gear IMO.
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Here's another review by our very own Pez and Tyson:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=110610.20
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I think this room sounded better then the Salk room. Jim needs to think about using some higher end gear IMO.
Did you re-visit the room after Friday? It sounded much better. That large room is hard to "tame."
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Did you re-visit the room after Friday? It sounded much better. That large room is hard to "tame."
The Salk room? Yes. Still not close to as good as I was expecting given the positive feedback I've read.
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Here's another review by our very own Pez and Tyson:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=110610.20
This isn't going to sell a lot of speakers to people who listen to their speakers. If they just look at them, then yes. I agree with the earlier post. I think Salk needs to mix it up on the electronics side. These are $10k speakers, lets get some electronics that go with that sort of investment!
As an SS8 owner, I am a little concerned that even Salk is struggling with setup/placement. What about the room is so challenging, that its a constant comment to listeners.
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Jim needs to think about using some higher end gear IMO.
I concur.
This isn't going to sell a lot of speakers to people who listen to their speakers. If they just look at them, then yes. I agree with the earlier post. I think Salk needs to mix it up on the electronics side. These are $10k speakers, lets get some electronics that go with that sort of investment!
As an SS8 owner, I am a little concerned that even Salk is struggling with setup/placement. What about the room is so challenging, that its a constant comment to listeners.
I agree about the electronics, but that's all I'll say about that. :) Concerning the room, they set the SS8's up so they are what you see when you first walk in, but that meant the passive of the right speaker was facing a large hallway/entrance causing a bass null. This was resolved Saturday morning before the show started, but the room still had its effect. Anyone who owns the SS8's knows they are not lean in the bass or harsh on the top end. Windows, large openings and the large kitchen all reek havoc on the sound, and it is a challenge to dial things in. Next year the larger speakers (SoundScape series) will likely be placed on the other side of the room, as they'll sound better there.
Oh, and jtwrace is the only one to say he didn't like the sound post Friday, so I wouldn't be too concerned. Salk's sound isn't going to please everyone.
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Sound and Vision considers the Bud Fried monitor to be among the best speakers at RMAF:
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/photogallery/gallery-best-speakers-2012-rocky-mountain-audio-fest
Yeah baby!
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And another:
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/rocky-mountain-show-report/
Excerpt:
"The tall, slim tower couples a pair of 7” Peerless drivers with a dome tweeter in an MTM arrangement. The sound from these $2995-per-pair speakers was neutral and well-balanced."
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It looks like Jim has another winner on his hands. I'm happy to see someone carrying on the Fried tradition. Congratulations to Jim and Dennis for bringing these speakers to market. For under $3k, the new Fried models look to be a very good bargain.
Regarding room setup issues, anyone who has ever been to an audio show is most likely (painfully) aware of how difficult it is to set up a room, especially if it's not the ideal size for the speakers you are demonstrating. Not saying it's the case here, but I suspect Salk speakers are no more difficult to set up than any other speakers. I'm disappointed I was unable to attend the RMAF, due to family and work committments. Maybe next year!
Cheers,
Jack
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I concur.
I agree about the electronics, but that's all I'll say about that. :) Concerning the room, they set the SS8's up so they are what you see when you first walk in, but that meant the passive of the right speaker was facing a large hallway/entrance causing a bass null. This was resolved Saturday morning before the show started, but the room still had its effect. Anyone who owns the SS8's knows they are not lean in the bass or harsh on the top end. Windows, large openings and the large kitchen all reek havoc on the sound, and it is a challenge to dial things in. Next year the larger speakers (SoundScape series) will likely be placed on the other side of the room, as they'll sound better there.
Oh, and jtwrace is the only one to say he didn't like the sound post Friday, so I wouldn't be too concerned. Salk's sound isn't going to please everyone.
Now you and your rolling eyes post of late in the RMAF thread know for a fact that Jason wasn't the only one who had something negative to say about the Bud Fried loudspeakers at RMAF. Let's try and keep it real yea. :thumb:
Bud Freid. They were solidly mediocre, no way could I live with these. "Only" $3k for a pair of crappy speakers.
(http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l318/davec113/RMAF%202012/RMAF2012110.jpg)
Cheers,
Robin
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Jason didn't knock the Fried room, actually. As for your post, not everyone will like every speaker. It's no skin off my back, especially considering the positive press and comments all weekend.
By the way, it's pretty pathetic of you to come in here with a vendetta and only post for the sake of slander. Tough man hiding behind his computer. I look forward to meeting you in person one day. :wink:
P.S. How about them Cowboys? :lol:
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Jason didn't knock the Fried room, actually. As for your post, not everyone will like every speaker. It's no skin off my back, especially considering the positive press and comments all weekend.
By the way, it's pretty pathetic of you to come in here with a vendetta and only post for the sake of slander. Tough man hiding behind his computer. I look forward to meeting you in person one day. :wink:
P.S. How about them Cowboys? :lol:
:violin: :violin: :violin: :violin: :violin:
(goes for my Cowboys too) :rotflmao:
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^ LOL, I have to admit, your silly charade is kind of entertaining. Have at it, chief.
Back on track: congrats to Jim on a successful trade show. You don't get where he is today by making lousy speakers, and I think that's obvious to anyone with common sense. Again, congrats! :thumb:
P.S. Pete's Tubes Research Labs gear is sick! He has good taste.
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This isn't going to sell a lot of speakers to people who listen to their speakers. If they just look at them, then yes. I agree with the earlier post. I think Salk needs to mix it up on the electronics side. These are $10k speakers, lets get some electronics that go with that sort of investment!
As an SS8 owner, I am a little concerned that even Salk is struggling with setup/placement. What about the room is so challenging, that its a constant comment to listeners.
We chose (poorly) to put the 8's at the entrance side of the room so folks would come in after having a wow moment seeing the Pepperwood Burl. Salk still does not have wide recognition so if folks poke their head in and see some bookshelves or small towers in Cherry they might not come all the way in - that was our logic. We muscled Jim into doing this even though his instinct was to use the other end to support the bass output. So that was a poor decision but we moved the speakers back toward the wall, moved the left closer to the left wall and amateurishly put a hard surface next the the right outboard passive in an effort to give it a surface to build from. The amount of work to swap systems end to end would have been very great right in the middle of the show so we felt it was a decent result so kept moving forward. Next time they will be in the other end of the room.