AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Salk Signature Sound => Topic started by: DEP14 on 2 Aug 2014, 10:41 pm
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So back in my teens and early 20's I loved 2 channel audio. I had no money, but what I did I spent on mountain bikes and audio equipment. This peaked around 1992 with my purchase of some Klipsch Quartet's and an Adcom 545II amp and 535 pre-pro along with a denon 5 cd changer. Had to have monster cable then also....
Graduated college, got married, got a job and didn't do much audio for a few years as I was broke, working and had my first good car.
Around 1998 I bought some audio equipment again. NHT loudspeakers, a Pioneer Elite Receiver and a small velodyne sub. Other than getting a center channel and rears for my first home theater , in a small apartment during grad school and my first small house, I didn't make any changes until 2005 when I bought a bigger Onkyo Receiver for switching purposes. I always loved going into high end stores and listening and missed having what I considered a killer system but without a dedicated room, having 4 kids, and moving a few times I didn't have time or funds. But I missed it.
Fast forward again to Winter 2012/13 and my wife suggested I use a room in the basement for a small media room. I was thrilled - had the paint guy there in 2 days, bought a new plasma and figured I'd be thrilled. Just would tweak my NHT stuff, maybe upgrade to inexpensive separates again (which I did...) and be done with it.
It's now 20 months later. I've gone from those NHTs to Golden Ear Triton 2's and associated 5 channel system, to klipsch palladiums, to my soundscape 8's and center being built.
I now have dual SVS subs.
I went from my onkyo to a used Harman Kardon Signature 2.1 amp and an emotiva UMC 200, to a marantz 8801 and that HK amp, to the 8801 and a Butler 5150 amp... and now I have a Classe SSP-800 with the Butler and I'm on the verge of buying a used CA 5200 or 5300....
I woke up a couple days ago realizing I'm out of control. Some of this I blame on Big Red Machine. I was thrilled with the SS8's and my equipment but I listen loud and I listen to crap recordings. So, things get bright (the palladiums were crazy bright) the SS8's weren't bad but on bright recordings even they started to get bright on me. I like detail and dyanamics.
BRM left me with a couple of quotes "the pre-amp is the biggest thing you need to upgrade" (here I was thinking that it's marantz's top of the line, and marantz after all is known for being smooth...) and "you have no idea what those speakers can do yet".
Well... those are two things I did NOT want to hear! It's like throwing down a gauntlet.
I was very close to buying a new Krell Foundation (offered an insane deal) but every review said the SSP-800 was a HT pre-pro that was excellent in 2 channel (turns out "they" are right). I got a great deal and figured I could sell it maybe even at a profit if I didn't like it.
The SSP-800 had me thinking - YUP, BRM was dead-nuts correct. The Marantz "was" the issue (though it's still a great pre-pro for home theater and for the money). The Classe has all of the detail and dynamics but it isn't harsh, ever.
So I love it, but I'm out of control. Part of me wants the matching amp so I started looking for it (and the butler 5150 for the money is killer)... my hope is if I pull the trigger I will be done... other than maybe having Jim build me up some surrounds.
Anyways... anyone else ever think they were out of control? For a fleeting moment I said I should sell all of it, and just go to a mid-fi system. BUT, it makes me so happy to listen to... BUT I have 4 kids...
I mean, I was pretty happy with the Golden Ears...
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Done? What is this done phrase that you refer to? :D
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If you even suspect you have upgraditis, it is very lucky you weren't anywhere near the Salk/Philharmonic/AVA room at CAF last week. Things could have gotten ugly...
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I hate to break the news to you, but you're just getting started. There's lots of levels to this thing. We haven't even begun to indoctrinate you into high end power management and cabling yet. And combining HT with 2-channel -- that's a big no-no.
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You're asking the wrong people what "out of control" is.
We all know there's ALWAYS something in this hobby keeping us curious, tweaking, upgrading, pondering, listening, pondering, trying out new things just for fun or out of boredom or whatever........then the wallet comes out again and again and again. It's "the sickness."
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HMMM..... Let's see. Order Exotica IIIs, check. New Tortuga DIY Pre, yep. Sold off a bunch of stuff, getting new 1625 based tube mono blocks built. The Tortuga really does make a difference. Makes me wonder why my Anthem D2V2 sounds less than stellar at 12x the price. With my Meitner MA-1...
Oh yeah, work... Chord Hugo DAC direct into a Dodd EL84 amp. GR Research bookshelves... whoops...
Shawn
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Even though few surround proccessors do a good job in 2 channel stereo but they are still not as good as a well design dedicated 2 channel preamp. I have tried many time to integrate HT and 2 channel system into one. I have learned after many trial and error with ton of money into the waiste, the only best way to do it is with HT pass through input via dedicated 2 channel preamp.
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I know. Have known for a while. Just chose to ignore it for simplicity. My wife doesn't appreciate all the new gear... Heh.
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Currently space pretty much dictates that I have to integrate both systems.... so at least that is some sort of a stop-gap.
Though... could make a few changes and put the electronics in another room behind my main one.
I do need to get a second row of seats going.
I'd love to have a dedicated 2 channel listening room (and have plans) but that is a long way off I believe.
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Hi Guys,
Damn BRM its all his fault :icon_lol:. Anyway I think you need to stop upgrading your system for a while and appreciate what you have. Go out and find some well recorded music you like and listen to it. I usually restrict myself to one component upgrade every one to two years and even this is too much.
Anyway I liked your post.
Cheers Rod
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So in Uncle Buck he was on a 5 year plan to quit smoking cigarettes; cigars, chewing tobacco, the patch, and nicotine gum. How'd that work for him?
:duh:
In audio, you might experience something similar:
Rock CD's suck
Speakers
Preamp
Amp
Cables
DAC
Preamp
Amp
Power Conditioning
Tweaks
DAC
Power Conditioning
Acoustic treatments (finally :duh:)
DAC
Shelving (cuz you know it will help :lol:)
Tweaks
Cables
Media server
Hi Rez material
Class A amp
New room
Rinse and repeat :bawl:
Good luck quitting........ :nono:
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Upgrading in audio is like making love in the sand. You dont want to stop but you have to.... :D
I recently upgraded pre amps too. Njoy!
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Sometimes I want to curse you guys for infecting me with upgrade-itis; sometimes I want to hug you. (Well, not really hug you...) And don't deny it. You infected me. It must have been you, you, and you.
If sfox hadn't decided to sell his AVA preamp; lured me in with his price reduction scheme, and snagged me while I wasn't thinking clearly, I wouldn't be trying to create imaginative excuses to feed my wife right now. It's not as though I HAD to buy it, ya know? I'm sure I could have lasted another year before succumbing.
What's next? Oh. I know. Speakers.....and subwoofers.....when will this end?....Oh, and my DAC is just a DacMagic Plus.....(next year....)
STOP! Help me! AHHhhhhhhhhhhh!!
:no_see:
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I haven't even heard the words analog yet
tonearm
cartridge
turntable
phono pre
and accessories
engaging
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I haven't even heard the words analog yet
Like with my dual mono DAC, I went diy with a heavy plinth Lenco and air bearing arm. :D Less dollars invested but performance wise way beyond what I could afford retail wise, even used.
(http://i417.photobucket.com/albums/pp260/scompracer/Lenco%20Project/lenco_wrapped.jpg) (http://s417.photobucket.com/user/scompracer/media/Lenco%20Project/lenco_wrapped.jpg.html)
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I haven't even heard the words analog yet
tonearm
cartridge
turntable
phono pre
and accessories
engaging
I was going from Musical Fedelity phono stage + Clearaudio Concept table + MC cart to a full blow BAT VK5 + VPI Sc2+ Zephyr2 cart+ VPI sds + VPI HW17 record cleaner.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=103382)
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If you get bit with the tube audio bug, fuggettaboutit! That is when one really starts down the slippery slope. :lol:
Many (certainly not all) eventually get to the point that the best audio experience can be had by using vacuum tubes for reproduction. Read this for more on why many audiophiles wind up with tubes:
http://spectrum.ieee.org/consumer-electronics/audiovideo/the-cool-sound-of-tubes (http://spectrum.ieee.org/consumer-electronics/audiovideo/the-cool-sound-of-tubes)
Once you go down that rabbit hole, over time, you will come to realize that in order to get the best possible sound without spending more cash than one can reasonably afford, the only practical way is to go custom made, DIY products. This allows use of high quality tubes that won't chernobyl prematurely like the Chinese/Russian current production offerings. One can also use high quality attenuators, chokes, resistors, coupling caps, etc. that generally are not offered in commercial made equipment.
Once you get there, the upgrade bug finally starts to subside, as you realize that you have gotten much closer to audio bliss than you could have thought possible. 8)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=103387)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=103388)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=103389)
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An audio upgraditus addiction is like any other addiction, and to stop it requires only self control. At some point you have to realize that getting that next very expensive 0.1% improvement, which may actually be more a perception than a reality, is simply not worth the money. Once you admit that you don't really need it, that you've run out of reasons for having it, going cold turkey will do it as far as additional, but highly questionable improvements are concerned. If you can make improvements that don't cost much, go for it.
Paul
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This is the worst upgraditis support group. Ever. :thumb:
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An audio upgraditus addiction is like any other addiction, and to stop it requires only self control. At some point you have to realize that getting that next very expensive 0.1% improvement, which may actually be more a perception than a reality, is simply not worth the money. Once you admit that you don't really need it, that you've run out of reasons for having it, going cold turkey will do it as far as additional, but highly questionable improvements are concerned. If you can make improvements that don't cost much, go for it.
Paul
I'm not addicted. I'm not addicted. I'm not.....
I'm still playing catch up, so I'm still realizing large improvements in sound quality. Half of my equipment is second-hand, so I'm getting really good bang for my bucks. Lastly, and this is key, my wife finally accepts this hobby of mine so long as I sell off the older stuff. Party!
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You can keep your HT separate from your 2ch even when you keep them in the same room.
I have my HT receiver connected through my AVA pre amp and I had Frank install one of his by pass switches.
I use my AVA amp to drive the front speakers on my HT and my 2 ch but using separate components for each.
Works like a dream and my HiFi sounds great. Your Salks match great with AVA equipment and the bang for buck is unreal.
Check them out.
:thumb:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=103397)
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Sounds like you're being very sensible. Having your wife's blessing indicates so.
Paul
I'm not addicted. I'm not addicted. I'm not.....
I'm still playing catch up, so I'm still realizing large improvements in sound quality. Half of my equipment is second-hand, so I'm getting really good bang for my bucks. Lastly, and this is key, my wife finally accepts this hobby of mine so long as I sell off the older stuff. Party!
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Or that she has shoes that are hidden somewhere that she doesn't want to discuss the price of...
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Or that she has shoes that are hidden somewhere that she doesn't want to discuss the price of...
:icon_lol: :icon_lol: :lol:
Actually, she's very much the spend thrift. She started out being opposed to my buying expensive seeming toys, but then she noticed one neighbor bought himself a new Harley ($35k), another neighbor's wife has a horse (idk how much $$, but purchase price + boarding + trailer + food= $$$$$!!) . Then, she remembered that her parents are living in a flat/condo in Taiwan that we're paying for, and the car my father-in-law drives... (talk about happy in-laws)...So, yeah. I get to buy some things now and then. :thumb:
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Well,
I couldn't help myself. Bought a used Classe CA 5200 to go along with my SSP-800. DAMN IT SOUNDS FANTASTIC!!!! I think I'm actually done with upgrades for a while (besides figuring out how I want to do digital audio, and maybe having jim build me up some rears at some point). But from a main speakers, amp, and pre-amp standpoint. I've spent way too much, thank goodness for lightly used equipment!!!
But the SS8, Classe combination is absolutely fantastic. BRM was correct in what a huge difference the pre-pro makes from a 2 channel listening standpoint, and for me this Classe is outstanding. The amp was the cherry on top in that it has once again proven you can never have too much power. The Butler 5150 was and still is a fantastic amp, and frankly at retail I would tell someone that the Classe is not worth 3x the Butler 5150. But at used, depreciated prices... it is awesome.
That said, the Pre-Pro made the biggest difference outside of the speakers. I'm really happy actually with the DAC's inside the SSP-800 as I'm just using my Oppo 103 as a source for now. Digital music is my next frontier as I'd like to get my CD rack out of the room, and work on going to Hi-Res material.
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Damned nice amp! :bowdown: :thumb:
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I am in the process of having mono-blocks made for my new exotica 3s. 1625 tube based amps. I am stoked for them all to be done. Exoticas are being veneered as we speak...
Shawn
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After my hearing the E3s at Axpona, I know you're going to enjoy them in your home. Congratulations!
I'm curious to hear what selection process you used to decide which amps to buy. As you know, there is a huge selection of manufacturers out there. The are tube amps, hybrids, and solid state, and what else? Had you considered Frank's Fet Valve amps (400R, 600R)?
As a 'tube noob' I'm interested in any tidbits you care to share.
Michael
P.S. I'm still listening to the T8 and have not yet switched back to my old i3.3 for a comparison. I really like what I am hearing.
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I am a big tube lover. I had the AVA Ultra 550 amp. I liked it a lot, but wanted a more "tube" sound. I currently use an AVA Ultimate 70 to drive my HT2-TLs at home right now. At work I have a Dodd EL84 based battery powered amp. I was going to pair the T-8 with that if I kept it. Instead, I feed the Dodd amp with my chord hugo, which has its own preamp section in it.
I love the Ultimate 70, but I wanted to try something new, and the looming issue I have is that I know that my Mullard EL34 XF2s and 5AR4 will not last forever. The 5AR4 could live forever, but the EL34s won't. I love them. They sound great, but replacing them will cost $1000 or so if I want Mullard again. I also wanted to lessen heat from the amps if I could. So I am going with 1625 based amps, which are at 12v plate voltage. 1625s are the 12 volt version of the 807 tube. The 807 tube family is a repinned 6L6 tube. They have each been used a lot for tube amps. The 1625 tubes run about $5 each NOS unmatched, and no more than $10 for matched or the like. I got a case of 50 NOS National Union 1625 tubes that are all still in the same case from their delivery to the navy in 1944. I paid for less for those tubes than a single NOS EL34. The front end inverter tubes are 12SX7/12SN7 tubes, which are also 12v tubes. The 12 volts across the board will mean less current draw than the lower voltage tubes and, hopefully, produce less heat. The 12SN7s are not as cheap as the 1625s, but are $10-20 each. So retubing both amps will cost $80 or so. They also push 100w+ per channel as opposed to 35w+ per channel. I won't need the power with the Exoticas, but I am happy I will have it.
Shawn