AudioCircle
Industry Circles => NuPrime Audio => Topic started by: rustydoglim on 3 Nov 2018, 06:55 pm
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=186315)
Features:
• NuPrime PSRC IC chip provides sample rate up/down convertered processing. Adjust the range from PCM 44.1KHz to DSD512.
• ESS Newest Generation: The world’s highest performance 32-bit Stereo DAC (ES9038PRO). State-of-the-art DAC with warmer sonic characteristics.
• Seven digital filters.
• Output Level variable or fixed mode
• Analog output phase change.
• Analog output channel setting.
• Display brightness adjustment.
• Support the decoding of DSD DoP formats via SPDIF inputs .
• Full microprocessor control with memory retention.
• Seven digital inputs for complete system flexibility.
• USB Asynchronous transfer mode.
• USB Supports DSD native playback by ASIO and DoP method.
• USB Supports MQA decode.
• Individually adjustable volume on each input for precise level matching of sources. • Exclusive driver software for Windows.
• Available in black or silver anodized aluminum finish.
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Price to be determined next week.
Shipping at end of November.
There is a pre-production unit being demo in Germany this week.
To elevate the performance of a DAC (how to surpass Product Of The Year DAC-10 ?), our chief engineer redesigned the power supply and all the power related circuits from the ground up. As you can see from the internal photo, there is no messy cables and two ultra low noise transformers were used. There is an AC noise filter.
Yes, I heard it and it is worthy of the Evolution series.
For those who want analog inputs you would be disappointed. We want to optimise the performance so analog was left out. We are still working on where to provide the analog preamp, most likely with a new top of the line headphone amp.
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Wow, interesting. Could be the perfect match for my Evo One Monoblocks. Will it be a MQA Full Decoder?
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hello rustidoglim, where is the Evolution Dac introduced in Germany?
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Exciting news!
Rusty, I'm guessing one of the 7 digital inputs is I2S - to hook up to the CDT-8 Pro and CDP-9?
Volume control digital?
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Will the dac9 and 10 be supplemented by this new product, or either discontinued? What is the expected market? I use a dac10 and cdt 8 pro with an integrated amp, the 10 being used as a pure DAC. I’m interested in the new Sabre DAC chip, and wonder if this product is for me, though my gear is lovely!
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Price to be determined next week.
Shipping at end of November.
....
End November - Just in time for black Friday price :thumb:
Size? and picture of backpanel?
"warmer sonic characteristics" - is it leaning towards the DAC9?
I currently stick with the DAC9 to supplement my ST10, because I like the warmer sonic sound of the DAC9 compared to the DAC10, with my current speakers.
(And because I favor volume knobs over volume buttons) :D
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Wow, interesting. Could be the perfect match for my Evo One Monoblocks. Will it be a MQA Full Decoder?
Yes.
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hello rustidoglim, where is the Evolution Dac introduced in Germany?
It is over by now, I heard it was from Nov 5 to 7. Frank Urban, the distributor and also Audium speaker will send me some photos.
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We are working on the product page.
Retail price $3500 $3250
This is not in the same league as DAC-10 or DAC-9. It is very expensive (by NuPrime standard :)) to make.
NuPrime has 3 product lines:
1) Evolution series - best of the very best against any competitors at any price.
2) 10 series - for audiophiles who want very detailed and neutral sound, it is somewhat above the 9 series. We expect some people to mix and match 10 and 9 series.
3) 9 series - you can't go wrong with this series - exceptional value for money and still world class performance. If you listen to a variety of music and watch movies with your audiophile system (come on, get the NuPrime-X for your home theater:)), and prefer a little bit of warmth, go with the 9 series.
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Why all digital and no analog?
Performance. For high end DAC, the DAC chip should handle the volume control for the best result. Analog volume control and switch complicate the design and compromise the performance so it was left out. This is a problem if you have analog source (mainly turntable). We will look into a high end headphone amp and preamp for the Evolution series. There are things that we want to do but due to budget and size constrain, not able to put them in the 9 or 10 series.
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Jason,
Thanks for bringing this new DAC to market and for keeping us abreast of news.
Some DACs excel at CD quality music; other DACs excel at hi-res music; yet others excel at MQA. Where does the new Evolution DAC excel?
Regards,
Michael
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All of the above? :scratch:
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In what respects does the evolution DAC surpass the DAC10H?
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My question, too. My 10 is lovely, and I use it as a DAC, only, with an integrated amp, the Kinki ex M1.
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DAC-10 is already so good, so there isn't any particular weakness with DAC-10.
What I can hear is Evo DAC opens up another layer of clarity (that you never know it was there, that's the interesting thing about high end audio).
I think main improvement comes from the power supply and power circuit. There are quite a few implementation of ESS9038 on the market and the result is all over the place (without disparaging competitors). The performance of ESS9038 over 9028 and 9018 is minor, due to diminishing return.
But coupled with a completely redesigned power circuit, everything adds up.
I think we all understand that high end audio is about matching system performance, so the same principle applies to board level components.
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Nice. Have you considered doing some quantitative tests like those done by audiosciencereview.com ? I see that the oppo 205 had a better implementation of the ess chip than many of the cheaper ones due to better power etc . Maybe this EVO dac is even better?
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Functionally, is this new device similar to a dac10?
Here is why I ask: I’m somewhat new to using a DAC/preamp as I have a wonderful preamp and a great integrated, so using a DAC/preamp is something I don’t think I need.
Had I understood a dac10 or similar device could be used instead of a preamp, I’d likely not have bought my preamp a few months back.
So, again, apart from the new design, functionally, are the two more or less the same as I use only a Node 2 streamer and a cdt 8 pro as sources?
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Nice. Have you considered doing some quantitative tests like those done by audiosciencereview.com ? I see that the oppo 205 had a better implementation of the ess chip than many of the cheaper ones due to better power etc . Maybe this EVO dac is even better?
We don't do many reviews (indirectly they cost $$$$$, it is not free guys). We know our own standard (DAC-10 was Product Of The Year).
Sure, eventually there will be a review for Evo DAC, but that might take 6 months. We have Evo One and CDP-9 under review, so no way another one can happen for another 6, perhaps 12 months. I am referring to US review, other countries could have the review done much sooner.
Some of you will buy Evo DAC and post your comment here.
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Well, I really, really like my dac10 and cdt 8 pro, and hope to buy more Nuprime products. I was not familiar with Nuprime until recently. Another reall plus is John Casler, a great guy. 👍
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Well, I really, really like my dac10 and cdt 8 pro, and hope to buy more Nuprime products. I was not familiar with Nuprime until recently. Another reall plus is John Casler, a great guy. 👍
You're too kind, but I try to help NuPRIME customers get what they might want or need.
I will say this, that I and other participating (independent, not online) dealers can likely offer you an attractive upgrade/trade up package for your DAC-10 and or DAC-9 units.
Contact me, or your dealer if you are interested.
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Jason or John
have not you thought of a button that can disable internal filters and make it NOS?
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Jason or John
have not you thought of a button that can disable internal filters and make it NOS?
What? No, we designed it this way. There are some things that we allow people to try (op-amps are mounted on socket), and then there are things that are part of the overall design and any changes will void the warranty.
The product page is up on the site now: https://nuprimeaudio.com/product/evo-dac/ (https://nuprimeaudio.com/product/evo-dac/)
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Sorry for the dumb questions but this is all new to me.
Can it be used as a pure DAC like my dac10?
If so, in the pure DAC mode, does it provide mqa decoding to all outputs, not just usb? (I use a Bluesound node 2, and Tidal)
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Also, is there a remote as the product listing is silent?
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I suspect it works just like the Oppo Sonica, W4S DAC-2, Directstream and others with a "digital" volume control using the DAC chips volume function. If you don't want to use the DAC as a control center you set the volume to a fixed level just like the DAC-10. As to remote wouldn't be surprised to see the same wand we are accustomed to. It's durable and works.
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Thanks. The wand remote is funky but functional.
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Can the software/firmware be upgraded?
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Web page says so!
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Web page says so!
Regarding firmware updates the website states: "USB Audio Firmware: upgradable via USB DFU tool". Sounds like that would only apply to the USB input and not the DAC's conversion functionality which is chip based, unlike that of some FPGA based DACs.
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Love the clean look of the NuForce MCP/MCA-18. This will definitely be a DAC on my radar to checkout.
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Are there any pictures of the rear side of the DAC? The product page does not show any...
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Yes, the back panel photo is there. You have to scroll to the last image.
BTW, we corrected the retail price to $3250 USD / 3500 Euro
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Rusty, please consider my questions, above! Thanks
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Well, I really, really like my dac10 and cdt 8 pro, and hope to buy more Nuprime products. I was not familiar with Nuprime until recently. Another reall plus is John Casler, a great guy. 👍
I second that. My experience has been great and is very helpful. Hopefully I can get into NuPrime products now. I have quite a few NuForce products.
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We don't do many reviews (indirectly they cost $$$$$, it is not free guys). We know our own standard (DAC-10 was Product Of The Year).
Sure, eventually there will be a review for Evo DAC, but that might take 6 months. We have Evo One and CDP-9 under review, so no way another one can happen for another 6, perhaps 12 months. I am referring to US review, other countries could have the review done much sooner.
Some of you will buy Evo DAC and post your comment here.
A review by Darko Audio (https://darko.audio/) would be great to see. In my opinion, this is the number one reference for DAC reviews.
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Rusty, this looks wonderful, but I’ve got to know! Is mqa decoding a available from any source, not just usb? Thanks
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Can the WR100D be used with one of the digital inputs of the Evolution DAC?
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MQA for hardware decoding is only available through USB.
WR-100D can only be connected to EVO DAC through standard optical port (and thus will required its own 5V power).
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WR-100D can only be connected to EVO DAC through standard optical port (and thus will required its own 5V power).
why only in evo dac?
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I’m a bit new to all this. So, one would connect a laptop to the usb to play mqa?
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I’m a bit new to all this. So, one would connect a laptop to the usb to play mqa?
You could, but if you are using such a high-end DAC, I would not recommend to use a notebook/laptop. Instead, use a networked audio adaptor like the "Sonore ultraRendu" or the "SOtm sMS-200ultra" (of course, both of them using an external linear power suply). Also, a good streaming client such as "Roon Labs" is highly recommended. Other wise, it is just saving money on the wrong parts...
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I’m listening! As I said, I’m new to all this so got any product links?
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ultraRendu:
http://www.sonore.us/ultraRendu.html
Power Supply for ultraRendu:
https://uptoneaudio.com/products/ultracap-lps-1-2
Roon Labs client:
https://roonlabs.com/
If you are spending EUR 3,500.00 for a DAC, don't save money on the streamer...
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Thanks, and I agree: the problem is that I’m only now learning of all these devices. So, thanks for the education. I have ordered the Evolution and will report on it shortly after I get it.
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Rusty, while waiting for my Evolution I’d appreciate it if you posted the manual so I can get ready! Thanks
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You are a brave soul buying a $3500 DAC that only a handful of people have heard before you.
Looking forward to your impressions.
Rafa.
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Well, I have the 10, which sounds wonderful. I suspect I’ve not erred. 🙀
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Evolution DAC is only shipping end of this month.
I think we have been very straight forward with information and accurate in presenting the quality and features differences between our products so people trust what I say :thumb:
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Post the manual, please! I can’t wait.
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Evolution DAC is only shipping end of this month.
I think we have been very straight forward with information and accurate in presenting the quality and features differences between our products so people trust what I say :thumb:
Rusty, we believe! I can’t wait. Say, would you sign it for me? Really. 👍🏻
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Interesting topic! I highly recommend for you music enthusiasts to check the best quality speakers to date artisanacoustics.net and I am pretty sure you guys will love it!
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Nearly completed manual here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/639y6vifqnhhoyw/Evo%20DAC%20Manual%202018.11.21%20V2%20Web.pdf?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/639y6vifqnhhoyw/Evo%20DAC%20Manual%202018.11.21%20V2%20Web.pdf?dl=0)
You can change the phase, change the gain (volume control variable, Line Out Fixed with Max 8V or Max 4V), even change the channels (L/R, R/L, LL, RR). I have been wondering what's the point for LL or RR configuration. It turns out that if you have too much money, you can use dual DACs for active cross over or bi-amping.
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:D
Thanks.
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Regarding the 7 types of digital filter, it is part of the ESS9038 design, honestly we can't tell the difference.
Since the OpAmp can be DIY replaced, so I am sure this topic will keep growing after we start shipping Evolution DAC next week.
You can tweak until your face turn blue.
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What type of OpAmps is it using? Which is the factory-installed OpAmp?
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When, next week? Now I’ll not sleep....
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Rusty, will I be able to connect my cdt 8 pro to my Evolution DAC via the hdmi like output/input?
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Yes, one of the EVO inputs is a hdmi i2s input
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Shipping? :popcorn:
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Rusty, are we there, yet? :scratch: :D
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Rusty? :popcorn:
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Last update I received for a Projected ship date for those with orders currently in the pipeline is around the end of the week.
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Manual now on the site!
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Rusty! :popcorn:
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Probably one of the mechanical parts got delayed and that pushed out the schedule.
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When, please. I will be traveling soon.
As you might imagine, this creates a real problem for me.
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Rusty, I must know if this is further delayed since I must make plans. I’ll be traveling. If you want to send me a pm, please do!
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I'm sorry you are going through this. When I said you were a brave man buying something no one had heard, I should also have warned about the enthusiasm here of announcing products and then having us wait for weeks, months, or... in the case of Omnia, more than a year.
Again, sorry for your current situation, hope everything turns out good for you.
Rafa.
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I’m sorry I brought this up. Sadly, my wife dictates to me when we travel, and sprung this on me. But, I’ve got John Casler on my side!
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I'm sorry you are going through this. When I said you were a brave man buying something no one had heard, I should also have warned about the enthusiasm here of announcing products and then having us wait for weeks, months, or... in the case of Omnia, more than a year.
Again, sorry for your current situation, hope everything turns out good for you.
Rafa.
I think you are confusing the issues. We use this forum as a place to communicate with customers, soliciting feedback (such as Pure AC), or announce new products.
Evolution DAC is a brand new products and the ship date was originally scheduled for end of November. But due to supply chain problem (Taiwan factories are benefiting from the US tariff, so that created a backlog), last minute delay from supplier caused a 2 weeks delay. This is PERFECTLY NORMAL in manufacturing.
Evolution DAC is shipping now. If anyone who needs to know about shipping, please contact your dealer, he might know more than me. I have no idea who gets what in a particular week.
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Rusty, that’s wonderful news and I can’t wait to hear it. I’m sorry for posting-I started to get antsy when my wife hit me with the trip and I feared John and I wouldn’t have time to coordinate the delivery. Nothing like the fear of a porch pirate making off with one’s Nuprime Evolution DAC while they are 3000 miles away.
I’m hoping John Casler has been informed of this, and thanks for posting.
But the way, I’ve been to Taiwan on a cruise and loved it. My father was in the Army Air Corp and flew transports. He told stories of carrying Chang’s troops around Burma and China. It was kind of a full circle when I visited Taiwan and saw many war memorials.
Anyway, Happy Holidays! 😺
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But, I’ve got John Casler on my side!
Yes you do.
Just got word your and some other EVO DACs are shipping tomorrow or Friday. :banana piano:
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You guys are tops. :thumb:
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Congrats Samoyed. If it is coming DHL straight from Taiwan you should have it first of the week and can let it break in while you're gone.
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Sound of nail biting... :thumb:
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Shipped today for Wednesday delivery. It will be sleepless in Seattle for me. Thanks Nuprime dudes, and the ever diligent John Casler! Merry Christmas to me, and to all. Lay review next year. :popcorn:
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Just set it up. Perfect packaging, and the unit’s workmanship is lovely. No paper manual, so either it was omitted or this one is only on line. I’m having trouble finding unit gain.
Initial impressions of the sound with the cdt 8 pro, using an hdmi cable, are:
1. Lovely liquid sound, slightly more so than the DAC 10;
2. Better soundstage and detail than the 10; and,
3. Amazing detail that comes up out of total silence!
More to come....
:thumb:
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OMG, the detail!
OMG, the tight, lovely bass!
The complete, shocking clarity of the music!
(KEF R900 speakers; Transparent speaker cables; Cardas light xlr interconnects; Kinki ex M1 integrated; hdmi included with Nuprime cdt 8 Pro; nuprime cdt 8pro)
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Rusty, what is unity gain on this one? You guys knocked it out of the park with this one. Your description as more evolutionary than revolutionary is bang on, but the sound and detail are lovely!
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DAC-10 is already so good, so there isn't any particular weakness with DAC-10.
What I can hear is Evo DAC opens up another layer of clarity (that you never know it was there, that's the interesting thing about high end audio).
I think main improvement comes from the power supply and power circuit. There are quite a few implementation of ESS9038 on the market and the result is all over the place (without disparaging competitors). The performance of ESS9038 over 9028 and 9018 is minor, due to diminishing return.
But coupled with a completely redesigned power circuit, everything adds up.
I think we all understand that high end audio is about matching system performance, so the same principle applies to board level components.
This is what I’m hearing, a NEW and higher level of clarity, detail and soundstage!
As for warmth, for me the 10 had it, so I’m not hearing anything new, here.
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Just set it up. Perfect packaging, and the unit’s workmanship is lovely. No paper manual, so either it was omitted or this one is only on line. I’m having trouble finding unit gain.
Initial impressions of the sound with the cdt 8 pro, using an hdmi cable, are:
1. Lovely liquid sound, slightly more so than the DAC 10;
2. Better soundstage and detail than the 10; and,
3. Amazing detail that comes up out of total silence!
More to come....
:thumb:
Congratulations, Samoyed. The Evo Dac looks excellent. I love my IDA-16 and I'm really hoping that the NuPrime team takes what they have done with the Evolution line and create an Evolution integrated amp/Dac.
Enjoy the music.
Cheers,
Scott
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@samac I would buy that integrated in a heartbeat. I am super happy with my HD-AVA (IDA16 guts)! Hence would be a good upgrade if it has the upsampling. That and the CDT8
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All the Roadrunning. Emmylou Hariris and Mark Knophler. Detail, soundstage and speed are fantastic! :D
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Great to hear you finally got your DAC Samoyed and that you are enjoying it so much! That is the only thing that matters: that we finally get to enjoy the music we so much like to hear.
Good luck,
Rafa.
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Oh, by the way... I have asked this before but, what are the factory installed OpAmps that come with the EvoDac? What are the options for OpAmp rolling?
Thanks,
Rafa.
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@samac I would buy that integrated in a heartbeat. I am super happy with my HD-AVA (IDA16 guts)! Hence would be a good upgrade if it has the upsampling. That and the CDT8
You have a great set-up, envydd. :thumb: NuPrime has a great line-up already but, like you, I am looking forward to what they might developed in the "super integrated" category. After living with the IDA-16 for nearly two years I am convinced I want to stay with a one box amp/dac solution for my system. :thumb:
Cheers,
Scott
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I am going to provide (1) a preliminary review of the Nuprime Evolution DAC, and (2) compare it to the only other free standing DAC I’ve owned, the Nuprime DAC10. My review should be weighed by my experience, beginning in 1969 with the original AR integrated amp, and the understanding that I’ve only gone “all” digital six months ago, with a Bluesound Node 2. I am a layman and hobbyist, new to streaming and all that implies. The Evolution and a Nuprime CDT 8 Pro are now connected to a Kinki Studio’s EX M1, which also uses a Bluesound Node 2 , and the speakers are KEF R900’s connected with Transparent cables. In time I’ll try it with a Rotel RC 1590 and RB 1590.
I will start with my preliminary conclusions:
The on-line manual is inadequate for my purposes in that it appears to assume the consumer has more than a basic understanding of a dac/preamp’s functions;
Workmanship of the exterior is excellent and very attractive in black;
The remote is far superior to the old “wand” style of the DAC10, and is powered by simple, AAA batteries, unlike the wand, which are included; and,
The sound with red book compact discs, the only source yet tried, played through a CDT Pro 8, is nothing less than absolutely wonderful, as if yet another step closer has been taken toward live music-it is as described by a Nuprime poster, a further “evolution” over the outstanding DAC10. (The same poster describes the EVO’s sound as warm, versus the DAC10, yet I found the tonality very similar, though mid-range male and female vocals do sound better with the EVO.)
Fedex delivered the Evolution quickly. It left Taiwan on a Friday, and arrived at my Seattle home the next Monday. It was packed in a well-padded, fitted box, inside a thick cardboard box. The inner box contained a thick power cord, a metal remote identical in form to that of the CDT 8 Pro, two AAA batteries and the DAC. The DAC is enclosed in an opaque, white plastic bag, with several moisture absorbing bags. The remote and power cord are neatly stowed underneath the DAC.
I was struck by how heavy the Evolution is, and its beautiful black finish that is identical to my CDT 8 Pro. The on-line manual (I did not receive a paper version) advises one to determine proper local voltage and a sticker on the DAC warns that it is set to 220 volts, and the bottom mounted switch should be properly set. I set mine for U.S. voltage, put it in place in my Salamander and made a power connection. My Kinki Studios EX M1 is an integrated amp, and I used Cardas Clear Light XLR cables to connect the DAC to it, with Nuprime’s HDMI cable used to connect the CDT 8 Pro to the DAC. The visual combination is very, very pleasing and consistent.
After making all necessary connections, I turned the rear mounted power switch on, and a blue led lit, showing the DAC was in standby. I then used the remote to turn it on, and got the bonus: my LG OLED tv came on, too! (I’m still pondering how deal with that….) The display showed a usb input, and began counting the volume up to 50. I used the input knob, not the remote, to select the HDMI input, and set it to 94, assuming that would be close to unity gain as with the DAC 10. (I’m still trying to figure out if I should use a fixed output.) I started a CD and the Kinki came to life, much louder than the DAC 10 with similar settings.
I tried some of the many menu settings and quickly gave up to listen. What I heard and am hearing is hard to explain-the music simply flows in a very liquid, pleasing manner, with a very WIDE and detailed soundstage. As good as I think the DAC10 sounds (compared to the dac in my Rotel RC 1590 and Bluesound Node 2), this one is truly an “evolution” above it. I’m hearing details in CD’s I hadn’t heard before, and strings are lovely. I enjoy organs recorded in churches, and the sense of space and decay is astonishing-it’s like something intangible that just sits in the room! You can point to its invisible boundaries! If you have a good recording, everything is positioned in the stereo image with great accuracy and separation. You can easily tell how many people are singing, and where they are in the field. Again, it is hard to describe the overall effect, but voices are lovely and you immediately know it is superior to the DAC 10. (I have a Rotel RC 1590 preamp and RB 1590 amp that I’ll try, next.)
Sum: I may or may not need the preamp section (that remains to be seen), but it is stunningly quiet and well-designed, and the DAC provides the most natural, liquid and DETAILED musical sound I’ve heard in nearly 50 years of this hobby. Am I glad I bought it? Hell, yes! (After the first of the year, I’ll report back.)
If you want Nuprime, look up John Casler, or pm me for details. The combination of Nuprime and John is as good as it gets! :thumb:
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You must like your Kinki integrated too.
Does Evolution have a volume control?
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The Kinki is great!
Yes, the Evolution has a very sophisticated volume control, both on the DAC and its remote.
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Oh, by the way... I have asked this before but, what are the factory installed OpAmps that come with the EvoDac? What are the options for OpAmp rolling?
Thanks,
Rafa.
In due time, our engineers are too busy and I am tied up with so much marketing work to do. If you open up and can't figure out the opamp pins by looking at the circuit board, then you shouldn't be changing it. The OpAmp has markings on it, so you can look up the spec online.
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Rusty, where is unity gain? Thanks
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I have to find out from R&D about unity gain.
By the way, there should be a paper manual inside but I think they forgot to put it in, or the manual couldn't make it in time.
Is there anyone with Evo DAC and Evo One set?
I think it will be mid year or later for the ultimate integrated. The R&D process is always to develop the latest state of the art, and then trickle down to other lower level products.
Evo One brought innovation in amp and input impedance designs.
Evo DAC brought innovation in power supply and filter designs (the DAC chip is just an incremental update).
Omnia S1 will bring the very long delayed Android core (for media server, streaming, app) in the products.
The high end integrated will be a combination of all these innovations in a well integrated compromised design.
Even if you only have the 9 series, the upcoming Pure AC-4 power filter device could make the entire stack of components sound better.
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I did NOT get a paper manual with my Evo DAC.
I’d appreciate info on unity gain when you can get it.
In the meantime, I’ll continue to enjoy it!
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I’m listening to the Evo DAC right now.
Lovely!
But, I disagree: it is several steps above the dac10 in sound, and I absolutely loved the dac10.
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Thanks for the update on the Ultimate/IDA-32 integrated, Jason.
Cheers,
Scott
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I have to find out from R&D about unity gain.
By the way, there should be a paper manual inside but I think they forgot to put it in, or the manual couldn't make it in time.
Is there anyone with Evo DAC and Evo One set?
I think it will be mid year or later for the ultimate integrated. The R&D process is always to develop the latest state of the art, and then trickle down to other lower level products.
Evo One brought innovation in amp and input impedance designs.
Evo DAC brought innovation in power supply and filter designs (the DAC chip is just an incremental update).
Omnia S1 will bring the very long delayed Android core (for media server, streaming, app) in the products.
The high end integrated will be a combination of all these innovations in a well integrated compromised design.
Even if you only have the 9 series, the upcoming Pure AC-4 power filter device could make the entire stack of components sound better.
Why didn't Evo One use the same power supply design as Evo Dac does?
Does this new power supply design only work for DAC?
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Why didn't Evo One use the same power supply design as Evo Dac does?
Does this new power supply design only work for DAC?
One is a DAC with low power requirement, the other is an amp :scratch:
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One is a DAC with low power requirement, the other is an amp :scratch:
I was asking because I thought Pure AC-4's technology comes from the latest Evo's power supply, but didn't know the power supply design is different on Evo One and Evo Dac.
I'm interested to know would Pure AC-4 have a positive effect on both Dac and Amp, but I think it is a bit off topic here.
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We should provide an article on Power Supplies, hopefully, we will have one available before Feb 2019.
Power Supply is just a general term and it refers to many designs ranging from high voltage/high current AC adapter (ie. AC/DC) to DC/DC converter chips. For AC adapters there are two different designs: Linear or Switching.
Furthermore, power and ground layout has a very significant impact on performance.
Just like software (database, UI, smartphone app, device driver, ...), power engineering is a huge area where engineers only specialize in a specific area. And it is often overlooked in many audio designs. And customers ended up spending too much on power cords and other external noise filtering devices.
Think of the device as a city. The most challenging is integrated amp where you have a mix of high power amp circuit and sensitive DAC circuit. How can you have a quiet bike only neighborhood next to a race track? :duh: So that means putting up sound barriers (ie noise filter) like those you see along the highway, and very carefully route your traffic (ie power and ground wires). The reality is much more complex than this analogy.
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Unity gain?
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Our engineers are not too sure what you want, so this is the answer they gave:
0 dB=2 Vrms with Volume=87; +6 dB=4 Vrms with Volume=99
Note that each of our DAC has its own non-linear volume curve (it is not incrementing linearly with 0.5 dB)
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Thanks!
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Has anyone tried using the Evo Dac's volume control directly into a power amp? I'm moving to a Pass XA-25 amp and am seriously thinking of using the Evo Dac directly in. Your thoughts?
Tom
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I’ll let you know in a week. I’m traveling but plan to try a Rotel rb1590 on return.
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Has anyone tried using the Evo Dac's volume control directly into a power amp? I'm moving to a Pass XA-25 amp and am seriously thinking of using the Evo Dac directly in. Your thoughts?
Tom
I just delivered the Evo DAC to one of my favorite Customers with a pair of Evo Monoblocs, and he reads AC, so we may be getting a mini-report shortly.
His is an "all NuPRIME" system, with a CDT-8 PRO, Evo DAC, and Evo Monoblocs.
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CDT pro 8 sounds wonderful with the evo dac and 12s connection.
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Our engineers are not too sure what you want, so this is the answer they gave:
0 dB=2 Vrms with Volume=87; +6 dB=4 Vrms with Volume=99
Note that each of our DAC has its own non-linear volume curve (it is not incrementing linearly with 0.5 dB)
Works great! Thanks.
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Well, I’m delighted with this DAC. I’m waiting on an Innuos zen mini streamer, and I’ll continue the preliminary review.
Two things: I wish I had a paper manual, but the on line copy seems really to give short shrift to all the features and how to use each, and here is the level of detail I BELIEVE I’m hearing-when a singer turns slightly from the mic you can tell! Wow. 😺
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The paper manual and online manual are exactly the same.
There are some features like phase change and if you don't know what it is, or not sure you need to change it, don't touch it.
Tell me what more you think are missing from the manual and I will write FAQ to cover it.
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Yes, I know, but I’d like a paper one. Someday, when you don’t see so well, you’ll understand. My point is that the manual is incomplete. I understand phase, and that is a very minor example of what is incomplete.
I’m reminded of an old saw: I once was as you are now. As I am now, so shall you be.
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Rusty, can I use the Evolution dac as a preamp to directly drive a Rotel RB 1590 amp?
Continuing with my journey with the Evolution, while waiting on the Innuos zen mini, I had an interesting experience yesterday.
I’m using a Bluesound Node 2, with coax, and Tidal, connected with xlr cables to a Kinki ex M1 integrated.
Let me say I’ve never believed in solid state burn in. I have no basis for this other than experience.
About three hours in, there was a very sudden change in the sound stage. It seemed I was completely enveloped in a “cloud” of sound, as if I were literally sitting in the room with the performers. I use the term cloud to describe the boundaries of the effect, since the music was clear and very realistic. It was what I regard as 3d, and I was stunned. I have no idea how many hours I have on the DAC, but this was so quick I couldn’t believe it.
I’m very happy to have bought this DAC.
Back to the manual, and I’ll not bring this up, again. Most instructions are conclusory in form, without the steps required to get there. Also, I merely suspect there are many undocumented or partially documented features I can’t find or infer, so for me to point them out begs the question, and wrongly assumes I know or can infer their existence.
I’d still love a paper manual....
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Rusty, can I use the Evolution dac as a preamp to directly drive a Rotel RB 1590 amp?
YES. . . .that is EXACTLY what the EVO DAC is for.
As long as it has the Preamp Properties you need (no analog input) it is the BEST you will find in the price point or far above.
Might be time to consider selling the Rotel, and the Kinki ex M1. and go FULL EVO.
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Yes, I’m headed that way quickly. I can only hide so much from She Who Must Be Obeyed....🙀
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Wow, John, the Evolution DAC and Rotel RB 1590 sound wonderful. This DAC/pre is worth every dollar!
Now, if I could just get the remote to stop turning on my LG OLED.... :duh:
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Note to buyers-use this as a preamp! It is lovely, fluid, extremely detailed, and the soundstage is enormous and deep!
Now, to my problem: I have a lovely Kinki ex M1 to get rid of, which, with typical source inputs sounds wonderful. I thought it sounded great using this as a DAC, but wow, the Evo shines as a preamp and a DAC. 👍
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Rusty, any chance of a faq or post explaining the specifications of the various filters?
I think my goal is an “all” Nuprime system as I love the looks, function, sound and workmanship.
I’m considering two st10m amps to go with the Evolution DAC and I hope you and John comment. My speakers are KEF 900s.
Thanks
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Rusty, any chance of a faq or post explaining the specifications of the various filters?
No. Because it is our design secrets and specific to Evo DAC's power requirement. In the Pure AC-4 (I think every NuPrime customer shoud get one, it only retails for $649, coming out soon) we have different AC Filter design then those in Evo DAC.
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Not the ac filters but the ess DAC filters, such as brick wall, etc. I have read about the various DAC filters in other places and wonder what each does. The on line manual simply names each, but not their specs. For example, which frequencies does the brick wall affect, and so on.
Page 9 of the manual lists 7 ‘digital filters” and it would be helpful to have the specs for each.
I do NOT desire design information of any kind.
Thanks
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Oh, those. I was wondering about them too, so I asked our engineer.
His answer: can't tell the difference in sound, don't play with it, they are not relevant for music listening.
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Well, now I feel better.... :(
So, what do you think about pairing this DAC with two st10ms? I can't hide the cost of two Evolution ones, nor justify them with KEF R900’s.
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It is hard to get any better than this DAC, and ST-10M are very good, next to Evolution One. Definitely works well.
Evolution DAC and STA-9 would not be a good match since STA-9 is warmer and not quite in the same level as the Evolution series.
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Thanks. Now, the plotting begins. 🙀
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Well, now I feel better.... :(
So, what do you think about pairing this DAC with two st10ms? I can't hide the cost of two Evolution ones, nor justify them with KEF R900’s.
That would be a wonderful idea (pair of ST10M), but if you can find buyers for the Kinki and Rotel, I think we could possibly get you into the EVO ONES.
:thumb:
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Yikes! :thumb:
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I hope you can pull it off as I have an ST-10 and the Kinki.
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Me, too. If I get caught, I’m sunk. But, it is said confession is good for the soul. I’ll tell you the Evolution DAC is so good as a preamp it is shocking. It’s too bad the Kinki doesn’t let you bypass the preamp. But, I’d probably go all Nuprime anyway.
So, now, how to sell a Rotel RC 1590, RB 1590, RCD 1572 and a Kinki EX M1? :duh:
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Don't know about the Rotel gear but the Kinki should be easy.
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Where to start....
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I think I'd list the Rotel gear first as a package deal here, A'gon and US Audiomart and break it up if you have to and then sell the Kinki after you get the new amps from John. The Kinki is in a price range used where there should be a number of people that just want to try it not knowing how good it really is. Mine goes into service when the temperature in North Florida really climbs up to the mid-90's and the heat from the BHK gets to be too much.
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My Innuos Zen Mini should be here late next week, and I’ll finish the review. Mqa is one of the reasons I bought this DAC.
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.... Mqa is one of the reasons I bought this DAC.
We don't want to get into the MQA debate so please take my comment as purely from engineering standpoint.
What we learned during the implementation of MQA is that a newer XMOS USB communication chip does the so called MQA unfolding (lets just call it decoding). I have done all sorts of programming in my early career from CPU level assembly code, firmware, C++, Java and client scripts. So, is there any difference between doing the decoding by the player on the computer versus on the USB chip ? I don't think so.
I will like you to compare decoding MQA from the computer versus decoding on Evo DAC whether you can hear any difference. My point is that if you like the sound characteristic of MQA, go ahead and subscribe to this compression streaming service. But I doubt MQA DAC is necessary.
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Actually, I’m just waiting on the Mini Zen so I can buy Roon and finish the review. I have used Tidal for months and very much like mqa via a node 2.
I’ll be happy to compare butmay need your help. I have an Apple laptop. I hope to use the mqa function of the Evolution DAC, permanently. The Innuos will simply be the raw source, and storage for my cds.
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Actually, I’m just waiting on the Mini Zen so I can buy Roon and finish the review. I have used Tidal for months and very much like mqa via a node 2.
I’ll be happy to compare butmay need your help. I have an Apple laptop. I hope to use the mqa function of the Evolution DAC, permanently. The Innuos will simply be the raw source, and storage for my cds.
Have you ever tried the Node 2 straight into your amp?
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Yes. The node 2 will be sold. I enjoy it, but the Innuous should better integrate my cd collection.
Also, goal is a pair of evolution ones.
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I recently purchased an Evolution DAC and, like others, have noticed an increased level of clarity compared to the DAC 10 which I previously owned. In addition, I have also noticed that with the Evolution DAC my subwoofer integrates better with my satellite monitors.
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Yup. 👍🤑
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I recently purchased an Evolution DAC and, like others, have noticed an increased level of clarity compared to the DAC 10 which I previously owned. In addition, I have also noticed that with the Evolution DAC my subwoofer integrates better with my satellite monitors.
In case anyone is interested, I might point out, that Bob is one of the few, who have a PURE NuPRIME system consisting of the following:
1) NuPRIME CDT-8 Pro
2) EVOLUTION DAC
3) Pair of EVOLUTION ONE monoblocs.
A spectacular system.
He, no doubt, is hearing some incredible sonic information.
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My Evo DAC and cdt 8 are spectacular. I’m working toward the Evo ones....
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Even though John Ransley is a dealer, he has established a long track record of reliable and well-grounded reviews that his customers (and even readers outside of New Zealand) come to depend on for his recommendation.
In this latest review of Evolution DAC, he went into excruciating details section by section, correlating with what he has heard and compared with other devices.
https://totallywired.nz/nuprime-2/nuprime_evolution_dac/ (https://totallywired.nz/nuprime-2/nuprime_evolution_dac/)
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Great review! Two points stood out as mirroring my experience: first, what he calls fluidity, or I called a liquid like precision, and secondly, the sudden onset of increased sound stage-from better than the dac10 to exponentially better. :thumb: His many conclusions are also spot on. Great design work, Nuprime! I wish he’d gone into the MQA function but the streamer limited him. Anyway, as he said, the PREAMP is a winner, too!
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Great review! Two points stood out as mirroring my experience: first, what he calls fluidity, or I called a liquid like precision, and secondly, the sudden onset of increased sound stage-from better than the dac10 to exponentially better. :thumb: His many conclusions are also spot on. Great design work, Nuprime! I wish he’d gone into the MQA function but the streamer limited him. Anyway, as he said, the PREAMP is a winner, too!
Since I believe you've been using the BS Node 2's coaxial digital output into the Evo DAC, can you please confirm whether the DAC is providing full MQA decoding (i.e. display shows MQA 192kHz or higher) when streaming Tidal MQA files from the Node? TIA for sharing your experience with it, I'm giving some serious thought to acquiring the Evo DAC myself.
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Maybe I’m doing something wrong but I get 96k. As I understand it, mqa is only available as a usb input, hence I have an Innuous Zen Mini on the way....
Frankly, 96k sounds great through this DAC.
I don’t want to influence you...yeah, I do-buy it!
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MQA is only for USB input, as I have explained it couple of posts earlier, the decoding is done in the XMOS USB chip.
You could have performed the decoding on the PC, I believe the outcome is just the same (how can an USB comm. chip decode better than a powerful PC?).
Give both methods a try and let us know.
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Yes, I will, when the Innuous arrives....
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So you're still getting MQA Core (the first unfold) courtesy of the Node via its coaxial output to the Evo DAC. Using a server with a USB output and Tidal support you would be able to get full MQA decoding. Thanks for the clarification to you both!
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Well, I’m 20 years too late to the party and trying to catch up, but that’s my understanding. I use Tidal, and plan to use Roon with the Innuos for mqa per its engineer.
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Finally, my Innuos Zen Mini is scheduled for delivery tomorrow. I can’t wait to hear Tidal/mqa through this lovely dac!
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Finally, my Innuos Zen Mini is scheduled for delivery tomorrow. I can’t wait to hear Tidal/mqa through this lovely dac!
Great.
Can I ask which transport / streamer you had up to now?
regards,
Simon
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Bluesound node 2.
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Good news: the zen mini arrived, and Roon functions with a usb connection. Bad news: I can’t get mqa to function on the Evo!
:duh:
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Good news: the zen mini arrived, and Roon functions with a usb connection. Bad news: I can’t get mqa to function on the Evo!
:duh:
Sorry to hear that MQA isn't working for you so far... I'm not familiar with the Zen mini so you might have to check with a dealer or their customer support, but I believe there are two possible ways for it to provide full MQA decoding with the EVO DAC. First would be to set the Zen to pass through MQA files without any decoding and allow the EVO DAC to provide full MQA decoding on its own. The second possibility would be to set the Zen to provide MQA Core decoding (the first unfold) and then let the EVO DAC perform MQA Rendering which would result in full MQA decoding. One of these ways should work, of course as previously indicated the EVO only supports MQA decoding from its USB input. Good luck and let us know how it works out.
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Thanks! I defeated mqa in Roon as to the zen and enabled full mqa for the DAC. The DAC now shows “MQA Studio 44.1k”
So, I’m wondering, should 44.1 be higher?
It sounds quite good!
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Now, “MQA 96k” with a different album.
What’s going on?
Thanks!
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OK. Roon integrates quite well with Tidal. Tidal masters show up with their MQA spec viz kilohertz. I’m very, very happy with the sound and the kind assistance provided above! More to follow.
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Real, deep and tight bass, and lovely detail not heard with the Bluesound. :thumb:
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Every MQA album can be a different resolution. As long as it matches what the Tidal screen says it is on the DAC readout you are good.
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Thanks! It appears the evo dac is functioning as it should. I really love this dac, and it’s too bad I didn’t keep up for the last 20 years, but I’m thankful for you guys!
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Glad that you got it working with MQA, enjoy the tunes in the best of health! :thumb:
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You get all the credit. Listening to a Magnificat album right now at 352! The dac exactly tracks what a Tidal/Roon report.
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You get all the credit. Listening to a Magnificat album right now at 352! The dac exactly tracks what a Tidal/Roon report.
Now that it's displaying 352kHz I'm certain you have it configured correctly and are getting the benefits of full MQA decoding! :D
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Man, if this mqa stuff is a scam, I’m glad to be fooled! I’m looking forward to the day I can acquire two evo ones and use this dac as a preamp.
As good as I thought mqa was from the node 2, this is magnitudes better in every possible way. The bass will shake your guts! The sound stage is easily 180 degrees side to side, and deep.
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Alright, having used the zen mini for a day with the Evolution DAC I’m ready to fully and finally commit.
Con: I’d still like a comprehensive manual, that fully explains each function, without being conclusory.
What remains is one of the finest HiFi components I’ve ever had, or heard, since 1969, including McIntosh. The workmanship is first rate, and the case stunningly simple and beautiful. The dac functions flawlessly, with every control feeling of superior quality and I can’t wait to begin using it as a preamp. Nuprime clearly designs “systems” into its components so that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts, which, for me means the cdt 8 pro flawlessly fits in via 12s!
Now, the sound of this DAC is super detailed, liquid and projects a wide, deep and credible soundstage. You can point to performers or instruments! I now have NO analogue inputs and love it. The usb/mqa function works wonderfully and I can’t distinguish between a cd and the same file on Tidal with mqa. Yes, Virginia, it IS that good.
I’d like to thank John Casler and Nuprime for enabling me to reach this amazing plateau!
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Is there any way to just use a high quality custom built dedicated media computer with the Roon software. Or would that be counter productive?
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I haven’t a clue. Contact Roon.
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Is there any way to just use a high quality custom built dedicated media computer with the Roon software. Or would that be counter productive?
Yes, it is possible to run Roon core on a single PC in its simplest configuration. There are benefits to running Roon core on a networked server PC and then use the control app on a phone or tablet via WiFi for control, and you can stream high resolution audio over your network to multiple Roon Ready devices. Here's a basic overview of Roon configurations: https://roonlabs.com/howroonworks.html (https://roonlabs.com/howroonworks.html) and more details on the system's architecture here: https://kb.roonlabs.com/Architecture (https://kb.roonlabs.com/Architecture) Hope that helps!
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You could, but if you are using such a high-end DAC, I would not recommend to use a notebook/laptop. Instead, use a networked audio adaptor like the "Sonore ultraRendu" or the "SOtm sMS-200ultra" (of course, both of them using an external linear power suply). Also, a good streaming client such as "Roon Labs" is highly recommended. Other wise, it is just saving money on the wrong parts...
This is why I was asking if I would get good results only using a pc, last thing I would want is a fancy new evo dac and evo amps and be feeding them crap.
My plan would be to source out a quality motherboard with a 19v dc imput, also I would run a external linear power supply (I learned the hard way that power supply noise WILL be a issue) and use a ssd to eliminate any noise that could come from a mechanical hardrive.
I have been building htpc's for over 20 years just never connecting them to any real equiptment.
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Well, sounds like you are set! The Evolution DAC is top drawer!
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I don't feel anywhere near being all set.
last thing I want to do is throw a bunch of money on a low powered passively cooled computer to not like it :) (but I know im going to do it)
Samoyed I can relate to all your comments on bringing (sneaking) equiptment into the house. If my wife sold all my stuff based on what I told her I paid for it. Well there would be some happy buyers out there thats for sure.
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She Who Must Be Obeyed.... :o
Here’s the thing: they know, they always know.
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I was looking into Roon. Besides the fancy expensive interface is there any sound quality advantages to use it?
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I don't feel anywhere near being all set.
last thing I want to do is throw a bunch of money on a low powered passively cooled computer to not like it :) (but I know im going to do it)
Samoyed I can relate to all your comments on bringing (sneaking) equiptment into the house. If my wife sold all my stuff based on what I told her I paid for it. Well there would be some happy buyers out there thats for sure.
I went to a yard sale in Dallas one time. The wife and husband was setting it up. The husband was in the house and I asked his wife how much was the stereo equipment.
$5 a box she said. Her husband almost had a heart attack.
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I Just tried tidal, roon and mqa It was nice but defiantly not in the same league as my hi res files so I needed to hear this in a full setup not how I had it with a pc as everything.
So I went to a high end hifi shop and listened to a very nice setup the mains were b&w 800d3 and the rest was all expensive sim audio components. I think all the nordost interconnects were worth more than my entire system.
They gave me a demo and the source was Roon Streaming tidal Mqa. After 45 min of listening to songs I was very very familiar with I came to a conclusion that the source did the system no justice. Don't get me wrong I think Tidals mqa is great but in my opinion not what this system needs.
My point to this once I get my evo dac and amps I think mqa will not do the system the justice it will deserve also.
It was funny how the shop owner played up mqa as the best thing ever. And got offended when I mentioned it is a very good method of compression :).
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Well, I am taking the plunge. Going to get an EVO DAC. It may be my only opportunity, so I want to make it count.I have always lived by the motto of getting into the best source you can afford, as nothing further down the chain can add back in the missing information.
Reading Samoyed's adventures has me seriously considering the InnuOS as well.
Now the wait begins. :popcorn:
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heard today the new evo dac at the Italian importer
what to say? ..... okay
the dac was connected to a pair of active PSI audio M21 monitors
congratulations on the level of construction.
:notworthy:
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heard today the new evo dac at the Italian importer
what to say? ..... okay
the dac was connected to a pair of active PSI audio M21 monitors
congratulations on the level of construction.
:notworthy:
Thanks for sharing your experience, but not really certain about your impressions of its sound. Were you able to compare it to any other DACs? It's clear you were impressed with its construction quality but would be interested in any other comments regarding its sonic quality. Thanks very much!
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yesterday's was a test on the dac just arrived and put into operation
today if I can go and compare it with the dac 10 (which I have in my system)
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I have a couple questions wonder if anyone knows them.
Does the evo dac use one or two 9038 chips.
Why was a c-transformer used over a Toroidal. A always thought for leakage ei-core -> c-core -> Toroidal
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I have a couple questions wonder if anyone knows them.
Does the evo dac use one or two 9038 chips.
Why was a c-transformer used over a Toroidal. A always thought for leakage ei-core -> c-core -> Toroidal
The NuPrime Evolution DAC uses one ES9038PRO 32-bit, 8-channel DAC chip. Regarding the power supply design, from the website: "The filtered AC power is then fed to the AC power supply that utilizes C-Core transformers which has less stray flux than conventional ring type transformers. The stainless steel enclosures for the power supply provides shielding to minimize the transformer noise interference affecting other sensitive circuitry. A large capacitor bank (around 70,000uF) using specialized capacitors, supplies ample and stable power to the analog and digital circuitry."
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Has anyone compared the evolution dac to the ps audio directstream dac with the snowmass upgrade?
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Has anyone compared the evolution dac to the ps audio directstream dac with the snowmass upgrade?
That would be an interesting comparison! I'm hoping to see more feedback on the Evolution DAC including how it performs relative to other top level DACs. :popcorn:
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Samoyed, if you are watching this thread......which Magnificat album was it that showed 352khz? I am trying to get a handle on whether or not I am getting full MQA when I get my Evo DAC this week.....it has felt like ages since I ordered it. :lol:
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Sorry, the management gave me 30 days for commenting on some guy’s Nuprime sale. I’ll let you know, tommorow when SWMBO lets me turn on my gear.
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Rusty, my Evolution DAC has begun injecting noise into my system at turn on, and turn off. It is like a soft whoosh. How do I get it repaired or replaced? I really love the sound, which remains lovely! Thanks
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Sorry, the management gave me 30 days for commenting on some guy’s Nuprime sale. I’ll let you know, tommorow when SWMBO lets me turn on my gear.
Ouch....30 days in AC prison. Yikes. I no longer have a SWMBO. :lol:
No worries. I am just collecting titles/tracks and their sampling rates so I can figure out whether or not I am getting full MQA. Thank you. My Evo DAC should be hopefully here Tuesday, but for sure by Wednesday.
Sorry to hear of your whooshing issue. I just had the same issue with an IDA-16. It was making a noticeable hissing/whooshing noises that would get worse when I hit mute....the noise would track the display blinking on and off. It turns out it was my powerline conditioner. No idea why......but it is fine now that I plugged it into a different outlet.
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The evo display works great, and shows even authenticated mqa. I’ll let you know in the am if I’m still here.
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OK, look for a bunch of Norwegian names. It appears to have been performed in Trondheim. Your Evo should show what Roon shows for resolution, and the sound is ethereal!
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=191918)
http://www.2l.no/pages/album/106.html
Original source
DXD (352.8kHz/24bit)
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Sorry to hear of your whooshing issue. I just had the same issue with an IDA-16. It was making a noticeable hissing/whooshing noises that would get worse when I hit mute....the noise would track the display blinking on and off. It turns out it was my powerline conditioner. No idea why......but it is fine now that I plugged it into a different outlet.
Another reason to get NuPrime Pure-AC4 :P
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Rusty, what about my issue?
Yes, I will be buying one.
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Contact support and work with them to figure out. If it is just turn on and off woosh, that doesn't sound like a problem.
When you contact support, you have to describe all the diagnostic steps you have taken.
For example connect only Evo DAC to amp only, what happen?
etc. Don't answer me here, contact support.
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Well, this just started about a week ago, without warning. I guess you are saying go to the Nuprime site....
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If it's just a noise when powering on/off I'd suggest considering leaving it powered up all the time. DACs use very little power and generally sound best when left powered on, and only turned off if you won't be using the system for an extended period of time or during thunderstorms.
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Thanks, Bill-it has never been powered down, but operated in “on” or “standby” since new. It is a new thing/issue.
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Ok, Rusty, I completed a ticket but made up a serial number since I’m old, with bad eyes, and too tired this morning to pull the DAC out where I can see it.
I’m a bit displeased at this....
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When fault like this happen, there is not much I can do here remotely. Please provide detail description in the help desk ticket.
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I’ve done that, but I wanted you to be aware of it should you need to intercede. Thanks!
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Ok, Rusty, I completed a ticket but made up a serial number since I’m old, with bad eyes, and too tired this morning to pull the DAC out where I can see it.
I’m a bit displeased at this....
If you have easier access to the shipping box than the back of the DAC it likely includes the S/N for reference.
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Thanks, Bill. Earlier, I sent Nuprime support a photo of a bar code, with numbers, found on the outside. It clearly identifies the contents as a black, Evolution DAC.
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Just received my Evo DAC today. It was quite cold when I hooked it up, and it sounded decidedly meh for the first song or 2. It is now 11 hours later, and I am chuckling or downright giggling at the sound I am getting. The tone, the lifelike presentation, the complete disappearance of my speakers, and the way my daughters kept coming out of their rooms to see who was playing piano, or guitar.....really showed me something. They were fooled in their bedrooms.....and I was playing speakers with not much in the way of dynamic range.
THIS. DAC. IS. A. STONE. COLD. BARGAIN.
I have never made an improvement of this magnitude to my system, ever. And it is matching up incredibly well with my MCX amp.
Hats off to Jason and the design team.....this is amazing!!
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Yes, it does sound wonderful. Have you tried MQA yet?
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Just received my Evo DAC today. It was quite cold when I hooked it up, and it sounded decidedly meh for the first song or 2. It is now 11 hours later, and I am chuckling or downright giggling at the sound I am getting. The tone, the lifelike presentation, the complete disappearance of my speakers, and the way my daughters kept coming out of their rooms to see who was playing piano, or guitar.....really showed me something. They were fooled in their bedrooms.....and I was playing speakers with not much in the way of dynamic range.
THIS. DAC. IS. A. STONE. COLD. BARGAIN.
I have never made an improvement of this magnitude to my system, ever. And it is matching up incredibly well with my MCX amp.
Hats off to Jason and the design team.....this is amazing!!
That's quite an endorsement of its realism and is much appreciated! I'd be curious to know what other DACs you've heard or your system details so we have a point of reference. Thanks for sharing your experience with us and enjoy it in the best of health! :D
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I had a dac10, a rotel rc 1590 DAC, a Bluesound Node 2 and now an Innuous Zen Mini DAC and none come close to the sound stage and detail of the evolution. And, the sound is lovely and liquid.
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That's quite an endorsement of its realism and is much appreciated! I'd be curious to know what other DACs you've heard or your system details so we have a point of reference. Thanks for sharing your experience with us and enjoy it in the best of health! :D
Well, I have had a few of the mid-range Audio-GD DAC's, the NuPrime DAC-9 and DAC-10, plus the internal DAC's in the IDA-8 and IDA-16 (I also have the MCX-4 and STA-9). You could say that NuPrime has a rather loyal customer here.
It's very hard to describe the effect, but it is simply way better than anything else I have listened to. The overriding theme is tone and realism for me. it is at odds with the visual cues....I see speakers, but they seem to have nothing to do with the music I am hearing. On many of the recordings I listened to, it no longer sounded like a very well done reproduction. I feel (at times) like I have snuck into the studio to sit in with the artists, and fortunately they don't see me so they can't call security to get rid of me. :lol:
I will now try to sell off most of the other NuPrime gear, and set my sights on the Evo Ones. I will probably keep the DAC-9 and the IDA-8 (for a small bedroom system) and sell off the rest. I can only imagine how the Evo Ones must sound if the DAC is this spectacular.
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Yes, it does sound wonderful. Have you tried MQA yet?
Not yet. I have the Node 2i, but it is in a different system. I won't be able to get full MQA unless I convert one of my Daphile boxes back to a Windows box so I can use the Tidal desktop version for the first unfold. So that also means back to Foobar (ugh....just couldn't get it the first time I tried), or pay for Roon.
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Rusty, if you are around.....is the Evo DAC capable of native DSD playback (not DoP)? I played a DSD 2.8 test file with the DAC-9, and it correctly showed D2.8 on the front panel. However, when that same file was played through the Evo DAC, it showed PCM 352kHz.
I know from scrolling through the possible sample rates that it has many options to convert PCM to DSD,
Thank you.
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Not yet. I have the Node 2i, but it is in a different system. I won't be able to get full MQA unless I convert one pf my Daphile boxes back to a Windows box so I can use the Tidal desktop version for the first unfold. So that also means back to Foobar (ugh....just couldn't get it the first time I tried), or pay for Roon.
It’s easy for me to spend your money, but buy a Roon license. I resisted and was shocked at how easy it made my life. MQA, despite its detractors, is great through my Evo. You must use usb. Enjoy the DAC, it’s a winner!
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It’s easy for me to spend your money, but buy a Roon license. I resisted and was shocked at how easy it made my life. MQA, despite its detractors, is great through my Evo. You must use usb. Enjoy the DAC, it’s a winner!
Yeah, I think I will - but I have to read up on that first. I think that I can use the Daphile PC as a Roon endpoint with another linux PC running Roon Bridge or Roon Server. I just don't want to spend money on a streamer right now for MQA only if I can make it work without forking out $$$ on top of a Roon license. I may look into Volumio as well because (I believe) Roon integration is rather straightforward.
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Spending more of your money, Roon integrates flawlessly with an Innuous Zen Mini. Don’t bother with the external power supply. One, and you are done.
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Spending more of your money, Roon integrates flawlessly with an Innuous Zen Mini. Don’t bother with the external power supply. One, and you are done.
Oh, I know - it's tempting. I reached out to a dealer, and he said there are no version 2's left in NA, and the version 3 is going to run me into the CDN $2K range when taxes are figured in. That could be put towards the Evo Ones..... :D
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:o
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I’m sending you a pm.
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Using the evo as a pre-amp Can I use the balanced and unbalanced outputs at the same time?
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Are you asking me?
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Shouldn't be any different than with the DAC-10 where you can.
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If you know the answer then I could be asking you :)
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Mine now lives in the box it came in.
I’ll take it out, tomorrow, and see.
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That would be great and I would appreciate it.
Maybe you will decide not to put it back in the box :)
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Using the evo as a pre-amp Can I use the balanced and unbalanced outputs at the same time?
Yes, both XLR and single ended are active
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So I assume I can run the balanced to my amp and unbalance to my subwoofers?
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@sresener:
Already found a replacement from a company whose rep assures me it will treat me respectfully. Some things have no price.
As I told the guy who wound me up for no rational reason, and wrongly imputed things to me, adios.
Ironic, really, as I grew up in the retail industry, and hated warranty claims. My uncle, with many years experience saw this, and told me, “There are no perfect customers. There are just customers. Either you want them or you don’t.”
So true.
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So I assume I can run the balanced to my amp and unbalance to my subwoofers?
Yes
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One is ordered and on the way.
I was curious my bluray player a sony ubpx800 has a hdmi output for audio only. What would be the chances of it being compatible with the IIS input on the evo dac. Would be nice if it did and it would handshake so I could play sacd's :)
If it didnt work could I assemble my own hdmi two channel pin compatable cable out of a cat cable.
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One is ordered and on the way.
I was curious my bluray player a sony ubpx800 has a hdmi output for audio only. What would be the chances of it being compatible with the IIS input on the evo dac. Would be nice if it did and it would handshake so I could play sacd's :)
If it didnt work could I assemble my own hdmi two channel pin compatable cable out of a cat cable.
While the EVO DAC's I2S connection uses an HDMI connector and cable, its wiring is unique to I2S devices and is not compatible with any standard HDMI spec output.
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Not what was asked, but my cdt 8 pro is connected to my Evo with the 12s and it works perfectly.
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Not what was asked, but my cdt 8 pro is connected to my Evo with the 12s and it works perfectly.
As it should since both components have I2S connections.
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And the 12s cable included with the cdt sounds just fine.
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Even though Samoyed decided not to do business with me, I do appreaciate his positive and fair comment about NuPrime products.
John Casler, in the future, I will just let you handle your customer and I stick to my tech support and marketing.
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I’m a very fair minded person. In that light, I’d never have treated a customer with such condescension and arrogance, nor willfully placed one in a false light.
The loser here is John Casler, a top drawer guy.
The issues are separable: the Evolution DAC sounds like a million dollars, even adjusted for inflation.
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Sounds like a million dollars omg thats like a billion in Canadian :)
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If only! I go to BC and Alberta routinely, and no one has offered to give me change. My favorite restaurants are in Vancouver, and the Chateau at Lake Louise my favorite hotel. Wonderful country, with delightful people. :thumb:
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Here is a idea for free advertising for Nuprime.
Audiosciencereview.com is offering free reviews of equipment, his reviews are more scientific and based on measurements taken by quality instruments...... and they are even willing to pay for return shipping.
So all you loose is the cost of shipping and the loss of a item for a couple weeks. If I was producing quality componets like nuprime is, well I would be all over this since there seems to be nothing to loose.
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Just be aware he may zero in on what he calls the 938 hump. Hump or not, mine sounds wonderful.
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Here is a idea for free advertising for Nuprime.
Audiosciencereview.com is offering free reviews of equipment, his reviews are more scientific and based on measurements taken by quality instruments...... and they are even willing to pay for return shipping.
So all you loose is the cost of shipping and the loss of a item for a couple weeks. If I was producing quality componets like nuprime is, well I would be all over this since there seems to be nothing to loose.
Have you read these reviews? If, not go read a few. A "free" review can result in significant cost.
Jason - if you are confident in your engineeers (which you are) and have good customer feedback (which you do) - Don't do it.
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To him everything but the x26 has this hump. I think alot of his findings are measurable but not audible.
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Have you read these reviews? If, not go read a few. A "free" review can result in significant cost.
Jason - if you are confident in your engineeers (which you are) and have good customer feedback (which you do) - Don't do it.
I take personal pride in my projects and I consider myself a quality home renovator and I go out of my way to meet the inspectors (during inspections) who have to look at my government projects (required to release payment). This has actually led to me doing work for the inspectors or his friends and family.
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Retainage, now THERE is a topic!
Keep in mind the guy came from industries necessitating state of the art, superior engineering and workmanship.
Very few rise to those standards.
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This is getting so far off topic
But my local government contracts are 1. Be the lowest bidder 2. Do all the work 3. Wait for inspection 4. Wait for payment less 15% holdback 5. after 45 days get holdback.
I like these terms as it weeds out the fly by night guys/gals.
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Here, depending on the jurisdiction, it is lowest and best, as determined by corrupt thieves....
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I kind of have the nuprime business model.
Being a second generation company I was fortunate enough to have expensive (paid for) manufacturing machines handed over to me and I work with raw materials. This lowers my material costs considerably. Combine this with quality workmanship it puts me in a very nice position when I need to compete at a price point.
It really means a lot that I can personally ask Jason questions via email and he gives me a quick honest answers. Combine this with products I like to listen too and are competitively priced.... this is the reason why I will always consider nuprime my first choice for my equipment.
Im getting this topic back to nuprime :)
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.....
It really means a lot that I can personally ask Jason questions via email and he gives me a quick honest answers. Combine this with products I like to listen too and are competitively priced.... this is the reason why I will always consider nuprime my first choice for my equipment.
Im getting this topic back to nuprime :)
....
Thanks. But sometimes I am too stright forward and forgot to put on my Sales hat, and I offended people. I have to be more on guard :)
Since I co-founded NuForce in 2005, I eschew a lot of the tranditional high-end practices (such as making each new generation more expensive). It is very difficult to pursue the value for money strategy when the high-end market keeps shrinking. We see younger people coming into this hobbies in some part of Europe and Asia. A little sign of life in North America. That's encouranging.
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Tracking says my dac will be here tomorrow :D
How long of a break in time does the evo dac need (if any)
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None. Enjoy.
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Its all setup and ready to go
This thing is heavier than I expected Im wonding if there are some rocks inside :)
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Well, post your impressions when you can.
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Well its going to take some time for me to develop opinions. And honestly my dac sound has changed considerably over the first 10hours (yes I didn't go to work today) I contracted hifiittis this morning.
But I can say is it will decode full mqa from tidal on a pc.
If I could nit pic...…. If I was selling a dac at this price point I would take the time to research all the dac options and explain exactly what everything does in a in depth manual.
Ill also add if I choose to turn the dac on last and off first I hear nothing at all come from my speakers.
I attached a pic of the dac playing from tidal
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=193216)
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The manual, what there is of it, is sparse. I posted that critique and got flapping and hissing for my trouble.
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Go back to December 18 and see if my review tracks your opinions. If you continue reading I did bring up the contents of the manual, and I see mine did “pop” around 10 hours in.
The manual and your comment reminds me of the old saw, “People in Hell want ice water.”
Well, of course they do!
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I noticed the Op-amps are interchangeable.
Does anyone know what Op-amps come with the evo dac.
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I asked this on the very first pages and got no answer other than: if you don't know, don't mess with them.
I am building my own amps and pres, I do know, I would like an answer.
If they can be swapped for others for timbre change (digital tube rolling), this should be documented. But, as noted, the manual basically explains how to turn the unit on... little more.
For a "reference" DAC, that certainly leaves a lot to be desired.
I have insisted that NuPrime pay attention to these details, but the answer is always: we spend the money on the equipment, not the commercial aspect.
It appears that Jason has an answer and "reason" for every critique or improvement comment one may share, so I have stoped making comments, and stopped buying this equipment. Sad as that. My eyes are pointing to houses that are more involved in the after-purchase interaction with their existing users.
Rafa.
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would I void warranty if I opened up the dac and looked at them then googled what I read :)
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You will both now get spanked. Sadly, i’m Also no longer a buyer. :popcorn:
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You two are making me sad and I never met either of you personally.
But I can say I appreciated reading all your posts and to see this negativity...…….
I truly enjoyed your review Rafta, right from you getting better totems because of a deal your first cork pads for them, really your whole journey into hifi. I read every word. Same goes for you Samoyed
hmmmmm of topic.
Recently I bought some ifi products the first one was defective and the second was iffi in performanc. Ifi did nothing, I got to jump through hoops and it led to nowhere.
Another thing
I started researching other manufactures of class d amps and realized most of them take ice or hypex parts find a few other things, source a case and voila here is your amps that I bet Rafta could build on his own. On top of that they charge a small forturne for parts they did not develop they charge it because there oem and its hard for diy amp builders to buy.
And when I started asking some serious questions on there amps and Its funny how cagy and defensive one owner got, but guess what manufacturer had all the info I needed.
Im not saying there not wonderful amps I don't know I have not heard them.
Or take ps audio he seems like a great guy on all his youtube videos but all he is doing is trying to sell ps audio and unfortunately a lot of what he says can not be proven.
So nuprimes owner actively participates in this forum and I bet he answers a ton of emails from customers from around the world. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
If and when I have issues I go the person who sold me the equipment and so far Aamir from Summit Hifi has looked after me, The fact that I can even get advice from Jason is icing on the cake.
……………………………………..
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Sorry guys you both bummed me out.
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I bet I’m more bummed out than you-before buying their gear, which I still think excellent. I noticed how snippy and high handed the guy was with some but my dealer was such a NICE guy I let it pass. Fast forward to my belief that a substantive manual was needed....fast forward to my belief that my Evo had “issues”....nothing but high handed treatment similar to what I blew off.
But, competition is a wonderful thing.
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Why do you keep posting? You said several times you were leaving or were done or words to that effect.
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It’s a forum. I never stated nor implied I was leaving the forum. The equipment, as I’ve said many times, is very good.
Do you think Oliver Wendell Holmes was a smart guy?
He said debate is an important thing as it results in something useful.
Are you against debate? 🤯
Do you want me to say this guy Jason is even tempered and solicitous of consumers?😿
That was not my experience and maybe not Raf’s.
Do you think $3250 buys a substantive manual instead of something like you don’t need to know that or change it if you don’t know what it is?
As per Holmes, I think your right to be wrong serves a valid purpose on a FORUM where people learn from open, unchilled speech.
If you want to take public embarrassment from an ill tempered whatever, that’s fine with me but I won’t stand for it.
I’ll say it again. There are no perfect customers, only customers. You either want them, or you don’t.
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Well, I wonder what "You go your way, and I’ll go mine" (said to Jason) and "Adios" means then.
Anyway, I don't time or interest in engaging in your ludicrous arguments, so... adios.
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... Recently I bought some ifi products the first one was defective and the second was iffi in performanc. Ifi did nothing, I got to jump through hoops and it led to nowhere. ...
This is interesting. They are incredibly well regarded and reviewed. I have never heard one for myself, but, as the Audioquest Dragonfly, they are usually in the 'components to beat and measure all others with' category. I myself have never had this urge to get those.
... source a case and voila here is your amps that I bet Rafta could build on his own. On top of that they charge a small forturne for parts they did not develop they charge it because there oem and its hard for diy amp builders to buy.
And when I started asking some serious questions on there amps and Its funny how cagy and defensive one owner got, but guess what manufacturer had all the info I needed.
I agree!!! That's why I have turned into the DIY world, where geniuses like Nelson Pass are actually giving away their designs to the world. You buy whatever part you feel is right, as expensive or as cheap as you are willing to go. These are mostly class A beasts, some ABs and some even tubes. But yes, exactly, you don't get charged at all!
... Or take ps audio he seems like a great guy on all his youtube videos but all he is doing is trying to sell ps audio and unfortunately a lot of what he says can not be proven. ...
I find him quite a down-to-earth man. Sometimes he says: "I didn't believe that changing a fuse would help, but they showed it to me and I couldn't believe my ears". At least he is honest into what he thought and his confusion when things turn out differently.
Curiously enough, I have had your same feeling here, I'm sad to say. I have always read Jason Lim's approach to things with great empathy and in the same "wavelength' as me: "guys, don't go buying $300 cables or $1000 fuses, they make little difference to the sound, invest in better amps or dacs or speakers!!".... Bravo!!! That's what I wanted to hear from a great manufacturer of great products... but wait: "no, no, no... wait, power does make a difference, just not THOSE cables or fuses, buy my own power regulator that I have now built". Common... what happened? Were was all this down-to-earth approach. And when I ask technical stuff (precisely because the price of the regulator is not far from PS Audio regenerators which are a whole other ball game!) I got the same iffy results you claim from other manufacturers. I really hated that.
And then came the EVO line, and even more iffy responses, specially regarding the claimed-to-be swappable OP-AMPS. It would have taken 3 seconds to answer the type of op-amp, voltage getting to the chip and requirements. Yet, I got a very elusive answer. Perhaps they don't want you to know that all the amp is being done by a $2 chip? No idea, if they had answered, I wouldn't have those suspicions. Why didn't they? Only they know.
Sorry guys you both bummed me out.
I apologize for that. I must say that I started very involved here: made lots of suggestions specially about the web page, promoting stuff, giving more technical info for those that want it (for instance, I finally got Jason to post that the ST-10s are phase inverting officially). I wrote my stories. I love the nuprime products and they are the core of my system! But I have changed my view in how they promote their stuff from "hey, I love their take and perspective" to "mmm... they are now goin backwards and they behave like other companies I don't agree with".
I am happy to be proven wrong! I would love nothing more than to get back into the nuPrime wagon and be happy with every product out there and convinced it was the best option for my hard saved money. The current line-up does not reflect this feeling from me.
I still think there is usefulness in sharing those feelings, but, part of the issues, is that any negative opinion or direct comparison to a similar product from other brand gets banned here quicker than Notre Dame's ceiling burning away. I don't think that's healthy. I think it would be great that people were faced with the pros and cons and decided by themselves which to keep. If you are only presented with pros, you start wondering what cons they are hiding. If no one is allowed to compare (positively or negatively) to similar equipment, how do you make up your mind?
Perhaps it was THAT attitude that first started to push me away from NuPrime. Jason, please, please! Let people say bad things, let people compare to other products. If you have the best out there, it will come through (obviously you cannot always please everyone!). But if you prevent people from voicing dislike of better options, you are not favoring a healthy environment. Win because your products are the best, not because you keep others in the dark about other options.
That is my take to my work as well, and I have sent people to my competing software because they were better fit for them. I would expect everyone to be like that and we would have a much healthier group and less people unhappy with their choices.
That is my take on this. Nothing more,
Best regards,
Rafa.
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And then came the EVO line, and even more iffy responses, specially regarding the claimed-to-be swappable OP-AMPS. It would have taken 3 seconds to answer the type of op-amp, voltage getting to the chip and requirements. Yet, I got a very elusive answer. Perhaps they don't want you to know that all the amp is being done by a $2 chip? No idea, if they had answered, I wouldn't have those suspicions. Why didn't they? Only they know.
Rafa, please, we are a tiny bitsy lttle company where we do too many things. I apologise to anyone on this forum if I sounded too "whatever" that makes you feel that I have ignored you or don't answer your question, that was never my intend. Sometimes I am too stressed out (sales in high end audio is terrible to be honest), wondering where we are going to make ends meet, stressed about new products not coming out sooner, on and on. I am only human.
With regards to your repeated question about Evo DAC op-amp, is entirely my fault. I have been too busy and stretched with too much work and forgot to chase after our chief engineer to get some documentation. Another reason for slow to come forward with such info is that we obvioisly think that the opamp that we put it offers the best sound. Therefore we really don't know what to recommend.
I will try to get some info - promise, this is on my to-do list.
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would I void warranty if I opened up the dac and looked at them then googled what I read :)
No, you won't. As I have promised Rafi, it is my bad for not answering his question. If you have something in mind, create a topic "EVO DAC Opamp customisation" here: https://nuoem.com/forum/nuprime-brand/
I started a manufacturer forum for more technical discussions. But you post your question here too.
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I have written to Jason apologizing for some of the things I wrote. I have a profound passion for NuPrime products because I love them so much, and I would love to see them be the benchmark against which everyone else measures product value and capabilities. I not always agree on the path taken to get them there.
In that euphoria, I think I missed the fact that there are huge companies with a very large money muscle,while there are others that are more a home workshop and that it is unfair to expect both to have the same outreach and communications power.
So, I apologize for my oversight and the harshness in whichI spoke. I myself know what it is to be the little guy facing competition from huge corporations. Please accept my apologies.
Best regards,
Rafa.
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We are very lucky to have passionate customers like Rafa :thumb:
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This topic may of came up but I could not find it.
Roon gives me the option to control the evo dac with asio or wasapi.
Is there any real difference anymore between the two and if there is, does nuprime recommend one over the other?
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Try one then the other. If ROON is capable of full control over the protocol, it will give you a 'pink' star, saying everything is "prstine". With ASIO, it's a 100% sure you have exclusive control over the device. With Wasapi, there is a chance you are going through some OS "enhancements". That will show as a blue star on the "now playing" area.
Stil, it is possible that Roon is managing exclusive control over wasapi. If that is the case, I'd chose whichever is more stable (asio would be more prone to clicks and stuff, and will require a dedicated driver for windows)
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Both ASIO and WASAPI showed the same pinkish purple star and listening to both I preferred the WASAPI. Both were very close but WASAPI was slightly more pleasant in the higher frequencies.
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I am thinking to get this DAC and I am wondering if anyone connected it to a tube power amp?
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Anyone heard if the firmware can be updated, and how it is done?
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There is no firmware to update in Evo DAC. Well there are micro controller codes that control the front panel and remote keys, not nothing specific to performance related update.
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OP is AD797. A long waited answer. :icon_lol:
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Hi together,
in addition to evoOne print review via alexreusch (https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=158342.msg1779067#msg1779067).
Here is the evoDac review: Evolution-DAC 2019-09 (https://www.audium.com/downloads/NuPrime_Evolution-DAC___AUDIO_2019-09_LowRes.pdf).
Same author. Same well respected german magazine.
Same result: 135 point - exceptional in all regards.
Final conclusion:
"Soundwise we are in heaven - in the highest highs of a true reference class".
As german native speaker - the review couldn't be better.
Overview (mostly german): Nuprime reviews (https://audium.com/downloads.php?marke_id=16&typ_id=0)