AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => The HiRez Music Circle => Topic started by: mresseguie on 16 Oct 2014, 08:17 pm
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Now that the US stock markets appear to have found a bottom, my mind has once again wandered into the 'How can I improve my sound even more?" space. With that in mind, I'd like to pose a question to anyone interested in answering. I understand responses may be very subjective, but that is fine by me.
If I wanted to move to that next level of nirvana, and I had a budget of $2500, would I get more bang for my buck by buying a new DAC or a new preamp? [I'd like to limit this exercise to DACs and preamps if possible.]
I'm open to suggestions of any brand or SS/tube/hybrid/etc. technology. I'm not necessarily dissatisfied with my system, but....well....you know....it's that bug thing. I can't stop wondering what will take me higher.
My current setup is:
AVA 400R Fet Valve Hybrid amp
AVA T-8 Vacuum Tube Preamp
Cambridge Audio DacMagic Plus DAC
Oppo-103
Mac Mini (purchased new this year)
ProAc Response D2 speakers
I look forward to your input.
Thanks,
Michael
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DAC that will do DSD natively. DSD files tend to be more organic than PCM from my experience.
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If you are looking to improve the resolution and transparency of your system, look at a DAC, especially one that can drive your amp directly. If you are looking to change the character of your system, try out different preamp and/or power amp combinations.
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I don't have one yet, but I've been sufficiently persuaded to give a Chord Hugo a go in the near future for stereo duties because it supports DSD and apparently, supports it bloody damn good!
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My thoughts about the DAC Magic Plus...
This is my setup current system, below this my thoughts before and after replacing the DAC Magic Plus
Apple Mac Mini OSX 10.9.4
2.3 GHZ Quad Core Intel Core i7
16GB DDR3 1600MHZ Memory
iTunes 11.2.2
Channel D Pure Music 2.0.2
WD Mybook Hard Drive 3TB
Wyered4Sound W4S DAC-2 DSDse
Transcendent Sound Preamp and Transcendent Sound SOB Stereo Amp both kits I built.
Klipsch RF-7II -B Stock
When I first put together my system, I had been using a Cambridge Audio DacMagic Plus. With this in my system the sound was good, but something was missing, the music seemed a bit smeared and irritating depending on what was playing.
I took some time and started reading on different DAC's. I ended up with the Wyred4Sound and all I can say is WOW!!! what a difference.
The recordings that sounded smeared and irritating opened up and smoothed out. The sound stage has widened and awesome depth to the music has been revealed with this DAC.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=107072)
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I just took the preamp out of the loop on my old (20+years) solid state class D NAD 7400 by running the DAC to the Amp side of my integrated. The Sound was much better richer fuller bass was smother and fuller. All the way around I was better off. I am feeding the DAC with a squeezebox or CD or for that matter I can run the TV in. It would be nice of the DAC output was a little lower. Outside of it costing less you can spend the money on the rest of the components. And brother I need to do that. There are passive preamp out there. Lou at Daedalus has mentioned putting one together and his thoughts are using the Modwright DAC and Amp.
I did switch things back to help with the wife's using the unit. I am also of the mind to remove items that color the recorded sound. I am of the belief that I want to hear it the way it was recorded.
Alan ( Just down the river)
And Home of the "Champagne taste with a Water Budget"
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I just took the preamp out of the loop on my old (20+years) solid state class D NAD 7400 by running the DAC to the Amp side of my integrated.
NAD 7400 Class D? I thought it was a standard class AB (NAD 2400 power amp section) with their Power Drive additional high-voltage rail for dynamic peak power demands.
Steve
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I have an AVA 440 amp and the t-8 preamp. I was running a DacMagic and replaced it with the AVA hybrid DAC. A HUGE difference. I'd like to upgrade my t-8 to the new CF hybrid (because of all the great press), but if I had to do it all over, I'd still go for that DAC first. WOW.
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That brings up a point above my pay grade. The Folks at the pawn shop didn't know anything about it (thank god that was Pre Google).
I do know it is powerful. I looked through my limited paperwork and I can't find anything. And now I will have a new hunt for info.
I did go to the NAD Web site and time will see if they come up with answer.
Either way bypassing the Pre amp side helped.
Champagne Taste on a water budget
I would like a Modwight SE150 along with the New Elyse DAC Dropping the ree amp makes the rest of the dollars go father.
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With the gear you have now, a new DAC will totally transform your system.
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Buy a Chord Hugo. It has a pre-amp built in and is battery powered. It will let you play with these features. That and it is an amazing DAC.
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+1 on the DAC
Which should not require all of your budget to get better to your ear results.
And then spend the rest of the money on new music or some nice beverage of your choice to enjoy while listening. I also have an AVA T8+ preamp but a little less power with an Insight 240+ solid state amp. The desire to stray from my T8+ never happens because I absolutely love the sound from not only the digital end but also the phono stage.
At your price point I can't imagine you will beat the sound of the T8 by a considerable margin but there is SO much you can do with that budget in a dac. I am currently using an NAD M51 and I am very happy with the sound. Part of the draw for this component was its digital preamp ability along with all of the inputs but the imaging and detail from this dac blows away any of the sub $500 dacs I tried before.
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http://www.kenrockwell.com/audio/nad/7400.htm
Well how about that....................... I guess that will help with the wife when I sale it or maybe I wont after all
Circuit Design
As I understand it, it uses a class AB power amplifier, but adds a second switchable "commutating" power supply rail to let it deliver more power for short bursts. This is why it's only rated at 100 W, but puts out about 400W on bursts. This means it really is a 400W amplifier for real music, which no one believed at the time. This Power Envelope technology really works.
There is a pair of 80 V, 10,000 µF capacitors for the main power supply, and a pair of 100 V, 10,000 µF for the
high-voltage peak supply.
1988
NAD introduces the 7100 and this 7400 receiver, which are lesser models in the same series to fill in below the 7600.
This 7400 has selectable turnovers for the tone controls and is rated at 100 WPC with 6.2 dB of IHF headroom for $1,098 list price. And two years later it was $999. Still a buch :scratch: of money,
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I think it's hard to top the bang-for-the buck of the Sony HAP-Z1ES music server, you don't need a computer or a USB cable which is another plus.
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I think it's hard to top the bang-for-the buck of the Sony HAP-Z1ES music server, you don't need a computer or a USB cable which is another plus.
Putting sonics aside the issue is that the HD space is small.
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Putting sonics aside the issue is that the HD space is small.
The latest firmware update allows to you plug any outboard HD and play it through the Sony by USB, even have your friends bring their's over.
The Sony Hap-Z1ES would be the best deal. Here is a new one on Ebay for $1775 or best offer.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/281468330262
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The latest firmware update allows to you plug any outboard HD and play it through the Sony by USB, even have your friends bring their's over.
The Sony Hap-Z1ES would be the best deal. Here is a new one on Ebay for $1775 or best offer.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/281468330262 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/281468330262)
Noisy USB drives in my listening room is done. NAS is the only way to go IMO.
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Sticking specifically to DACs and/or preamps, I'd say your DAC is outclassed by the rest of your system. Not only that, there's synergy between your amp and preamp that you might not want to mess with.
At $2500 you're pretty close to used Auralic Vega DAC territory.
I like the Sony music server suggestion too. Hard to go wrong if you can accommodate going physical media-less for digital playback.
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And the internet radio on the Sony is another big plus. :thumb:
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I would go for a Wyred 4 Sound DSDse DAC. I heard this in my friends system with an AVA FET preamp and 400R amp with Magnepan 1.7 speakers. It sounds awesome. He brought it over my house and we hooked it up my BAT preamp and Pass amp and it blew my AVA Ultra Plus DAC out of the water. The dynamics, musicality and detail were spectacular. Bass was just explosive and well controlled.
https://wyred4sound.com/products
Here is a great review on it-
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/wyred9/1.html
You can find these used for about $1600 on occasion.
Conversely there are more dynamic preamps than the T-8. I bought an AVA Ultra Preamp over the T-8 as I found the T-8 not as detailed or musical and it was lacking the dynamics and Bass of the Ultra. By the way, it you are interested, I have the Ultra Plus preamp with all the upgrades for sale at $875 firm. It cost about $2300 with all the upgrades.
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Guys,
This is fantastic feedback! I've got company coming over in mere minutes, so I can only say thank you for now, but I will follow up as time permits.
Michael
P.S. Alan.....I'm pretty sure you're upriver from me, no? The mighty Willamette flows northward and you are south of me. :icon_twisted:
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You have me there. Just w whole lot of fish getting it dirty after I am done with it.
Drop by for A listen.
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The Grace Design M 920 looks interesting to me. This company has been held in high esteem by the recording industry all over the world. Their M 920 is a combination preamp, DAC, and headphone amp all in one and is fully balanced and can be had with a very nice remote. It has both balanced and unbalanced analog inputs and a full complement of digital inputs as well. No phono. Street price w/o remote is under $2K.
Use it as a DAC and compare it to your preamp. You might well come out of this having spent very little on a huge upgrade.
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And the internet radio on the Sony is another big plus. :thumb:
Yeah, I have that with my AURALiC ARIES along with built in AirPlay and Qubuz and WiMP. Oh, NAS is in another room so the listening room is silent from hard drive noise and more electrical crap. Full wireless streaming of DSD128 files.
If the Sony works for you and you like it, then be it.
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Yeah, I have that with my AURALiC ARIES along with built in AirPlay and Qubuz and WiMP. Oh, NAS is in another room so the listening room is silent from hard drive noise and more electrical crap. Full wireless streaming of DSD128 files.
If the Sony works for you and you like it, then be it.
So what are you recommending in the $2500 category? I believe this is what this thread is all about. Does your set-up retail for $2500?
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So what are you recommending in the $2500 category? I believe this is what this thread is all about. Does your set-up retail for $2500?
As mentioned earlier by another member a used Vega is ~$2500.
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As mentioned earlier by another member a used Vega is ~$2500.
So how much is the Aries and NAS?
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I've had the Vega in my system, if you have a single ended system the Sony is the Vega's equal imo, but the Vega was designed as a balanced unit first and foremost, it's balanced outs are probably better than the Sony's. paul79 designed a balanced to single ended transformer for his Vega that he said blows away the Sony and I believe him, but now you're talking more than double the price of the Sony... Then when you account for a computer or Aries server you're really talking apples to oranges price wise. If someone wanted to trade my Sony for a Vega/Aries combo I'd jump on it in a heartbeat. :green: But I can't spend the cash on the Auralic gear right now, a few grand here or there is a big deal for me right now.
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So how much is the Aries and NAS?
Two models of the ARIES. $999 and $1599 (Dual Femto Clock & LPS) A NAS ranges from $250 on up or use a HD locally with the ARIES next month if one wants to build their system over time.
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I had a dac magic in my system and then bought a Vega. Using just the digital inputs of the Vega the sound difference was barely noticeable. The big difference was when I used the usb out of my audiophile vortexbox with SOTM card into the Vega usb input. That was the ticket. I bought the battery power for the SOTM card but really cant tell any difference. I have on order a linear power supply to see if that helps. Its an endless sickness. Rest of system is Pass labs XA100.5 amps, XP30 pre and Janszen ZA2.1 speakers.
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The Grace Design M 920 looks interesting to me.
That's a great sounding DAC and the feature set allows it to be used as a preamp as well.
I use a Benchmark DAC2 HCG for my DAC and preamp. Similar features and performance to the Grace m920.
Russ
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Two models of the ARIES. $999 and $1599 (Dual Femto Clock & LPS) A NAS ranges from $250 on up or use a HD locally with the ARIES next month if one wants to build their system over time.
So for everything new, that is about $5-5.5k. That makes the $1775 new Sony a best buy. I am with Dave, I would trade my Sony for that set-up.
But after owning all kinds of DACs here, I know the Sony is probably not the best, but i doubt if anything will blow it away.
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The OP should just go ahead and purchase a new AVA Dac and be done. It's stellar from what Frank has said.
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Another scenario would be to buy a Vega and go direct to the 400R and sell the AVA T8. Then with that money purchase an ARIES. Use the USB Drive option that will be coming next month. Done.
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Hi, gang.
There have been so many responses that my head is spinning. I intend to address all suggestions, but I want to start with the Sony HAP-Z1ES music server in this post.
I've been interested in this unit since it was released (and I did check it out at Axpona this year). Dave and OzarkTom (or anyone with experience): How would this be an improvement over my buying a new DAC? Is there such an improvement in how music is delivered over my Mac Mini?
The 1 TB HD in the unit is plenty big for my current needs. I know about the new USB feature. I had assumed that a unit such as this (or a Sonore unit?) would improve my sound, but that a DAC would have a considerably greater impact.
I'm off to watch "KANO" with my wife. It's only a three hour-long movie. Coffee!
Michael
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Or go with the new Lampizator Amber. the Lampi sound is amazing. http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=129350.msg1368957#new
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I think it's hard to top the bang-for-the buck of the Sony HAP-Z1ES music server, you don't need a computer or a USB cable which is another plus.
The HAP-Z1ES is an excellent choice for Stereo DSD and PCM playback. As you say, it eliminates the need for a computer and USB cable. You can select tracks by the selector wheel on the front of the HAP or a Android or Apple tablet. Very cool - I use one in my home office. Thumbs up!
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That Lampi looks interesting. I like the fact it uses tubes but I need to see reviews on it comparing it to similar priced DAC's.
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I have had a lot of the $4-5K dacs here in my system, including tube dacs. The Sony stands up to any of them, better than some. For me, the Sony is much easier to use, sounds wonderful, and can be constantly upgraded with firmware updates. The latest firmware upgrade has added a little more sparkle to my system, or the AC power in my town has improved.
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IMO AVA is rather pedestrian stuff (sound quality wise), but synergy was mentioned and build quality/support is very good. There are several great DAC options within your budget that can also replace the pre-amp while opening the door to XLR and various hi-res formats:
Benchmark DAC2 HGC: $2000; PCM 24/192, DSD64; 2 coax, 2 optical, 2 RCA, USB inputs; 2 RCA, 2 headphone (1/4"), XLR outputs; professional/compact; remote; a long time std for sound quality
BMC Pure DAC: $1800; PCM 32/384, DSD64/128; coax, optical, USB, AES/EBU inputs; 2 headphone (1/4" & XLR), RCA, XLR outputs; remote; great organic sound even at low volume (no analog input)
Mytek 192: $1700; PCM 32/192, DSD64/128; coax, optical, 2 USB, firewire, RCA inputs; 1/4" headphone, RCA, XLR outputs; uses Apple app for remote; compact; great sound, especially with firewire
Oppo HA-1: $1200; PCM 32/384, DSD64/128/256; coax, optical, USB, AES/EBU, RCA, XLR inputs; 2 headphone (1/4" & XLR), RCA, XLR outputs; remote; compact; spectacular sound/soundstage
While none of these are a "current darling" of media or A/C members they are all very good, provide substantial future proofing, and would save you some coin in this fast moving audio segment. I'd concentrate on the BMC if organic sound is important, but compactness isn't an issue and the Oppo for cost, flexibility, and compactness (possible desktop use).
Forget the Sony, you just bought the mini (which makes for a very fine server and gives you many more options than a all-in-one whatever we call them these days).
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Just listed here on AC.
BMC PureDac
List: $1790
Sell: $1090
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Hi, Tom.
Thanks for the heads up on the BMC DAC. I scanned a review on it and it looks really sweet. Without my having had an opportunity to audition one ahead of time, buying one 2nd hand (even though heavily discounted) is too great a risk for me at this point. I have heard just two DACs in my system--the DacMagic Plus and the internal 100 level DAC in my SimAudio i3.3, which is inferior to the DacMagic Plus. I expect some major revelations once I get a great DAC in for an audition.
Michael
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Great feedback! I see I've got some homework. Here's a list of the DACs as suggested by respondents:
Chord Hugo
Wyred 4 Sound DAC 2 DSD SEAVA Hybrid DAC (edited.....I had written it on my paper. Sigh.)
Auralic Vega/Aries
Grace Design M920
Benchmark DAC2 HGC
Lampizator Amber
Mytek 192
Oppo HA-1
I've begun investigating these, but I've come to no conclusions as it is too soon. When I posted my question, I hadn't put much thought into the possibility of a DAC with volume control since my T-8 preamp is so new to my system. I don't want to hold back my system by insisting on keeping the T-8 and foregoing a potentially better alternative though. Each time I buy a new component, I realize significant increases in my listening experience. I'm sure most of us have made this journey.
My declaring a $2500 budget was based on the approximate cost of the AVA Fet Valve CF Preamp with Remote Control and phono circuits included. My heart is not necessarily set on that preamp nor is the budget set in stone; it was more about synergy and a convenient target. If the stock markets are kind to me in the coming months, I may feel more inclined to increase my budget. Additionally, I'm all for buying a slightly used unit off an AC member once I know which unit I actually crave. [Hey, sfox, time to sell your new Lampi 7!!]
I'm aware I have a tendency to start out thinking I want 'X' component because it is at an arbitrary price point and/or clever marketing. I may buy that unit only to discover a few months later that I really should have bought 'Y' or 'Z'. They are more expensive, but deliver significantly better sound. I'd very much like to avoid making that mistake with this next purchase. It may require my forcing patience onto myself till I truly grasp what it is I want or need.
Hmm. There was something else I wanted to say, but it slipped away.
Mr. Esseguie :lol:
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Someone also mentioned the Wyred 4 Sound DAC 2 DSD SE. I upgraded my DAC 2 to SE status a couple of months ago. It is a fantastic sounding DAC, very flexible, and well built. W4S is a great company with excellent product support too. I'm not sure how upgradable the other DACs are on your list, but it is something to consider. Something else you might consider as a much less expensive entry to a MUCH better DAC than what you currently have is to get a standard DAC 2 used (which go for about $900 tops). Play with it in stock form for awhile, then when the upgrade bug bites, send it in for the upgrades.
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I couldn't help but notice an absence of a Bryston model. Prior to my discovering AC, I'd heard people raving about Bryston's DAC. Is it not so hot then compared to the above units?
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Sorry, but this thread (including my previous post) is feeding the DAC of the month mentality that has been an audio sickness for years. This is the fastest moving segment of home audio reproduction and very costly to keep up with the latest/greatest. So here are a couple of lower cost, but still high quality DACs that you can more than "get by" on:
CEntrance DAC mini CX ($800; PCM only - 24/192; optical, coax, USB, and RCA (analog) inputs; RCA, 1/4" headphone outputs; same size as your mini; 2014 Stereophile class A rated)
Halide Design DAC HD ($450; PCM only - 24/96; captive USB input/RCA output; tiny; 2014 Stereophile class A rated; smooth sound, good soundstage)
iFi Micro iDSD ($500; PCM768, 2xDXD, DSD256; optical, coax, USB, 3.5 mm (analog) inputs; RCA, 1/4" headphone outputs; small; flexible; battery power; great soundstage, almost tube like sound)
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Has anyone heard of this, and/or have experience using it? It's just $389.00!
Grant Fidelity TubeDAC-11 D/A Converter
Features:
(5) sets of selectable inputs to allow you plenty of choices - including 2 sets RCA, 1 coaxial, 1 optical and 1 USB
(2) sets of RCA Outputs tailored to your taste - one with transistor and one with a single 6N11 vacuum tube (can be replaced with 6922, E88CC, 6DJ8, 6H23n and CCa tubes) with passive volume control
DAC direct output - by pass tube buffer stage and volume control for you to match the DAC with other high end amplification (amp must have its own volume control as DAC direct output pass signal at full volume)
Built-in transistor headphone amp to allow you enjoy music in privacy (standard 6.5mm jack). Alternatively, you can use a RCA to 6.5mm jack adapter to connect headphones directly to the rear tube output. Note: front solid state headphone out can accept headphone with impedance as low as 16ohm; rear tube out only work properly with headphones with impedance over 300 ohm.
Key parts are of audiophile quality throughout
High efficiency low noise custom toroidal transformer which is usually only used on high end audio
Separate power supply to tube circuitry to reduce interference
Gold coated signal connectors throughout
No over-samping - input singal pass through at original sampling rate
TE7022 USB 2.0 decoding chip is used to process data at 24/96kHz
High quality Cirrus Logic CS4398 for main D/A converter - provide rich mid-range and low clock jitter
ADA4075-2 as opamp for sweet midrange
Dual voltage (115/230V +/-10% wide range) for you to take it with you anywhere in the world
Brushed aluminum faceplate and complete casing
Complete set of cables included: (1) IEC power cord, (1) RCA, (1) Coaxial, (1) Optical and (1) USB
Specifications:
Input: Optical, Coaxial, USB，Analong x 2
Input digital signal format: 32-192 KHz, 16/24 Bit auto detection. (USB 2.0 supports up to 24Bit 96KHz)
Output: DAC output, pre line output , tube buffer output.
SNR: >120dB.
Dynamic Range: 115dB.
THD+N: <0.0008% at 20-20KHz (tube out :0.02%)
Frequency response: 20-20KHz -0.2dB.
Output Level: DAC output: 2V, pre line output/ tube buffer output:max 6V
Output Impedance: Line out and Tube out - <20 ohm, DAC out < 600 ohm
Headphone output power: 110mW at 300 Ohm, and 600mW at 32 Ohm
Channel separation: DAC and Headphone output - 105dB; Tube output - 90 dB
Power consumption: <20W.
Net Dimensions: 10" W x 7" D x 2" H
Net Weight: 1.6Kg (3.5 lb)
Package Size: 12" W x 12" D x 4" H
Color: black faceplate or silver faceplate
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Has anyone heard of this, and/or have experience using it? It's just $389.00!
I have not heard that DAC specifically. Based on hearing similar DACs, my guess is that the tube will give it a different texture, but your DAC Magic probably sounds as good if not better.
Russ
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If it were me, I would attempt a trial of the Benchmark and the Auralic. I have the Benchmark USB DAC1 and it is very, very good. It upstaged my preamp, when using it as a preamp and DAC.
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Now that the US stock markets appear to have found a bottom, my mind has once again wandered into the 'How can I improve my sound even more?" space. With that in mind, I'd like to pose a question to anyone interested in answering. I understand responses may be very subjective, but that is fine by me.
If I wanted to move to that next level of nirvana, and I had a budget of $2500, would I get more bang for my buck by buying a new DAC or a new preamp? [I'd like to limit this exercise to DACs and preamps if possible.]
I'm open to suggestions of any brand or SS/tube/hybrid/etc. technology. I'm not necessarily dissatisfied with my system, but....well....you know....it's that bug thing. I can't stop wondering what will take me higher.
My current setup is:
AVA 400R Fet Valve Hybrid amp
AVA T-8 Vacuum Tube Preamp
Cambridge Audio DacMagic Plus DAC
Oppo-103
Mac Mini (purchased new this year)
ProAc Response D2 speakers
I look forward to your input.
Thanks,
Michael
Michael you have a VG synergy with the AVA product line. IMO no need to change that. The source is key. DAC would be my recco. A used Berkley, or Aurilac just may do the trick for you.
Opinions are nice however hands on is the only true way to find out. Have fun.
charles
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Russ,
Thanks. I guess I didn't have high expectations, but one never knows...There are so many products out there. I don't wish to buy something that is simply a lateral move (or close to it).
Geowak,
I need to track down a Benchmark DAC dealer (easily done, I know) and cajole him/her into allowing me to take one home for a few days. I already have a decent relationship with an Auralic dealer, so I'll see about borrowing one soon. Based on my initial research, I'm looking at the Wired4Sound, Benchmark, Auralic, and Lampizator DACs (and possibly the AVA DAC) as being most likely to make me happy, but I am still open to trying other brands.
Charles,
Old habits die hard, so I can't help but do as much online reading/asking for opinions as possible before actually dashing out to borrow this or that component--plus most dealers are 90 minutes away. Of course, by my asking for opinions, I open myself up to others' prejudices and biases. Until this thread, I hadn't thought of AVA as being pedestrian, but now that tiny seed has been planted. Sigh.
I've really come to like being able to buy directly from manufacturers. This site (AC) has saved me thousands of dollars on products that I would have eventually bought at dealers. I would have acquired these components more slowly through dealers because of the much higher prices I would have had to pay. At the same time, I still try to buy some items from dealers because I want them to stay in business. Oh, yeah. Even though I've saved big bucks, I couldn't help but notice that I spent a lot more money on audio this year than I expected to one year ago.....and I STILL want to buy a DAC and better speakers!
Is there an Oregon branch of Audioholics Anonymous? :lol:
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I would call Audio Advisor. They carry Benchmark and have a 30 day return policy.
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Russ,
Thanks. I guess I didn't have high expectations, but one never knows...There are so many products out there. I don't wish to buy something that is simply a lateral move (or close to it).
Geowak,
I need to track down a Benchmark DAC dealer (easily done, I know) and cajole him/her into allowing me to take one home for a few days. I already have a decent relationship with an Auralic dealer, so I'll see about borrowing one soon. Based on my initial research, I'm looking at the Wired4Sound, Benchmark, Auralic, and Lampizator DACs (and possibly the AVA DAC) as being most likely to make me happy, but I am still open to trying other brands.
Charles,
Old habits die hard, so I can't help but do as much online reading/asking for opinions as possible before actually dashing out to borrow this or that component--plus most dealers are 90 minutes away. Of course, by my asking for opinions, I open myself up to others' prejudices and biases. Until this thread, I hadn't thought of AVA as being pedestrian, but now that tiny seed has been planted. Sigh.
I've really come to like being able to buy directly from manufacturers. This site (AC) has saved me thousands of dollars on products that I would have eventually bought at dealers. I would have acquired these components more slowly through dealers because of the much higher prices I would have had to pay. At the same time, I still try to buy some items from dealers because I want them to stay in business. Oh, yeah. Even though I've saved big bucks, I couldn't help but notice that I spent a lot more money on audio this year than I expected to one year ago.....and I STILL want to buy a DAC and better speakers!
Is there an Oregon branch of Audioholics Anonymous? :lol:
Check out the iFi iDSD - it is very inexpensive, but is a seriously good DAC (and is pretty much future-proof). How good is it? The iFi booth has gotten best sound at RMAF from Jason and I for 2 years in a row. It's a also a seriously good headphone amp, too.
http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/micro-idsd/
Don't just take my word for it - Here is a professional review:
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0914/ifi_audio_micro_idsd_dac_headphone_amplifier.htm
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+1 on the Benchmark DAC2 if you want sonic neutrality and exceptional transparency. You can call them directly at 1 800-262-4675. They will give you 30 days to try it out. Rory Rall is a great guy to work with.
I've owned that DAC for two years and can answer any questions you have about it.
Russ
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recently purchased the OPPO BDP-105D and love it! I can send SACD DSD via USB to 105D or PCM 352.8kHz
Pre-Pro - Krell HTS 7.1
AMP - Krell HTS 5 Channel
Mains - KEF XQ5’s
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I would be very cautious about describing DACs in this price range "blowing away" each other. There are distinct differences to be sure, but the OP's current DAC is not lousy by any stretch....and I say this as an owner of a PSAudio DirectStream DAC. I'm surprised so many posters are assuming that a different preamp would not significantly improve the OP's system. Has anyone heard the OP's preamp?
Since I have not, I cannot offer an opinion about it, but I *have* listened to a number of preamps that did a great deal to improve a system's SQ.
With that in mind, I'd like to suggest the new iFi tube buffer stage. I have heard this $399 baby hold its own with at least two $4k preamps. Putting this device between whatever DAC you buy and your amp may surprise you. A 30 day audition is free and it's so small that shipping is hardly worth mentioning.
I don't sell these and I'm not associated with anyone who does. I've simply heard the iFi tube buffer in two very different systems and was seriously impressed.
Just a thought.
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2 points -
Get both: Combo units (DAC, pre-amp, headphone amp) save money, a set of interconnects, and desk/rack space at the loss of flexibility.
If you're ready to give up DSD (and how many albums were recorded natively in PCM anyway?) and save $700 - 1500: I can easily recommend Emotiva DC-1 (DAC, pre-amp, headphone amp) for $500. I just picked it up and within a day is really performing well (review forthcoming). Small and solidly built with all features available on the unit itself. Has an analog input and all the digital inputs covered but the headphone jacks are only 1/8 inch. Remote is made of metal but volume is touchy with all black on black buttons (no back lighting). "Blue collar" reviewers agree that the sonic differences between good DAC's, like the DC-1 and others in the league of the Benchmark, is indistinguishable.
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JLM,
This (about the Emotiva) is interesting news. Until now, I've mostly read that Emotiva products are mid-fi at best. I'd be interested in reading your impressions.
Back in October I had a top 'five' list of DACs I wanted to audition and was all set to begin trying them at home when I suffered a financial hiccup. Okay, it was more a backflip than a mere hiccup. I did not try a single unit. I'm once again on the hunt, but I'm budgeting under $1k for my upgrade.
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I would be very cautious about describing DACs in this price range "blowing away" each other. There are distinct differences to be sure, but the OP's current DAC is not lousy by any stretch....and I say this as an owner of a PSAudio DirectStream DAC. I'm surprised so many posters are assuming that a different preamp would not significantly improve the OP's system. Has anyone heard the OP's preamp?
Since I have not, I cannot offer an opinion about it, but I *have* listened to a number of preamps that did a great deal to improve a system's SQ.
With that in mind, I'd like to suggest the new iFi tube buffer stage. I have heard this $399 baby hold its own with at least two $4k preamps. Putting this device between whatever DAC you buy and your amp may surprise you. A 30 day audition is free and it's so small that shipping is hardly worth mentioning.
I don't sell these and I'm not associated with anyone who does. I've simply heard the iFi tube buffer in two very different systems and was seriously impressed.
Just a thought.
To further the iFi love - I have a Micro iDSD and it's phenomenal. I heard it at their booth at RMAF last year and it was one of the few "stunner" moments where the sound quality was WAY better than price would indicate.
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JLM,
This (about the Emotiva) is interesting news. Until now, I've mostly read that Emotiva products are mid-fi at best. I'd be interested in reading your impressions.
Back in October I had a top 'five' list of DACs I wanted to audition and was all set to begin trying them at home when I suffered a financial hiccup. Okay, it was more a backflip than a mere hiccup. I did not try a single unit. I'm once again on the hunt, but I'm budgeting under $1k for my upgrade.
Emotiva = high value and I agree, not known for high-end sound. But this is from their professional line. I don't have much experience with the current $1200 - 2000 DAC/pre/headphone amps and my ears hear mostly speakers/room in various systems. Really don't know how anyone compares amps/DACs without A/Bing on the same system (then you run into synergy issues). My duh moment was when I realized that I could save $$ by giving up on the DSD hype (almost all DSD is reformatted from PCM, native/pure DSD could only be a very purist exercise as it can't be manipulated like PCM).
My review will take a while as I'm using a $6, 35 foot optical cable from my iMac in the back of the room and it will be 3 weeks until the Cable Company has the loaner cables I wanted to home audition. But by then the DC-1 should be broken in. After 40+ hours it's sounding better and better. For better or worse, won't be auditioning with $1000 cables on a $500 piece.
Another well reviewed, low cost, non-DSD DAC is the tiny Halide HD. About $450 with USB and RCA captive cables. 2014 Stereophile Class A rated. Just a DAC, no controls or displays.
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IMO:
I've owned emotiva gear and found the SQ to be rather pedestrian.
Check out the soon to be released aries mini. A $400 streamer/
dac capable of 24/384 PCM files, quad rate DSD, and Tidal
lossless streaming. Initial audio press impressions are that
the vega/aries combo at $4,700 more had a softer more relaxed
sound. According to Mr. Darko the mini is,"a little more strident."
Throw in usb out to any other dac you might prefer and it gets
interesting. You have a good pre/amp combo. IMO to improve
on your current preamp SQ with a dac preamp would require
a $3,500 + dac with analog, not digital, volume control. The
auralic facebook pg. has a vega/aries, aries mini, spec sheet
comparison.
gad-
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Another vote for iFi micro iDSD - fantastic sound for a portable DAC and amazing power on the amp section, although you could bypass the amp if needed on the RCA-outs.
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Hi, Yates.
As it happens, I was in Echo HiFi in Portland on Wednesday to buy an iFi micro iDSD DAC. Unfortunately, they had already sold out. [It's their best selling DAC!] Unwilling to walk out empty handed, I bought an iFi iPurifier USB audio purifier to try out. I'm pretty sure there is an improvement, but I'm also pretty sure I'll return it, and will wait until they are resupplied with the DACs.
While I was there, I listened to a couple songs on the Ryan R-620 floor standing speakers. They sound pretty good (great sound stage, open feel, nice midrange clarity) although there seemed to be just a hint of brightness. I'd first want to listen to a bunch of my songs before passing final judgement on them, but this was my initial impression.
Michael
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Do not succumb to the absurd assertions by some that there is some kind of problem with using a digital volume control. As long as your system is well matched for gain and you do not need to use ridiculous (>40dB) levels of attenuation, a good digital volume control (like that used in the ESS chip and Vega) will be entirely transparent, unlike an analog volume control which will add the thermal noise of the resistive element (whether a pot or discrete resistors).