[Danny Richie]

[Review] Elac Debut B6 loudspeaker by Herb Reichert

-> http://www.stereophile.com/content/elac-debut-b6-loudspeaker

Measurements:

-> http://www.stereophile.com/content/elac-debut-b6-loudspeaker-measurements

Their measurements look about like mine.

Looks like their impedance curve shows a little resonance just below 200Hz. Mine showed a few resonances at around 25Hz and 55Hz. I think this might just be inconsistencies in the way the boxes are stuffed. The pair I had here had a very light amount of insulation.

[Blaser]

that review is why I and how I found GR research and bought my X-LS Encore and to my sub

[maty]

You can add much (and better) absorbent and damping material, improve the crossover but not the BIG drop in the tweeter frequency response 

Therefore, I would never buy these ELAC B5 and B6 Debut if I would listen (very) good recordings. They are boxes to listen commercial music, so badly produced from three decades.

[Danny Richie]

You can add much (and better) absorbent and damping material, improve the crossover but not the BIG drop in the tweeter frequency response 

Therefore, I would never buy these ELAC B5 and B6 Debut if I would listen (very) good recordings. They are boxes to listen commercial music, so badly produced from three decades.

Actually the big drop in the top end is an easy fix. The tweeter had a 20 ohm resistor inline with it to bring the level down to meet the woofer output. That's why the impedance is so high on the top end. I by-passed the resistor with a .47uF Sonicap to left the top end back up. Problem solved for just a few dollars.

In fact I offered a level 1 upgrade that replaced the sand caste resistor with a Mills resistor (much cleaner), it adds the by-pass cap to lift the top end, it replaces the tweeter capacitor with a Sonicap (big improvement in clarity), and it includes a sheet of No Rez to solve the cabinet resonance issues. All for $76.

Here is a picture of the upgraded crossover.



And here is the new response curve with the top end no longer rolled off.

[maty]

I thought that it was problem of the speaker because I did not conceived that Andrew Jones does not design an optimal filter!

[maty]

And the curve has too many "big" swings.

The good thing is the negative slope, which is the ideal curve. Like the expensive Plutone speakers design by Tony Gee. And without resistors!

-> http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Plutone.html

[Danny Richie]

I thought that it was problem of the speaker because I did not conceived that Andrew Jones does not design an optimal filter!

All I am going to say about that is that it was an easy fix.

[maty]

-> http://www.amazon.com/Debut-Series-Bookshelf-Speakers-Andrew/dp/B014GSEQ06

Sophisticated Crossover

An intricate 8 - element crossover optimizes performance and blending between the drivers for superior accuracy.

[trianglezerius]

You guys are making, IMO, to big a deal out of a $279 speaker. Just enjoy it for what it is a budget killer. I'm sure given its low price Andrew threw everything he could at it and voiced it how he thought best. Are they perfect no but what speaker is?

[S Clark]

And the curve has too many "big" swings.

The good thing is the negative slope, which is the ideal curve. Like the expensive Plutone speakers design by Tony Gee. And without resistors!

-> http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Plutone.html

You are aware, I hope, that the scale of the graphs you are comparing are different, making the "swings" larger in one than the other.  Also, not sure I agree with you about the "ideal curve". 

[bdp24]

You guys are making, IMO, to big a deal out of a $279 speaker. Just enjoy it for what it is a budget killer. I'm sure given its low price Andrew threw everything he could at it and voiced it how he thought best. Are they perfect no but what speaker is?

That's one way to look at it. Another is to correct the falling high end response for only a few bucks by installing the 0.47uF Sonicap. That doesn't make the speaker less of a "budget killer" (your words, but doesn't that phrase actually mean the exact opposite of what you meant to say?), but more of one! And correcting the high end response doesn't change the voicing Andrew Jones designed into the speaker, for as Danny has said, voicing is done at much lower frequencies. This "easy fix" (easy for Danny!) for a design flaw (which Danny has proven could have been avoided) should prove to the jerk who made a snide remark a couple of pages back about Jones being a "real designer" (the intentional insult to Danny being very obvious), that Danny is also at least as much a real designer as Andrew.

[maty]

You are right about the scale. The real problem is the BIG dip by a non-optimal filter design or wanting to save a few bucks/pennies/cents (adding same quality components).

Furthermore it is/was the problem of grid.

Perhaps these problems are due to the company/factory wanted to cut costs (Debut is the economical series) and not the designer.

********** ********** **********

The ideal frequency curve:

* In a studio: flat, without slope. Hearing fatigue.

* To listen music (good recordings): negative slope.

[maty]

[Review] ELAC Debut F5 Floorstanding Speaker by Steven R. Rochlin

-> http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0216/ELAC_F5_Speaker_Review.htm

While this review is about the F5 floorstanders ($558/pr), I can say the same about ELAC's B6 bookshelf speakers too ($279/pr). In fact you could build a really nice home theater setup with a few pairs of ELAC B5 small monitors ($279/pr) and their S10 powered subwoofer ($249 each) for a very reasonable price and bask in the glory of how great it sounds.... and so will your visiting neighbors and guests! ...

[maty]

I have a pair of KEF Q100 with a very cheap modded.

ELAC B6 vs KEF Q100:

BIG Graph -> https://i.imgur.com/kTigwea.jpg

Elac B6 = more impact to the bass, you can actually feel it. Very smooth sound overall. Not bright by any means, but not muted sounding like the BS22 can be. Its a very pleasing to the ear speaker.

KEF q100 = More lively/dynamic. More sparkle and splash. Bass depth is similar but the impact is no there. Imaging seems more centered an in the middle, but that's probably due to being near-field with a coaxial driver...

The problem is... he used MP3!!! We need a very good recordings to make a good comparative. As I said, for commercial music, little objection to the ELAC B6 speakers.

[maty]

ELAC - Debut F5 Tower Speakers

-> http://www.amazon.com/ELAC-Debut-Tower-Speakers-Each/dp/B014GSEPY8

Crossover -> http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/aplusautomation/vendorimages/dc263c05-300d-46b6-8f26-79b5150ffcf5.JPG._CB311884910_.jpg

If the tweeter is the same...

[roscoeiii]

I have a pair of KEF Q100 with a very cheap modded.

ELAC B6 vs KEF Q100:

BIG Graph -> https://i.imgur.com/kTigwea.jpg

The problem is... he used MP3!!! We need a very good recordings to make a good comparative. As I said, for commercial music, little objection to the ELAC B6 speakers.

Some characteristics of speakers will still be clear as day with mp3 files. Bass, dynamics, frequency response for example.

[Danny Richie]

You guys are making, IMO, to big a deal out of a $279 speaker. Just enjoy it for what it is a budget killer. I'm sure given its low price Andrew threw everything he could at it and voiced it how he thought best. Are they perfect no but what speaker is?

Keep in mind that this is a DIY group here. A lot of their fun is taking something good and making it better.

[trianglezerius]

ut sometimes you need to leave things alone and listen to what the designer wants us to hear. If you can't do that then move on IMO

PS everything doesn't to need to measure flat to be able to enjoy it.

[bdp24]

ut sometimes you need to leave things alone and listen to what the designer wants us to hear. If you can't do that then move on IMO

PS everything doesn't to need to measure flat to be able to enjoy it.

Uh, this forum is for enthusiasts, not for average consumers. If all one wants is okay/good enough sound, why even come here? You do know who participates here, don't you? You're rather out of your depth, son.

When I bought my Chevy Tahoe, I could have "left things alone and drove what the designer wanted me to". But no, I replaced the 255/75-16 tires and 16" wheels with 245/45-20 front and 305/35-20 rear tires and 20" Budnik wheels. Why? Because it's more fun! I also dropped it 4", replaced the stock grill with a billet one, and removed all the badges (I don't need no stinkin' badges ). Now I'm saving for a Whipple blower (super-charger) to bolt onto the Tahoe's 350 cu.in. small block for an extra 100 or so horsepower. I'll bet your car is factory stock, just like your speakers. Boring!

[Captainhemo]

ut sometimes you need to leave things alone and listen to what the designer wants us to hear. If you can't do that then move on IMO

PS everything doesn't to need to measure flat to be able to enjoy it.

fair enough, but as Danny mentions above,  many people here  LIKE/WANBT  to tinker  and  try to improve upon  what they've got. The mod kits that  Danny has made availbable are a simple way for people to do that, there is no preasure  here, the mods are something  folks are  choosing to try.
If  "you"  want to  listen  to the speakers as they  are designed,  that's "your" choice and of course, there is nothing wrong with that choice.

for many,  leaving   the speakers as designed when there is a simple improvement available is like asking many car enthusists to leave things  as they are because they work  fine.... fat chance of that  !!

jay