recording snob

dallaire1 · « **on:** 23 Sep 2021, 10:59 am »

I have had my M3's now since March and they are broken in well, everything is set up as good as I can get it as far as speaker placement. I have spent many hours getting them right to my ears anyway. I use Tidal to stream most of my music. I find myself "recording hunting"... anybody else find themselves doing this ? The M3's are so so revealing its hard to listen to what I used to think was a decent recording just to find out they are plagued with all sorts of recording flaws. Some recordings blow my mind, like you can just fall into the entire listening experience while others are intolerable ! It's kind of unfortunate to find a song you have liked for years and all of a sudden, what sounded good before does not translate to the M3's the same way.. I think I've become a recording snob...

I'm sure the other speaker model's have the same ability, I can only speak to the M3's

doggie · « **Reply #1 on:** 23 Sep 2021, 11:12 am »

You have discovered the terrible unspoken truth of The Audiophile Quest.

Once we have finally reached perfection in our system we become the powerless victims of recording technique and quality.

We have two choices: either embrace the pain or buy some euphonic vintage tube equipment

dallaire1 · « **Reply #2 on:** 23 Sep 2021, 11:50 am »

Oh the pain... Well said !

ric · « **Reply #3 on:** 23 Sep 2021, 01:35 pm »

You may want to switch to vinyl or try a more forgiving dac, like Border Patrol, good luck!

dallaire1 · « **Reply #4 on:** 23 Sep 2021, 01:46 pm »

Guess I'm trying to look at it as one of those "gold plated problems".. like having to put the "Lambo" in the shop.

dallaire1 · « **Reply #5 on:** 23 Sep 2021, 01:48 pm »

Just an example, I don't own one.

Randy · « **Reply #6 on:** 23 Sep 2021, 03:02 pm »

I have speakers like that, too. Just too revealing for their own good, and mine as well. Stupendous with good recordings, SACDs.

Tyson · « **Reply #7 on:** 23 Sep 2021, 03:25 pm »

If you had lower sensitivity speakers before (like Maggies) or speakers that used small 6 inch midranges, then I can tell you that your previous speakers sound 'sleepy' vs. something like the M3's. So your equipment choices for DAC/Preamp/Amp/Wiring were all built around being ultra revealing in order to balance out the old speakers' relatively muted sound. With the M3's you have to re-balance your system because the M3's are FAR more lively, dynamic and revealing than just about any speaker on the market.

Also, if you don't have room treatments, then focus on that first because treating room will be especially important with a high performance OB speaker like the M3's.

dallaire1 · « **Reply #8 on:** 23 Sep 2021, 03:58 pm »

Room treatment is the next system component I really need to get to work on ! Right after I start the OB sub build. Heat is finally breaking in Phoenix. Taking some live energy out of the room with the necessary treatment's will help some recordings I'm sure. My space is far from done acousticly.

WGH · « **Reply #9 on:** 23 Sep 2021, 04:12 pm »

Yea, what Tyson said. If music doesn't sound good with many recordings then you have some really bad synergy going on.

What are your upfront electronics and cables? I can make my system sound revealing and screechy but plugging in my really old original Straight Wire Encore interconnects.
The PS Audio Stellar M1200 I borrowed for fun was hyper detailed and fast, too much of a good thing.

Tyson · « **Reply #10 on:** 23 Sep 2021, 05:05 pm »

Oh, if the room is untreated, then definitely sort that out before changing any equipment. Untreated rooms are very lively and all that liveliness is actually a bunch of acoustic errors occluding some parts of the signal while over-emphasizing other parts. Treating the room will remove massive levels of errors and harshness. That might be all you need.

My rule of thumb is this - about 20% of my recordings sound amazing. 60% sound very good. 20% sound meh, or even downright poor. If you don't have a similar ratio after treating your room very well, then and only then start to look at changing other components.

mick wolfe · « **Reply #11 on:** 23 Sep 2021, 05:22 pm »

I have to echo what's already been said by Tyson and WGH. Something is lurking in the synergy of your system that's giving you an inconsistent and spotty presentation. Example: Is your current amp comfortable driving a speaker with a 4 ohm nominal impedance? Just an example, but without knowing what your system consists of in the way of components, it's hard to give an accurate assessment.
My only experience with Spatial was with the early M2 Turbo. FWIW, I found that once dialed in and with the right componentry, it offered a fun, listen all day presentation. This includes all genres of various quality at somewhat generous volume levels as well. Yes, acoustic room treatments are a big plus, BUT only if you solve what appears to be basic synergy issues.

Early B. · « **Reply #12 on:** 23 Sep 2021, 06:10 pm »

You're fine, OP.... don't fix what isn't broken. It's simple -- stop playing crappy recordings. OK, so your system is more revealing -- that's precisely the goal!!

Every true audiophile engages in "recording hunting." Welcome to the club.

WGH · « **Reply #13 on:** 23 Sep 2021, 06:38 pm »

We need a point of reference. What are the 'crappy' recordings you are listening to?

A lot of people have Tidal so they can compare their experience with yours using the exact same recordings.

Or it could be Tidal, we can compare your music list to the original CD. I had the $20 a month Tidal premium service for over a year and finally had to cancel it because everything sounded worse (compressed dynamics, flat presentation, attenuated highs) compared to a ripped flac or hi-res download.

dallaire1 · « **Reply #14 on:** 23 Sep 2021, 08:32 pm »

Wow guys, lots of good info, thanks ! Well my system is about as simplistic as one can get. I have the NAD Masters series M33 driving the M3's. Speaker cables are Danny's 24 strand DIY kit with spades and that's it. Pretty complex huh ? The recordings in referring to are just random recordings I have come across while perusing.. namely older stuff from the 70's I have noticed seem to be lacking in a lot of areas compared to some newer stuff, not to say there aren't some really good ones that were produced in that era. I know my room would correct quite a bit if it were finished, however I do have makeshift bass traps 5 foot tall in front corners and 2x4 insulation boards strategically placed about the room, nothing on ceiling as of yet. I know what I need to get done, just need the time to get some time involved measuring, building QRD's, bass traps and absorption panels. I have vested a lot of time in years past to measuring, testing and tuning a few spaces in previous listening rooms just not in my current house as of yet.

dallaire1 · « **Reply #15 on:** 23 Sep 2021, 08:42 pm »

Here is an example: Karl Benjamin (Friends) on Tidal. Recording sounds beautiful "at first" then a few seconds into the song I can hear what sounds like "clicks of static" in the highs that got picked up from something in the recording ?? otherwise sounds very good indeed. Again this is just one example, I don't even know if most people "non critical listeners" would even notice.

mick wolfe · « **Reply #16 on:** 23 Sep 2021, 10:04 pm »

I think you may have narrowed the field a bit now. I would try another source (aside from Tidal) if just on a trial basis. Just a guess at best as I don't use streaming of any kind as my main source. But it's always wise to look at the source first when troubleshooting. Aside from that, it appears addressing room acoustics might help. This especially if you truly feel you have an issue in this area. As a positive, I've always found open baffles easier to tame and work with in this area than box types. Many have found diffusion panels a good option with open baffles and panels. FWIW, I never had any bass issues with my older Spatial M2's. Given enough distance from the front wall, I doubt bass traps would be necessary. Once again, just a guess not knowing your room. You might try a different power cable on the NAD, but that's a "Hail Mary" at best.

Tyson · « **Reply #17 on:** 23 Sep 2021, 10:06 pm »

I tried both Tidal and Qobuz and stuck with Qobuz because it sounded a lot better. Tidal consistently sounded more flat, thin and inorganic. Plus Qobuz has REAL hirez streams and not that fake Tidal Masters compressed crap.

Rusty Jefferson · « **Reply #18 on:** 24 Sep 2021, 06:57 pm »

Quote from: dallaire1 on 23 Sep 2021, 08:42 pm

Here is an example: Karl Benjamin (Friends) on Tidal. Recording sounds beautiful "at first" then a few seconds into the song I can hear what sounds like "clicks of static" in the highs that got picked up from something in the recording ?? otherwise sounds very good indeed. Again this is just one example, I don't even know if most people "non critical listeners" would even notice.

I've never heard this song but just called it up on my phone. It sounds like brushes on a snare (or electronic simulation) that are being panned from one channel to the other. Doesn't sound like static here, but I'm not there to hear what it sounds like on your system. You gotta massage that system and room so it doesn't sound like static to you. That's what matters.

Craig B · « **Reply #19 on:** 24 Sep 2021, 07:25 pm »

Quote from: Rusty Jefferson on 24 Sep 2021, 06:57 pm

I've never heard this song but just called it up on my phone. It sounds like brushes on a snare (or electronic simulation) that are being panned from one channel to the other. Doesn't sound like static here, but I'm not there to hear what it sounds like on your system. You gotta massage that system and room so it doesn't sound like static to you. That's what matters.

Several months ago, someone on another hi-fi forum posted that on a particular audiophile recording he heard what he described as "digital artifacts," and took the recording and production team to task for it. He even told at precisely what time in the recording he heard it. I had a copy of the recording myself, so I listened closely, and at the designated time, the sound was there, but it wasn't a digital "artifact" at all. It was just the sound of a finger sliding on a wound guitar string.