Apple TV(2) + BDA-1: Thumbs Up

headshrinker2 · « **on:** 18 May 2011, 06:58 pm »

I was up way, way too late last night. Paying for it today, but it was sooo worth it. I started listening to tunes and there was no turning back.... lots of coffee today!

For those who haven't heard it, ATV(2) + BDA-1 DAC is a truly wonderful combination. I'm currently streaming my iTunes library from a PC. Inexpensive toslink connection.

No doubt, ATV(2) is a no-brainer way to enjoy wirelessly streaming iTunes into your system. As they say, it is "cheap as chips". But, I'm continuing to discover it is much, much more than that. This is not just pleasant background listening. It may not hold a candle to a high end CDP, but the ATV(2)+BDA-1 combo is very, very satisfying.

Inexpensive streamer + high quality DAC= good tunes.

Stu Pitt · « **Reply #1 on:** 19 May 2011, 01:35 am »

I run an ATV 1 into a Rega DAC and a B60 integrated. I'm really digging what I'm hearing in my home.

What toslink cable are you using? I bought a Sonicwave glass cable from Amazon for about $25 shipped. Far better than any non-glass cable I've heard. Not even close.

Not sure if the ATV 2 will benefit from a better power cord, but I bought the $80 Audioquest cable and it made a very worthwhile difference. I bought it from Music Direct with a full refund if I didn't like it policy. Needless to say, it's staying put.

The ATV 1 has an internal hard drive, which maybe would explain why it would sound better with the power cord? If you can get one and return it without losing money try it out. You never know.

Stu Pitt · « **Reply #2 on:** 19 May 2011, 01:36 am »

Also, my iPhone makes a killer remote. The iPod Touch can be used too. Apple sells refurbs on their site for $150 or so. It'll do more than just be a remote.

jaxwired · « **Reply #3 on:** 19 May 2011, 02:34 am »

I also run the ATV 2 and love it. I concur with Stu that the toslink cable matters more than you might think. I used a cheap monster plastic cable first and I liked the sound but the sound was missing the transparency of my CDP. But when I switched to a wireworld all glass cable I put my CDP up for sale. The sound is outstanding. I also love the album art displaying on my little LCD tv. Very sexy.

alexone · « **Reply #4 on:** 19 May 2011, 02:54 am »

Stu,

how do you like your Rega DAC (i assume you have the latest model?) ? and why did you prefer it over a BDA-1?

al.

Pez · « **Reply #5 on:** 19 May 2011, 03:35 am »

Not to rain on your parade, but does it bother you that the ATV has a crappy switching power supply built into it? I mean that's introducing a ton of noise, I don't care how good the rest of the set up is this can only be a bad thing in general. Perhaps a simple mod can bypass the internal PS and a decent linear PS can be used instead.

Alphonse · « **Reply #6 on:** 19 May 2011, 03:41 am »

Agreed! I am currently using an Apple TV2 with a PS Audio PerfectWave Dac. I am also using the PWD as a preamp connected via balanced cables to my Bryston PP300 SSTs. I have an iMAC and Airport Extreme and connect wired via ethernet to the ATV2. I use an iPAD wirelessly with the Remote app and use the home sharing option. It is great to sit on the couch and scroll through the iTunes library album art.

And as you say, it sounds great. Even iTunes radio stations are better than just background music.

Cheers!

Al

headshrinker2 · « **Reply #7 on:** 19 May 2011, 03:04 pm »

Pez,
I'm aware that there are many things that make the ATV not considered to be an audiophile device. Would I be interested in improving performance, sure. I'm definitely open to a mod or tweak, but only if it will make an appreciable difference. Does the power supply bother me? Nope. I really like what I am hearing with ATV(2)+BDA-1. It's a surprisingly satisfying combination.

headshrinker2 · « **Reply #8 on:** 19 May 2011, 03:07 pm »

I just ordered a glass cable from Wireworld to go between my MBP and BDA-1. Everything I've read suggested this was a good thing to try. First evening of listening was not positive. I plan on letting the music flow for a while, before forming any conclusions.

I wish I had ordered a standard Toslink cable (rather than mini to Toslink), so I could use it with my ATV. I'm reluctant to add an adaptor.

Did you get the Supernova 6?

Quote from: jaxwired on 19 May 2011, 02:34 am

I also run the ATV 2 and love it. I concur with Stu that the toslink cable matters more than you might think. I used a cheap monster plastic cable first and I liked the sound but the sound was missing the transparency of my CDP. But when I switched to a wireworld all glass cable I put my CDP up for sale. The sound is outstanding. I also love the album art displaying on my little LCD tv. Very sexy.

Stu Pitt · « **Reply #9 on:** 19 May 2011, 04:03 pm »

Quote from: alexone on 19 May 2011, 02:54 am

Stu,

how do you like your Rega DAC (i assume you have the latest model?) ? and why did you prefer it over a BDA-1?

al.

Al,

Rega only has one DAC currently. They built the Io DAC about 10-15 years ago, but it didn't stay on the market very long.

I bought the Rega DAC because I can't afford the BDA-1. I asked James twice if he could build me a stripped down BDA-1 with fewer inputs, features, etc. He very respectfully declined.

The BDA-1 is a better DAC. It also costs over twice the Rega. In comparison, the BDA-1 images and soundstages better, it has more detail, and just sounds more polished. They both pull off musicality equally well though, IMO. I don't know how to describe it, but both are equally convincing in their musical message to my ears.

I'm a huge fan of Rega's sources. I had an Apollo prior to my foray into music server stuff. My goal was to get my Apple TV to sound at least as good as my Apollo. The Rega DAC is quite a bit better than the Apollo was in my system. People were and still are touting the entry level DACs like the V-DAC and DAC Magic. They're very good for the money, but nothing near the Rega DAC. The Benchmark DAC is the same price and is very good, but it just sounds a bit bleached and sterile to my ears. Just because something may technically be correct doesn't mean it'll play music. At least IMO anyway.

The Rega DAC probably won't work in every system, but what will? The Rega DAC is a bit smoother and warmer than the BDA, but not artificially so. If someone has a warm and rich sounding system, the Rega probably won't be the best match for it IMO. I think it blends perfectly with my B60 and Audio Physic monitors.

Stu Pitt · « **Reply #10 on:** 19 May 2011, 04:06 pm »

Quote from: Pez on 19 May 2011, 03:35 am

Not to rain on your parade, but does it bother you that the ATV has a crappy switching power supply built into it? I mean that's introducing a ton of noise, I don't care how good the rest of the set up is this can only be a bad thing in general. Perhaps a simple mod can bypass the internal PS and a decent linear PS can be used instead.

If you're using the analog outputs, I'd imagine the noise would be an issue. However, using an optical output takes care of that (at least I think it does). I'd imagine that's why they didn't put a coax connection on it. Probably also one reason why the Mac computers have an optical out rather than coax. Then again, optical is far smaller.

Pez · « **Reply #11 on:** 19 May 2011, 07:31 pm »

No way in hell. I will tell you from first hand experience that a crap switching power supply is never anywhere near as good as a linear one when using digital. I have a squeezebox which comes with a switching power supply and has a superior coaxial d-audio vs the garbage optical of the ATV. The Squeezebox is unlistenable to me with the switching supply. The ATV with an optical and switching supply? come on, I own an Apple TV, and while I don't have any way of using the optical out, it doesn't add up. Switching power supply optical cable which produces a ton of jitter and the fact that the thing is not in any way designed for high end use. Are we even sure that it's outputing 16/44.1? Or even more is it outputing 24/96 or higher? I have some serious misgivings about this.

jaxwired · « **Reply #12 on:** 19 May 2011, 08:26 pm »

Quote from: headshrinker2 on 19 May 2011, 03:07 pm

I just ordered a glass cable from Wireworld to go between my MBP and BDA-1. Everything I've read suggested this was a good thing to try. First evening of listening was not positive. I plan on letting the music flow for a while, before forming any conclusions.

I wish I had ordered a standard Toslink cable (rather than mini to Toslink), so I could use it with my ATV. I'm reluctant to add an adaptor.

Did you get the Supernova 6?

Yes, I have a supernova 6.

Stu Pitt · « **Reply #13 on:** 19 May 2011, 10:50 pm »

You trash the ATV's optical out, yet you haven't heard it. My ATV outputs 44.1/16. My old Theta DAC wouldn't accept anything else, and it's been confirmed several times. Do a bit of research.

The ATV 2 outputs everything at 48/16.

Pez · « **Reply #14 on:** 20 May 2011, 12:47 am »

I'm trashing optical in general, not on just the ATV. Optical is universally worse than coax. That's just fact. As far as knocking it before I try it fine I will try. Maybe some magical confluence of switching power supply, optical, and some Apple Pixie dust makes this thing sound good. But be honest, what have you tested the ATV against if you're going to point out my lack of comparison? I'd like to know what exactly it's better or equal to.

Stu Pitt · « **Reply #15 on:** 20 May 2011, 12:57 am »

No need to act the way you're acting...

Coax isn't universally better than optical. Tubes aren't universally better than solid state, and digital isn't universally better than analog. It's the application of the technology, not the technology.

In some applications, optical is better. If there's a lot of electrical noise from the source component, optical is the way to go. Why? Because there's no electrical connection between the two. Trade-offs.

I didn't say the ATV was better or worse than anything else, did I? What it's better or worse than is a matter of opinion. I have no desire to justify why I bought what I bought to you or anyone else for that matter.

And yes, I've heard several squeezebox generations, along with a host of others. I bought what I bought for a number of reasons. Nothing's perfect.

Stu Pitt · « **Reply #16 on:** 20 May 2011, 01:03 am »

And if you'd be so kind as to enlighten me as to how a switching power supply effects an optical output, I'd appreciate it. Makes sense that it would add noise to an electrical connection, but I can't figure out how it would effect a series of flashing light.

srb · « **Reply #17 on:** 20 May 2011, 01:45 am »

The S/PDIF signal starts as an electrical signal. An optical S/PDIF interface is simply an extra conversion layer converting electrical pulses to optical pulses at the TOSLINK transmitter module. Any noise, error or corruption of the electrical signal will also be present after conversion to optical, and since no conversion is 100% accurate, perhaps a tiny bit more.

Steve

Diamond Dog · « **Reply #18 on:** 20 May 2011, 02:49 am »

Informative as always, Steve. Thanks for generating more light than heat. I always learn something from your posts.

D.D.

Stu Pitt · « **Reply #19 on:** 20 May 2011, 03:24 am »

Quote from: srb on 20 May 2011, 01:45 am

The S/PDIF signal starts as an electrical signal. An optical S/PDIF interface is simply an extra conversion layer converting electrical pulses to optical pulses at the TOSLINK transmitter module. Any noise, error or corruption of the electrical signal will also be present after conversion to optical, and since no conversion is 100% accurate, perhaps a tiny bit more.

Steve

I guess so. I'm no expert.

However, an optical connection electrically isolates two components from each other, thus eliminating the possibility of added electrical noise. A coax connection does not isolate the components.

Theory is one thing, practice is quite another...

Why is it that my cable box sounds far better when using optical than using coax? If "optical is universally worse than coax" and "that's just fact," what is the reason for this phenomena? Could it be that the added noise from the box negates any alleged superiority of the coax?