Dealer Direct

OzarkTom · « **Reply #40 on:** 11 Dec 2011, 03:33 am »

Hey D.D., but another customer wants to hear the British sound before he burns the place down. The customer wants to hear the complete line of over 60 speakers of Monitor Audio, to see which ones he wants to try for a 30 day trial in his home.

http://www.monitoraudiousa.com/products/

SHV · « **Reply #41 on:** 11 Dec 2011, 04:00 am »

"now the customer is king and I spend much more time discussing audio with our customers than I do our dealers/distributors at this point."
*********
Factory direct, with appropriate price reduction, would work for me. In 45+ years off and on buying of audio gear, I can't think of one piece bought after "audition" or home trial. I guess I am at the far end of some demographic curve; I have also bought 3-4 higher end cars without a test drive.

Steve

Stu Pitt · « **Reply #42 on:** 11 Dec 2011, 04:07 am »

The Internet has changed how we consume/buy just about everything. Hifi is just one tiny blip on its radar. The businesses who are doing relatively well are the ones who've embraced it. The ones who haven't figured out how to take advantage of it (in a good way) will struggle more and more each day until they figure it out or go bankrupt IMO.

There's really no easy answer, as many here have stated and everyone here has proven.

I'm old-school in 35 years of age. If a dealer has what I want, has properly demoed it for me, and is within reason in price, and most importantly stands behind what he sells, he'll get my business every time. If they act like an arrogant snob and/or bash what they don't have on the floor, my business goes elsewhere.

How I bought the my B60 was interesting... I couldn't afford a new one. I called my local dealer and told them I was looking into a used B60, and asked if they'd mind if I dropped by to hear one if they had one on the floor. They didn't have one, but told me to come by anyway to hear other Bryston gear to get a general sense of what they did. The gentleman let me hear a B100 and told me what he believed the differences were between the two. He didn't get me into the store and then start showing me other stuff in my budget range like a 'bait & switch' tactic. Actually, I asked about something he had in my range and he said 'but the B60.'

I haven't bought much from him since, as most of his stuff is beyond my means. I've bought a few cables from him for a few reasons - he had what I was interested in, he had an agreeable return policy on them if they didn't work out in my system, he charged an honest price for an honest product and stood by said product, and he treated me like a valued customer even when there was no prospect of profit. He did everything the right way. If/when I can afford to buy stuff he has other than a few cables, he and a similar type local dealer will be my first 'go to' people. It'll ultimately depend on what sounds best.

For the record James, that dealer is Audiocomm, formerly in Greenwich, CT. They recently moved to Norwalk, CT I believe. Great people.

Stu Pitt · « **Reply #43 on:** 11 Dec 2011, 04:23 am »

To expand on my previous post a little...

My local Naim/Rega/Linn dealer personally installs everything they sell in the customer's home. Buy a CDP, and they'll bring it to your house, connect it, and make sure the entire system is set up optimally (even the stuff they didn't sell you), as they want to be certain you're getting every bit of performance out of it as is possible. When they offered to do that, I asked how much they charge for that. Their answer - "It's built into the MSRP."

Should I have asked for a discount? How much? Would Audio Advisor or better yet some online discount electronics vendor do that? If every dealer had this service mentality, most hifi shops wouldn't have much to worry about. I'm not saying they should personally set up every single thing they sell, but above a few hundred dollar profit items should be handled this way IMO. The customer can always decline, but knowing they're willing to do this might be enough.

Also, I had a problem with a CDP from that dealer. I brought it to his shop, where he unsuccessfully tried to reproduce the problem. After 2 days at his shop, he brought it home and tried it. He called me and offered to bring it to my house and give it a go. I picked it up, as I was in the neighborhood anyway. He said he'd come to my house if it did it again and see if something else was amiss. What made it more of a pressing matter was that the warranty was about 30 days from expiring. He assured me he'd make good on it personally if it happened again shortly after the warranty expired. The entire time the CDP was at his place, he gave me a floor model as a loaner.

All this was for a $1k CDP. Not too many dealers would do this for anything, let alone for one of the cheapest things they sell.

nomeans · « **Reply #44 on:** 11 Dec 2011, 05:16 am »

I absolutely agree Stu. This type of customer service is an amazing extra step that the B&M stores could take to keep a customer coming back. My local B&M store has very good customer service, but not like this. I would be very hard pressed to buy anything online if this was common practice amongst B&M stores. And this is a huge sales opportunity for the store to make an additional sale, if done tastefully, obviously.

sweetspot · « **Reply #45 on:** 11 Dec 2011, 11:55 am »

I think what"irks" a lot of people (myself included) is when a Bryston dealer will not carry any product in the Bryston line for fear of not being able to sell it. Perhaps Bryston could provide a piece or two to the dealer on loan so that the consumer could at least see and hear what Bryston has to offer.After all, the dealer has little to do with aftermarket sales. Why should I pay the dealer a profit for just picking up the phone and placing an order when he has no responsibility for the product after the sale!

1oldguy · « **Reply #46 on:** 11 Dec 2011, 12:25 pm »

Quote from: sweetspot on 11 Dec 2011, 11:55 am

I think what"irks" a lot of people (myself included) is when a Bryston dealer will not carry any product in the Bryston line for fear of not being able to sell it. Perhaps Bryston could provide a piece or two to the dealer on loan so that the consumer could at least see and hear what Bryston has to offer.After all, the dealer has little to do with aftermarket sales. Why should I pay the dealer a profit for just picking up the phone and placing an order when he has no responsibility for the product after the sale!

I agree 100%.

James Tanner · « **Reply #47 on:** 11 Dec 2011, 01:19 pm »

Quote from: sweetspot on 11 Dec 2011, 11:55 am

I think what"irks" a lot of people (myself included) is when a Bryston dealer will not carry any product in the Bryston line for fear of not being able to sell it. Perhaps Bryston could provide a piece or two to the dealer on loan so that the consumer could at least see and hear what Bryston has to offer.After all, the dealer has little to do with aftermarket sales. Why should I pay the dealer a profit for just picking up the phone and placing an order when he has no responsibility for the product after the sale!

I agree sweetspot and we are trying our best to find out who those Bryston 'in name only' dealers are and move on.

james

OzarkTom · « **Reply #48 on:** 11 Dec 2011, 01:39 pm »

Quote from: James Tanner on 11 Dec 2011, 01:19 pm

I agree sweetspot and we are trying our best to find out who those Bryston 'in name only' dealers are and move on.

james

Does the Audio Advisor have a showroom to listen to items, or are they just a warehouse?

James Tanner · « **Reply #49 on:** 11 Dec 2011, 01:44 pm »

Quote from: OzarkTom on 11 Dec 2011, 01:39 pm

Does the Audio Advisor have a showroom to listen to items, or are they just a warehouse?

Hi Tom

They have 3 great demo rooms. I have done a few sales seminaries there and they draw a good crowd from the surrounding areas.

Also their sales staff is second to none on knowing the gear.

James

Phil A · « **Reply #50 on:** 11 Dec 2011, 01:58 pm »

While I've never bought anything big from Audio Advisor over many years, they are great to do business with. You are dealing with real pros and a credit to the retail industry

Stu Pitt · « **Reply #51 on:** 11 Dec 2011, 05:14 pm »

James,

Have you considered urging/requiring dealers to personally set up Bryston gear they sell to customers within a reasonable distance? If a person buys a full on system - say BP-26/4BSST2/BDP-/BDA-1 is it not worth the seller's time to go over for an hour or two and make sure everything's connected correctly, speakers are placed well, and the room is acceptable?

Assuming there's a 40% markup, I'd tend to believe the dealer made a pretty good profit. No reason why they can't send someone over after the shop closes to make sure your gear is performing the way it's supposed to.

I'm not saying have them install every single thing they sell, but your products aren't exactly entry-level or mass market. They're a premium product, and deserve premium service from the manufacturer (already taken care of quite well) and from the seller.

A hypothetical situation:
A customer wants to buy 28BSSTs. The dealer can't afford to have them on the floor. He orders them and calls the customer to come pick them up. Assuming he made 40%, he 'earned' about $8k for doing something the customer could have just as easily done on his own. On top of that, the customer has to lug them around too.

Or alternatively:
A customer wants a pair of 28BSSTs, which the dealer can't afford to display. The dealer orders them. He calls the customer when they're in and sets up a time to bring them to his home. He drives 30 minutes to the customer's home, sets them up, and makes sure the speakers are placed properly in the room, connections are correct, cables aren't crossing each other, etc. he sees some things that may help the room sound better and makes an additional sale on some diffusers. Assuming 40%, the dealer earned $8k. Was doing this not worth his time. He also earned the customer's loyalty. How much is that worth?

Just some thoughts. I'm not saying the dealer should do this for gear they're profiting a hundred bucks on, but a premium product deserves premium service from all involved.

James Tanner · « **Reply #52 on:** 11 Dec 2011, 05:17 pm »

Quote from: Stu Pitt on 11 Dec 2011, 05:14 pm

James,

Have you considered urging/requiring dealers to personally set up Bryston gear they sell to customers within a reasonable distance? If a person buys a full on system - say BP-26/4BSST2/BDP-/BDA-1 is it not worth the seller's time to go over for an hour or two and make sure everything's connected correctly, speakers are placed well, and the room is acceptable?

Assuming there's a 40% markup, I'd tend to believe the dealer made a pretty good profit. No reason why they can't send someone over after the shop closes to make sure your gear is performing the way it's supposed to.

I'm not saying have them install every single thing they sell, but your products aren't exactly entry-level or mass market. They're a premium product, and deserve premium service from the manufacturer (already taken care of quite well) and from the seller.

A hypothetical situation:
A customer wants to buy 28BSSTs. The dealer can't afford to have them on the floor. He orders them and calls the customer to come pick them up. Assuming he made 40%, he 'earned' about $8k for doing something the customer could have just as easily done on his own. On top of that, the customer has to lug them around too.

Or alternatively:
A customer wants a pair of 28BSSTs, which the dealer can't afford to display. The dealer orders them. He calls the customer when they're in and sets up a time to bring them to his home. He drives 30 minutes to the customer's home, sets them up, and makes sure the speakers are placed properly in the room, connections are correct, cables aren't crossing each other, etc. he sees some things that may help the room sound better and makes an additional sale on some diffusers. Assuming 40%, the dealer earned $8k. Was doing this not worth his time. He also earned the customer's loyalty. How much is that worth?

Just some thoughts. I'm not saying the dealer should do this for gear they're profiting a hundred bucks on, but a premium product deserves premium service from all involved.

Hi Stu,

It would be great if all dealers were like that but I am afraid we do not have enough pull with our dealers to insist on it.

james

SHV · « **Reply #53 on:** 11 Dec 2011, 06:28 pm »

"Assuming there's a 40% markup, I'd tend to believe the dealer made a pretty good profit."
**********
Using 40% as a basis for discussion, how many (more?) BDP-1s could be sold factory direct, at say $1500 or at the profit margins of the pre 2006 gray market?

Steve

PRELUDE · « **Reply #54 on:** 11 Dec 2011, 06:32 pm »

Hi, D.D
In your case I agree with you and it would be very extreme step for any dealer to go that way.
BTW this is same in any business, even I cannot get a fues or tool if the watt or numbers are unusual.
By saing to have one of each I meant the performence not the color,put it in this way if customer walks in the dealer which one you think would be prefered? To hear and experience the gear but he/she would like the different color or do not see or hear it at all.
They do not even do the show that way, but I was very impressed with BRYSTON room at Toronto show this year.They had everything they make and their top end was in display.Did they brought everything in silver and black or would it make any sense to do that and carry all that stuff?
More I read about this and realizing that the real relationship between dealer and customer has been lost too far and getting worse.

It is no surprise to see even lower price gear go out of production just like the most expensive ones. The dealer has to make enough profit to survive and customers try to get it as chaep as they can.[even if the price is right or reasonable]Now,the manufactures are depend on dealers to sell the item but if dealer do not make the minimum would have no interest on that item and eventually that item will go out of production.
Any way, How do you like your new pre amp?

Diamond Dog · « **Reply #55 on:** 11 Dec 2011, 06:41 pm »

Quote from: James Tanner on 11 Dec 2011, 05:17 pm

....I am afraid we do not have enough pull with our dealers to insist on it.

james

James : Nor should you...I'm not trying to be provocative by saying that, though. Once again working that hypothetical situation through, would you and the other owners at Bryston appreciate having your suppliers dictating to you how you should be running your business? Non-starter, right?
If a dealer doesn't either offer sufficient service and value as perceived by the customer to justify the asking price or adjust their pricing to reflect the low level of service they offer, eventually the supply of rubes dries up and the problem solves itself. The model of low service unencumbered by the stigma of low price is not a successful one indefinitely. I think the fact that it has become the dominant business model in the audio retailing industry is part of the reason dealers are dropping like flies...

D.D.

Diamond Dog · « **Reply #56 on:** 11 Dec 2011, 07:04 pm »

Quote from: PRELUDE on 11 Dec 2011, 06:32 pm

Hi, D.D
In your case I agree with you and it would be very extreme step for any dealer to go that way.
BTW this is same in any business, even I cannot get a fues or tool if the watt or numbers are unusual.
By saing to have one of each I meant the performence not the color,put it in this way if customer walks in the dealer which one you think would be prefered? To hear and experience the gear but he/she would like the different color or do not see or hear it at all.
They do not even do the show that way, but I was very impressed with BRYSTON room at Toronto show this year.They had everything they make and their top end was in display.Did they brought everything in silver and black or would it make any sense to do that and carry all that stuff?
More I read about this and realizing that the real relationship between dealer and customer has been lost too far and getting worse.
It is no surprise to see even lower price gear go out of production just like the most expensive ones. The dealer has to make enough profit to survive and customers try to get it as chaep as they can.[even if the price is right or reasonable]Now,the manufactures are depend on dealers to sell the item but if dealer do not make the minimum would have no interest on that item and eventually that item will go out of production.
Any way, How do you like your new pre amp?

I know what you're saying, PRELUDE. I was taking it to extremes to make a point about how there needs to be a balance between dealers and customers in terms of expectations vs. abilities to fulfill them.
I feel lucky to have been able to forge a good relationship with my dealer which seems to work for both of us. I get what I'm looking for out of it and in return, he's gotten a good chunk of business out of me. I've basically turned over my entire system in the last couple of years and he's supplied all of it from cables to front end and his expertise has enabled me to build something I'm absolutely thrilled with. And he's there when I need him. I have another audio shop literally within 5 minutes' walking distance from my home and I have found them so off-putting as time goes that I wouldn't spend a nickel there. I suspect I'm not alone judging from all the line-swapping etc. that's going on there lately...

The new pre-amp has not disappointed in any way and I'm really happy with it. I'm breaking in a new front end and the preamp reveals every slight change as everything comes together. Good thing you didn't ask me yesterday while I was scrambling around town trying to find a 3 amp slo-blo, though.

D.D.

Diamond Dog · « **Reply #57 on:** 11 Dec 2011, 07:07 pm »

Quote from: OzarkTom on 11 Dec 2011, 03:33 am

Hey D.D., but another customer wants to hear the British sound before he burns the place down. The customer wants to hear the complete line of over 60 speakers of Monitor Audio, to see which ones he wants to try for a 30 day trial in his home.

http://www.monitoraudiousa.com/products/

Do any of 'em come in purple?

D.D.

mamba315 · « **Reply #58 on:** 11 Dec 2011, 08:06 pm »

Maybe it's my demographic (under 30) but I see dealers as a negative when deciding what to purchase. Ive only bought from a B&M dealer once (against my better judgement) and it was not a positive experience. They were not nearby, they had attitude until they saw I was very serious, they charged more than they were supposed to, they forgot to include some mandatory hardware, etc. By contrast, almost all online purchases I've made in the past 12 years have been relatively pleasurable. The dealer model is severely out of touch, IMO.

Witness AVI out of the UK. They had a traditional dealer network selling traditional separates since the 80's but saw the writing on the wall. Canned the majority of their dealers. Started making active loudspeakers and selling direct worldwide. US customers now have a choice: easy purchase from the US distributor, or do a currency conversion and buy direct for a few bucks less. Their business is better than ever and they have thousands of new and happy customers they never would have reached before.

bummrush · « **Reply #59 on:** 11 Dec 2011, 08:34 pm »

Handle it through dealers but if a customer wants or needs set up service the dealer needs to help figure out a solution when ever possible. Service doesnt end when product goes out the door.