AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Odyssey Audio => Topic started by: Lkdog on 16 Oct 2020, 06:20 pm
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As I have noted- the new Kismet amps sound great.
One odd thing is that there is a weird hum that occurs every once in awhile.
No rhyme or reason. Not related to when any lights or anything else in particular is on. This occurs when nothing is playing.
It is not coming out of speakers. It is the amps making the hum.
System is dead quiet most all of the time. All new electrical.
Alan Maher EMI/EFI line filter boxes.
Here is link to video I took of the hum. It goes away on its own. Sometimes I do not hear it for a couple days.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rJIvYy8xoZmhh_0AdhvshX_0bg3-1-Ol/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rJIvYy8xoZmhh_0AdhvshX_0bg3-1-Ol/view?usp=sharing)
Any ideas?
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Annoying, no doubt. Since it is intermittent with long intervals that seems to rule out something in the vicinity of the audio equipment.
Maybe you have done this already but first thought is to walk around the house/garage/backyard lights/and so on, and look for ANYTHING that may have a plug and could be powering-on coincidentally to when you hear the hum.
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it could be your surge protector. i had a tripp lite which cause an intermittent noise in my system. replacing it solved my issue
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I'm wondering whether there's any DC riding on the AC into your house. I would especially wonder this if you were powering your amps straight from the wall or from a power strip with no filtration on it. Have you called Klaus?
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Intermittent hum is no fun.
Have had several. One took me three different techs to find.
My last one was a short at the input. If the interconnect was pulled slightly in one direction it created a short.
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Yeah, but this is transformer hum in the chassis itself.
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Check the transformer bolts.
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Check for DC offset when the hum occurs. If that's the issue finding the source may not be easy but you can eliminate it locally.
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Thanks for the replies.
I will try and respond to the posts in order. Excuse me if I sound ignorant about any of this.
1) SJ David- Will check next time again it happens, but there is nothing that is plugged in that is turned on that seems to trigger it (internal or external lights, TV, sprinkler system, furnace/AC, street light, sump pump, etc)
2) jmolsberg I use Tripplite ISOBAR surge protectors and the lights are all green. There was no noise of any kind in system before the Kismets showed up. As noted all new wiring. New cable modem and router and Coax runs. All good.
3) genjamon Amps running from Tripplite Isobars as noted. Not sure what DC riding on the AC into house means?? This is where I feel ignorant.... Have not talked to Klaus. Maybe he will see this thread.
4) lokie Will check all of the connections, but if it is that wouldn't it be constant hum?? Nothing gets moved around. As you know these things weight about 800 lbs each. LOL.
5) JackD That seems easy enough. It may only be one amp that is humming. Hard to tell. Its kind of a general non localized hum when it happens.
6) DaveC113 Not sure how to do that?? I do have a mulitmeter.
This is a weird problem in that it seems to be totally random. I seemed to have happened more in the first couple weeks of break in so I thought it was calming down and it is less than before.
Still happens though once in awhile.
It has not reoccurred today and I worked down here in same room all day. :dunno:
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Even though they are boxed up pretty well there is no telling what kind of "help" the folks at UPS gave them.
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I would plug the amp directly into the wall and see if the problem goes away.
I would also read this thread, https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=172731.0
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It's transformer hum, and pretty common. Discussed frequently, most recently here:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=172731.0
The OP of that thread should be receiving a regenerator soon and reporting back about the results.
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OK:
1. this is the Gen 2 of the 850 VA big momma trannies. They are dual shielded and by themselves extremely quiet.
2. the hum is without doubt strain or garbage related from the AC
3. the trannies are fine, as the hum is intermittant, yes.
4. Question arises as to changing outlets, avoiding filters etc. makes a difference....problem with AC is always a bit of the needle in the haystack scenario.
5. Try turning off the amp for 5 seconds and turn it on again......
6. Turn off the amp for 10 minutes or so...when turning it on and the relays let go after 7 seconds, is there an audible hum or "rush" or is it quiet ???
7. strangely, 5 + 6 can alleviate the problem itself, as sometimes the "garbage" in the AC accumulates and "stores" itself.
8. Offset bias was set by myself...non-issue
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The Tripp-Lite units use MOVs for surge protection, which as I understand it can degrade over time and become noisy. First step IMO should be to use them straight into the wall for a while, or at least through a power strip with zero filtering. If that solves the hum problem, then you know it’s the Tripp-Lites. If you still need the surge protection, then I would look into a design that doesn’t use MOVs. Dave at Zenwave offers one such solution. The other Dave at PI Audio offers a different solution. Both are high quality. I’m sure there are others too.
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OK:
1. this is the Gen 2 of the 850 VA big momma trannies. They are dual shielded and by themselves extremely quiet.
2. the hum is without doubt strain or garbage related from the AC
3. the trannies are fine, as the hum is intermittant, yes.
4. Question arises as to changing outlets, avoiding filters etc. makes a difference....problem with AC is always a bit of the needle in the haystack scenario.
5. Try turning off the amp for 5 seconds and turn it on again......
6. Turn off the amp for 10 minutes or so...when turning it on and the relays let go after 7 seconds, is there an audible hum or "rush" or is it quiet ???
7. strangely, 5 + 6 can alleviate the problem itself, as sometimes the "garbage" in the AC accumulates and "stores" itself.
8. Offset bias was set by myself...non-issue
Klaus-
Thanks for your input. :thumb:
In answer to your test scenarios in #5 and #6 above- there is an audible hum or "rush" as you state after I turn them off and on again for 5 seconds.It goes away.
When I turned them off for 15 minutes and turned them back on they were dead quiet.
I noticed the rush hum thing you mentioned when I first plugged them in when I first got them last month. I leave my amps on all of the time so your thoughts that "garbage" in the AC accumulates and "stores" itself makes sense and might explain the random occurrence.If all I have to do is bleed the build up every few days, that is easy.
It is happening less as they have broken in (over a month now). First week or two it was happening quite a bit more. :dunno:
One product mentioned in the thread referenced by Rusty Jefferson and Doublej is this Isobar Isolation transformer.
Would this help at all? It sounds like it might be of some value no matter what.
https://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-Isolation-Transformer-Outlet/dp/B00006HPHN/ref=pd_lpo_147_t_1/141-3856641-9364810?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00006HPHN&pd_rd_r=68495003-f2c8-4fc8-b9d9-d4abb9c91676&pd_rd_w=jvAeS&pd_rd_wg=e59hq&pf_rd_p=7b36d496-f366-4631-94d3-61b87b52511b&pf_rd_r=5MW1319H4KX5KEVSHRYZ&psc=1&refRID=5MW1319H4KX5KEVSHRYZ#customerReviews (https://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-Isolation-Transformer-Outlet/dp/B00006HPHN/ref=pd_lpo_147_t_1/141-3856641-9364810?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00006HPHN&pd_rd_r=68495003-f2c8-4fc8-b9d9-d4abb9c91676&pd_rd_w=jvAeS&pd_rd_wg=e59hq&pf_rd_p=7b36d496-f366-4631-94d3-61b87b52511b&pf_rd_r=5MW1319H4KX5KEVSHRYZ&psc=1&refRID=5MW1319H4KX5KEVSHRYZ#customerReviews)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=215910)
I do have these Alan Maher EMi/RFI things in one of the outlets that I use for the system.
https://www.alanmaherdesigns.net/product-page/harmony-one (https://www.alanmaherdesigns.net/product-page/harmony-one)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=215912)
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Tripplite is OK for computers, etc., but in the audiophile world, it sounds like crap. Genjamon provided much better alternatives.
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I had a slight hum from my odyssey kismet, as well as some other gear I use, so it's more my power causing it than the amp. I got a PS Audio P5 regenerator and it is dead quiet now, as is my whole system. I can't recommend one enough.
FYI - I'm thinking of moving to the P12. So my P5 might be available at some point soon.
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PS Audio P5 is amazing and would be my recommendation for solving any/all AC hum related issues. Works great on tube gear (which is even more finicky than SS gear), so you're all set if you ever decide to get a tube preamp or tube DAC.
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...One product mentioned in the thread referenced by Rusty Jefferson and Doublej is this Isobar Isolation transformer.
Would this help at all? It sounds like it might be of some value....
Just for the record, I recommended the OP of the other thread look at the PS Audio regenerator to solve his problem, not the isolation transformer. He posted that he purchased one and we've been waiting to hear if it cured his problem. His transformer buzzing is apparently constant, not intermittent.
....Consider reaching out to members of this forum or others you use for someone who has a PS Audio regenerator and lives near you and would be willing to let you try it. Power conditioning won't prevent this issue, but the regenerator will. Worst case, pick one up on the 30 day evaluation. Probably money better spent than running a new panel with separate grounds from the main panel and dedicated lines to your equipment, only to find out there's still mechanical hum in your equipment....
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Just for the record, I recommended the OP of the other thread look at the PS Audio regenerator to solve his problem, not the isolation transformer. He posted that he purchased one and we've been waiting to hear if it cured his problem. His transformer buzzing is apparently constant, not intermittent.
....Consider reaching out to members of this forum or others you use for someone who has a PS Audio regenerator and lives near you and would be willing to let you try it. Power conditioning won't prevent this issue, but the regenerator will. Worst case, pick one up on the 30 day evaluation. Probably money better spent than running a new panel with separate grounds from the main panel and dedicated lines to your equipment, only to find out there's still mechanical hum in your equipment....
Got it. Thanks. :thumb:
Sounds like my options are to bleed out or discharge the built up AC grunge by rebooting when needed; or to get a PS Audio unit which will clear this up and also do other positive things in the system.
How big a power regenerator if I go that route should I be looking for since the Kismets have 850 VA transformers?
Thanks.
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I know everyone is suggesting regenerator. I would consider UberBuss
Don P
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I know everyone is suggesting regenerator. I would consider UberBuss
Yeah, it's easy to suggest that someone drop $5K on a PS Audio P15 and all of their problems will magically disappear, but there are less pricey (and free!) solutions to the inevitable transformer hum.
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Forgot:
did you try to plug the amps directly into the wall....????
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Yeah, it's easy to suggest that someone drop $5K on a PS Audio P15 and all of their problems will magically disappear, but there are less pricey (and free!) solutions to the inevitable transformer hum.
My apologies, but it seems a reasonable suggestion for both members struggling with the same issue. What the OP showed in his video is unacceptable for any system. I think everyone understands it's the power grid and not necessarily the equipment. Could you outline the free and inexpensive solutions to transformer buzzing?
I see the UberBuss website is down currently so no information there about whether it will stop transformer buzz. It appears to be a filter/conditioner which may (or may not) be able to stop the buzzing. Perhaps someone who had this particular problem and fixed it with the UberBuss will chime in.
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Hey guys-
Thanks for all of the suggestions. Learning a lot here.
Klaus- I did plug them straight into the wall. Have not been around much today so have not been here to listen. Its been quiet so far.
Are basic surge protectors like Tripplite Isobar considered bad or degrading in a system??
This is what I have. I have all of my stuff plugged into a couple of these. Not good idea?? What do people normally use? :scratch:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=215930)
As for investing a lot into some type of line filter, or power regenerator- not sure. Not opposed to something priced fairly reasonable if it does not degrade the sound and it works. Certainly do not wish to spend more than I have in the Kismets, though. Klaus was kind enough to bias them to match my voltage which varied from 120.8 to 121.1. They have been great. This hum is annoying, but pretty random and not debilitating. Of course would like it gone and if some type of power line filter/regenerator unit will improve all of my components further will consider that.
My system is pretty nice, but modest and maybe not considered super high end.
OPPO 105 source/VAC signature LE preamp/ Pioneer Elite SC-71 HT/ ACI Jaguar monitors/ACI LFM dual subs/ and the Kismet Amps.
One question I have about a power regenerator or higher end filter of some type is how powerful does it need to be considering the Kismets are beasts??
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You could consider trying the iFi Power Station from Amazon and at least you have 30 days to decide if it works in your system. Each outlet is individually isolated. Multiple positive reviews.
https://www.amazon.com/iFi-Power-Station-Conditioner-Protector/dp/B07TB9VPWC/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=1BWDZQISNKCUT&dchild=1&keywords=ifi+power+station&qid=1602981885&sprefix=iFi+power%2Caps%2C167&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&smid=A2H1DLE1VLYNIR&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExUUtDV0JNN0FDSUhSJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNzYyNjY1MkdMSkhDWjdISlFUTSZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwOTgyNzc3M01VSzVGR05JNkQ0USZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=
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If he has DC riding on his AC, then I don’t think the Uberbuss will solve it.
I had suggested PI Audio not for the Uberbuss, but for his other product that provides surge protection (can’t remember the name). But I would only suggest that solution if his amps sounded fine with no hum when plugged directly into the wall.
I’m not sure OP needs power conditioning if he’s happy with the sound and if the Tripp Lites are the source of the problem. In that case, it’s just a matter of removing the Tripp Lites and replacing with a more transparent and noise-free approach to surge protection (if desired). If surge protection is not necessary, then an economical but high quality power strip without conditioning or surge protection would probably suit him well. He doesn’t seem to be looking to invest in comprehensive power conditioning at this time.
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This is what I replaced my tripp lite with.
https://www.cullencable.com/111-2/
I do plug a tubed dac and tubed phono pre into this with excellent results
https://audience-av.com/conditioners/ar2p/
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This sounds like you have DC offset on the line.
You can check for it without special equipment.
Basically, it means unplugging EVERYTHING in the house and throwing all the breakers to off. Then you turn each breaker on one by one to see if the hum occurs. If not you plug in EACH device one by one to see if hum occurs. You plug in the appiances on the same circuit as your amp and the rest of the system last. In this way you can isolate the source of the hum. There are descriptions exactly how to do this elsewhere on the forum.
But sometimes it is coming from a neighbor, etc.
If you get the transformer hum in this test, then apparently it's DC on the line.
Some of the boxes suggested to you won't deal with DC offset. They fix AC.
I suggest you go to the Van Alstine site and look at their "humbuster" it is an inexpensive box that's specifically for getting rid of DC on the line. It works. Worked for me. No need to spend multiple 3 figures or 4 figures.
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OK. UPDATE.
The hum did occur briefly in early morning for a short time with amps plugged directly into the wall.
I did listen to a fair amount of music with them plugged into wall. Didn't notice any real difference in sound.
Anyway, let's assume there is DC offset somewhere in the universe that is getting into the line.
My head is kind of spinning right now. Want to make sure I am looking at right units.
The above poster suggests a solution from Van Alstine I will check out. (thanks).
What others specifically will also address that?
The PS Audio units I assume. The Ifi Power station?
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I second the hum buster suggestion. There’s also a DIY DC blocker circuit I remember being mentioned here before. If you were into DIY, you could probably assemble it and basically make a Humbuster-like device yourself. These are likely your cheapest options to deal with DC if you can’t discover and eliminate the source of the DC.
Another alternative is to buy an isolation transformer unit, and plug your amps into that. Transformers block DC by their very nature. In fact, that is a key purpose of having them in your amps at all, to make sure only AC passes into the power supply circuits of the amp. But if you go the route of buying an isolation transformer unit, then you run the risk of the isolation transformer humming instead of your amps, depending on how sensitive it is to DC. I actually suspect I have DC in my line. I tried a relatively inexpensive non-audiophile type isolation transformer before, and it hummed like a beast. Unusable. Then I bought an Equi=Core brand balanced power transformer, and it only has a very light hum you can only hear when up close to the unit. Good enough for me. My whole system is plugged into it.
A balanced power transformer also has power conditioning benefits. By its very nature, it rejects a significant amount of noise on the AC. The Equi=Core product is the most affordable BPT I have seen on the market, and is only about half the cost of the PS Audio P5/P12 mentioned above. But significantly more expensive than the Humbuster approach.
And again, none of these will provide surge protection.
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The AVA humbuster products or DIY are a very good recommendation. If you also need better surge suppression try the ZeroSurge products. Relatively inexpensive and they don't use noisy MOV's, very effective industrial quality devices. We're in SW Florida, where power is always iffy, lots of lightning in the area during summer, so I use them on everything electronic. So far, so good.
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...Another alternative is to buy an isolation transformer unit, and plug your amps into that. Transformers block DC by their very nature...
Exactly. That big ass transformer on the telephone pole outside your house is blocking DC. If your neighbor was intentionally putting DC on the AC of his house, it's not getting to your house. It's unlikely transformers buzz because of DC coming into your home, and it's also unlikely you're generating DC inside your home unless you've got some really old tube radio equipment turned on. It's also difficult to measure to see if there's DC on the AC line but it can be done and the most likely scenario is there will be none.
The buzzing is most likely caused by noise on the AC line perhaps because of poor or corroded connections at the pole or at the meter, or just because of location, distance from the substation, etc. Whatever the issue, something at the point of use seems like the best answer. If the Humbuster or UberBuss do it, great. I've never seen someone post saying they had this particular problem (transformer buzzing) and cured it with one of those devices. :D
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I had some hum with a tube amp and tried an Van Alstine humbuster. It didn't help. I like Frank's products, have the SET120 amp, but my hum issue wasn't what the humbuster fixed. The only product I've tried that has removed hum or buzz is the PS Audio P5 regenerator.
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It might be a grounding mismatch between components. In which case only something like the P5 will fix it. Or, the other option is to use some Jensen Audio line level iso transformers between your dac/preamp/amp. I've tried both and the P5 is a better solution.
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Try the obvious first before going down the rabbit hole (where, admittedly, you can get lucky)
Put them straight into the wall for a few days first !!!!!!!!!!!!! The amps are well protected, unless, of course you're in the middle of this one...
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=215962)
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Try the obvious first before going down the rabbit hole (where, admittedly, you can get lucky)
Put them straight into the wall for a few days first !!!!!!!!!!!!! The amps are well protected, unless, of course you're in the middle of this one...
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=215962)
Well, since it is a misty cold day here in Iowa I have been in my basement listening room most of morning.
Amps have been plugged straight into the wall outlets.
The transformer hum is pretty loud a couple times already this morning. :o :cry:
So short answer is that isn't clearing it up. Might have been better plugged into the Tripplite Isobars FWIW but it is so random hard to say.
Bottom Line is I need something to tame the DC on the line.
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Maybe this would help?
https://avahifi.com/collections/accessories/products/humdinger-dc-line-blocker
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Maybe this would help?
https://avahifi.com/collections/accessories/products/humdinger-dc-line-blocker
Yep. Looking at that. Some say it is great. A couple people here don't think so, but always a lot of opinions in the audio world. LOL.
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I know everyone is suggesting regenerator. I would consider UberBuss
Don P
I am not suggesting a regenerator. I am suggesting figuring out what is causing the problem and then addressing it directly. But to audiophiles that's no fun. Why would an audiophile spend money having a dedicated circuit put in when then can buy a new gadget and then swap it out for something different and purportedly better in a few years?
Sh!t. I just convinced myself I am not an audiophile.
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I am not suggesting a regenerator. I am suggesting figuring out what is causing the problem and then addressing it directly. But to audiophiles that's no fun. Why would an audiophile spend money having a dedicated circuit put in when then can buy a new gadget and then swap it out for something different and purportedly better in a few years?
Sh!t. I just convinced myself I am not an audiophile.
For the record- the system is on its own newly installed line from the breaker box, but obviously shares the overall feed into the house with the usual stuff. Nothing else on this line except the system. Because it is random and not constant and not coming out of speakers one can rule out garden variety 60hz hum from dimmers, cable tv, etc.
As a guitar player I know 60hz hum inside and out.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=215969)
The possible source of DC could be anything inside, or possibly outside the house. I wish it was as simple as when the dimmer was on, or when the refrigerator compressor kicked on, or the hair dryer or toaster was on, or somebody next door was using an electric leaf blower, etc. I have read on the Van Alstine circle thread on his Humdinger that he says Plasma TVs are known to induce DC on the AC line they are plugged into. I do have a Pioneer Plasma on the line in my dual HT/2 channel setup. But the transformer hum happens when the TV is not even on also.
It happens at 10 am, it happens at 6pm, it happens at 2 am. Who the fck knows. :dunno:
I would like it to stop. Wouldn't mind some additional line conditioning to lower noise floor along with it.
Yes, I am as probably as obsessive as the next guy or I wouldn't be on here with the rest of the people here who are all crazy TBH. :lol:
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If it were in my system I would definitely like it to stop too. It sounds like it could be something outside the house like when someone else's refrigerator kicks in, UGH!. Quoting Dave C. from the linked thread, "Power company will usually come out for free. It's not unusual to have issues with power delivery that can be fixed for free as it is often in their equipment outside the house. I don't think you'll lose anything by having them come out to inspect."
You'll need the power regenerator anyway to achieve your other goals so then it's a matter of if the problem goes away with a regenerator what extra benefit might you get by addressing the source of the problem.
If the power company needs to come inside the house and charge you to identify the problem, I think that's fair. If you called an electrician to figure out what was wrong, they would charge you and then tell you if the problem was identified to be outside the house you need to call the power company.
Good luck. Power problems seem far tougher to determine root cause than a channel problem.
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If it's a hum, not a buzz, then it's NOT DC on the line or a ground loop. Most likely at some point your transformer was tightened too tight (or possibly dropped) causing the insulation within it to break. Loosen the transformer and place some sorbothene or other type of material under it. Then tighten it backup snug, don't over-tighten it again! Transformer cores are constructed by stacking layers of thin iron laminations, separated by a thin non-conducting layer of insulation. When the core becomes magnetized, the magnetic field vibrates between the adjacent plates, stretching and squeezing the adhesive and insulation between them causing the hum.
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If it's a hum, not a buzz, then it's NOT DC on the line or a ground loop. Most likely at some point your transformer was tightened too tight (or possibly dropped) causing the insulation within it to break. Loosen the transformer and place some sorbothene or other type of material under it. Then tighten it backup snug, don't over-tighten it again! Transformer cores are constructed by stacking layers of thin iron laminations, separated by a thin non-conducting layer of insulation. When the core becomes magnetized, the magnetic field vibrates between the adjacent plates, stretching and squeezing the adhesive and insulation between them causing the hum.
Its more like a buzz. The first post has a video of it you can listen to.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rJIvYy8xoZmhh_0AdhvshX_0bg3-1-Ol/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rJIvYy8xoZmhh_0AdhvshX_0bg3-1-Ol/view?usp=sharing)
I am talking to Klaus today and will report back.
I appreciate everyone's help. I am sure it will get worked out. :thumb:
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Sounds like transformer hum to me. Some sorbethene feet placed under the transformer resolved it for me on a number of amps over the years. Looks like Klauss says its DC on the line. Will be interesting to see how this gets resolved. I'm certainly not saying I know more than Klauss just relaying my experience. Good luck.
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Wow, lots of replies!
I thought I'd mention that most power conditioners won't solve a DC offset issue, including the SurgeX devices I refurb and modify. They do have the same Zero-Surge, non-MOV technology, plus a very good EMI/RFI filter and some other features that will shut off power if voltage gets too high or low, etc. They work great for big amps too, the design is intended for industrial applications and is used in some very high end installations including Carnegie Hall, NASA uses them, as does Boeing and others... so these are really good for surges and emi/rfi reduction but NOT DC offset.
Transformers may work, but they themselves might hum with dc offset too. And they are $$$.
Regens can work very well but are also $$$ and results of this, and any other AC power filters, depend on how much noise you currently have.
Another option for reducing AC noise is Furutech NCF products. A single NCF receptacle can make a big difference!
I'd recommend calling the power company if the issue persists. It may be at your neighborhood trafo and the cause my be in a neighbor's house. It's not for sure an issue in your own home.
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Going to try the Van Alstine Humdinger to see if that clears up the DC issue.
When going straight into the wall it still happens.
Might be a little less when on the Tripplite Isobar.
Actually sounds a little better through the Tripplite Isobar upon closer listening which does some very basic line filtering.
A little edgier straight from the wall.
Will report back.
Thanks again to all.
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I've had a ton of equipment through my system over the years. The only component that's ever had any noise problem was the Kismet amp I purchased. I did everything Klause asked of me to fix it including replacing the PS Transformer. Finally returned it and was charged restocking, credit card fees and basically everything else he could think of to not return my money. Good Luck!
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Bob Watson,
Let me just say that you're welcome that I took back the amp after all the crap I went through...works great, doesn't work, works great agaion, sent out parts to exchange because you can do it, works great again, then it doesn't (as per phone and emails).....so I decided to take it back to stop this nonsense and nope, we don't have restocking fees, but you sure as hell had to pay the cc charge and shipping....and you're also welcome to have kept the gear that I got you for a big discount, and no, that's still not the whole story, and let's leave it at this........however, I noticed that you're smearing me all over the net now, nice going dude.....
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Going to try the Van Alstine Humdinger to see if that clears up the DC issue.
When going straight into the wall it still happens.
Might be a little less when on the Tripplite Isobar.
Actually sounds a little better through the Tripplite Isobar upon closer listening which does some very basic line filtering.
A little edgier straight from the wall.
Will report back.
Thanks again to all.
This thread reminded me that I should remove the Tripp lite Isobar from my modest system and plug everything into the wall. I don't have enough outlets to do that so I did the next best thing which is to plug everything into a Wiremold power strip. I agree with you. i think it's a little less edgy with everything plugged into the Isobar.
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Yes, the Isobar takes away some of the top end dynamics...
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Yes, the Isobar takes away some of the top end dynamics...
That could very well be. It sounds a hair softer through the Tripp Lite.
The recording that actually sounded a little edgier is poorly mastered and too harsh to begin with.
If the Van Alstine humdingers work, then I need to try a better surge/line filter.
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I've had a ton of equipment through my system over the years. The only component that's ever had any noise problem was the Kismet amp I purchased. I did everything Klause asked of me to fix it including replacing the PS Transformer. Finally returned it and was charged restocking, credit card fees and basically everything else he could think of to not return my money. Good Luck!
:wtf:
Take it offline.
Just trying to troubleshoot an issue that actually happens <1% of the time in my AC line in my house, in my neighborhood power grid.
Could be a neighbor's garage door opener for all I know. :dunno:
Comes with the territory in this hobby. Not a big deal and will get worked out.
Love the amps. And I have listened to a shit ton of high end equipment and live and studio music over the past 40 years. The best system I have had by fair margin now which maybe isn't saying much but it actually suspends disbelief on good recordings.
Have listened to more music this past two months than in previous five years. That is the whole idea.
I don't mind working out little problems.
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Also try shorting the inputs on the amp and see if the problem persists. If it does then it’s your AC or even just the amp itself. But if the problem stops then it’s almost certainly a grounding differential between the amp and you preamp and/or source components.
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"...
Comes with the territory in this hobby. Not a big deal and will get worked out.
Love the amps. And I have listened to a shit ton of high end equipment and live and studio music over the past 40 years. The best system I have had by fair margin now which maybe isn't saying much but it actually suspends disbelief on good recordings.
Have listened to more music this past two months than in previous five years. That is the whole idea.
I don't mind working out little problems."
I applaud your attitude and calm approach to this.
I live in a house built in 1957 and as far as I know the electric system has not been touched other than new breakers. All to code circa 1957. The wall outlets are all 20 amp with hot-and-return two wire connection.
I started a project of replacing outlets last weekend. On one circuit I cut the breaker. All lights, LED displays, etc went dark as expected. Put a DMM on the circuit as a double check and found that there was still voltage reading on the line. About 38 volts. But the breaker was open. Did some further testing to confirm no current would flow while setting the new outlet. So I have some "phantom" voltage on the line. Never dealt with this before in my DYI experience.
As with the OP I am trying all sorts of things from reading about this online. Differing opinions and solutions abound but the mystery persists. This stuff happens.
-David
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OK, Update for those interested or who might have a similar issue in their AC line.
I got the a pair of AVA Humdingers. They have two receptacles in them so I tried one to begin with.
I was not sure if they would get hot, or stressed with both the Kismets plugged in.
The one is running cool and I have been running music and video for a couple days so no worries there.
So far so good after two days............... :popcorn:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=216210)
Will let you know if that changes, but usually I would hear an episode of DC hum even if just for a little bit every day or every other day.
And if you were wondering- no impact on sound.
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^ nice. good to hear
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This is more or less a repost, but I offer it in case I can save anyone time and trouble...
I had a hum issue with the transformer in my Tempest - and still had the hum even with the mu shielded transformer.
It turned out the transformer hum was caused by DC in the lines. A (now discontinued) PS Audio UPC-200 Humbuster made the hum disappear.
Klaus was incredibly caring, and went WAY beyond the call of duty trying to solve this issue.
Thank you Klaus!
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OK, Update for those interested or who might have a similar issue in their AC line.
I got the a pair of AVA Humdingers. They have two receptacles in them so I tried one to begin with.
I was not sure if they would get hot, or stressed with both the Kismets plugged in.
The one is running cool and I have been running music and video for a couple days so no worries there.
So far so good after two days............... :popcorn:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=216210)
Will let you know if that changes, but usually I would hear an episode of DC hum even if just for a little bit every day or every other day.
And if you were wondering- no impact on sound.
Yay! :thumb:
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Final update.
Problem seems to be solved. One week and no hum. :beer:
Highly recommend to try the AVA Humdinger for this particular issue.
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I too solved the transformer hum on my Odyssey Kismet Stereo amp using a DC blocker (iFI SilentPower). One nice thing about the iFi product is that it’s sold through Amazon Prime, so if you aren’t sure whether him is caused by DC, you can buy it, try it, and return it if it doesn’t solve the issue.
On the other hand, it’s very light weight and made of plastic, and it feels like my heavy 7 GA power cable is gonna pull it out of the socket.
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Edit: with the iFI SilentPower in place, my Kismet is dead quiet. So glad I found this thread and gave the dc offset blocker a try. I’d suggest anyone else suffering from transformer hum to look into the various causes including dc offset. These amps are amazing when fed clean power.