Help Spend My Money: Turntable Purchase Advice

ernest787 · « **on:** 29 Sep 2014, 01:22 pm »

Ok. It looks like I'm going to be in the market for a new TT very soon and would love some advice and to get opinions from you lovely folks.

Current Setup:

Speakers - Salk HT3s
Preamp - ARC SP14
Power - Crown XLS 2500
TT - Rega RP1

Initially I was going to look at upgrading my power amp early next year and then down the road look at upgarding my Turntable. Unfortunately, my Rega is now having severe platter wobble issues. I have an email out to a dealer to see if they can help me, and depending on the outcome of that I may end up upgarding my TT instead.

That said, prior to this issue I was planning to save some up and purchse a VPI Classic. I was hoping to buy a the 2 or 3; however, if I buy within the next month or two the Classic will be outside of my budget. I have since shifted my focus to the Scout 1.1, Traveler and the Rega RP6.

I'm interested in your thoughts on all 3 tables. I have my hesitations on the Rega b/c of the issue I'm currently having with the RP1. Although, my research leads me to believe this is only a problem with their entry level table and may not be an issue with the RP6.

I'm also open to other suggestions, and have only done minimal research on Clear Audio, but they seem to be another company to consider in this price range.

I'd also be interested to hear what cartridges you would recommend to pair with these tables. I listen to a lot of rock music if that makes any difference in your suggestions.

I look forward to any and all input!

neobop · « **Reply #1 on:** 29 Sep 2014, 03:05 pm »

Hi,
How about this?
http://app.audiogon.com/listings/turntables-vpi-industries-classic-2-turntable-in-walnut-finish-2014-09-28-analog-33020-hollywood-fl

He's a VPI dealer
neo

ernest787 · « **Reply #2 on:** 29 Sep 2014, 03:11 pm »

hmmmm. that's very tempting. It's a little more then I'm wanting to spend though on short notice, just due to factoring in the cost of a new cartridge as well.

I may have to sweet talk to the wife though

BobM · « **Reply #3 on:** 29 Sep 2014, 03:19 pm »

Waituntil the new VPI "Prime" comes out. This is going to redefine what a turntable can do at its price point.

jarjar · « **Reply #4 on:** 29 Sep 2014, 03:21 pm »

I ended up going with the Marantz TT-15 when I was looking last year...good value for the money IMO. That VPI scout sure looks nice though

I also like the look of the Concept by Clearaudio and it also looks to be a good value. Hope that the problem gets sorted with your Rega...perhaps if you bought it new you could just return it and upgrade to the RP6. Good luck!

mick wolfe · « **Reply #5 on:** 29 Sep 2014, 03:22 pm »

I would try to fix the Rega if at all possible. Then hold off until funds permit you to get into the Classic series of VPI's . Nothing wrong with the table choices you mentioned, but by not holding out for a Classic, they'll all leave you curious as to what could have been. Been there, done that. A couple years back I had enough money for a WT Simplex, but held off until I could swing the Amadeus. It's an amazing table and I'm glad I didn't compromise.

ernest787 · « **Reply #6 on:** 29 Sep 2014, 03:38 pm »

I've considered fixing, but I'd prefer not to dump the money into the Rega at this point. Although, purchasing a TT for $100 or so could be a consideration, and then I could continue to wait until I can jump into the Classic line.

Buttttt...

Neo has me very tempted with his posting,

Bob: any info on when the Prime is going to be released?

I.Greyhound Fan · « **Reply #7 on:** 29 Sep 2014, 03:52 pm »

If you decide to buy a cheap TT first, I have a friend that refurbishes old gear. He has a vintage Philips 312 TT for $150. I just bought a Pioneer PL-55x from him for my son. I looked at the Philips and it is in good working condition. You could easily flip it and not lose money on it. If you are interested, let me know.

If you don't want to spend a lot of money on a new TT, consider a Clear Audio Concept. It's a lot of bang for the buck. Pair it with a good cartridge and it will perform way above its price point. If you listen to a lot of RR then consider a cartridge with a warmer sound like a Nagaoka MP-500 or Ortofon 2M Black for a cartridge under $1K. What are you using for a phono preamp?

Larry

neobop · « **Reply #8 on:** 29 Sep 2014, 03:54 pm »

Quote from: BobM on 29 Sep 2014, 03:19 pm

Waituntil the new VPI "Prime" comes out. This is going to redefine what a turntable can do at its price point.

Hard to call. The Prime w/o the steel chassis is going to sound a little mushy compared to Classic (probably). I was reading an arm comparison and the 12" 3D was said to be just a tiny bit better than the regular 12". Most of the time they couldn't tell the difference.

The used Classic 2 is $1K cheaper. The ad says make offer, so maybe even less. It looks like the 3D arms will come down in price? I've never seen a table manufacturer with so many models. I don't think Thorens had so many at the same time. Now if they could only make a cheaper direct drive.....
neo

ernest787 · « **Reply #9 on:** 29 Sep 2014, 04:10 pm »

I'm glad to see the recommendation for the 2m Black. I already had my eye on that one and was wondering how it would sound paired with any of the mentioned tables.

I use the Phono Stage built into the ARC SP14.

brooklyn · « **Reply #10 on:** 29 Sep 2014, 04:26 pm »

My Avatar will tell you I like the VPI Turntables, I’ve had the Scout for a few
years now and if I was to get (upgrade) a new table it would be another VPI
but so far I haven't found the need. The Scout is built like a tank and sounds
great with the Ortofon 2m Black Cartridge I’m using with it. Made in the USA

I would get the best VPI table I could afford and call it a day. My 2 cents.

Regards,
Brooklyn

ernest787 · « **Reply #11 on:** 29 Sep 2014, 05:09 pm »

silly question. The Rega RP1 was pretty much plug and play. With the VPI models there appears to be a little more to the set up of the turntable. For someone who has never peformed this kind of set up, how difficult will it be?

I.Greyhound Fan · « **Reply #12 on:** 29 Sep 2014, 05:13 pm »

Here is a brief user review comparing the Nagaoka MP-500 to the 2M Black. I am partial to warmer cartridges for RR as RR LP's tend to lean to the bright side.

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=479481

http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread.php?99054-Nagaoka-MP500

mick wolfe · « **Reply #13 on:** 29 Sep 2014, 05:52 pm »

Quote from: ernest787 on 29 Sep 2014, 03:38 pm

I've considered fixing, but I'd prefer not to dump the money into the Rega at this point. Although, purchasing a TT for $100 or so could be a consideration, and then I could continue to wait until I can jump into the Classic line.

Buttttt...

Neo has me very tempted with his posting,

Bob: any info on when the Prime is going to be released?

Well the Rega is worthless for for future sale if it's not fixed. To me it makes more sense to put that $100 into getting it repaired. Otherwise you're sitting there with a broken Rega of no value and a $100 turntable that needs more of an investment for restoration.

BobM · « **Reply #14 on:** 29 Sep 2014, 05:59 pm »

Quote from: neobop on 29 Sep 2014, 03:54 pm

I was reading an arm comparison and the 12" 3D was said to be just a tiny bit better than the regular 12". Most of the time they couldn't tell the difference.

The new 3D arm is miles ahead of the old VPI arms. I haven't seen anyone post anything but positive things about it. That arm alone will make the difference in a Prime over a Classic 2. Of course put that arm on a Classic 3 and , well... now you've really got something.

Devil Doc · « **Reply #15 on:** 29 Sep 2014, 06:04 pm »

Quote from: ernest787 on 29 Sep 2014, 05:09 pm

silly question. The Rega R1 was pretty much plug and play. With the VPI models there appears to be a little more to the set up of the turntable. For someone who has never peformed this kind of set up, how difficult will it be?

If you're anal-retentive, have lots of patience, and are attentive to detail in the extreme, it's a piece of cake. Absent those attributes, you're on your own.

Doc

neobop · « **Reply #16 on:** 30 Sep 2014, 12:00 am »

Quote from: BobM on 29 Sep 2014, 05:59 pm

The new 3D arm is miles ahead of the old VPI arms. I haven't seen anyone post anything but positive things about it. That arm alone will make the difference in a Prime over a Classic 2. Of course put that arm on a Classic 3 and , well... now you've really got something.

How do you know that? Mikey did a comparison on one of his vote-in thingies, and guess what? The regular arm won. I'm not saying that means much, but saying the better arm beats the better table is a guess. You're probably right, but compared to what, an RP1 playing rock ?

Trying to get some perspective, I think Ernest would be tickled to death with either one. The WAF might be higher with a Classic 2 and with Prime to be released in a few months he could probably get a few hundred off the price.

I don't know what's right for Earnest, but knowing VPI, Prime might not be released until Feb.

Ernest,
http://app.audiogon.com/listings/turntables-audiomeca-pierre-lurne-j1-with-sme-series-iv-excellent-lower-price-2014-09-04-analog-01240-lenox-ma

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/turntables-avid-volvere-turntable-2014-09-08-analog-98109-seattle-wa

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/turntables-micro-seiki-ddx-1000-w-gold-metal-platter-mat-ax1-arm-board-2014-09-29-analog-94122-san-francisco-ca

Just some stuff to look at.
neo

ernest787 · « **Reply #17 on:** 30 Sep 2014, 12:07 am »

Neo

I really appreciate all your help. I was actually recommended that Avid by someone else as well. I haven't read much on that TT though. I did speak to the seller of the Classic 2. It appears I can get the Classic 2 with a dynavector 10x5 installed for an amount the wife is willing to approve. I'm still a little nervous about pulling the trigger on it just b/c it is an unexpected expense.

putz · « **Reply #18 on:** 30 Sep 2014, 04:16 am »

Quote from: ernest787 on 30 Sep 2014, 12:07 am

Neo

I really appreciate all your help. I was actually recommended that Avid by someone else as well. I haven't read much on that TT though. I did speak to the seller of the Classic 2. It appears I can get the Classic 2 with a dynavector 10x5 installed for an amount the wife is willing to approve. I'm still a little nervous about pulling the trigger on it just b/c it is an unexpected expense.

Spend a little more and get the Dynavector DV20XL. Much better cart then the 10x5. I listen to mostly Rock on my VPI Aries 1 with the 20XL and it rocks. And spend an extra $50 for the Soundsmith Counterintuitive. It really helps make the finetuning of setup easy on VPIs.

neobop · « **Reply #19 on:** 30 Sep 2014, 01:08 pm »

Ernest,
Trying to look at the big picture, it's a little confusing. I suspect you're used to a lively sound, maybe even bright? The SP-14 is nice, a little more fet sounding than some other ARC, but the Crown amp? I haven't heard the 2500 (class D 440 wpc), but I had an old Crown for a few minutes and it seemed relentlessly bright. I guess this is more neutral? Maybe it's one of those combos that sounds better than it looks on paper.

Good speakers (Salk) tend to reveal what's upstream, but it's hard to get a handle on the character of your system. I don't think you mentioned the cart, but the Rega is lively and might run a hair fast. I think almost any upgraded table will take some getting used to. That said, your front end is your weak link, and maybe the amp.

Looking at these tables, IMO you should get one of the VPIs. Avid isn't as popular over here as in the UK. They seem a little overpriced and I think you need a suspension like you need a hole in your head. If it was a Basis, that would be another story. The Avid is $2K w/o arm. Are you going to mess with that? I suspect the price was reduced for good reason, he wants to sell it.

I don't know the numbers on the deal with the Classic, but I suspect you could do better. Yea, it's a $4K table, but with Prime coming out in a few months he might have trouble moving it. He'll tell you list price and how much you're saving, but this is a used table. Does it come with a warranty? If so, and you have a problem are you going to ship it to Florida? This is probably the second time he's selling this table. I'm telling you this to put it in perspective. He's not going to give away the table, but he might already have his money out of it and be anxious for a sale.

Speaking of carts - I guess you need a med/high output MC or a MM. The 10X-5 is decent, but I think you should hold out for the 2M Black or maybe the DV20XH. The Black should be a bit livelier. I'm not sure about the DV20XH match up with the arm. When I heard it, seemed to have big bass and accurate response. A Sumiko Blackbird might be better than both. Don't know if the guy in Florida is a Sumiko dealer. Get a nice cart thrown in with the deal if you go for the Classic.
neo