AudioCircle
Community => Non-audio hobbies and interests => Spectator Sports => Topic started by: stlrman on 12 Mar 2020, 01:53 am
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After Utah Jazz player tested positive.
Wow !!
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I’ve suspended all audio activities after my dac tested positive for covid19.
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March Madness to follow almost certainly. Chances for UFC 249 next month also seem very slim now.
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I’ve suspended all audio activities after my dac tested positive for covid19.
As a precaution, I've stopped using USB, AES, and coaxial. My DACs will be limited to ethernet and optical for isolation and quarantine. More to follow...
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Many music concerts are canceled. :(
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All of this should’ve been done months ago. When the entire US has only tested 5k people AS OTHERS TEST 5-10K PER DAY, well you don’t find what you don’t look for. Get ready for the real numbers. Stay safe all.
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The fear will cause far more damage than the virus ....
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The fear will cause far more damage than the virus ....
Yes it has. But this must be taken seriously. I’m front line as an emergency doc. This has been spreading since the last quarter of 2019. I haven’t been able to order the testing until this week. 4 out of 5 who tested positive have minimal symptoms, and it is now proven to be community spread. Approximately 1% of those testing positive die. Am I concerned that the testing kits have not been available? Should more have been done sooner by the government? Do you think I’m scared?
Edit: I stand corrected, CNN just reported that the US has tested a staggering 11k patients thus far
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Returning to the original post and topic...now Donovan Mitchell in addition to Rudy tested positive. How many basketball players stayed 6 feet away from another player during a game?
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After Utah Jazz player tested positive.
Wow !!
The same jackass who touched all of the reporters mics that were placed on the table where he was sitting. He was making fun of the situation and proceeded to touch the equipment as he was leaving the interview. Definitely a top candidate for "idiot of the year" award!
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Yes it has. But this must be taken seriously. I’m front line as an emergency doc. This has been spreading since the last quarter of 2019. I haven’t been able to order the testing until this week. 4 out of 5 who tested positive have minimal symptoms, and it is now proven to be community spread. Approximately 1% of those testing positive die. Am I concerned that the testing kits have not been available? Should more have been done sooner by the government? Do you think I’m scared?
Edit: I stand corrected, CNN just reported that the US has tested a staggering 11k patients thus far
I am also an emergency medicine doctor. The U.S. and world have dropped the ball. As soon as this became epidemic in china, all travel should have been stopped around the world. Now it is too little too late. The train has left the station. Imagine if 10-15% of people over 60 died world wide. I am scared. I am 61 and have asthma and well controlled diabetes but it puts me at a 10% risk or more of dying. People 70 and older have a 10-15% chance of dying and even higher with all the possible health problems that go along with that age group.
This virus is bad, the number of infected people is much higher than is reported and it is more contagious than influenza.
Currently there are not enough test kits to go around and the test do have false negatives and positives. And we are currently being over run in the clinics and emergency departments with people wanting to be tested even though they have no symptoms or just the common cold.
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I am also an emergency medicine doctor. The U.S. and world have dropped the ball. As soon as this became epidemic in china, all travel should have been stopped around the world. Now it is too little too late. The train has left the station. Imagine if 10-15% of people over 60 died world wide. I am scared. I am 61 and have asthma and well controlled diabetes but it puts me at a 10% risk or more of dying. People 70 and older have a 10-15% chance of dying and even higher with all the possible health problems that go along with that age group.
This virus is bad, the number of infected people is much higher than is reported and it is more contagious than influenza.
Currently there are not enough test kits to go around and the test do have false negatives and positives. And we are currently being over run in the clinics and emergency departments with people wanting to be tested even though they have no symptoms or just the common cold.
It’s kind of difficult to fault people for panicking and wanting to be tested though. I’m asymptomatic and would be tested if it wouldn’t take away resources and time from those who really need it. Reasoning is I work for a pharmaceutical company and I’m on the manufacturing floor. But my main reason is my mother is 63, had a kidney transplant a few years ago and therefore is on immunosuppressants. I don’t want to give her this virus, so I stay away, regardless of if I have any symptoms or not. Getting tested would be nice, but far too many others need it more than I do right now. But not everyone thinks that way. Somewhat understandably too. Would you want to unknowingly give a loved one who’s at risk this virus?
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March Madness scrapped !
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It’s kind of difficult to fault people for panicking and wanting to be tested though. I’m asymptomatic and would be tested if it wouldn’t take away resources and time from those who really need it. Reasoning is I work for a pharmaceutical company and I’m on the manufacturing floor. But my main reason is my mother is 63, had a kidney transplant a few years ago and therefore is on immunosuppressants. I don’t want to give her this virus, so I stay away, regardless of if I have any symptoms or not. Getting tested would be nice, but far too many others need it more than I do right now. But not everyone thinks that way. Somewhat understandably too. Would you want to unknowingly give a loved one who’s at risk this virus?
There is no point in testing for it if you have no symptoms. It is a nasopharyngeal swab and you need to have an active infection.
We just had a patient who has been ill for 6 weeks with viral bronchitis (viral bronchitis typically lasts 4-8 weeks) and has been seen twice for this. The patient presented again yesterday demanding to be tested for Corona and said if not tested they would go to the news media. The patient doesn't fking get it that the virus does not last that long and that we cant test everybody. It also ties us up for almost an hour because we have to put on PPE protection twice and fill out several forms that have to go the the dept. of health.
Then the room cannot be used for at least 2 hours per our protocol. In addition, we do not have enough protective gear (PPE) to test every one because as soon as you step out of the room, you have to throw it all away. If you go back in the room, you have to put on all new gear.
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There is no point in testing for it if you have no symptoms. It is a nasopharyngeal swab and you need to have an active infection.
We just had a patient who has been ill for 6 weeks with viral bronchitis (viral bronchitis typically lasts 4-8 weeks) and has been seen twice for this. The patient presented again yesterday demanding to be tested for Corona and said if not tested they would go to the news media. The patient doesn't fking get it that the virus does not last that long and that we cant test everybody. It also ties us up for almost an hour because we have to put on PPE protection twice and fill out several forms that have to go the the dept. of health.
Then the room cannot be used for at least 2 hours per our protocol. In addition, we do not have enough protective gear (PPE) to test every one because as soon as you step out of the room, you have to throw it all away. If you go back in the room, you have to put on all new gear.
Great information, really appreciate your insight :thumb:
Unfortunately, very few will educate themselves, just panic, so processing capacity gets exceeded at all levels of the health systems.
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NHL put on hold , and baseball delayed two weeks , but will probably be binned as well.
I know this is not important in the grand scheme of things , but it sucks.
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The fear will cause far more damage than the virus ....
are you saying there are no reason to fear?
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Guess the hypochondriacs are having a Field Day.
Worry? gee maybe a slight concern. The far worse issue is all the OTHER STUFF the Human Species is doing as a reaction. Sure being cautious is good. Being in a panic?
In the City of origin.. I sort of remember it is a city of like 11,000,000. And how many died? 10,000,000? Gee I thinks it IS a pandemic! Oh that is incorrect.,, a few thousand.. or less than one tenth of one percent? Gee I am quaking in me' boots.
(I looked up the city and it is 11,000,000) :popcorn:
Feel free to vent.
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It looks like they're making preparations to have use work from home which will be a blessing.
Working in a 17 story office building is like being in a giant petri dish.
It's my understanding that there is a 7 day incubation period so by the time you realize you have it so do a lot of other people.
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Thanks for your input Greyhound Fan. Glad to know a fellow ED doc. Definitely PPE is time consuming, but we must protect the front line people. Hopefully your facilities have adequate supplies. Please do be careful, and take care of yourself. I’m 52 and have HTN. I guess our job contributed to that.
While I kinda agree that patients without symptoms should not be tested, they can still have it (kids in particular). I think it is important to test if the flu swab and viral cultures are negative however. The problem is that they can pass it to others with significant medical problems, elderly, frail, immunocompromised, etc. Current testing involves swabbing the oropharynx and nasopharynx. The test can then result within 24 hours, as we can send the swab to labs other than the CDC. No matter the case, we must act now and try to limit the spread.
My colleagues have shared the following link to provide some insight:
https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-act-today-or-people-will-die-f4d3d9cd99ca
Please stay safe.
pan·dem·ic
/panˈdemik/
Learn to pronounce
adjective
adjective: pandemic
(of a disease) prevalent over a whole country or the world
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Thanks for your input Greyhound Fan. Glad to know a fellow ED doc. Definitely PPE is time consuming, but we must protect the front line people. Hopefully your facilities have adequate supplies. Please do be careful, and take care of yourself. I’m 52 and have HTN. I guess our job contributed to that.
While I kinda agree that patients without symptoms should not be tested, they can still have it (kids in particular). I think it is important to test if the flu swab and viral cultures are negative however. The problem is that they can pass it to others with significant medical problems, elderly, frail, immunocompromised, etc. Current testing involves swabbing the oropharynx and nasopharynx. The test can then result within 24 hours, as we can send the swab to labs other than the CDC. No matter the case, we must act now and try to limit the spread.
My colleagues have shared the following link to provide some insight:
https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-act-today-or-people-will-die-f4d3d9cd99ca
Please stay safe.
pan·dem·ic
/panˈdemik/
Learn to pronounce
adjective
adjective: pandemic
(of a disease) prevalent over a whole country or the world
Thanks, yep forgot about the Oropharynx swab. I usually have the nurses do it as they come in the room with us initially. Every patient gets a flu swab even though there is a national shortage of them. We stopped testing suspected influenza patients because of this until we get an adequate supply of swabs.
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There is no point in testing for it if you have no symptoms. It is a nasopharyngeal swab and you need to have an active infection.
We just had a patient who has been ill for 6 weeks with viral bronchitis (viral bronchitis typically lasts 4-8 weeks) and has been seen twice for this. The patient presented again yesterday demanding to be tested for Corona and said if not tested they would go to the news media. The patient doesn't fking get it that the virus does not last that long and that we cant test everybody. It also ties us up for almost an hour because we have to put on PPE protection twice and fill out several forms that have to go the the dept. of health.
Then the room cannot be used for at least 2 hours per our protocol. In addition, we do not have enough protective gear (PPE) to test every one because as soon as you step out of the room, you have to throw it all away. If you go back in the room, you have to put on all new gear.
I’m not arguing why I shouldn’t be tested from a logistical standpoint. I didn’t know the extent of what’s needed on your end, but I figured it was as such. It would be nice if I could get tested so I don’t unknowingly give my immunosuppressed mother the virus. There’s a big difference between “it would be nice” and the “I absolutely have to” mentality. I empathize with people’s concern/panic; I don’t share it.
If there’s no reason to be tested if you’re asymptomatic, then why have I seen claims rom what seem like reliable sources that people can be carrying it for 14 days before showing symptoms? I’m trying to learn from you, as you’re someone who’s actually seeing it. Is it because the test is far less reliable for asymptomatic people? I believe the test isn’t as reliable as it should be even when people have symptoms.
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The fear will cause far more damage than the virus ....
Economy is going to suffer big time, that will probably be the biggest damage.
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If one is truly interested, I strongly encourage them to watch this - for at least the first five minutes.
Joe Rogan is interviewing Michael Osterholm.
Michael Osterholm is an American public-health scientist and a biosecurity and infectious-disease expert. He is an internationally recognized expert in infectious disease epidemiology. He is Regents Professor, McKnight Presidential Endowed Chair in Public Health, the Director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy (CIDRAP), Distinguished Teaching Professor in the Division of Environmental Health Sciences, School of Public Health, a professor in the Technological Leadership Institute, College of Science and Engineering, and an adjunct professor in the Medical School, all at the University of Minnesota.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3URhJx0NSw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3URhJx0NSw)
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I’m not arguing why I shouldn’t be tested from a logistical standpoint. I didn’t know the extent of what’s needed on your end, but I figured it was as such. It would be nice if I could get tested so I don’t unknowingly give my immunosuppressed mother the virus. There’s a big difference between “it would be nice” and the “I absolutely have to” mentality. I empathize with people’s concern/panic; I don’t share it.
If there’s no reason to be tested if you’re asymptomatic, then why have I seen claims rom what seem like reliable sources that people can be carrying it for 14 days before showing symptoms? I’m trying to learn from you, as you’re someone who’s actually seeing it. Is it because the test is far less reliable for asymptomatic people? I believe the test isn’t as reliable as it should be even when people have symptoms.
You can't test 300 million people. You may be carrying the virus and the test may be negative because there is not enough virus in the nasopharynx or mouth. The test also has false negatives and false positives. Also if you are negative, what about 2 weeks later if you become exposed, are we to test the whole population every 1-2 weeks over and over. Unfortunately, this is a bad situation for everyone, some more than others. My wife and I are in the high risk age group and we have some chronic illnesses that make us even more at risk for dying. I see possible Corona virus patients several times a day and other patients that may have it that we don't suspect of having it. I don't get tested at all. You would think with me being in the line of fire that my Healthcare system would require wee be tested every week.
However, I understand your concern.
Here is a great article about the problems of testing-
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/sick-people-across-the-us-say-they-are-being-denied-the-coronavirus-test/ar-BB117d9s?li=BBnb7Kz
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You can't test 300 million people. You may be carrying the virus and the test may be negative because there is not enough virus in the nasopharynx or mouth. The test also has false negatives and false positives. Also if you are negative, what about 2 weeks later if you become exposed, are we to test the whole population every 1-2 weeks over and over. Unfortunately, this is a bad situation for everyone, some more than others. My wife and I are in the high risk age group and we have some chronic illnesses that make us even more at risk for dying. I see possible Corona virus patients several times a day and other patients that may have it that we don't suspect of having it. I don't get tested at all. You would think with me being in the line of fire that my Healthcare system would require wee be tested every week.
However, I understand your concern.
Here is a great article about the problems of testing-
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/sick-people-across-the-us-say-they-are-being-denied-the-coronavirus-test/ar-BB117d9s?li=BBnb7Kz
Thank you for the information. My concern isn’t what it’ll do to me if I become sick. It’ll most likely run it’s course and I’ll be fine. My concern is spreading it to others. Spreading it to my mother, my 7 and 9 year old daughters, and/or compromising the medicine I make. These are my concerns; I’m not dwelling on them and going to waste anyone’s time and resources to gain a little piece of mind because there’s no indication I’m carrying anything. It would be nice to be tested, but there are way more people who actually need to be tested. That’s been my thought since it was discovered in my area.
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Much thanks to kmmd and I Greyhound Fan for stepping up and giving us the real info. There's so much disinformation going around is nice to have a voice of authority to rely on. I'm in the high risk groups (yes groups with an s) so I have some concern for myself, but even more for my mother who is quite elderly and frail, and my grandson at 2 1/2 years old may be on the edge of high risk. As I understand it travel bans are silly at this point, and no one is being screened at international airports in the US anyway. With testing a limited option, why aren't we wearing masks in public? I realize even the N95 and N99 aren't fully effective, but some protection is better than none, right? Or is that wrong?
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Much thanks to kmmd and I Greyhound Fan for stepping up and giving us the real info. There's so much disinformation going around is nice to have a voice of authority to rely on. I'm in the high risk groups (yes groups with an s) so I have some concern for myself, but even more for my mother who is quite elderly and frail, and my grandson at 2 1/2 years old may be on the edge of high risk. As I understand it travel bans are silly at this point, and no one is being screened at international airports in the US anyway. With testing a limited option, why aren't we wearing masks in public? I realize even the N95 and N99 aren't fully effective, but some protection is better than none, right? Or is that wrong?
My understanding of your question regarding masks is that masks are primarily most functional for those that are already sick, it really helps prevent the spread of viral particles when a sick person coughs and sneezes. They are generally much less effective for those that aren't ill primarily because the correct use of a mask is difficult to maintain. If a mask actually stops viral particles from entering mucus membranes, the exterior of the mask is now contaminated. Used correctly, you need to throw a mask away EVERY time you remove it and you need to wear gloves or wash your hands before doing so. Second problem with wearing masks is that they have to fit tight to work and that means you are fiddling with them constantly during the course of the day and so you are doing the worst thing you could do: putting your hands all over your face. So, theoretically yes a mask could help prevent contagion. The reality is that day to day use of them actually makes things worse not better. Besides, at this point there is a shortage of masks and we need to let the medical community have what's available because they need them and they use them correctly. Main things are to quit touching your face and wash your hands! If we all did that and practiced social distancing for a couple weeks, we'd make a huge dent in the spread of Covid-19!
One additional piece of information I ran across in the South China Morning Post a couple days ago concerns epidemiological research in South Korea. Their government has been extremely pro active about testing for the virus and they have been open about sharing that research, as opposed to other large outbreak epicenters in China and Iran. They have tested 20,000 people a day for some time and have a much larger data base from which to draw conclusions from than previously. They have found that viral infection is even more widespread than previously suspected and that even more people than previously realized have low grade symptoms. As a result, they have revised the overall mortality statistic in their country to 0.6%. (This is still 4 or 5 times the mortality rate for influenza and 20,000 people died from that last year in the USA.) Time will tell if this statistic holds or if there is much variation from country to country.
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Accidental posting
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My understanding of your question regarding masks is that masks are primarily most functional for those that are already sick, it really helps prevent the spread of viral particles when a sick person coughs and sneezes. They are generally much less effective for those that aren't ill primarily because the correct use of a masks is difficult to maintain. If a mask actually stops viral particles from entering mucus membranes, the exterior of the mask is now contaminated. Used correctly, you need to throw a mask away EVERY time you remove it and you need to wear gloves or wash your hands before doing so. Second problem with wearing masks is that they have to fit tight to work and that means you are fiddling with them constantly during the course of the day and so you are doing the worst thing you could do: putting your hands all over your face. So, theoretically yes a mask could help prevent contagion. The reality is that day to day us of them actually makes things worse not better. Besides, at this point there is a shortage of masks and we need to let the medical community have what's available because they need them and they use them correctly. Main things are to quit touching your face and wash your hands! If we all did that and practiced social distancing for a couple weeks, we'd make a huge dent in the spread of Covid-19!
One additional piece of information I ran across in the South China Morning Post a couple days ago concerns epidemiological research in South Korea. Their government has been extremely pro active about testing for the virus and they have been open about sharing that research, as opposed to other large outbreak epicenters in China and Iran. They have tested 20,000 people a day for some time and have a much larger data base from which to draw conclusions from than previously. They have found that viral infection is even more widespread than previously suspected and that even more people than previously realized have low grade symptoms. As a result, they have revised the overall mortality statistic in their country to 0.6%. (This is still 4 or 5 times the mortality rate for influenza and 20,000 people died from that last year in the USA.) Time will tell if this statistic holds or if there is much variation from country to country.
Photon, you are absolutely correct in everything that you stated. We place masks on sick patients upon checking in, and N95's need to be fit tested annually. PPE is disposable, but we have been looking at our supply, and it will run low. There's even discussion on possibly reusing some of the PPE, but we will have to see.
Leitroll, you're very welcome. :) I'm trying to share my knowledge, not vent and provide some info so that people don't end up on the vent. We are all here to learn and share, but I am frustrated and angered with the misinformation being spread. No, there are not millions of tests being available, and no, not everyone who wants one will get one. Yesterday, California received 8K tests for the entire state. Unfortunately the kits did not come complete and cannot be used immediately. Several of our hospitals have implemented drive through testing, but only the appropriate patients can have that after extensive screening. Hopefully, we can run the tests locally in our hospitals next week as planned.
Here is more info and what is happening in Italy. Are we next to lock down? The healthcare workers in the video are wearing proper PPE with PAPR's. This is what is needed to appropriately protect yourself.
https://nypost.com/2020/03/10/italian-doctor-at-heart-of-illness-shares-chilling-coronavirus-thoughts/
https://twitter.com/jasonvanschoor/status/1237142891077697538?s=21
Please click on "Show thread"
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Thanks guys,
Masks do offer some protection you also need to wear goggles to protect the eyes as the virus can enter your body that way. And as Proton said, the masks become contaminated and need to be thrown out. Even your clothes and skin will become contaminated. Also think about the transfer of money, using gas pumps etc. Everything becomes contaminated.
Yes, the overall mortality rate is below 1% but it is still higher in the high risk age groups and people with comorbid chronic illnesses.
Here is an interesting article on incubation period-
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200310164744.htm
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Thanks guys,
Masks do offer some protection you also need to wear goggles to protect the eyes as the virus can enter your body that way. And as Proton said, the masks become contaminated and need to be thrown out. Even your clothes and skin will become contaminated. Also think about the transfer of money, using gas pumps etc. Everything becomes contaminated.
Yes, the overall mortality rate is below 1% but it is still higher in the high risk age groups and people with comorbid chronic illnesses.
Here is an interesting article on incubation period-
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200310164744.htm
Yes to watching out for gas pumps. A couple weeks ago I started keeping disposable vinyl gloves in the car. I put them on before getting out to pump gas and throw the gloves in the waste bin before I get back in the car. I don't even let my credit card contact fingers that punched the pump buttons. After picking up a nasty case of pink eye twenty years ago I realized how careful you have to be about touching your face after leaving the house. I've tried to avoid touching my face unless I've washed my hands since that time. Seems to help keep me well because I've only had three colds in the last ten years.
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Most people touch their face about 25 times an hour . Or more.
I watched food workers touching their nose , coughing while making my hoagies today !!!
My face is itching like crazy the past week .im trying , but failing not to touch my face .
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I find it helpful to touch other people's faces when the urge strikes. Even poking them with a pencil eraser helps.
They just shut down all of the schools here in Pennsyltucky, all the govt. buildings in one county, hope they shut mine down.
Rumor has it Monday they send us packing for a bit.
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First the NBA season. Then March Madness. And now my daughters’ AAU basketball season has been postponed for at least 3 weeks. Most likely the entire season. Now it’s gone too far :)
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Is there a diarrhea pandemic going on that no one’s discussing alongside Coronavirus? If not, then why the hell are people buying up all the toilet paper? I can’t find any at any store around me. If something doesn’t change, after about 3 rolls I’ve got 2 options - hold it until I get to work, or steal it from somewhere like a mall bathroom.
F’ing animals!
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Is there a diarrhea pandemic going on that no one’s discussing alongside Coronavirus? If not, then why the hell are people buying up all the toilet paper? I can’t find any at any store around me. If something doesn’t change, after about 3 rolls I’ve got 2 options - hold it until I get to work, or steal it from somewhere like a mall bathroom.
F’ing animals!
Some of those contracting the virus experience gastrointestinal distress. No doubt that has provoked the toilet paper hoarding syndrome we see.
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I think it is more that people are planning for staying in their house for weeks or months if this gets worse. Diarrhea is not a huge part of COVID although it can occur. I went to Target 2 days ago and the canned goods were just about all gone. Soups, Tuna Fish, canned fruits and vegetables, Peanut Butter etc were just about all gone from the shelves. Same with a couple of supermarkets I went to. My daughter sent me a video of the local market she goes to in Denver and all the shelves were empty.
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I went to Target 2 days ago and the canned goods were just about all gone. Soups, Tuna Fish, canned fruits and vegetables, Peanut Butter etc were just about all gone from the shelves.
Seeing the same thing up here in small town Canada. On Friday the banks are typically quite busy, but not yesterday. The food court was unusually quiet at noon, it's as if people are self quarantining themselves as everything seems to be grinding to a halt here, except for the grocery stores. And there isn't even one known case of the virus within a 4 hour drive from here.
People are scared. Time to listen to some music.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=205872)
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The Governor closed all schools state wide for two weeks, so far.
I’m a substitute teacher , so no pay for me. I also drive for Uber, but the wife will not let me drive either. No income for me for the foreseeable future. I am also a wedding photographer, but I am thinking that most if not all of my May events will be cancelled.
I am pretty much self quarantined with my wife and teen. The teen is thriving , and barely leaving her room. Lol..
My wife does not want me going to the grocery store , or even doing a pick up at the grocery store where you order online and they bring your goods to your trunk . My wife has OCD tendencies, and she woke up in tears a couple of days ago.
I have been driving her to work. She hopes to be working from home starting next week .
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Time to listen to some music.
Isnt it always time - regardless
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People are scared. Time to listen to some music.
I had to laugh when I got this ad yesterday :lol:
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=205900)
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The Governor closed all schools state wide for two weeks, so far.
I’m a substitute teacher , so no pay for me. I also drive for Uber, but the wife will not let me drive either. No income for me for the foreseeable future. I am also a wedding photographer, but I am thinking that most if not all of my May events will be cancelled.
I am pretty much self quarantined with my wife and teen. The teen is thriving , and barely leaving her room. Lol..
My wife does not want me going to the grocery store , or even doing a pick up at the grocery store where you order online and they bring your goods to your trunk . My wife has OCD tendencies, and she woke up in tears a couple of days ago.
I have been driving her to work. She hopes to be working from home starting next week .
I wonder if our wives are related?
I'm not a doctor nor am I an infectious disease specialist. I do, however, have a great relationship with a Public Health professor who sends very interesting and time sensitive information that I would not know how to track down myself, and because my wife is Taiwanese (not Chinese!) we get a lot of information from Taiwanese (not Chinese!) friends. I began preparing for this weeks ago. I'll be 60 in a couple months; my lungs aren't 100%, but I am otherwise healthy. I had the option to flee to Taiwan a couple weeks ago, but stayed for certain private reasons. Fingers are crossed.
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I wonder if our wives are related?
I'm not a doctor nor am I an infectious disease specialist. I do, however, have a great relationship with a Public Health professor who sends very interesting and time sensitive information that I would know how to track down myself, and because my wife is Taiwanese (not Chinese!) we get a lot of information from Taiwanese (not Chinese!) friends. I began preparing for this weeks ago. I'll be 60 in a couple months; my lungs aren't 100%, but I am otherwise healthy. I had the option to flee to Taiwan a couple weeks ago, but stayed for certain private reasons. Fingers are crossed.
I've been prepping on-the-cheap for something like this for years. Now I'm sorry I was such a cheap b**&^%&#. And all that (tiny) 401K (from this last week) would have made a much better farewell stacked on shelves in our basement than flitting into thin air. :bawl:
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It will come back Mudslide .
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It will come back Mudslide .
And THEN it will line my shelves in the basement! :thumb:
Yeah, Friday looked good...accelerating late. But man, in my 70-something years, I've never seen volatility anything like this.
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I wonder if our wives are related?
I'm not a doctor nor am I an infectious disease specialist. I do, however, have a great relationship with a Public Health professor who sends very interesting and time sensitive information that I would not know how to track down myself, and because my wife is Taiwanese (not Chinese!) we get a lot of information from Taiwanese (not Chinese!) friends. I began preparing for this weeks ago. I'll be 60 in a couple months; my lungs aren't 100%, but I am otherwise healthy. I had the option to flee to Taiwan a couple weeks ago, but stayed for certain private reasons. Fingers are crossed.
I heard on the radio that Taiwan was the one country that did a fantastic job and that there's been minimal problems with Covid-19.
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Correct.
Taiwan has done a marvelous job of containing the virus.
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It is much easier for a smaller industrialized country to contain the virus than for a country like ours. We have too many selfish people here and pigs running the country and big business. We have people like Trump. Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh down playing the virus.
This is crossing over into politics, not appropriate. The aggressive early intervention steps taken will help mitigate the severity.
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This is crossing over into politics, not appropriate. Besides, it can be argued that the government response is better than responses from the previous administrations.
You decry the political component of the previous post, then throw in your own political comment on this one. Not helpful unless you think you have to have the last word. Perhaps both posters might recognize they've made a mistake and edit their posts. It's understandable that passions run high in these troubling times.
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Pointing out differences regarding response actions is not the same as personally disparaging people. Agree we should stay on topic, and not bring politics into this discussion.
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To direct things back towards science, let me ask the doctors on this forum their understanding of current research regarding Covid-19 transmissibility. I try to stay up on latest developments and read news from Asian as well as Western science and medical news sites. I am reading seemingly conflicting statements about the time period patients can spread the virus and how long airborne particles are able to infect others.
The Director of Public Health in Oregon says they think patients most actively spread the virus after symptoms are apparent. Asian researchers say testing shows active viral particles that can transmit are active in large numbers a few days before symptoms appear. Perhaps there is no conflict, it's just that sneezing blows particles a bigger radius of potential infection than someone who leaves a viral smear after scratching their eyes or picking their nose?
I also noticed that latest research says that an infected patient's immune system starts rapidly producing antibodies after infection and it is much less likely one can transmit the virus a week out from infection. The study said that while nasal swabs shows millions of viral particles are present a week after symptoms start, they aren't active and viable enough to present a major threat of contagion.
Second point that confuses me is how long the viruses in the air are contagion risk. Again, the above mentioned Public Health official says they think "heavy droplets" are the risk and they fall to the floor quickly. Another study I read said that active viruses are still hanging around in the air hours after a sneeze in a confined area. Again, I presume this is this just a matter of degree and as the "X" axis for time extends the "Y" risk axis declines after an infected person sneezes in a room?
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I came looking for intelligent conversation on a season being canceled and Instead found inane political blathering from some triggered folks. It gets so old, people that think their one side political comments have a place here. Those comments just confirm the inability of individuals to have an intelligent, neutral, conversation.
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okay, my non political iPad is going crazy... :oops:
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All: This is a non-politics board. Period.
Take it to a political board.
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It is much easier for a smaller industrialized country to contain the virus than for a country like ours.
True, especially when the masses are smart enough to recognize the gravity of the situation and act accordingly instead of playing down the seriousness of it all.
It seems as if pretty much every major sports league has suspended all games for the time being. The question is how long will this go on and how many of our loved ones will end up 6’ under? Self isolation without any sports to watch is going to be tough for some people. Thankfully we’ve got tunes! :x
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Self isolation without any sports to watch is going to be tough for some people. Thankfully we’ve got tunes! :x
agreed - i tape most sporting events and look forward to watching them after their over - so i can whip thru the commercials
i do this while listening to music usually. now that there's no sporting events - ill have to engage with my wife more - and her therapy
sessions with me will be longer and longer. But im glad i have music to listen to and books to read.
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Therapy Sessions with the wife?
UGH!!!
That's why they make motorcycle helmets and you can outrun any virus with just a twist of the throttle.
How long will these bans last?
No telling. I heard one fellow on the tube (that doctor who is making all of the rounds) say he's watching China pretty closely as it appears to be leveling off.
When they go back to mingling will the number of cases jump way back up or will it stay low?
If it jumps way back up we may be wondering where baseball season went.
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They closed down all non essential businesses here in Pittsburgh for 2 weeks . CDC banning all parties / events to halt for 8 weeks.
Shit us getting real !!!
My Dad who is 80 and has a very fucked up heart , went out to get Bagels this am. What the fuck is he thinking ?
Stay the fuck home everyone !!
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So how many of you have lined the walls of your listening room with rolls of TP? Fess up!
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Many years ago when I first left home I roomed with twin brothers. One day we ran out of toilet paper... that was a hard lesson and something I vowed would never happen again.
Ever since I have maintained a very abundant supply of toilet paper - enough to last several years. Yes, I’m addicted to toilet paper. :lol: Basically I’ve been buying it almost every time I see it on sale. This habit has been going on for years.
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I work for the state gubbermint in Harrassburg and we're closed.
It is good to be a non-essential employee.
Hope they didn't shut the barn door after the horse left.
We had one guy coughing his head off last week and my sinuses are going berserk but that could just be allergies.
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=205995)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=205996)
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=206010)
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This is crossing over into politics, not appropriate. The aggressive early intervention steps taken will help mitigate the severity.
Too little too late. The genie is already out of the bottle. Unless the virus mutates to a less virulent strain, it is here to stay. There should have been a travel ban and quarantine for anyone returning from out of the country at least 1 month ago. A travel ban does virtually nothing now that the virus is here unless we quarantine everyone for at least 2 months so the virus dies out. Then you would need a semi permanent travel ban
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Actually, the travel band was implemented as soon as the information became available. It was widely criticized for all the wrong reasons. Turns out it was wise in retrospect.
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So what if the
Genie is out of th bottle. All the sheet being done will slow the spread down. that besides stopping the virus it is killing what was left of the Retail sector, (except Grocery) plus restaurants, bowling alleys etc..
No need to worry though. Orange Face will fix it. :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono:
:roll:
:lol:
:?
:lol:
:thumb:
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Actually, the travel band was implemented as soon as the information became available. It was widely criticized for all the wrong reasons. Turns out it was wise in retrospect.
The travel ban should have been no travel in or out of the country period, not just certain countries. We had info from the China outbreak way before the travel ban was instituted. The travel ban will have no effect unless we quarantine everyone. You are kidding yourself and not realizing how contagious and virulent this virus is.
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Too little too late. The genie is already out of the bottle. Unless the virus mutates to a less virulent strain, it is here to stay. There should have been a travel ban and quarantine for anyone returning from out of the country at least 1 month ago. A travel ban does virtually nothing now that the virus is here unless we quarantine everyone for at least 2 months so the virus dies out. Then you would need a semi permanent travel ban
https://nypost.com/2020/03/13/coronavirus-case-from-november-could-be-patient-zero/
I am 100% in agreement with you I.Greyhound Fan.
This was something spreading for a while in China. The docs there treated patients with the disease for over a month while it spread. I'm sure a pattern of sick patients needing intubation, admission to the ICU's, etc. arose. How much of this known information was suppressed by the communist Chinese government? The coronavirus was finally reported to national health authorities late December. The first case in the US was in Washington State where a 35-yr old man returned from Wuhan after visiting family. He tested positive on January 20th. IT WAS HERE THEN! The major west coast airport hubs have had people traveling through them for months. It is now everywhere. Therefore a travel ban two months later is useless.
Leaders need to lead. They need to take direction from experts in the field. This virus will not disappear like a "miracle," and it will not just "flow through." It is NOT "UNDER CONTROL." They need to understand the science, listen to the experts and not mis / disinform the people. Appropriate planning and measures need to be taken to prepare and not cause fear. Appropriate resources need to be provided for adequate testing, prevention and protection. Has this been done?
Photon, you ask excellent questions. My understanding and what I read is the same as you. However I do have the luxury of our poor ID docs, 4 of them, who have to field questions and provide advice to us in a couple of hospitals and numerous clinics in my service area. Please understand that when one is infected that there is an incubation period. Then you are most contagious when you have the symptoms and can spread them. With healthy immune systems, the viral load will decrease with antibodies attacking the virus and your symptoms will improve. After a week out, you may feel better, but there is still a viral load. As we have seen, this coronavirus is community spread. You may not have symptoms, but you may still spread it. One may not have the cough, sneeze, runny nose or watery eyes, but it could be there. As long as you have the virus in you, you can spread it.
As I go back to the original post, how many other sports have tested their players? I am thankful that Rudy and Donovan are well. I pray for the third in Detroit to be well soon. I praise Adam Silver for what he did. This will be his shining moment and what he will be remembered for. Look at what has happened in just days.
Now as I get ready for a 11-hour shift, I pray that I will be well. I will be wearing my N95 mask all shift and proper PPE when needed. Be safe all and please stay home. Please do not come to the filthiest place of all in the ER unless you really need to. Please remember that a patient with COVID19 could be sitting next to you and that you are at higher risk of getting it there.
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Well said KMMD. Take care of yourself. 2 EM docs are in the ICU with the virus, one in his 40's, the other in his 60's. I am thinking about taking a year sabbatical. I love helping people but not at the cost of my life or my family's if I bring it home. People need to stay out of the clinic's, Urgent Cares and Emergency Departments if they have a cough or cold symptoms as there is nothing that we can do for them. They should be seen if they are short of breath though. Even if they think that they have a sinus infection they should stay away. 95% of sinusitis is viral and gets better in 3-4 weeks without antibiotics. And almost all bronchitis is viral which typically lasts 4-8 weeks.
Back to sports. I think that there will be no professional sports for at least a year and that includes the upcoming NFL and College football seasons.
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Thank you I.Greyhound.fan. Please be well to you, your family and team of professionals.
I'm watching the joke of a press conference now. I posted before it.
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Our annual family reunion in May has been rescheduled for May 2021. My mother is our chief concern, and her interacting with the petrie dishes we call her great grandchildren. But several of us are in the high risk group as well. We'll miss seeing each other, but we'd rather increase the chances of seeing each other next year.
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Wow look at the stock market reaction!
Be well Letitroll and family. BE WELL TO ALL! Be smart, self quarantine if needed. Avoid catching it from someone else! A little of bit of sacrifice now will go a long way.
Gee, I'm kinda glad I didn't go into ID. I loved it when I rotated in it for 4 weeks as a med student. I loved writing such precise and detailed notes and knowing more than the med student actually on the medical service. LOL
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More bad news. I just read that some patients in Japan became re-infected with the virus.
KMMD, it was in an article on Medscape with an interview with a French ID doc.
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We will have to see how this progresses. No doubt it's very serious. The problem is no one knows all the ins and outs of this.
Keep in mind the amount of people that succumb to influenza each year. There was a report to today that 15,000 people have died in the US from the flu so far this year.
I maintain that IF there was more honesty and cooperation between governments when this first occurred, the impact would have been less.
Given where things stand, we collectively will need to work together and endure the consequences for a period of time before this turns around.
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=205995)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=205996)
Best post ever.
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We will have to see how this progresses. No doubt it's very serious. The problem is no one knows all the ins and outs of this.
Keep in mind the amount of people that succumb to influenza each year. There was a report to today that 15,000 people have died in the US from the flu so far this year.
I maintain that IF there was more honesty and cooperation between governments when this first occurred, the impact would have been less.
Given where things stand, we collectively will need to work together and endure the consequences for a period of time before this turns around.
The deaths from influenza in this country are much lower than last year. Last year over 60,000 people died, mostly older people. This year more children have died than in recent years. There will be more deaths from COVID19 than influenza because it will kill more people 70 and older than influenza. But many people 50 and older have comorbid risk factors like heart disease, Hypertension, COPD, Asthma, Kidney disease, Stroke and any number of autoimmune diseases, neuromuscular diseases that will place them at higher risk of dying. Over 340 people died over night in Italy last night and over 150 today and still counting.
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Professor Chi is a friend of my wife's and mine. He's the head of OSU's Public Health Department. Until recently, I did not understand just how important Public Health is. This presentation was recorded March 11th, but was posted to YouTube this morning. I hope you find it useful.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3XtVeSrq1g&fbclid=IwAR0ayNrpSYC-WilSUZG5L8kDcxcQ9J2Fy9uu1gZA4u65wmzUkpnGo8qlTqE
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A FB friend took the last plane out of Peru. They have closed all of their borders.
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So I've been fired from my job, as babysitter to my grandson. My DiL was sent home from her job yesterday, and previously my son had been strongly urged to work from home in his banking position. All not essential businesses have been closed or curtailed in Pennsyltucky. As of yesterday McDonald's was open for takeout only, you could buy a beer at a bar, but you had to take it with you, no drinking inside. Talking this morning we were trying to decide on a metric as to what day of the pandemic we are in, and we decided it started when the bars closed. Still no toilet paper.
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Our Province (Ontario Canada) is under a state of emergency.
All public meeting places closed except for take out food.
My wife working from home.
Schools cancelled till at least April, maybe for the year.
Tunes working well. I try to limit my news, and get in front of my music.
Hope all are keeping well. Interesting times.
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With all the sporting events closing, couples will have to resort to bedroom sports. Are we going to see a bid baby boom in about nine months? :popcorn:
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=206038)
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=206038)
I thought it was Winnie the Poo.
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With all the sporting events closing, couples will have to resort to bedroom sports. Are we going to see a bid baby boom in about nine months? :popcorn:
Or even more divorces if they find out that they can't get along real well when living in close proximity.
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As most of us know, 4 Brooklyn Nets players tested positive yesterday including KD. Lakers players will be tested today, and I would not be surprised if several are positive. I hope and pray that they are not.
Here are a few more links to provide more information.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/16/who-considers-airborne-precautions-for-medical-staff-after-study-shows-coronavirus-can-survive-in-air.html
https://www.emrap.org/corependium/chapter/rec906m1mD6SRH9np/Novel-Coronavirus-2019-COVID-19?MainSearch=%22Novel+Coronavirus+2019+(COVID-19)%22&SearchType=%22text%22
What stands out to me is this:
Incubation period
The incubation period ranges from 1 to 14 days and is typically 4 to 5 days.※
Incubation periods of up to 24 days have been documented in case reports.※
PITFALLS
Patients may be infectious for 5-13 days after symptoms resolve.※
Get ready for a long lock down.
Also:
Transmission
SARS-CoV-2 appears to be transmitted through respiratory droplets; however, the virus is present in blood, stool, and urine.※
The CDC suggests social isolation of at least 6 feet to reduce spread.※
Fomite spread also appears to be likely because the virus can live for an indeterminate amount of time on surfaces and be transmitted to patients by touch and transfer to mucus membranes.※
Transmission via asymptomatic carriers has also been described.※
Social distancing refers to the practice of limiting mass gatherings and events, as well as small group congregations. It also involves maintaining distance (approximately 6 feet or 2 meters) from other single individuals when possible.※ It is a containment technique for “flattening the curve” of the spread of infection.
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I haven't been so proud of our citizens as I was at Dollar General this morning. I didn't hoard toilet paper because I assumed it would be a very short lived problem. Needless to say I was wrong. DG has instituted senior hour for the first hour of business 8-9am reserved for elder Americans to shop with less pressure and four of us were waiting at the door and talked a bit. One gentleman was shopping for cancer patients in his neighborhood. The nice lady opened the doors and said two packages only, which we all knew anyway. We all went to the back of the store and I handed out the packages to everyone, making sure the cancer shopper got two of the larger size bundles while the rest of us took one large and one small. We all arrived at the register at the same time and queued up in the order we entered the store, the young lady was afraid it might be a feeding frenzy and was amazed at our cooperation. It was all a small thing, but illustrated what Americans are all about. We pitch together to help each other in times of crisis, we're brave, courageous, giving, selfless. When we put our boats in flooded streets, run into burning buildings, or hand out TP at Dollar General, nobody asks what your race is or who you voted for, we're Americans.
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Thanks for sharing Letitroll. That is beautiful and definitely shows that we are all Americans at our core. We are all in this together and can all work together to get through this. United we stand!
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I Kmmd, I suspected all along that you could be contagious for a 2-4 weeks after resolution of COVID. With influenza, you are contagious for up to 2 weeks after the initial first week of the illness. With Hand-Foot and Mouth disease, you shed the virus in your stool for 6-8 weeks. With mononucleosis, you are contagious for at least 3 months and possibly for over a year as well as the 30-60 day incubation period.
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If you can , I think it is much much better to order your food online , and have it delivered or pick it up in your car . We also took steps to take all the foods out of the boxes, and sanitizing all food packages.
We went to the supermarket yesterday. It will be our last trip going inside a store. It’s impossible to keep safe distances , a guy in front of us wiped his nose 20 times .
We did self check out as well , as the check out guy is touching thousands of items .
Fuck that !!! We WILL order everything online . Have one guy load the shit in our car , and clean everything when we get home .
My wife is slightly OCD , this is right in her wheel house .
Stay safe
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Our hospital system ran out of head covers and still want us to see potential virus patients. I said FK that and ordered 1000 head covers. It took me over an hour to find a company that had them in stock. They also ran out of shoe covers and want us to buy a pair of shoes for work, clean them with disinfectant wipes and wear another pair home.
I smell a huge lawsuit if someone dies from not being provided proper protection.
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Wow, this is unbelievable. I feel for all the health care providers ill equipped working long hours on the frontline of this horrible situation. Be extra nice to these people and express your gratitude, without their hard work and dedication things would be far worse.
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Wow, this is unbelievable. I feel for all the health care providers ill equipped working long hours on the frontline of this horrible situation. Be extra nice to these people and express your gratitude, without their hard work and dedication things would be far worse.
Thank you Wind Chaser.
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Wow, this is unbelievable. I feel for all the health care providers ill equipped working long hours on the frontline of this horrible situation. Be extra nice to these people and express your gratitude, without their hard work and dedication things would be far worse.
Couldn't agree more. Also grateful for everyone who greases the wheels of that our modern world runs on; truck drivers, cashiers, firemen, police officers, EMT personnel, etc. BTW, be extra thankful for your dentists, they arguably have the greatest risk of contracting Covid-19 of any profession.
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Conversation with a friend.
Friend - OMG, went to City Market and there was no toilet paper!
Did you go to the other stores in town?
No.
*rolls eyes*
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I just walked to the end of my street and looked 10 miles north and the steam is poring out of the 2 pulp mills. Both produce Toilet paper and the Georgia Pacific plant will increase its TP out put. ( seems like a place I should make a pun).
Alan
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Good luck to us all, especially those of you on the front lines. One of my best friend is an EMT and his wife works at the hospital. It's ironic; he's actually kind of a doomsday prepper, has years of food, an independant water supply, guns, ammo, and lives 25 miles from civilization up a mountainside that's barely accessible to wheeled traffic that's not a jacked up 4WD. Yet for all that he's probably in a worse spot than I am due to his work.
I'm the Exec Chef for a nonprofit. We've cancelled our programs at least through May and will all be working from home. I will be creating content for our clients and their families that will provide support to them. Stuff like menu planning, how to cook with limited resources and canned food, etc. Some is busy work but my employer has committed to keeping everyone on staff at full pay. Luckily we don't get revenue from those we support (we serve special operations military folks and their families, especially Gold Star families). Financially I should be fine as our funding is allocated a few years in advance. But I'm going stir crazy already and it's only beginning!
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I braved the outside world twice today:
a motorcycle ride during my lunch break and I see that car drivers are still out there poking along on the back roads and then a ride after work to brave the grocery store for tortoise food.
Lots of produce available but no chicken for making soup.
Frank Perdue, where are you?
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Thanks to all for your well wishes.
Where I work, we have to reuse safety glasses, goggles and face masks. We clean them after a patient encounter in the “tent.” My colleague just sent us an email to ask others on social media for donations. As we are in the Bay Area, many of us have earthquake kits. She was able to secure a donation from her neighbor for N95 masks.
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I braved the outside world twice today:
People really should be outside exercising in the fresh air - the best thing for the prevention of covid-19!
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People really should be outside exercising in the fresh air - the best thing for the prevention of covid-19!
During the Spanish Flu epidemic in 1918 they didn't have antibiotics or Tamiflu, so instituted "fresh air therapy" where patients were put in tents, given large doses of sunshine, wards opened all the windows for cross ventilation, etc. Reports of death rates going from 40% to 4% were common. All public park fees have been waved in PA.
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https://www.yahoo.com/news/study-says-high-temperature-high-213034915.html
A bit of bright news on the horizon?
Hope so, who the heck wants to live like Howard Hughes?
These Kleenex Boxes are really screwing up my super long toe nails.
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https://www.yahoo.com/news/study-says-high-temperature-high-213034915.html
A bit of bright news on the horizon?
Hope so, who the heck wants to live like Howard Hughes?
These Kleenex Boxes are really screwing up my super long toe nails.
Record high of 91 here yesterday. Doesn't seem to be slowing anything down, but warm sunshine is certainly nice :)
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OMG Tom, what’s yer 20?
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I feel much better now. The press conference just informed me to reuse my masks or use a scarf or bandana to protect myself. :roll: Should I use and would I be safe using the cashmere scarves I bought in Beijing? I am an American Born Chinese though.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/ppe-strategy/face-masks.html
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OMG Tom, what’s yer 20?
Southwest Florida
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I feel much better now. The press conference just informed me to reuse my masks or use a scarf or bandana to protect myself. :roll: Should I use and would I be safe using the cashmere scarves I bought in Beijing? I am an American Born Chinese though.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/ppe-strategy/face-masks.html
There is a woman here making and selling masks made of cotton and pellon fabrics for $10 sort of as a community service. Washable, re-usable?
https://www.nbc-2.com/story/41912127/lee-county-woman-makes-reusable-face-masks-to-try-and-help-people-during-pandemic (https://www.nbc-2.com/story/41912127/lee-county-woman-makes-reusable-face-masks-to-try-and-help-people-during-pandemic)
I feel for all the docs and what you are doing, hopefully more PPE finally starts flowing very soon (our daughter is a cancer doc in Houston).
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I feel much better now. The press conference just informed me to reuse my masks or use a scarf or bandana to protect myself. :roll: Should I use and would I be safe using the cashmere scarves I bought in Beijing? I am an American Born Chinese though.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/ppe-strategy/face-masks.html
I say the following with tongue only slightly in cheek. If our government is considering co-opting the forces of private industry to direct manufacturing capabilities towards the immediate needs of the medical community's shortage of PPE, ventilators, etc., we should also marshal the forces of tailors and seamstresses to immediately engage in the manufacture of this resourceful Taiwanese doctor's DIY multi-layer cloth face mask:
https://mustsharenews.com/cloth-face-mask/
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Thank you Tom.
I'm sure many of you have seen the creativeness of those in Wuhan...https://www.thesundaily.my/style-life/all-the-buzz/video-wuhan-man-wears-a-sanitary-pad-as-a-facemask-AK1936233
I'm thinking of fabricating something using my Filtrete furnace filters.
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I say the following with tongue only slightly in cheek...
That seems a little drastic but also quite appropriate given the current reality. This is no time for half measures. Unlike China, it’s too late for containment here; therefore everything everyone does matters...
Remember to wash your hands often, clean surfaces often, avoid all unnecessary contact with others and keep at least 6’ away from the other person if you really have to meet. :rules:
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https://www.yahoo.com/news/study-says-high-temperature-high-213034915.html
A bit of bright news on the horizon?
Hope so, who the heck wants to live like Howard Hughes?
These Kleenex Boxes are really screwing up my super long toe nails.
We all hope that warming weather does slow transmission. This study reinforcing the theory that warmer weather slows down viral transmission was just released.
https://www.accuweather.com/en/health-wellness/new-study-says-high-temperature-and-high-relative-humidity-significantly-reduce-spread-of-covid-19/703418
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My wife says that I'm full of covfefe about the weather as the Dominican Republic is hot and humid and it's experiencing the outbreaks.
I'm doing what little I can: work at home, ride motorcycles in my free time and don't touch my face unless I've washed my hands.
Will that be enough?
Who knows.
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If you think that young adults are not at risk:
FROM MMWR
A review of more than 4,000 U.S. patients who were diagnosed with novel coronavirus infection (COVID-19) shows an unexpected 20% of those hospitalized, and 20% of those who died of the infection, were aged 20-44 years.
The expectation has been that older people are most vulnerable to COVID-19 infection, but this study indicates that, at least in the United States, a significant number of younger patients can land in the hospital and can die of the disease.
To assess rates of hospitalization, admission to an ICU, and death among patients with COVID-19 by age group, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention analyzed 4,226 COVID-19 cases in the United States that were reported between Feb. 12 and March 16.
Overall, older patients in this group were the most likely to be hospitalized, to be admitted to ICU, and to die of COVID-19. A total of 31% of the cases, 45% of hospitalizations, 53% of ICU admissions, and 80% of deaths occurred in patients aged 65 years and older.
"Similar to reports from other countries, this finding suggests that the risk for serious disease and death from COVID-19 is higher in older age groups," said the investigators. "In contrast, persons aged [19 years and younger] appear to have milder COVID-19 illness, with almost no hospitalizations or deaths reported to date in the United States in this age group."
But compared with the under-19 group, patients aged 20-40 years appeared to be at much higher risk of hospitalization, ICU admission, and death, according to the data published March 18 in Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report.
The researchers excluded from their analysis patients who repatriated to the United States from Wuhan, China, and from Japan, including patients repatriated from cruise ships. Data on serious underlying health conditions were not available, and many cases were missing key data, they noted.
Among 508 patients known to have been hospitalized, 9% were aged 85 years or older, 26% were aged 65-84 years, 17% were aged 55-64 years, 18% were 45-54 years, and 20% were aged 20-44 years.
Among 121 patients admitted to an ICU, 7% were aged 85 years or older, 46% were aged 65-84 years, 36% were aged 45-64 years, and 12% were aged 20-44 years. Between 11% and 31% of patients with COVID-19 aged 75-84 years were admitted to an ICU.
Of 44 deaths, more than a third occurred among adults aged 85 years and older, and 46% occurred among adults aged 65-84 years, and 20% occurred among adults aged 20-64 years.
More follow-up time is needed to determine outcomes among active cases, the researchers said. These results also might overestimate the prevalence of severe disease because the initial approach to testing for COVID-19 focused on people with more severe disease.
"These preliminary data also demonstrate that severe illness leading to hospitalization, including ICU admission and death, can occur in adults of any age with COVID-19," according to the CDC.
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Marcus Smart, 3 Sixers and two Lakers. NBA count up to 9.
And to reinforce I.Greyhound Fan’s post: https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-03-19/glendora-man-dies-coronavirus-disney-world
Edit:
Oops I just read on SFGate that there is someone on the Nuggets that tested positive as well. Somehow there are 14 testing positive.
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My wife says that I'm full of covfefe about the weather as the Dominican Republic is hot and humid and it's experiencing the outbreaks.
I'm doing what little I can: work at home, ride motorcycles in my free time and don't touch my face unless I've washed my hands.
Will that be enough?
Who knows.
Well, the problem with all these theories is that we don't have enough time and data to make definitive judgements. That said, the presence of a disease is a community doesn't mean that weather, hand washing, social distancing, etc. isn't slowing the spread of the disease. It might be worse in the Dominican Republic if the weather was cold and dry.
This is similar to the issue of proving the worth of preventative medicine and public health. If a public health department does its job well, nothing happens. Then politicians and the public says "why are we paying for all these health measures, we don't have any disease issues, we're all healthy." So the next time budget strains occur, the first thing we want to cut are public health budgets (which we have been doing at local and Federal levels for decades under both Democratic and Republican administrations.) Now look where we are as a result. In contrast, the reason South Korea was able to ramp up their testing program so rapidly is because they learned lessons from earlier disease outbreaks like SARS and MERS and invested in nationwide testing labs and have maintained their capacity to ramp up as needed.
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Not sure how this will affect us right away but just FYI -
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/xgqkyw/copper-destroys-viruses-and-bacteria-why-isnt-it-everywhere?utm_source=pocket-newtab
Maybe you can rub your hands on some bare speaker wire? ;)
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Who here thinks that the upcoming NFL and College football seasons will be cancelled?
I suspect that they will be cancelled unless the virus suddenly disappears. At the very least, games will be played with no fans in the stands and it will be TV only. But I don't see the pro players wanting to play and put themselves or their families at risk even if it means losing millions of dollars.
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I really appreciate the various posters in this thread who have been providing critical information and informative perspective - all the while keeping your heads (and mine!) cool.
I have invested in the stock markets for nearly four decades now. One particular forum that I have belonged to since its inception is mostly populated by members in their 60s to 80s. I've known many of them for 25+ years. Back then, they used to be curious to learn; used to be voracious researchers, and used to be open to new ideas. Now, most of them rely heavily on talking heads on various news channels for their health news. I have posted CDC reports, Public Health officials' reports, and other scientific papers discussing this virus. All but 5 to 10 of the members either ignore me (the majority) or accuse me of conspiring to confuse them with fake facts. They won't read/believe the CDC reports.
I find this behavior worrisome at best.
Keep posting, please.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Just in case you're wondering how I'm holding up in this exciting stock market action, I sold nearly everything about 4 weeks ago, so I entered the crash with approximately 92% cash. I'm now down to about 50% cash. 8)
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I really appreciate the various posters in this thread who have been providing critical information and informative perspective - all the while keeping your heads (and mine!) cool.
I have invested in the stock markets for nearly four decades now. One particular forum that I have belonged to since its inception is mostly populated by members in their 60s to 80s. I've known many of them for 25+ years. Back then, they used to be curious to learn; used to be voracious researchers, and used to be open to new ideas. Now, most of them rely heavily on talking heads on various news channels for their health news. I have posted CDC reports, Public Health officials' reports, and other scientific papers discussing this virus. All but 5 to 10 of the members either ignore me (the majority) or accuse me of conspiring to confuse them with fake facts. They won't read/believe the CDC reports.
I find this behavior worrisome at best.
Keep posting, please.
That does not surprise me. Just look at the anti-vaccination people. They believe the British doctor who falsely published data on the MMR vaccine stating it was causing autism and other problems because he wanted to come out with his own vaccine and make hundreds of millions of dollars. He has been discredited and he can no longer practice medicine. But millions of people still believe him.
It will certainly be interesting to see what the anti-vaxers do if and when a good vaccine becomes available for COVD-19.
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I censored myself. My post was OT.
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But I don't see the pro players wanting to play and put themselves or their families at risk even if it means losing millions of dollars.
Uh, I do. (Of course, not all of them.)
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Just look at the anti-vaccination people.
It will certainly be interesting to see what the anti-vaxers do if and when a good vaccine becomes available...
The problem is freedom of speech applies to everyone including stupid people who think they are smart. Alternative facts have usurped legitimate facts in the minds of many and that's the new norm. It's no wonder we're in the situation we're in now. I generally like to be optimistic but it's become increasingly challenging, especially in recent years.
The stress on our health care workers and the body count will continue to get much worse because of the thirst and adherence to misinformation presented the early days of this outbreak.
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That and those nitwit Spring Breakers who are set to disperse hither and yon.
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(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=206182)
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This might be over paranoid, but the word going out now is you and get the virus from gas pumps and paper money. Iran has told their people not to use cash.
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This might be over paranoid, but the word going out now is you and get the virus from gas pumps and paper money. Iran has told their people not to use cash.
It is not over paranoid at all. All it takes is one cough or sneeze onto one's hand and then for them to touch something. I carry gloves, disinfectant wipes and hand gel / sanitizer in my cars at all times.
"But how long can the new coronavirus linger on surfaces, anyway? The short answer is, we don't know. A new analysis found that the virus can remain viable in the air for up to 3 hours, on copper for up to 4 hours, on cardboard up to 24 hours and on plastic and stainless steel up to 72 hours. This study was originally published in the preprint database medRxiv on March 11, and now a revised version was published March 17 in The New England Journal of Medicine."
https://www.livescience.com/how-long-coronavirus-last-surfaces.html
https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJMc2004973
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Another good article: https://www.businessinsider.com/how-long-can-coronavirus-live-on-surfaces-how-to-disinfect-2020-3
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Another good article: https://www.businessinsider.com/how-long-can-coronavirus-live-on-surfaces-how-to-disinfect-2020-3
That means credit card machines with push buttons will not be safe either.
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That means credit card machines with push buttons will not be safe either.
Nothing that you touch that other people have touched or coughed/sneezed around is safe. Even money is not safe. about 15 years ago either 20-20 or 60 minutes looked at how quickly a virus or contagion could spread. So they applied an invisible dye to someone's hand who was holding a meeting in a small conference room. There were 10-20 people in the meeting and at the end of 1 hour, everyone had the dye all over them.
By the way, there are some corona viruses that affect animals that remain viable on surfaces for 3-4 weeks.
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That means credit card machines with push buttons will not be safe either.
Last week the local Walmart had closed off their self serve check outs, I noticed others businesses had done the same or something similar.
Had an emergency visit to the vet last week, when I arrived there was a bottle of hand sanitizer sitting on a stool outside. The dollar store had their outside doors open wide ajar so no one would have to touch them. It’s amazing how quickly this has unfolded.
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Last week the local Walmart had closed off their self serve check outs, I noticed others businesses had done the same or something similar.
Had an emergency visit to the vet last week, when I arrived there was a bottle of hand sanitizer sitting on a stool outside. The dollar store had their outside doors open wide ajar so no one would have to touch them. It’s amazing how quickly this has unfolded.
My Vet clinic will greet you at your car and take or bring your pet to and from the clinic. No people allowed in the clinic. Consultation is done over the phone.
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Yep, that's better / more cautious approach. OTOH I'm not sure it work so well with my dog.
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The IOC has postponed the 2020 Olympics till 2021, I guess they’re not as optimistic as some Americans are about how long this C-19 virus is going to be around.
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the good news is if the President gets the country open for business by Easter we could have basketball games in 3 weeks. No doubt some challenges like expanding rosters so players don't have to play with the virus and moving the world champion Raptors to Syracuse or maybe Springfield Mass for balance of season (Canada won't after all follow the bold US lead). But think of the marketing opportunities - a free collectable mask in team colors and with logo to first 5000 on re-opening night (with more for sale in team shop).
I can only watch American Idol for so long - lets get our spectator sports back. Cv-19 has been an off-season diversion but time to make way for football season, which is pretty much upon us!
:popcorn:
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I guess if the players maintain a 6' distance between each other it will be okay.
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the good news is if the President gets the country open for business by Easter we could have basketball games in 3 weeks.
I don't see how that's possible. As of today (early morning, March 25th) we (the US) have almost 55,000 cases of Covid-19:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/
We're currently in third "place" globally and positioned to blow by both Italy and China at the rate we are going:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=206356)
That's from:
https://www.ft.com/coronavirus-latest
And there's this:
The White House warning came as Governor Cuomo offered a grim forecast for the outbreak in New York, saying that it would flood the state’s strained hospitals with as many as 140,000 stricken patients in the next few weeks.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/24/nyregion/coronavirus-new-york-apex-andrew-cuomo.html
If that turns out to be true, NYC will be overwhelmed with patients at about the time we're supposed to be reopening everything. That doesn't seem like a good idea.
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https://www.cnn.com/videos/health/2020/03/25/craig-spencer-ny-hospital-trump-magical-thinking-sot-ac-vpx.cnn
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/24/bill-gates-us-missed-its-chance-to-avoid-coronavirus-shutdown.html
Thanks for posting the graph ctviggen. One word comes to mind...epicenter.
Please, please stay home and stay safe. Let us pray for Karl Anthony Towns’ mother.
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Looking at the curves posted here, that I'd already seen from several outlets so I'm confident in their accuracy, indicate cancelling social distancing in a few weeks is optimistic at best, and possibly negligent at worst. And I doubt very much most Americans will resume going to sporting events, restaurants, movies theaters, the workplace, until medical professionals give the all clear anyway. I'm tired of watching the "Best Games of 2019" on the NFL channel as well, but I'd also like to live a little longer than April.
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I’m sure the Easter reopening is a target date and not set in stone. The actual condition of this pandemic will determine public policy moving forward. As we all know predictions are an educated guess at best...daily statistics will determine the path.
Stay safe my friends!
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I believe I am correct in saying that State mandates would Trump , or take precedence over any national directives.
Now will many governors and mayors be swayed to change their policies? I hope not !!
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It’s a tough spot for any and all leaders.
I just hope all the front line healthcare workers get what they need during this.
Be well my friends.
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I’m sure the Easter reopening is a target date and not set in stone. The actual condition of this pandemic will determine public policy moving forward. As we all know predictions are an educated guess at best...daily statistics will determine the path.
A 5 second glance at the chart will show that an Easter target date is not set in stone - it's set in FOO-FOO DUST!!! Just one listen to a hospital worker interview in a big city shows it's not going to get better in 2 weeks.
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Pittsburgh sanitation workers have refused to pick up trash without PPE and hazard pay. They're attitude was expressed in an article as what, you gonna take the trash to the landfill yourself? So everyone is unsure if it's a reasonable request for protection, or a cash grab when they have everyone over a barrel. I haven't formed any opinion either way until we get more info.
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I say the following with tongue only slightly in cheek. If our government is considering co-opting the forces of private industry to direct manufacturing capabilities towards the immediate needs of the medical community's shortage of PPE, ventilators, etc., we should also marshal the forces of tailors and seamstresses to immediately engage in the manufacture of this resourceful Taiwanese doctor's DIY multi-layer cloth face mask:
https://mustsharenews.com/cloth-face-mask/
Well, I posted this a few days. Now, it's become a reality ( I'm proud to read of the civic minded folks who are pitching in on this effort.)
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/25/business/coronavirus-masks-sewers.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage
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I’m proud to say my Taiwanese wife (US citizen) began producing cloth face mask covers two days ago. She will donate them to a hospital once a few more masks are ready.
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4/12/2020 is coming up pretty quick.
I'll still be working from home and washing my hands like I'm Howard Hughes.
I'm real curious to see if it comes roaring back in countries that were serious about the quarantine or does it lie dormant until next Winter?
Here in Pennsyltucky the number of cases is shooting way up as more people are getting tested.
My neck of the woods is pretty darned quiet with everyone staying in as much as possible.
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Real quiet in the Burgh !!
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=206397)
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https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/new-york-city-coronavirus-healthcare-workers-trump-easter-183638991.html
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This is a very interesting article !! The graphs can be adjusted by the reader to show different possible Outcomes—
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/03/25/opinion/coronavirus-trump-reopen-america.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage
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Wow, that graph is incredibly illustrative. I played with the settings to see what would happen. A massive difference of when and how high the peak will be with the length of time for mitigation efforts. 15 days is a disaster, 60 days works pretty well, but moved the peak to June 27. And RO was dramatic, in other words how many people will an infected person transmit the virus to. When I make a guess at where we are now with the other parameters including 60 days of mitigation efforts and the RO is 2 we have 2,800 deaths. When the RO is moved to 3 there are nearly a million deaths. The real world estimates are between 2 and 5, because we don't have enough testing to know what that number is.
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And this is part of the reason that we will not be able to control the spread of the virus-
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/louisiana-pastor-defies-coronavirus-order-draws-over-1-000-people-n1168501
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/missouri-man-arrested-licking-items-walmart-mock-coronavirus-fears-n1168901
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Half a million/ 500K recorded worldwide cases!
I thought the US would be the worldwide leader late next week. Looks like it will happen in the next few days!
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And this is part of the reason that we will not be able to control the spread of the virus-
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/louisiana-pastor-defies-coronavirus-order-draws-over-1-000-people-n1168501
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/missouri-man-arrested-licking-items-walmart-mock-coronavirus-fears-n1168901
:duh:
I can't post what's on my mind. I think I'll just go outside and cry for a while.
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https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
The US is now #1 in total cases and still climbing. Test and you will find.
Easter may not be so “beautiful,” but at least we will ease off in social distancing. :duh:
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All of this should’ve been done months ago. When the entire US has only tested 5k people AS OTHERS TEST 5-10K PER DAY, well you don’t find what you don’t look for. Get ready for the real numbers. Stay safe all.
My first post exactly two weeks ago.
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I just wrote what I thought worth sharing here...
EVERYONE is going to (eventually) GET THIS DISEASE. The whole point of all this fruhaha is so we ALL DO NOT GET IT AT THE SAME TIME.
If you think the quarantine is magically going to STOP THE VIRUS you are really delusional. All it can do (and is designed to do) is slow down the rate of infection. Corona is here to stay FOREVER. So you might not get it today, nor next week maybe even not next month. But eventually we ALL are goona' have it. Some not bad. some bad. some dead. There IS not stopping it.
Now maybe they will create a vaccine What that means is you will get it, but your body will be better able to fight it off, due to antibodies your body made due to the vaccine.
But you WILL still be infected.
So enjoy...
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I just wrote what I thought worth sharing here...
EVERYONE is going to (eventually) GET THIS DISEASE. The whole point of all this fruhaha is so we ALL DO NOT GET IT AT THE SAME TIME.
If you think the quarantine is magically going to STOP THE VIRUS you are really delusional. All it can do (and is designed to do) is slow down the rate of infection. Corona is here to stay FOREVER. So you might not get it today, nor next week maybe even not next month. But eventually we ALL are goona' have it. Some not bad. some bad. some dead. There IS not stopping it.
Now maybe they will create a vaccine What that means is you will get it, but your body will be better able to fight it off, due to antibodies your body made due to the vaccine.
But you WILL still be infected.
So enjoy...
And it’ll change and get a new name. Remember SARS? Coronavirus.
Pretty sure Bubonic Plague is actually still around too. I think there’s a handful of cases and deaths from it every year worldwide.
Edit: Yup. Still around...
https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/Health/plague-exists-now-us/story%3fid=55860883
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Hmmm. It is interesting if people think that this will magically disappear by social distancing or stay at home. Yes it is to help to slow the spread and prevent those who do not have it to get it. The idea is to flatten the curve and spread the timing of those getting sick while decreasing risk to those who are most vulnerable to become severely ill. If they do become ill, then there is increased time that this happens. This will allow hospitals the time to acquire appropriate equipment and personnel and not overload them with severely sick people at the same time. Patient care is significantly compromised, and the mortality rate is unnecessarily increased in overcrowded hospitals and emergency departments. Overcrowding poses great risk to healthcare workers.
Relaxing social distancing and stay at home mandates too early will result in exposing those who do not have the disease to the asymptomatic or mildly ill people thus resulting in another peak of the disease. The rate at which this is spreading speaks for itself if it is a good idea in the near future. We are also very lucky that this has not mutated.
Earlier and widespread testing would have caught this much sooner. Appropriate action and preparation could have happened. It is hard to believe that more than half of this country has performed less than 500 tests in the entire state as of today. How does one know that there aren’t “hotspots” in those states?
Stay well and be safe.
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Don't get me wrong - it's a tough disease to get and is very contagious.
But the point of not spreading it around is - to not collapse our health system!
The sooner the lockdowns (too late America), the fewer the people that will get it. (as the epidemiologists say) For many people, the disease actually won't be that hard but some scientists are saying - they are the ones that may be spreading it around. If 10% of people need to be hospitalized for it at the same time - then there won't be a doctor to treat your heart attack, accident, cancer, etc - then more people will start dying that way!
Most people will recover and many people won't even be affected by it - but that's not the point. You could be a single person, not know you have it and spread it around your town. Multiple that by millions and therein lies the problem.
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An interesting one - my wife had an email from teacher friend teaching in China talking about how things are getting back to more normal about 10 weeks in. One of the tools that is key to getting back to normal has been use of QR code system and app that measures and records your temperature on a regular basis and gives you a green (for go), yellow (for quarantine), red for get to the hospital. If you have green you can move around, but restaurants, shops, malls, even employers all want to see your green code before you can come in. App seems to sit on your phone with some other probably invasive data about you.
Sounds like this is also required for moving between quarantine zones which presumably there is still controls preventing access unless you are green.
Getting closer to the machines controlling us, seems like a scene from the Expanse, but sounds like it has restored a lot freedom for and confidence in people that they won't be getting accidentally sick. As a society we are loving invasive apps like facebook and twitter, what's one more...
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Hmmm. It is interesting if people think that this will magically disappear by social distancing or stay at home. Yes it is to help to slow the spread and prevent those who do not have it to get it. The idea is to flatten the curve and spread the timing of those getting sick while decreasing risk to those who are most vulnerable to become severely ill. If they do become ill, then there is increased time that this happens. This will allow hospitals the time to acquire appropriate equipment and personnel and not overload them with severely sick people at the same time. Patient care is significantly compromised, and the mortality rate is unnecessarily increased in overcrowded hospitals and emergency departments. Overcrowding poses great risk to healthcare workers.
Relaxing social distancing and stay at home mandates too early will result in exposing those who do not have the disease to the asymptomatic or mildly ill people thus resulting in another peak of the disease. The rate at which this is spreading speaks for itself if it is a good idea in the near future. We are also very lucky that this has not mutated.
Earlier and widespread testing would have caught this much sooner. Appropriate action and preparation could have happened. It is hard to believe that more than half of this country has performed less than 500 tests in the entire state as of today. How does one know that there aren’t “hotspots” in those states?
Stay well and be safe.
How does one know that there aren’t more “hotspots” in other places? IMO the rate of hospitalization, mortality, etc. If everyone’s got it in an area and the symptoms are mild enough that they just thought it was a slight cold, then what’s the overall harm? Or another way - if 80% of the population in the Dallas suburbs have it and no one needs medical attention, why do we really need to test them?
It’s not really coming out the way I intend it though. My point is why do extensive testing in areas that don’t have much of an issue? How do we define “hotspot?” Is it solely based on the number of diagnoses or is it a combination of number and the impact it’s having?
Like practically everything else associated with this virus, there’s no good answer IMO. Test where it’s knowingly concentrated and causing issues. Then start testing where they think the next places might be. With limited resources, one needs to prioritize.
All IMO.
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How does one know that there aren’t more “hotspots” in other places? IMO the rate of hospitalization, mortality, etc. If everyone’s got it in an area and the symptoms are mild enough that they just thought it was a slight cold, then what’s the overall harm? Or another way - if 80% of the population in the Dallas suburbs have it and no one needs medical attention, why do we really need to test them?
It’s not really coming out the way I intend it though. My point is why do extensive testing in areas that don’t have much of an issue? How do we define “hotspot?” Is it solely based on the number of diagnoses or is it a combination of number and the impact it’s having?
Like practically everything else associated with this virus, there’s no good answer IMO. Test where it’s knowingly concentrated and causing issues. Then start testing where they think the next places might be. With limited resources, one needs to prioritize.
All IMO.
It’s very good that there aren’t high numbers of deaths or hospitalized patients in many states. The problem is that the asymptomatic or mildly symptomatic people are not staying put and can travel to other countries, counties and states. Knowing that people are positive for COVID-19, and that there is a high number, then those can self quarantine and not spread it. You can then contact trace those individuals. What is happening in New Orleans after Mardi Gras is only now being realized. Would things have changed if people were tested even if they had mild symptoms? Dr. Fauci is now on CNN promoting more widespread testing on more people and isolate quickly.
You are correct that there is no good answer. Hindsight is 20/20. The problems with testing and it’s availability certainly did not help.
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For those still asking questions you need only play with this interactive graph stirman posted. I'm a pretty smart guy and I've been following the pandemic closely, but I never really could visualize all the parameters until I spent an hour with this graph. After becoming familiar with how it works it wasn't long before anyone can see the difference between 2,800 dead and 2.2 million dead in the US and the reasons why. Anybody advocating anything less than 60 days isolation is a dangerous buffoon.
This is a very interesting article !! The graphs can be adjusted by the reader to show different possible Outcomes—
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/03/25/opinion/coronavirus-trump-reopen-america.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage
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Yes that is an excellent interactive tool.
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Here is the BS that the health care workers are facing by asshole administrators who have no patient care at all-
Editor's note: Find the latest COVID-19 news and guidance in Medscape's Coronavirus Resource Center.
As upper management patrolled the halls at one hospital in California, telling staff they could be fired on the spot for wearing N95 masks brought from home, one nurse asked to see the policy. The administrator told her that, if she was going to wear one, she needed a note from her doctor.
"One of my biggest concerns is the nontransparent way management is addressing these issues," said the nurse, who did not want to give her name. "If we don't start treating healthcare workers as adults, providing us with honest information, adequate protection, and supplies, I am terrified that this current situation will quickly escalate, not just with viral spread, but with staffing shortages through contagion and/or the 'rats off a sinking ship' scenario."
As hospitals watch their supply of masks and other personal protective equipment (PPE) dwindle, they have severely curtailed their use. But the constraints have become so restrictive that physicians and nurses on the frontlines of the COVID-19 pandemic believe their health is being sacrificed to assuage staff and patient morale. Practitioners are reacting with fear and rage, and they are facing everything from ridicule to reprimand — or worse — for taking matters into their own hands.
Some are being told by their hospital administrators they cannot wear PPE in hallways or that they can't bring their own PPE to a facility. In some cases, practitioners are being threatened with disciplinary actions or even fired when they have continued to use gloves, masks, or other gear.
The hospitals point to a variety of reasons for their actions, from the idea that PPE needs to be conserved and used as minimally as possible to the notion that it scares patients.
Private Facebook groups, Twitter, and other social media outlets are bursting with stories from doctors, nurses, and other healthcare workers. Many are anxious and fearful. Some are losing faith in administrators who tell them that working without PPE is safe, even while providing no evidence to back up those assertions. Still others are just plain angry.
"I'm tired of hearing stories of docs and nurses getting reprimanded by the ‘suits' for wearing a freakin surg mask when they are on the unit because it ‘looks bad,'" tweeted Ali Haider, MD. "Do you know how many HCP are admitted in the US? Are you on the wards? I say F that. Protect yourselves. #COVID19."
I would band together with the doctors and nurses at this hospital and lawyer up.
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My wife's an interpreter for the local hospital system.
All of the interpreters now work from home. Her workload is way down as people are afraid to go to the hospital.
I don't think I ever said what I do.
I work for Labor & Industry and I'm certainly rather busy these days.
We are on track to have 650,000 new unemployment claims in the last two weeks.
During the height of the Great Recession we had a high of 168,000 claims in a 4 week period.
I think I'll have enough work to keep me out of mischief until I retire.
Note: these figures are just for the state of PA
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There is an article in The Atlantic entitled: "How The Pandemic Will End".
I presume that it is a reasonable example of what will (or may) happen in the coming weeks and months. It's very sobering. Can any of the doctors or scientists who read this comment on its accuracy?
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/03/how-will-coronavirus-end/608719/?utm_source=share&utm_campaign=share
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A comment about testing. A article from a retired doctor whining about how she went around trying to be tested, she already KNEW she had it, but she wanted to be tested. so between her own doc, some clinic, whining to her Congressman ER visit, etc. WHY??? I cannot fathom WHY she thinks she needed a frick'in test? She admits she is certain she has it .So many idiots so little time.
This notion the some test is going to DO SOMETHING? what?
Tell me.
Just like some guy whining he went to the ER, spent three days living on a cot in a hospital corridor. All they gave him was some Tylenol.
What was the hospital need for? I hope he gets the bill for $70,000. and has to pay out of pocket.
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:o
How do you feel, Elizabeth? Are you concerned, worried, scared, terrified?
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Now a comment by some news about the original epicenter.. Seems patients who had it then recovered have it again, just not symptomatic. So they are carrying the virus and tests show they have it just no symptoms. So they can seem OK but be passing it on to others.
Like I wrote before everyone is gonna get this. Sooner or later..
The folks I wonder about are all those taking immune-suppresent drugs.. particularly for IBS and skin conditions. Are they willing to die from Corons and keep taking the drugs? What are their doctors telling them?
I remember some College student with a fever died since her school doc was oblivious to her taking an immuno-suppresant drug.
Folks with transplants never would be able to stop taking the drugs.
At least we know we all gotta die anyway, some sooner .. Some later.
I am already old as mummy dust, so what do I care. LOL
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Elizabeth, you are spot on about testing. It is not going to change anything if you have or do not have the virus. If you are negative on the test you could be positive the next day or the next week. You can't get tested weekly.
You are also correct about being able to get the virus again. It was reported a few weeks ago that some people Japan got the virus a second time. This does not bode well for us because is lessens the effect of herd immunity.
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Well, if you aren't tested, you aren't counted as having it, proving the numbers are much lower than the statistics show.
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Well, if you aren't tested, you aren't counted as having it, proving the numbers are much lower than the statistics show.
Very true, the numbers are a lot higher than being reported. Just yesterday we had 2 patients that probably they had COVID. Both were doing fine.
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Well, if you aren't tested, you aren't counted as having it, proving the numbers are much lower than the statistics show.
We all know that there is no treatment for this. A positive test isn’t going to change supportive treatment.
Bingo!
My point of testing those with minimal symptoms is for data gathering. If one tests positive, then you can isolate that patient and contact trace. Testing those contacts gives you more information as to the spread. Hotspots can then accurately be identified and confined appropriately. Not testing misses potential areas of concern and individuals will continue to perpetuate the spread.
Leaders may announce soon to label counties with high, medium or low positive testing. Based on this information, one county with high numbers testing positive (hotspot) will be locked down while the adjacent county that is low won’t have much restriction. Unfortunately the data is incomplete. Not identifying other areas due to low numbers of tests is inaccurate and poses risk. This will prolong the time to reach the plateau or result in multiple peaks.
(Edited to add the word ‘supportive’)
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Releasing restrictions by county seems a fools errand to me. Nothing prevents infected from an adjacent county traveling to unrestricted bars, restaurants, movie theaters, shopping malls, etc. in the uninfected county. It appears to be more politically motivated which we're forbidden from discussing here. Where I live it's a short walk to the next county and a 5 minute drive to two others, we often cross country lines to shop and work. The other counties are much more rural and have much lower rates of infection than the one I live in which contains a large American city.
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My point of testing those with minimal symptoms is for data gathering. If one tests positive, then you can isolate that patient and contact trace. Testing those contacts gives you more information as to the spread. Hotspots can then accurately be identified and confined appropriately. Not testing misses potential areas of concern and individuals will continue to perpetuate the spread.
Leaders may announce soon to label counties with high, medium or low positive testing. Based on this information, one county with high numbers testing positive (hotspot) will be locked down while the adjacent county that is low won’t have much restriction. Unfortunately the data is incomplete. Not identifying other areas due to low numbers of tests is inaccurate and poses risk. This will prolong the time to reach the plateau or result in multiple peaks.
This site is up. I'm not sure if it will get everyone signed up for it - but it would be an incredibly useful database to keep a track of where the virus is going.
www.covidnearyou.org (http://www.covidnearyou.org)
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Releasing restrictions by county seems a fools errand to me. Nothing prevents infected from an adjacent county traveling to unrestricted bars, restaurants, movie theaters, shopping malls, etc. in the uninfected county... Where I live it's a short walk to the next county and a 5 minute drive to two others, we often cross country lines to shop and work. The other counties are much more rural and have much lower rates of infection than the one I live in which contains a large American city.
Winner, winner chicken dinner.
I’ll go farther and question the availability of testing and its delay in such a technologically advanced country. See no evil so there is no evil to worry about.
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My county is being put on lock down tonight, that 19 counties in PA so far.
The rules seem stupidly lax but not my call.
Not exactly chucking you in your home and welding the place shut.
Elizabeth,
Not to wish any misfortune to come your way but just bear in mind that I'll give those 20.7s a loving home.
No cats to claw them, just an old dog that snores more than I do (maybe).
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People! :duh:
https://www.kmov.com/news/local-nurse-resigns-after-being-told-she-can-t-wear/article_c0d13a3e-7089-11ea-b0e9-ffee66285f33.html?fbclid=IwAR2R8z3ZKbFcnU_ughjGIpBmRHeaT1YGaFE2O-BhftbSaDmOukeUmUvuRbE
My nurse friend in Houston was also asked to not wear her mask because people might freak out. :o With people everywhere wearing masks, it just doesn't make any sense. :scratch:
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An Italian nurse committed suicide after she got the virus and feared she had given it to others.
My daughter made her niece some masks and shipped to her. Now her ward has become a Coronavirus ward.
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People! :duh:
https://www.kmov.com/news/local-nurse-resigns-after-being-told-she-can-t-wear/article_c0d13a3e-7089-11ea-b0e9-ffee66285f33.html?fbclid=IwAR2R8z3ZKbFcnU_ughjGIpBmRHeaT1YGaFE2O-BhftbSaDmOukeUmUvuRbE
My nurse friend in Houston was also asked to not wear her mask because people might freak out. :o With people everywhere wearing masks, it just doesn't make any sense. :scratch:
What fools are making those decisions ? Mgmt ? Doctors ? Both ?
charles
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What fools are making those decisions ? Mgmt ? Doctors ? Both ?
charles
Management.
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One of our good friends is a CNA. She's been at the same hospital for more than ten years. She told us today that management has strictly forbidden wearing of masks. I do not know if ER staff are allowed to wear masks.
Update:
Apparently Nurses and some(?) doctors are allowed to wear masks, but CNAs (and other support staff??) are not. Same excuse: "Don't want to scare patients." :nono: There is confusing information coming from 'sources' about this policy. There's a FB group that supplies info about updates, but it doesn't appear to be an official hospital FB page. :duh: What a mess.
[snide remark next] Obviously, it's much better to ensure more people get sick so as to generate more income a week or two later. :duh:
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People! :duh:
https://www.kmov.com/news/local-nurse-resigns-after-being-told-she-can-t-wear/article_c0d13a3e-7089-11ea-b0e9-ffee66285f33.html?fbclid=IwAR2R8z3ZKbFcnU_ughjGIpBmRHeaT1YGaFE2O-BhftbSaDmOukeUmUvuRbE
My nurse friend in Houston was also asked to not wear her mask because people might freak out. :o With people everywhere wearing masks, it just doesn't make any sense. :scratch:
The hospital my son works at here in town has the same policy. I think that a court would rule against a hospital. Healthcare workers need to be allowed to protect themselves. I wear a mask even if I am seeing a broken ankle. Not one patient has complained. It is easy for an administrator who is sitting in his office or working at home to make such a decision since they are not at risk and seeing patients. They see healthcare workers as disposable and replaceable.
I told my son to wear what he wants and let them fire him. It would make a great news story and lawsuit.
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This is why you test broadly.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/01/europe/iceland-testing-coronavirus-intl/index.html
“ Some of the revelations have been stark. Although fewer than 1% of the tests came back positive for the virus, the company's founder Dr. Kári Stefánsson told CNN that around 50% of those who tested positive said they were asymptomatic, confirming multiple studies that show that asymptomatic, or mildly symptomatic, people have played an important role in spreading the virus.”
“ The work has also helped researchers to visualize the spread of the virus. "We can determine the geographic origin of the virus in every single [virus] in Iceland,"
“ Why has Iceland chosen not to implement a lockdown?
Iceland has yet to take many of the draconian measures seen across Europe and Asia of state-wide lockdowns, though the island country has banned gatherings of 100 people or more and closed secondary and tertiary schools.
Officials say more restrictive measures haven't been needed because they were better prepared and armed with data to track the virus.
Iceland began testing its population in early February, weeks before its first coronavirus-related death, Stefánsson said, adding that health officials have aggressively contact-traced and quarantined confirmed and suspected Covid-19 cases.”
“He adds that many developed countries have an "amazing collection of talent" who could have "industrialized tests like this a long time ago" but "behaved like nothing was happening."
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Another thing about widespread testing is then you can see how many people really have it. For instance, in Iceland (and Vo, Italy), they found that 50-75% of the people who have it are asymptomatic but can transmit it (not sure how long that's for, though).
Other countries also used this to isolate the asymptomatic carriers. Basically, if you isolate everyone who has it, you can limit the spread.
Note that you have to test negative people multiple times, though. They can get positive after a while, and the tests have false negatives.
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The tests have a 10-15% false negative rate and a low sensitivity (46%) and high specificity (90%). The sensitivity goes up as you do more swabs (throat and boths sides of the Nasopharynx, this brings it up to possibly 70%).
And the issue is, you can be negative initially, but 2 days later be positive. But clearly wide spread testing is good and needed to help contain the virus.
The EM doctor from the east coast that ended up in the ICU on a ventilator had symptoms of COVID but his initial test was negative. 2 days later he was in respiratory distress and admitted to the ICU and tested positive.
Sensitivity (also called the true positive rate, the recall, or probability of detection[1] in some fields) measures the proportion of actual positives that are correctly identified as such (e.g., the percentage of sick people who are correctly identified as having the condition).
Specificity (also called the true negative rate) measures the proportion of actual negatives that are correctly identified as such (e.g., the percentage of healthy people who are correctly identified as not having the condition).
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Oh just lovely - 100 chartered a plane to Mexico. And how many more springbreakers were there throughout the nation?
https://news.yahoo.com/28-texas-spring-breakers-just-205700744.html
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I’ve also been thinking about all of the tourists visiting Vegas since January and then flying back home. They don’t have symptoms at first as the virus incubates. They get home, go out and spread it. We know that the virus lives for up to 72 hours on steel and plastic. It makes you think about slapping that Max Bet button on slot machines. Then there’s no social distancing while sitting next to each other during shows, concerts or at the card table. What about the lovely buffets? It makes you think twice about grabbing those crab legs with the tongs that everyone else just used.
Edit to add: I guess what happens in Vegas doesn’t just stay in Vegas.
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Here is a interesting map of a few folks on a Florida beach a few day's ago for spring break. And where did these folks all go.
This is a Facebook link and it appears to be public, or at least I didn't have to use my wife's account.
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=1060884867628936
And wont even go there on the cell phone tracking and yet I forget what country required you to install a app so they could track you after testing. Still not sure is it was swipe right or left :scratch:
Alan
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I’ve also been thinking about all of the tourists visiting Vegas since January and then flying back home. They don’t have symptoms at first as the virus incubates. They get home, go out and spread it. We know that the virus lives for up to 72 hours on steel and plastic. It makes you think about slapping that Max Bet button on slot machines. Then there’s no social distancing while sitting next to each other during shows, concerts or at the card table. What about the lovely buffets? It makes you think twice about grabbing those crab legs with the tongs that everyone else just used.
Edit to add: I guess what happens in Vegas doesn’t just stay in Vegas.
I traveled throughout Europe this winter. I left Paris on Feb 28th having spent the month there. I know I'm only one person but I'm good!
I was back in March and no one was telling anyone to even be careful.
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Some good news.
https://scitechdaily.com/mit-posts-free-plans-online-for-an-emergency-ventilator-that-can-be-built-for-100/?fbclid=IwAR0k4fOE9eKmz4_ej8f6khpmTtOhc7lUar-RubB0E1RbTL0J2NxBEjsfTqQ
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I see some are donating to the cause, are the rich also donating? They can die from the virus. Sony donated 100k.
NFL teams has also donated.