[DaveNote]

Hi Dave,

Good points and I feel for the consumer that has to purchase blind.

The way I meant the 'DEMO IS EVERYTHING' to be taken was more in the context of listening first... talk later. I find that a lot of products have a great story but when you actually listen to them they are disappointing to say the least. So I have adopted a philosophy which I believe works best for me. If I go to a show or a customers home or a reviewers home and hear their system and that system sounds good they now have credibility in my eyes and I will tend to take opinions offered by them in the future as valid opinions. If the reverse is true then no amount of pontificating on the virtues of a specific system or component has credence for me.

james

Hi James, your sympathy for those who buy without demos is much appreciated. And thanks for giving us a more complete explanation of why you use the phrase "The Demo is Everything." I have read it carefully, and, again, with respect, it appears what you are saying is that you use a demo as much to judge opinions of other people as you do to judge the equipment itself. So, I apologize if I read the phrase as being meant to show that you insist on demos, above all, to assess gear as a way to make better Bryston products. I understand your point, but at the risk of you're finding my opinion invalid, I believe that given how subjective these matters are, I personally find it a bit dicey to take the strong position that only opinions that agree with mine could possibly be valid.

The other comments offered on this topic are very interesting. To Elizabeth, I have to agree entirely that it is unimaginable to make a major purchase without a demo. And yet when I wanted to buy new speakers, there were only a few models in my area that were available for demos, and there was no PMC dealer. So, if I wanted new speakers in my price range that I thought I would like, I had to roll some serious dice and buy blindly. Luck was with me, and I got what I wanted. But it was a big gamble.

Neekomax noted that at times he bought demoed equipment he hated when he got it home. That reminded me I did this twice: once with Mission speakers and again with Boston speakers, many years ago. Which makes my buying MB2i speakers even more questionable. On the other hand, Neekomax makes the case that if the demo, for consumers, might ideally be everything, the ideal demo is in the home - which RLL1 sensibly calls a fantasy these days.

Drilling down on the comments of experienced audiophiles, my guess is that the degree to which we accept buying blindly or not may be a function of where we live and how big the closest big city is.

[PDR]

Whats the point of a demo if its not in your room with your gear?
A demo somewhere else, different conditions....meh, means nothing.

My gear has been bought unseen.....mostly from this forum.
So far, out of all my gear.....none has let me down, this is from your opinions, Ive read a lot of them.
I read and let the majority decide......so far....excellent.
From tube gear to speakers (GR and Selah) to SS, cables and ICs...you guys havnt let me down.

I live north from most, auditioning isnt  an option, thanks for the great advice.........

[lanchile]

Well, I got a B60 and a B100 Bryston integrated amplifiers without even listened to them, I knew Bryston was the pinnacle in audio... and I was Right!!!.

PS: I like the B60 better(simpler ).

[SoundGame]

Well, I got a B60 and a B100 Bryston integrated amplifiers without even listened to them, I knew Bryston was the pinnacle in audio... and I was Right!!!.

PS: I like the B60 better(simpler ).

B60 over the B100 for sonics, as well? 

[lanchile]

B60 over the B100 for sonics, as well?

Well Do not get me wrong here,B100 is an excellent integrated amp,But I like the sound of the B60 better. I did a A/B test side by side and The B60 sounded better to me.

[SoundGame]

Well Do not get me wrong here,B100 is an excellent integrated amp,But I like the sound of the B60 better. I did a A/B test side by side and The B60 sounded better to me.

Very interesting.  I'm guessing that the B60 would not be quite a revealing/analytical and you prefer that slightly less clinical sound - perhaps you could call it a touch of warmth in the neutrality of the sound.  I've actually heard some comment similarly on the difference in the BP26 vs. BP6 - the BP6 does not reveal quite as much details but come across as a touch warmer - not to say better but at least one comment I read, said som much of it.

[VOLKS]

I agree 100% that the DEMO is DEAD!(in the store that is).......unless you can 100% duplicate your exact listening room in the audio shop your doing the demo in!.....saying the Demo is Everything reminds me of a retail shops who hope to get you convinced/bought and bagged on the same day/nite you listen to their gear.......after all...... for ALOT of shops the least ammount of effort and the bigger/quicker the sale/return is pure sugar for them $$$$$$$.......a shop that offers a 30-60 "In home trail period is everything!!!!!.......and even then the gear may not be right for you........The Demo at home in your listening room is everything!

[lanchile]

Very interesting.  I'm guessing that the B60 would not be quite a revealing/analytical and you prefer that slightly less clinical sound - perhaps you could call it a touch of warmth in the neutrality of the sound.  I've actually heard some comment similarly on the difference in the BP26 vs. BP6 - the BP6 does not reveal quite as much details but come across as a touch warmer - not to say better but at least one comment I read, said som much of it.

Well, you said it better!!! B60 I found it softer (if I this is the right word for it). B100 was like listening to a Metal dome tweeter and the B60 was like listening to a soft done tweeter. Bought sounded clear, but if I had to pick one, I would go for the B60.

[jaxwired]

Seem to be 2 camps.  But the tide has turned and the "no demo" people are now the norm I think.

Even though my city has high end audio stores, I prefer not to frequent them.  I buy my equipment blind.   High end stores are dreadful places.  Not enough customers.

I think the slow death of high end audio stores is preventing the audio industry from finding a new and better model for customers. 

[Diamond Dog]

Curious - to those of you who are buying "blind", are you getting substantial discounts in return for taking that leap of faith, or are you still paying the asking price?  One would think that if you are buying from a non-stocking entity, be it a dealer who doesn't stock the particular model you want to hear or an internet vendor, the seller should be prepared to take some water in their wine and give up a portion of their mark-up in return for not having to carry the costs of maintaining inventory, etc.

D.D.

[neekomax]

Used or refurbed, and, yeah, I'll send that sh*t back if it sucks. So at the very least I make sure that the return terms are clear before I buy.

[Laundrew]

Just curious if the individuals who prefer to purchase audio gear without a demo would also purchase a vehicle without taking it for a test drive 

Be well...

[mrhyfy]

I've done it many times.....

[DaveNote]

Curious - to those of you who are buying "blind", are you getting substantial discounts in return for taking that leap of faith, or are you still paying the asking price?  One would think that if you are buying from a non-stocking entity, be it a dealer who doesn't stock the particular model you want to hear or an internet vendor, the seller should be prepared to take some water in their wine and give up a portion of their mark-up in return for not having to carry the costs of maintaining inventory, etc.

D.D.

I would guess that different buyers have different reasons for buying blind. In my case, I buy blind not because I want to, but because I have a choice of not buying at all (no dealers available) or waiting too long.

It was asked if I would buy a car blind. Given where I live, there are dealers of every vehicle within my price range, so the idea of buying blind simply wouldn't come up. If I had the money to buy an exotic care where no local dealer exists, I suppose I'd have enough money to travel to do a demo elsewhere.

Dave

[Laundrew]

I've done it many times.....

Interesting.

I remember we were once considering purchasing a Toyota Matrix to replace Lady Laundrew's most hideous Chrysler product, the dreaded and financial life sucking PT Cruiser. As the Matrix is built on a Corolla platform, and having owned my Corolla for the last 12 years, I thought that this would be the proverbial "No Brainer" and purchase the Matrix. I was disappointed with the test drive because of the aerodynamic noise we experienced inside of the vehicle. She later test drove a Scion and decided that that was the vehicle for her and we will replace her car next spring - oh, happy days. I am actually considering having her Chrysler crushed and sending it back to Chrysler Canada - Hmmm... perhaps I should use UPS. 



Be well... 

[PRELUDE]

I'm sorry,but I think none of this posts are close to what James said or I could be very wrong.You guys are talking about hear it before buy it.But what James talking about is the demo the gear first then talk.This is got nothing to do with buy the item or not.This is a good example,how many time you went to a show and cannot find the company's flagship item there or it is only a display and not even connected.I saw it and ask them to connect it for me and this is was the answer.We do not have the people to do it. I think this is what James is talking about or again I could be wrong.
Now if you want to talk about hear it before buy it,your chance is 1 out of 10 because of:
1.The speakers never going to be same if the demo was not done in your room.
2.If you live in a small or far locations you won't find any dealer.
3.What you like is not the case,if the x store cannot make the minimum of the profit has no favour for that gear.

[James Tanner]

I'm sorry,but I think none of this posts are close to what James said or I could be very wrong.You guys are talking about hear it before buy it.But what James talking about is the demo the gear first then talk.This is got nothing to do with buy the item or not.This is a good example,how many time you went to a show and cannot find the company's flagship item there or it is only a display and not even connected.I saw it and ask them to connect it for me and this is was the answer.We do not have the people to do it. I think this is what James is talking about or again I could be wrong.
Now if you want to talk about hear it before buy it,your chance is 1 out of 10 because of:
1.The speakers never going to be same if the demo was not done in your room.
2.If you live in a small or far locations you won't find any dealer.
3.What you like is not the case,if the x store cannot make the minimum of the profit has no favour for that gear.

Correct - many times we can be influenced or seduced by the rhetoric and we loose sight of the point - great sound - so listen first - talk later

james

[dflee]

Won't do anything new without a thirty or sixty day return policy. There are times when the product that you gushed over at first changes after getting used to the sound. For that reason I have steered away from B&M but still enjoy the eye candy they provide. I like those manufacturers that have enough confidence in their product to give me these opportunities.

[amblin]

Too much chit chat before/during the demo is like trying to set someone's thesis of BEFORE gathering enough creditable ground of argument. This could seriously interfere the actual demo.  It is just like a sales guy constantly saying ' did you hear that?!' 'awesome!' during the demo, 

Recently i just had an experience while chosing a new headphone for my head amp which was sitting idle 99.9% of the time . The HD800 had overall great reviews, so judging by the reviews, i'm quite tempted. But during an actual demo, i found out that it's a bit too bright for my taste. 

But that's just the small stuff. While buying other larger equiptments, most of us regular customers don't have the chance to actually 'home demo' the piece. For example, pair of speakers that weights 100+ lbs each, or sth that's well over $10000.

[James Tanner]

Too much chit chat before the demo is like trying to set someone's thesis of BEFORE gathering enough creditable ground of argument. This could seriously interfere the actual demo.  It is just like a sales guy constantly saying ' did you hear that?!' 'awesome!' during the demo, 

Recently i just had an experience while chosing a new headphone for my head amp which was sitting idle 99.9% of the time . The HD800 had overall great reviews, so judging by the reviews, i'm quite tempted. But during an actual demo, i found out that it's a bit too bright for my taste. 

But that's just the small stuff. While buying other larger equiptments, most of us regular customers don't have the chance to actually 'home demo' the piece. For example, pair of speakers that weights 100+ lbs, or sth that's well over $10000.

Correct - and that was my second point with the 'demo is everything'. If you go somewhere - a show, a dealer, a friends house or even a reviewers home and are knocked out by the sound that person should be listened too - its easy to talk a good story it is much tougher to deliver the goods - gee's try it at a show sometime

james