[freakygreek]

Hi,
          I have some questions concerning PMC speakers in particuler the IB1 and IB2. I have already heard the OB1's but want to know more about there higher end models.            


        1.  I was wondering if someone here can give me a rough estimate on what the cost is for the IB1/IB2 speakers in both standard and signature versions.
 
         2. Are the signature versions better and can one upgrade a standard to a signature later on.


         3. Would those speakers be to much for my listening area 20x14 or should I stick with the OB1's.


         Cheers and Many Thanks

[jethro]

1.  I was wondering if someone here can give me a rough estimate on what the cost is for the IB1/IB2 speakers in both standard and signature versions.

I'm not a dealer. and I seem to have lost my MSRP list, but I believe the IB1 is around 11,500 CDN and the IB2 is 14, 000 CDN for the veneered versions.
 
 

2. Are the signature versions better and can one upgrade a standard to a signature later on.

I don't believe there are signature versions except for the LB1. If you are referring to the Studio versions, I believe there is no difference except for the finish (and I think you can specify a special crossover).

3. Would those speakers be to much for my listening area 20x14 or should I stick with the OB1's.

I have a 13.5'x 18.5 ' room and I listen facing the long wall and the IB1's work great. I also have the IB1 center which sticks out into my room (in front of an RPTV), but with the lights off, the center merges acoustically with the left and right and you no longer fixate on the big speaker in front of you. For 2-channel, the sweet spot is a bit narrow, and I would probably rotate my setup if I didn't have a fireplace in the way (I might try it this summer). I listen from 7-8' feet away from my speakers and they work great. I haven't heard the OB1's so I can't comment on whether they would be better for your room (size-wise and acoustically). If I could permanently rotate my room and move my electronics rack to another room, I wouldn't hesitate to put IB1's or IB2's all the way around.

[James Tanner]

Hi freeky,

There are no Signature versions of the IB1 or IB2 just S (studio) finish and wood finishes. Cherry and Black being the standard finishes. The S finish is about 5% cheaper. The LB1 has a Classic and a Signature version. It is the only PMC speaker that does.

The IB1 is !0,000 the pair Canadian and the IB2 is $15000 the pair suggested list.

The 20 x 14 would not be a problem. The nice thing about Transmission lines is they roll off very gradually below resonance - 6dB per octave ( as opposed to ported systems at 12 or 24dB) which falls in nicely with the fact that room 'gain' at low frequencies is about 6dB as well. So I have found that the larger transmission line PMC speakers can sound excellent in what would seem to be an overly large speaker in a small room.

The other point about PMC speakers is that they are designed as 'point sources' so you do not have to be a long way from them before they sound integrated.

Hope this helps.


james

[freakygreek]

Thanks everyone for the feedback. Thanks for the clarification on the s standing for studio and not for signature.

      I still have a few more questions. Right now my speaker placement is along the short wall allowing me to bring them out into the room but at the cost of haveing them close together.  I've done this as my present speakers are rear ported.

     1. Are PMC speakers affected by rear wall placement as other speakers. If not then I'll switch to longwall placement.

     2. If I buy used what warrenty can I expect if any.

     3.Will I have to switch to monoblocks(7BSST's) or can I still use my 4BSST.

     4. Are these speakers IB1 tri-wired.


     Cheers and Many Thanks

[James Tanner]

HI,

1. All speakers are affected by wall placement but the PMC IB1/2 because of their front transmission loading are less affected.
2. Warranty is for 5 years
3. 4B will be fine in your size room.
4. Yes they can be tri-wired.

james

[jethro]

1. Are PMC speakers affected by rear wall placement as other speakers. If not then I'll switch to longwall placement.

The transmiission line terminates at the front so I don't believe they are affected by rear wall placement. They are also made so that they can be soffit mounted for studio setups. I have mine about a foot from the wall and the bass is not bloated - it's nice and tight.

2. If I buy used what warrenty can I expect if any.

Somebody else will have to answer this question, however, Bryston is not that far away from you so it should be easy to get support for the speakers should you require it.

3.Will I have to switch to monoblocks(7BSST's) or can I still use my 4BSST.

The 4B-SST should be sufficient. I use a 4B-ST with no clipping problems whatsoever and lots of volume. The 3B-ST will drive the IB1 quite well as well, however, I think you loose a little bit of bass control.

4. Are these speakers IB1 tri-wired.

Yes.

[freakygreek]

Thanks again for the info. I just spoke to my dealer and he suggested for         my living space that the IB1's might be too much.He mentioned that the speakers really shine at high levels but can't that be said for most speakers. That's what I heard about the B&W's 804's.
     
      I live in an apartment but that never stopped me from enjoying my music at a reasonable level(85dB)
     
     He mentioned about stands and an upgrade in amplification basically two 4BSST 's per speaker.

       That wouldn't be a problem as I would later buy amps and better stands.

        He did mention that he might be able to arrange a demo of the OB1's in my place.

       What route should I take.

       Cheers

[Alfalfa]

Get the best PMC you can and upgrade whenever in the future you feel like (and can cater for) it!

You can only make one best start!!

[freakygreek]

Thanks,

        In the end I have to be comfortable with whatever I choose. I realize that I can always sell when I deceide to upgrade much as I will be doing for my present speakers.

        When the time comes I'll post as to which route I've taken.


        Cheers

[afblaster]

OB1 versus IB1?

The mid-range driver and tweeter are the same for these speakers, but there is a huge difference in performance between them,  because of the much bigger bass driver of the IB1 and IB2.

If you desire extended bass with no problems with bass power handling, then buy IB1s (or IB2s).
If however you play your music at moderate levels, and never crank up the volume, then buy OB1s.
I have owned OB1s and currently have IB1s, because they go very loud and very deep, so much so I will never need a sub-woofer.  
The OB1 doesn't have the same efortless bass and volume capacity as the IB1/2, and I found that a TLE1 sub was necessary.
I found it was all too easy to overload the bass drivers on my OB1s when trying to reproduce deep bass at realistic levels ( I like my music LOUD!)

A single 4B-SST has more than enough power to drive my IB1s to very loud levels, as it delivers 500W per channel into the 4 ohm load of the IB1/2.  My room is 18' x 12' and I have no problems with the speakers exciting room resonances, which I believe is a major plus point of transmission line designs.  My speakers fire down the length of the room.



It is worth bearing in mind that the OB1 is a 'domestic' speaker, whereas the IB1 is a true studio monitor, and as such is designed to take some 'abuse' without complaining.

If you can afford them, buy IB1s or IB2s, because I doubt you'll ever feel the need to replace them.  

For more info do a search for my other postings on this forum.

Cheers!

[freakygreek]

Right now I can't really crank it up but the time will come when I move into a home. There a dedicated room will be done for both 2channel and HT.

    It's just that I see myself owning them down the road and I would hate to buying something just to sell it later.

    If playing my music/movies at 85dB is not loud enough then how loud is loud.  I mostly listen to Jazz  with some modern pop and classic rock. Classical is very limited with only a few Pipe Organ Pieces.
     
    Cheers

[afblaster]

How loud is loud?

I like my music loud enough to be able to feel the bass.
In real terms this equates to peak spls of 110 - 115dB at my listening seat, 11.5' from the speakers.  At the end of a 'heavy' listening session I admit I am temporarily slightly deaf!  The problem (if it is a problem) is that the speakers and Bryston amps are so free from any signs of audible   compression or distortion, that it is very easy to listen at spls that are too high.  But it's good to be able to accomodate peaks without distortion, when listening at sensible volume levels.

In my opinion the IB1 (and IB2) are  'no-compromise' loudspeakers which I am confident will satisfy me for many years to come.  My dealer said that they are possibly the last loudspeakers that I will ever purchase - and he is probably right.  If you need any further convincing, here is a quote from a review I found when researching the IB1s:

"The real king is the IB1. This is an unforgettable loudspeaker and is the model Spielberg used for the first time when he mixed the sound track for Private Ryan in 1997! It is a three-way design with the fabulous fabric dome tweeter and mid-range as used in the OB1, but differs greatly by way of its flat 10" piston driver made of Kevlar and carbon fiber. This loudspeaker will produce bass to down unbelievable levels and will teach one what real bass reproduction is. This is a must hear loudspeaker. One customer stated that it kicked to the curb every other loudspeaker he had ever heard! Experience this for yourself."

Cheers!

[Alfalfa]

I agree with much that Afblaster has said (although 115 db peaks seem terribly high to me I know exactly what you mean: the Bryston/PMC combo allows you listen at very high levels without realising how load it exactly is (I should measure this too).

There is one other golden hint:  the speaker is by far the component which has a decicated sound signature or character. If you buy one and want to upgrade later because you know where the sound can be approved, you'll be listening to you newer speakers thinking back to the good times you'll also had with the older ones. To remedy this you could buy a speaker which is actually better than the rest of your system. In upgrading the system later, you'll only have benefits in hearing the improvements of the other upgraded components while still keeping the sonic signature which you'll get attached to more and more when you own the speakers for a really long time.

I hope I get my point clear. There's too many audiophiles that are unhappy with their expensive equipment because they remember the best qualities of all the components that they have owned. THere is no speaker that has all these qualities, therefore: get the best you can right from the start and discover all its qualities later in you audiophile life!

Ugh, I've spoken  

[freakygreek]

Well I deceided to see how loud is my system and at  85dB it's pretty loud from my listening position(11ft). If it means that to enjoy the IB1's I have to listen  to them at even louder levels I tell you I'd be living on the curb in a weeks time.

        Here's a website of some interest:

              http://www.dangerousdecibels.org/hearingloss.cfm

        Back to the IB1 the reason I'm considering such an expensive speaker is because I want a  speaker that will grow with me as I upgrade my other componets.

         Cheers

[thomaspf]

Yes, and please consider that these approved hearing levels are rather high in the US compared to other industrialized nations. You are very likely to get permanent hearing loss even when listening to 85db. At least your ears will get damaged to an extend that you won't be able to tell the difference between a good or a bad loudspeaker.

This is the main reason I have been pledging for a loudness restoration function in th SP1. Since movies are mastered at 85db (per speaker, which is more like 89-90db for a 5.1 system) the sound will the tinny and lacking bass when played at domestic levels of 70-75db.

Cheers

   Thomas