AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Owner's Circles => Virtue Audio Owners => Topic started by: virtue on 30 Mar 2014, 03:10 am
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The PSUs ship in the box.
So, about the propeller post. That chassis was designed around the propeller form factor but with the THREE (dead) and iMake we tried to add more inputs and the propellers no longer fit.
One solution was to break the propeller into two parts, which is what I did. There is 1 propeller in every box and it fits on there loosely but surely, as a tool. Like a wrench. It's the same plastic, with a different metal piece molded inside (the female part to the male post head). The MOQ on the old propeller heads went up to 1,000 pcs so that was not an option for this limited production run. We had the tools in stock from the aborted THREE production a few years ago. Fortunately.
One other note, the ONE.3 is in the old case - there is no notch in the hole to prevent you from over-torquing the binding post. That will change in the iMake when the whole unit will twist before loosening the post if you over-torque.
In the future, it's likely that I'll use a less expensive post in future entry-level models. For the ONE.3 which is sort of a come-back product, I didn't want to sacrifice anything. These still have the strain relieve washer and a really cool propeller - in the box. Please do use a twist tie or something to fasten it to the PSU or make sure to not throw it away in the box. You can use a standard pliers or something but risk dinging the post.
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http://www.chromebattery.com/12v-12ah-sealed-lead-acid-sla-t2-connector.html
http://www.amazon.com/Schumacher-CR-2-Universal-Battery-Charger/dp/B005F1YJA6
Just buy a couple of these batteries and a charger like this. I think with these two batteries you could get over 12 hours of playing time. I normally only listen to my amp on the weekend and at night time. But anyway, Lead Acid batteries like to float and not be flat lined. You'll be replacing the batteries much sooner if you drain them.
What I would do is wire in a switch that controls half an outlet. Plug the charger into the switched side of the outlet. Then when you want to listen to your amp, flip the switch off so you are not getting the AC noise of the charger and presto DEEP DARK sounds from the batteries. Turn amp back off and flip the switch back on to float the battery for next use.
Simple and cheap! Just wire and make a wood box to put batteries in... You'll have a nice setup.
:thumb:
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Hello Josh,
Read my post on the other threads about batteries for the sensations. The ideas are the same. Your little should have a short start circuit. Sincere greetings, Edward
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Hey Edward and Eric, Thanks again for your help. Much appreciations! Josh
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Hi Guys,
Well I'm a bit surprised but the Virtue One.3 arrived today from Taiwan. I did mention that we were roughly in the same vicinity of Taiwan but I didn't expect the amplifier to arrive today. Anyway I hooked the amplifier up to my system and I have to say that the amplifier sounds far better than its asking price. Surprising it is driving my 84db @ 4 ohm speakers quite well and the bass is quite impressive. It makes me wonder why I spent so much on my amplifiers. The fit and finish of the amplifier is also quite good. The only minor issue that I can see is that the blue led is too bright for my taste but really its only a minor issue.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=97123)
Cheers Rod
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Hello,
You did create some extra '' room '' in your set up by switching to such a tiny amp. I would say '' let's get 2 big Ah 12 volts batteries and an intelligent charger''
http://www.battery-usa.com/Catalog/evx_12400.pdf These are the ones i did get in my country( netherlands) You can see if you use them with the charger connected and just switch off the charger when listening you will just have a very small discharge and the smaller the discharge the more it can be recharged. See the graphics in the link. Going for the big batteries will give you a huge discharge current, lower internal resistance and longer life because the batteries will have an easy life.
Sincere greetings, Edward
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Hi Edward,
Great idea but I have no idea how to make battery power work with this amplifier. I'll run it in a bit more and provide my opinion of this little amplifier in the next few days.
Regards Rod
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Hello Rod,
I did see a soft start indicated on the photo of the circuit and this has been the biggest issue with connecting batteries to Virtue gear. The current available from batteries and the big capacitor used on the circuit causes a big current during switch on. So this has to be tempered by a soft start.
The power supply you are using now is connected to the virtue by means of a small plug. So you need a cable with an identical plug. This cable establishes the connection of the + and the - provided by the power supply.
You need 2 twelve volts identical batteries that you have to put in series. Seth did tell us 7AH will do. But a small AH rating will run empty in a few hours and with 25% of the capacity remaining after listening the number of charges is limited. If you use it for the same amount of time you will discharge an 7AH 75% and an 40AH model just about 13%. So the big ones will have a much easier life.
As you can see in another thread called replacing batteries in dodd power supply ( something like that) you can see some photos. One batteriy - connected to the wire going to the amp ( watch poliraty) the + of that batterie connected to the - of the other battery and the + of that other battery connected to the other cable. The two connections wired to the cable also receive the cable from the charger ( 24 volts) to load them.
All in all very easy just take care you don't make a short circuit. I am using a cteck charger. It is kind of high grade but there are cheaper ones available. They say the better chargers will give your batteries a better longer life. Anyway go for a brand name and usually the brand name batteries have better specs and life time.
Sincere greetings, Edward
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Hi Edward,
Thanks for the information.
Cheers Rod
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Rod,
Thanks for posting the great photo. And darn! I told them to up the resistor on that LED. It's easy to fix but not economical to do it... rats, sorry.
The Virtue Caps in there take a while to break in. They dampen the input circuit quite a bit so I'm excited to see how the pre-amp opens it up a bit more.
I was packing up the balance of the units today and my heart did flutter handling these things. There is something so right about the weight and geometry. Some days I wish they were more ugly so I could feel comfortable stopping production.
But these things are so cool aren't they?
Hugs to you,
Seth
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I dropped off the boxes near cut-off at USPS. They did not seem to scan them yet... argh. So tracking starts tomorrow I suppose. Everyone should have gotten a "shipped" email. Let me know if it didn't include a tracking number.
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Hi Seth,
I can always blacken in the led or use blue tack to cut the light out all together. If you look in the background behind the Salk Sound HT3'S there are a couple of pairs of Nuforce s9 speakers. These are the speakers that I'm going to use with the Virtue One.3 and my iMod and I think the combination will sound quite nice as the speakers are about 87 - 88db efficient and I also have a Salk Sound rhythmic subwoofer I can use as well.
I'll post some comments in a week or so once they are broken in a bit more. To be honest they sound very good from the moment they were in use. I'm really glad that you have these units back in production.
Cheers Rod
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Hello,
I have been using my sensation only above 80 hertz and have an svs active subwoofer. Using the batteries did improve the "" marriage "" between the subwoofer and my other speakers. Maybe batteries will give the sensation a better grip on the speakers.
I slways use xlo burn cd. Just turn up the volume , put it on repeat and play it when you are not there.
Sincere greetings,Ed
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Been listening to my first production unit today! A bit veiled but very nice! Can't wait to see how it breaks in.
On the unit that I have the volume control knob is slightly wobbly. It won't pull off but tightening it is not trivial. You would need to remove the cover, remove the LED, and using an M3 allen-wrench to tighten the set screw on the knob. It is intentionally inaccessible (so you can't see the screw) on the knob with the cover attached. For my own unit, I decided it wasn't worth the effort.
Update: It seems as though the screw was tightened very well -- creating quite a large hole in the flat part of the volume knob -- which subsequently loosened. A big of tightening works like magic. Good news! You don't need to remove the top entirely. Loosen 4 hex screws on corner of the unit and slide the cover back 1/2". Rotate the knob, to expose the set screw. Use same M3 allen-wrench to tighten the set screw from above. Sliding back the cover is a bitch because of the spring action fit. Find 2 non-metallic (non-scratching), stiff, flat things to spread the wings before you slide it back. Be careful not to damage the back of the PCB. I used some old PCB boards (fiberglass) but Popsicle sticks would work perfectly.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=97196)
Considering the utterly mind-boggling logistics required to get these things through development, testing, production and back to the USA, I am apologetically (and shamefully) delighted that this is the extent of our challenges! Nevertheless, anything that ships out after today will be checked and tightened by me personally.
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A few more questions came up.
1) What is the pre-amp? It's a LME49723 line buffer configured with 2.5x gain. So you may not be able to turn the amp up fully without clipping. With a low, 1v signal, you may not clip. A "normal" 2v signal, you will clip around half way up (2/3 on log pot). I really like the setup for computer audio (through a DAC). Can get good headroom with a low signal.
2) What are the jumpers inside? They allow bypassing the POT. However, remember that the pre-amp cannot be bypassed so you are going to run a lot hotter than your input source.
3) What is the subwoofer op-amp? Dual NJM4558.
4) What is VR2? It's a subwoofer gain adjustment. Don't worry unless you're running super sensitive speakers and you need more gain.
Seth
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Yep... Just got my virtue amp and am thoroughly impressed with the build quality, especially with its weight. It is definitely a solid piece of equipment... much more than I expected. Having owned a couple of t amps this one trounces them in craftsmanship even the one I have costing 3 x's the price of virtue. I look forward to listening to it when I return home. For the next week I'll just stare at it and imagine how nice it will sound in my audio set up (Rega Apollo-R; space tech labs 6L6G tube buffer; "virtue"; Hawthorne 15PSI open baffle)
While in Taiwan I hope to audition it with john blue's new 3F loudspeaker... With my wife's permission of course.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=96957)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=96958)
Hi Josh,
I notice in your picture, the volume dial is at approx 10 o'clock position. My ONE.3 is also at that position when mute (ie. start position). Just wonder if thats intentional?
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The volume position changed in the new version. It was a detail I lost track of when we had the new knobs machined. My vendor actually did bring it up during assembly and I let it go.
Now that there is an active pre-amp in the unit, you would rarely turn it all the way up. Even a half turn may be too much in some cases. So the reference position is less important in my opinion.
If you loosen the set screw enough (mostly out), you can actually turn the knob all the way around and clamp it onto the round portion (not the flat part).
If you try this, let me know how it goes.
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The volume position changed in the new version. It was a detail I lost track of when we had the new knobs machined. My vendor actually did bring it up during assembly and I let it go.
Now that there is an active pre-amp in the unit, you would rarely turn it all the way up. Even a half turn may be too much in some cases. So the reference position is less important in my opinion.
If you loosen the set screw enough (mostly out), you can actually turn the knob all the way around and clamp it onto the round portion (not the flat part).
If you try this, let me know how it goes.
Okay, noted, Seth.
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The volume position changed in the new version. It was a detail I lost track of when we had the new knobs machined. My vendor actually did bring it up during assembly and I let it go.
Now that there is an active pre-amp in the unit, you would rarely turn it all the way up. Even a half turn may be too much in some cases. So the reference position is less important in my opinion.
If you loosen the set screw enough (mostly out), you can actually turn the knob all the way around and clamp it onto the round portion (not the flat part).
If you try this, let me know how it goes.
Hi Seth,
Whilst tightening the screw on the volume knob, i accidentally pulled off the connector to the LED light. Do we need to reconnect them back in a black/brown order? or doesn't make any diff?
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=97286)
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=97287)
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Hi Guys,
Well I've had some bad luck with my Spread Spectrum Technologies Ampzilla 2000 mono blocks when I was swapping them back into my system after using the Virtue One.3. One of the Ampzilla mono blocks has been problematic since I bought it and I smoked it last night :duh:. The manufacturer has requested I return it to the US from Australia for repair.
It looks like the Virtue One.3 will be my main amp for the next few months. It really does sound very good with my Salk Sound HT3's and I can easily live with their sound.
Cheers Rod
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Wow, Rod! That's an honor!
In other news, I found a great way to hold the wrap open while sliding it back on if you don't have access to a beefy wooden Popsicle stick: wooden coffee stirrers from Starbucks. Please note that there are some delicate caps under the board (special, French AVX film caps) that can chip and break so be careful back there).
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=97304)
I'll start putting them in the boxes from now on.
Also, to Ian's point about the LED legs. On this board, the LED is soldered to the Pre-amp board... so the only way to get it off is to bend the long leg straighter, pull off the plug fixture, and then push it back on when you're finished. But you definitely don't need to do it to tighten the knob. You would need it to mess with the jumpers and/or change the subwoofer gain. If you need to do that, please fiddle with the top off but don't touch the boards while plugged in. Low voltage but your fingers (and tools) can short stuff.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=97305)
I'm still jazzed about these things. We give up a few things with the standard caps (vs. Auricaps or Sonicaps) but overall, I'm delighted.
Seth
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Hi Seth,
I actually just read my post again and I've understated my comment. Its a damn good little amplifier and I'm happy to live with it for a couple of months or so until the amps are fixed. Will you be continuing with the One.3 or will these be the last batch?
Regards Rod
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Hey Rod,
I actually made 500 Tripath amplifier boards but did not have money to finish all of those units. So if there is demand, I can finish them, and of course make more.
There is a configuration of iMake that will be very similar to this one (the pre-order includes 3 extra daughter boards which won't be standard). But if all you need is a clean integrated amp, it won't sound any better (or worse). So this amp will live again as iMake ONE.3 and I hope that iMake lives a long time.
Seth
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After a week of just staring at my amp (in Taiwan) I'm finally back home and listening to music again. (I'm already going on my 3rd hour.) I totally agree with Rod... "It's a damn good little amplifier." I am definitely enjoying what I hear. It's making my open baffle sing!
Cheers!
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Hello,
Only go to starbucks because the stirrers are nice. If you are a true virtue lover you should grind your own coffee just before drinking just like i do.
You can read on this circle and on the virtue website as well that if you want any virtue electronic to impress you should invest in the power supply.
The French did start using batteries in the eighties and they were focussing on a lot more things that did make sense ( some only after hearing it).
The power supply i did use before on my sensation was allready quite big. The stock power supply of the new born is just 65 watt and looks like a charger for an electric raser. It will work for sure but if the standard deal will come with the upgraded power supply it will be 139$ more expensive and some people might say 400 is okay but 539 is a bit to much.
So switching from the 65 watty supply to battery will surely remind you every day why you didn't do it before. I may sound like a stockholder for a big battery company. Maybe find someone who is using batteries ( 2 12 volts or 1 24 volts) for some other application and give it a try before spending some money on batteries and a charger. Usually the serious battery manufactures will have a data sheet where you can read about the number of charges related to the depth of discharge , internal resistance and maximum discharge current.
A very good battery will serve you much longer, a bigger AH rating will give less deep discharges so in the end you will end up spending less than when using mediocre ones.
http://sound.au.com/tcaas/monster29.htm
I hope the link will work. It is a translated copy from a french magazine published in 1983. I was already using batteries then( but not for a power amplifier i must admit). Todays batteries are probably better and cheaper as well because they are used in much more applications. The virtue shop will not start selling them because it will cost a lot to send them across the world. Just buy them locally. I buy them online in my own country with free delivery.
Just look how much space you have next to your ONE.3 and fill it up with batteries ( just 2 big ones will do). Cover the connectors on the output side of your '' battery pack'' so you cannot short circuit them while moving them around. My pack once mounted was nearly 58 lbs . So moving that around it will probably be close to your belly where there might be a buckle, a zipper, a necklace or a piercing. When you create a short circuit you will probably drop it and break something in your feet as well. Just be cautious.
Sincere greetings, edward
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I'm counting on you guys to find a cheap solution to the power problem!
My Taiwanese 130w medical-grade supplies are very expensive with high MOQ and shipping.
The SLA approach is nice because it's a commodity product.
But if you can figure out an ePacket (2 kg or less) solution from China, that would help all customers. I don't want to be in the power supply business!
Seth
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Hi Seth,
I can always blacken in the led or use blue tack to cut the light out all together. If you look in the background behind the Salk Sound HT3'S there are a couple of pairs of Nuforce s9 speakers. These are the speakers that I'm going to use with the Virtue One.3 and my iMod and I think the combination will sound quite nice as the speakers are about 87 - 88db efficient and I also have a Salk Sound rhythmic subwoofer I can use as well.
Cheers Rod
Rod, Let us know how the Virtue works out with those NuForce S9 speakers. IIRC, they were manufactured by SP Tech/Aether Audio for NuForce. Those SP Tech designs do like power by all accounts (more than their efficiency would suggest), and in my experience with the SP Minis I would agree. Will be curious to hear how the Virtue pairing does with those current hungry speakers.
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In response to Seth's previous posts, I have been inquiring into battery powered supplies for the virtue (through Alibaba in China.) I found two possible solutions with good specs; built in charger; and proper connection. I am waiting to hear back from the supplier for a quote and to confirm voltage output. Here is the link to the one I am especially interested in: http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/24-volt-battery-best-ups-batteries_1474167272.html If the price is right and everything checks out maybe I can run a short term "power" business...haha. Thanks for the idea Seth! (I am only in China for a couple more months.)
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12000mah,9800mAh is pretty low.
I would think one would want to run the amp for a week with out needing to RECHARGE the batteries. The higher the amp hours would be better since you really don't want to have the charger on while the amp is on. I think 15-20amp hours should be good.
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Hello,
This battery isn't the type we have been talking about. You need a so called agm type or a lifepo4 ( which red wine audio is using). And a bigger AH rating would be nicer in my point of view. Sincere greetings, Edward
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Hi Eric and Edward.
Thanks for your advice. Much appreciated. I will continue my search. For now, I am very pleased with the sound. I am using an upgraded Furutech power cord with mine.
Cheers!
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Hello,
I have seen negative experiences with low grade lifepo4 batteries on the internet. Charging has to be done in a specific way and some cheap chargers dont seem to work properly which will result in damaging the batteries.
The agm batteries are easier to charge and keep in good condition. So if i would have a limited budget i would go for big batteries and a brand name charger. Spend as much on the power supply as you will spend on the ONE.3. It is a good investment.
Take a look at some of the graphics on the link i did post yesterday.
Sincere greetings,Edward
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I received my One.3 a few days ago. It came with a surprise set of very nice looking interconnects - thanks Seth.
What little I've heard from the unit so far is very very good. Very quiet with excellent bass. I'm not getting as deep a soundstage as I'd like, but I suspect that's more an issue with my other equipment and untuned acoustical environment than with the Virtue. I won't have a good space to fully let them shine for another month or so.
It does have the volume control that's somewhat loose with the off position at 10 o'clock as others have mentioned. It's not a big deal for me so I haven't tried the coffee stirrer remedy yet.
Regards,
Jonathan
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Jonathan,
Thanks for your kind regards.
All of you early buyers - I don't normally ask for favors but let me ask this:
TELL YOUR FRIENDS ABOUT THE ONE.3
Were I to rely on dealers, the **real** price for these lovingly made, art-deco pieces of magic would be 30% higher. It's a wonderful gateway to the "high-end" - wonderful with a huge number of speakers, both desktop and full-size.
I have the units in my home office and can ship quickly (before Saturday and after Passover) personally.
Thank you so much.
Seth
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I set up my ONE.3 kit yesterday with Mission M71 speakers and Orb Audio Super 8 sub, it exceeds my expectations !
Thanks to Seth - I am vey pleased with my ONE.3.
Also, thanks to the folks that post here as I have been reading up on Virtue Audio for about 2 years - mostly on this forum.
I tightened my volume button today - the posted suggestions worked perfectly.
thanks again from Canada!
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=97994)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=97995)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=97996)
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Hello,
Seth did mention it before and i strongly belief that in order to make this little device sing in the end you will end up with adding a subwoofer.
This precious gem is only 400$ so you will save loads of money and be able to add a 500$ active subwoofer. Next investment would be some batteries and you are done.
It might not be called high end but it is very very nice. Much better than an integrated amp from the big guys who will '' improve '' their products with gimmicks you dont really need and let the marketing guys convince you to replace your stuff before you did understand the manual.
Sincere greetings, Edward
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Edward and Marc,
Thanks so much.
Hugs,
Seth
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Hi all (uh, Seth),
I'm strongly considering getting the One.3, but I have a couple of questions first...
The One.3 has a high pass filter for the speakers, but not a low pass for the sub, right? And how do you activate the high pass? Also, is there a manual for the One.3, or is it the same as the one for the One.2/Two.2?
I might have more questions, but I can't think of them off hand.
(Sorry if this is a bit off topic. I didn't want to start my own thread and this seems as good a place as any to ask.)
Thanks!
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Thanks for your interest!
> The One.3 has a high pass filter for the speakers, but not a low pass for the sub, right?
Correct!
To activate the high-pass, a second set of caps need to be installed. I will do this for you if you want -- free with your order (now that I'm packing and shipping them all myself). If you want a "high-end" 0.1uF cap, send it to me to install (or install yourself). There are empty solder holes and a jumper for the 2nd set of input jumpers.
I created an upgrade manual for users who want to upgrade their ONE.2 to ONE.3 (one customer blew up his ONE.2). I sell the ONE.3 replacement boards (2 pcs with wire harnesses) for $200 separately. Email me at seth at virtueaudio.com and I'll reply with it. Got lots of pics on the inside and goes through wiring, etc.
Seth
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(now that I'm packing and shipping them all myself).
:o
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Thanks for your interest!
No problem! You guys really piqued my interest a few years ago with the One.2 and Two.2, but were out of my budget at the time. I was always a bit disappointed when I'd go to your website and there was nothing there. I was excited to see you're back.
I also find it very encouraging that you (personally!) replied to my post within minutes. I'm also considering a NAD (though, now I'm considering it less and less), but I don't think they're even on these boards.
Very cool.
> The One.3 has a high pass filter for the speakers, but not a low pass for the sub, right?
Correct!
To activate the high-pass, a second set of caps need to be installed. I will do this for you if you want -- free with your order (now that I'm packing and shipping them all myself). If you want a "high-end" 0.1uF cap, send it to me to install (or install yourself). There are empty solder holes and a jumper for the 2nd set of input jumpers.
This is potentially a dumb question, but do you think there would be a noticeable difference if I ran it with a sub but without the high pass engaged? Basically, I don't want to limit myself if I ever want to upgrade my speakers to something that doesn't require a sub.
I created an upgrade manual for users who want to upgrade their ONE.2 to ONE.3 (one customer blew up his ONE.2). I sell the ONE.3 replacement boards (2 pcs with wire harnesses) for $200 separately. Email me at seth at virtueaudio.com and I'll reply with it. Got lots of pics on the inside and goes through wiring, etc.
Seth
Interesting. There is somebody on here that offered to sell me their old One.2, but I have a feeling this would end up being more expensive than just getting the One.3. Also, my DIY skills are minimal.
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Adding a second set of caps is not destructive and there is a jumper to choose between them.
That's the way it worked with the old amps too -- on these, I didn't have the money to buy the minimum quantity.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=98697)
But I do have an extra pair of 0.1uf caps to throw in there for you.
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That's awesome, thanks.
I'll discuss it with my girlfriend tonight and then hopefully I'll be a proud owner or a Virtue amp!
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That's awesome, thanks.
I'll discuss it with my girlfriend tonight and then hopefully I'll be a proud owner or a Virtue amp!
Buy first, then ask. Easier to ask for forgiveness than permission. ;)
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Aloha Megabigeye... Just curious. What type of speakers will you be using?
Hope you get permission.
I use to own some very nice sapphires XL speakers from ACI. They were very nice speakers. But they were just too big and I felt that I should sell them and buy something new when I got my house built in Hawaii. So I sold em for around 800 bucks. Probably paid close to 1K for them. But, now I am using a pair of infinity P163's I got off Amazon shipped for 300 bucks. I can really tell the build of infinity is not up to pare as the old RS-3.1 I have used in the past. Probably the Xovers are crap as well. But what do you expect for 300 dollar speakers? :) Funny the person that bought my sapphires told me I was a fool for selling them and he said he would never have sold them. I guess he was satisfied with the sound. :) Anyway..... I guess my next journey is finding better speakers.
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=98727)
Hello,
When ever a girlfriend visits me i always tell her my bass bins are sandfilled ( yes they are) and are just to heavy to move. They were transported with 2 and a half person without the back side which contains the biggest part of the sand.
I never did connect my virtue to this system but maybe one day i will try. They are connected to tube amps with an output transformer so very difficult to '' fry '' the Tad drivers.
Right now in the proces of adding a second active subwoofer to my virtue system. In the end they will be connected wireless so could use the second transmitter for sending the signal necessary to use the subwoofer in the bigger set.
I think the elipson coaxial speakers are 90db but the big ones are 104db in the lower region and the horn on top is 109db so a big need to adjust the gain.
Sincere greetings, Edward
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Aloha Megabigeye... Just curious. What type of speakers will you be using?
Hope you get permission.
I use to own some very nice sapphires XL speakers from ACI. They were very nice speakers. But they were just too big and I felt that I should sell them and buy something new when I got my house built in Hawaii. So I sold em for around 800 bucks. Probably paid close to 1K for them. But, now I am using a pair of infinity P163's I got off Amazon shipped for 300 bucks. I can really tell the build of infinity is not up to pare as the old RS-3.1 I have used in the past. Probably the Xovers are crap as well. But what do you expect for 300 dollar speakers? :) Funny the person that bought my sapphires told me I was a fool for selling them and he said he would never have sold them. I guess he was satisfied with the sound. :) Anyway..... I guess my next journey is finding better speakers.
Aw, I wasn't really asking permission. Mostly just "discussing" it with her so she feels included in the decision making. :shh: Well, I mean she is helping to pay for it, so I wanted to make sure she's wasn't heart-set on having a remote or bluetooth. Otherwise, I don't think she cares much if it's Virtue or virtueless. So, yes, "permission was granted."
Speaking of ~$300 speakers, I'll be using JohnBlue JB3 plus a BIC V1020. I think I paid $370 for the JB3s a few years ago, though I don't think they're available in the States anymore. Kinda too bad, in my opinion. Probably not up to par with your old Sapphires, but pretty damn god for the price. I used to have them hooked up to a Dayton DTA-100a (prior to that they were hooked up to a KingRex T20) and was constantly in awe of how awesome 3" drivers sound driven by a $90 amp... Granted, I don't have a lot to compare them to (though my dad does have a NAD C 325BEE (I think) and some sort of Def Tech bipolar somethingorother, and personally, I prefer my setup), but I'm of the mind that if I don't know what I'm missing then... I don't know what I'm missing. And I'm okay with that.
And thanks for the nice welcome!
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Interesting that you are going from a king-rex T2020 chip 20 watt to a tk250.
I came from a trends using a T2024 old school 9 watts. :) I still have my old sonic impact I bought from target for 20 bucks. The T-amp that started it all. What a crazy path.
I don't think you'll be disappointed with the sound of the three and it will be interesting to hear your listening impressions. Just be careful I guess, those 3" drivers are 30w max. Probably wouldn't want to push em too hard. Interesting speakers too. I remember whizzer cones! :) One day the infinity's will become the new deck speakers. Just like ACI, they no longer are in business. Kinda sad as they not only made good speakers but subs as well.
Your welcome, enjoy the ride.
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I didn't understand the JB3s until I heard them. Friggin amazing. Much more expensive today, right?
You should be in for a nice upgrade from the Dayton and Kingrex.
The Dayton Tripath amp really sucks but they cleaned up their act with the TDA amps which sound pretty good.
Keep us updated!
Seth
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Interesting that you are going from a king-rex T2020 chip 20 watt to a tk250.
Interesting how? I actually preferred the DTA-100a (TK2050) to the KingRex, but that may have been because it was more power which mean more louder. And more... sound stagier? I also didn't get to use the KingRex nearly as much as the Dayton. I had the KingRex when I had roommates and I mostly listened to headphones back then.
I came from a trends using a T2024 old school 9 watts. :) I still have my old sonic impact I bought from target for 20 bucks. The T-amp that started it all. What a crazy path.
I don't think you'll be disappointed with the sound of the three and it will be interesting to hear your listening impressions. Just be careful I guess, those 3" drivers are 30w max. Probably wouldn't want to push em too hard. Interesting speakers too. I remember whizzer cones! :) One day the infinity's will become the new deck speakers. Just like ACI, they no longer are in business. Kinda sad as they not only made good speakers but subs as well.
Your welcome, enjoy the ride.
Yeah, one of my concerns with buying an amp was not getting one with too much power. I don't think this will have too much more than the Dayton (at least as it was advertized :roll: "1000W at 100% THD and 100% explosion!"), plus I'll be using a Nuforce HDP as preamp/DAC, so if need be I'll just turn that down.
I hope my listening impressions aren't too much of a disappointment. I've tried to do some cursory A/B testing in the past mostly with the result of "uh, I think they sound... different?" Granted, it was mostly pretty faulty and not thorough or methodical. This time I won't even be able to do that. Anyway, I'm sure I'm going to like it.
I didn't understand the JB3s until I heard them. Friggin amazing. Much more expensive today, right?
You should be in for a nice upgrade from the Dayton and Kingrex.
The Dayton Tripath amp really sucks but they cleaned up their act with the TDA amps which sound pretty good.
Keep us updated!
Seth
Are the JB3s still even available here? I'd love to try out the JB3Fs? :drool:
Yeah. I always thought I was pretty clever having such a good sounding amp for under $100. After it died, though, I took it (partially) out of its case and :o if you thought the old ones looked bad... (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/class-d/163926-got-my-parts-express-dta-100-amp-today.html) Yikes. I think I figured out how they keep costs down.
I will keep you updated. I had you deliver to my girlfriend's work... However, they tried to deliver today and of course she wasn't there. She was here. :duh: Ah, well, patience is a Virtue.
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http://www.tnt-audio.com/ampli/dayton_dta100_e.html I almost bought one of these myself. I think your review of the three will be even more interesting.
I was hoping someone here would take some hires shots of the solder work of the three.
Yeah, it does look like they just started throwing solder at these amps. Tho I have to give credit where it's due, the 20 dollar Sonic Impact looks even worse than this, and it's still going strong. I use to listen to it everyday! Maybe sending those boards though a batch of solder gives the amp some color and characteristic sounds? :lol:
http://www.michael.mardis.com/sonic/images/connect-S1.jpg This was the high quality of the amp everyone loved so much! :)
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Guys -
Solder quality has nothing to do with it.
Here are some things I care about that you won't find in the super-cheap amps:
- Smart board layout
- 2 oz copper (heavy)
- X7R capacitors for decoupling
- Over-rated inductors
- Additional regulation where PSNR < 50 (ie. Tripath)
- High quality wiring
- Extra bulk capacitance
- Exotic film caps caps on outputs
Because we have so much capacitance, it requires a soft-start, which is additional expense.
One of the reasons I started Virtue was because it was clear that using high quality components didn't cost **that much** more. Well, I was sort of wrong. A high quality power supply and cases costs a **lot** more. But high quality boards are 2x or 3x what a low quality board costs -- but not cost prohibitive. There are some Chinese boards that are really good -- make no mistake.
But it so happens that with Tripath, part quality matters a lot. Not so much with other chips we've tried. A "budget" focus just doesn't work with Tripath.
Seth
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Hello Seth,
You are the one making money with selling these gems so people have great difficulty in believing you. I am not making any money just typing messages with one finger. lol please believe me. I really love my virtue sensation. It can be improved by using batteries using other caps can change its character. But i did like it from day one for sure.
The new virtue offspring isnt expensive for what is offering you.
Stop spending money on the big brands. Some of them started as small companies delivering nice goods but now most of them are makings the same stuff hyped with loads of marketing.
sincere greetings, Edward
This one of my other hobbies. It is about the same price as the little virtue. It is kind of limited edition. Same as your future virtue. Both did require big skills to make.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=98881)
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Trying to lose less money, you mean.
But wow, do you blow glass? Amazing!
Got a website where we can see more of your work?
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=98887)
http://www.kristal-glas.nl/gehele-collectie.html?dir=asc&limit=all&order=price
Hello Seth,
I wish i could!!! I did visit the company where they make this kind of artwork. Sometimes the designer and the maker are different persons. You need lots of tools to make something. BUT the big thing you need is talent and loads of it.
After making you will have to let it cool down in a special room. If you dont do that cooling down is to quick and it will break. A bit like soldering lol
In real life they even look more impressive. The first thing is posted has a twisted shape and one side is sandblasted.
I used to be into tubes so that might explain my interest for this kind of objects.
The object in this post is if i am right made by the same person as the other one. Emil Kovac from Tjech republic but i think he lives in my country. I actually did see him at work when i did visit the city of leerdam. The link is the website of the shop where i did buy my 3 glass objects.
After some more investments in audio i wanna buy a fourth one. Usually if i am in the shop the things i like appear to be the expensive ones. Without reading glasses i cannot read the price. I just walk around and pick the one i like.
The last one i did buy was a promotion. It is what they called a ''unica'' means only one made. The owner of the shop said you are lucky because this one has a discounted price now only 495 euro ( 685 $) I have had it for a year and i still love the looks.
It is like cars. At first sight a hummer looks impressive but if you see a real jeep dating from vietnam war driving around in asia you will know that is the real thing.
Sincere greetings, Edward
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No problem! You guys really piqued my interest a few years ago with the One.2 and Two.2, but were out of my budget at the time. I was always a bit disappointed when I'd go to your website and there was nothing there. I was excited to see you're back.
I also find it very encouraging that you (personally!) replied to my post within minutes. I'm also considering a NAD (though, now I'm considering it less and less), but I don't think they're even on these boards.
Very cool.
This is potentially a dumb question, but do you think there would be a noticeable difference if I ran it with a sub but without the high pass engaged? Basically, I don't want to limit myself if I ever want to upgrade my speakers to something that doesn't require a sub.
Interesting. There is somebody on here that offered to sell me their old One.2, but I have a feeling this would end up being more expensive than just getting the One.3. Also, my DIY skills are minimal.
. I'm a newb to audiophile and have been away from the forum for awhile, does an additional filter need to be added to run the ONE.3 with a subwoofer?
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Hello,
In the old days the virue amps did have a switch inside so you can switch to a cap that will give the complete frequency range to your speakers and there was a second smaller value cap that will only give 80 hertz and higher to your speakers. And at the back there is a connector to have an interlink to you active subwoofer.
The new model has just the big cap and the switch if i am right but you can order it with a 100nf cap that will give you the smaller frequency range. It is way better. The excursion of yopur speaker will be much smaller, so is the distortion. Your amp will have an easier life.
Just buy the virtue with a battery, ask Seth to install the smaller caps and find a nice active subwoofer. I am using an SVS PC-12 nsd (749$) They have cheaper ones too. If you succeed in a good '' integration '' with your main speakers it can be very nice.
Sincere greetings, Edward
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The switch is still there but stock, it does nothing because the second set of caps is not installed.
With the new heat sink configuration the just don't fit well together. I did it once for someone but it was too tight.
Upon order ask me to change your configuration.
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Hello,
In the old days the virue amps did have a switch inside so you can switch to a cap that will give the complete frequency range to your speakers and there was a second smaller value cap that will only give 80 hertz and higher to your speakers. And at the back there is a connector to have an interlink to you active subwoofer.
The new model has just the big cap and the switch if i am right but you can order it with a 100nf cap that will give you the smaller frequency range. It is way better. The excursion of yopur speaker will be much smaller, so is the distortion. Your amp will have an easier life.
Just buy the virtue with a battery, ask Seth to install the smaller caps and find a nice active subwoofer. I am using an SVS PC-12 nsd (749$) They have cheaper ones too. If you succeed in a good '' integration '' with your main speakers it can be very nice.
Sincere greetings, Edward
. Thanks! I really appreciate the clarification.
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Hello again,
You should try to have your main speakers do 80 hertz and up. If they are not to small they can do it. Have the subwoofer in the same area as your main speakers seems to be nice too. I mean not in the opposite corner.
If you do it right you wont be able to locate your subwoofer. You dont want the boomy sound that you hear in most shops.
I like my SVS so much that i wanna add a second one. I did order Dayton wireless set so i can connect my virtue without interconnect to the subwoofer.
So need two wireless sets because every subwoofer needs a receiver. Because the sensation amp will just need one transmitter to '' drive'' the 2 receivers i can put the other transmitter in my big set so i can use the same subwoofers there too.
Yesterday i did watch '' saving private Ryan '' again. Triple wow. Last time i did watch id my virtue didn't have the battery power supply. The batteries give the amp an extra set of lungs and my other supply was already a big one.
In my big set i might go for a lower cross over because my subwoofer will be in the best spot for my '' cinema set '' My big set will give the impression that it gives deep bass but that is because when listening you see big speakers but in fact it is more bas which has lots of dynamics. Minus 3 db is at 60 hertz so i need advice of the experts to know if i can cut it off lower instead of 80hertz and what value of cap to use then.
Using 100 nf instead of the big cap can make you go for a higher quality one. I am using a polystyrene 63 volts cap that i did buy in a surplus store a decade ago for 50 dollarcents or even less. Have russian 200 and 600 volts teflon and russian paper in oil( k40y-9) too. Can send Seth a pair of polystyrene and 200 volts teflon so you can give it a try. The polystyrene will surely fit the teflon one you have to know the dimensions of the present cap. The polystyrene sounds really like to me. BUT you have to find one that will kind of blend in your amp and in your system. Once you decide to buy the amp ( please get the battery too) i can send the caps free of charge to Seth.
Sincere greetings, edward
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Thank you Edward! You are a die-hard!
Low frequencies can be hard to wrangle. Doable though!
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Hello,
So SDC where should i send the caps i will have to send some WE310a tubes to France this week. Just a gift for an old audio friend. I will probably never use them.
sincere greetings, edward