AVA T7-EC - Power Cords?

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skrivis

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AVA T7-EC - Power Cords?
« Reply #100 on: 3 Apr 2005, 11:06 pm »
Quote from: Tweaker
skrivis,
Not so weird, atypical  perhaps, and wise for sure!
  Fortunatately we don't have our cars parked in a prominant place in our living rooms!
 I'm in the market for new speakers and every one I am giving serious consideration to I have my wife check out to see if she likes the looks ok. Now she is very cool about such things and I would have to bring home something pretty ugly or weird looking for her to get upset. But I do want for her to be happy with the way it looks because it will dominate th ...


I tend to be wary of imported speakers. There are many fine speakers built in the US and Canada, and the shipping costs won't be such a large portion of the manufacturing costs of the speakers. You tend to get more for your money with domestic speakers.

With my wife, I just sat her down, had her close her eyes, and just listen. She quickly "got it" and I don't get any complaints anymore. :)

Tweaker

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AVA T7-EC - Power Cords?
« Reply #101 on: 4 Apr 2005, 03:29 am »
Actually the Usher speakers are considered a tremendous value. Another AC member just recently sold his Loreleis (German design but Canadian built) for a pair of Ushers that retail for several hundred dollars less. Cheaper overseas labor more than offsets shipping costs. Haven't heard them yet myself though. No dealers in my area. They (or any other speaker I consider) will have to sound pretty spectacular to convince me to replace my VMPS RM-2's.

Dan Kolton

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AVA T7-EC - Power Cords?
« Reply #102 on: 4 Apr 2005, 03:39 pm »
What in the world do some of these recent replies have to do with power cords?  Please start a new thread with a more appropriate subject so we'll have some idea of what's being discussed before we open it.  Thanks.

budyog

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AVA T7-EC - Power Cords?
« Reply #103 on: 4 Apr 2005, 04:57 pm »
I agree with Dan! Boy did this get off track several times!

avahifi

AVA T7-EC - Power Cords?
« Reply #104 on: 5 Apr 2005, 08:01 pm »
Delete the thread because you disagree with the content?  Thats being really open minded.

I disagree with a lot of the content herein myself, but my goal is not to act as a censor at the AVA Circle.

I don't come from a "Red State."   :?

Frank Van Alstine

WEEZ

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AVA T7-EC - Power Cords?
« Reply #105 on: 5 Apr 2005, 11:37 pm »
Holy Sh*t Frank!

As if power cords and cables aren't bad enough. Let's not do politics for cripes sake.....

 :|

WEEZ

skrivis

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AVA T7-EC - Power Cords?
« Reply #106 on: 6 Apr 2005, 12:23 pm »
Quote from: WEEZ
Holy Sh*t Frank!

As if power cords and cables aren't bad enough. Let's not do politics for cripes sake.....

 :|

WEEZ


He's got a valid point though. This circle would lose its value if it was heavily moderated. It could become just a cheerleading section where no dissenting opinions are allowed.

When a thread goes off-topic, some people will just stop posting to it. Others, who are interested in the new topic will keep posting. So what's the problem? :)

It's actually much easier on Usenet since you have far more control over how things are displayed and managed. You can fork off a branch of a thread by changing the subject but maintaining the Refs. People can easily ignore an entire branch. Personally, I really don't like web-based bulletin boards, and I don't see why they've become so popular...


 :oops:  I just veered even farther off-topic.  :lol:

skrivis

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AVA T7-EC - Power Cords?
« Reply #107 on: 6 Apr 2005, 12:23 pm »
Quote from: WEEZ
Holy Sh*t Frank!

As if power cords and cables aren't bad enough. Let's not do politics for cripes sake.....

 :|

WEEZ


He's got a valid point though. This circle would lose its value if it was heavily moderated. It could become just a cheerleading section where no dissenting opinions are allowed.

When a thread goes off-topic, some people will just stop posting to it. Others, who are interested in the new topic, will keep posting. So what's the problem? :)

It's actually much easier on Usenet since you have far more control over how things are displayed and managed. You can fork off a branch of a thread by changing the subject but maintaining the Refs. People can easily ignore an entire branch. Personally, I really don't like web-based bulletin boards, and I don't see why they've become so popular...


 :oops:  I just veered even farther off-topic.  :lol:

boead

AVA T7-EC - Power Cords?
« Reply #108 on: 23 Apr 2005, 04:28 pm »
So where’s the new body?

Randog – hows it coming?

randog

AVA T7-EC - Power Cords?
« Reply #109 on: 24 Apr 2005, 04:06 am »
Don't ask me, ask Frank...

boead

AVA T7-EC - Power Cords?
« Reply #110 on: 24 Apr 2005, 03:26 pm »
Frank?

guest1632

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AVA T7-EC - Power Cords?
« Reply #111 on: 26 Apr 2005, 05:35 am »
Quote from: boead
I like my T7 preamp but I am alarmed and frightened that the effects of a PC on the components are not only ignored by rather politely labeled as placebo by the designer. Doesn’t make me feel warm and fuzzy inside and certainly doesn’t give me much comfort in regards to how intently the product is being voiced. It’s much more then a science, it’s an art! Obviously Frank Van Alstine IS listening since his products all sound good but in my opinion (and the opinion of many others that own AVA gear I have spoke ...


Hi Boead,  Well, when I bought My Purist from Curt, one of the things he did was to try and clean up the power signal before it went to the transformer. He told me he had tried some audio cords and did not hear much of a difference. Now, I don't doubt that there are differences in cords, but most of the better ones attempt to clean up the power before it hits the transformer. That's why they sound good or in some cases better. The issue with interconnects, well, that's a hard one. I won't in any way ridicule Grank's findings. I know I had heard the differences between crappy cords that come with equipment and some aftermarket cords. I haven't listened lately to the newest crops of cords. Ultimately, it is to enjoy the music and hopefully the equipment used will get out of the way and just let the music through.

Ray

guest1632

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AVA T7-EC - Power Cords?
« Reply #112 on: 26 Apr 2005, 05:46 am »
Quote from: avahifi
>The wire in the wall and the copper in the transformers are not important, it’s the small piece of wire placed from the outlet to the IEC connector just before the transformer that is affecting the sound. <

How can you "know" that the wire in the wall is not important?  I have a suggestion:  Get a really long version of your favorite $500 a foot power cord (maybe 50 feet or so) and snake your AC connection down the halls and down the stairs to the AC outlet closest to your incoming AC power box, t ...


Hi Frank,  Well, that was a nice trick.  I did on a cdplayer take the stock Flat cord that was on the player and sub it out for a cord off an old vacumm cleaner. The difference I heard was subttle at best. I figured the twisted pair might help the sound. So perhaps a dumb question, are your power cords using a twisted pair of wires or are you using just a flat parallel cord?   On the sugject of interconnects, you need to repost your challenge to the various vendors here on AC in one of the other circles about your cables and see what you get? We have some manufacturers that make some supposedly good cables. Just some thoughts. I know for a fact that Wayne's cables on your system show differences. Ask Tyson about that one. Why is that?

Ray

guest1632

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AVA T7-EC - Power Cords?
« Reply #113 on: 26 Apr 2005, 05:52 am »
Quote from: skrivis
Quote from: boead
However, I was VERY disappointed in its build quality. Not that its bad but rather that its ugly! It’s the ugliest piece in my system, so much so that I have a hard time with. And it doesn’t have an IEC connector.


I would prefer silver faceplates, but nobody was buying them so AVA went with black.

The markings are quite visible, the worksmanship is excellent, and they're quite functional.

What's not to like?

Besides that, I don't sit around and admire the look of my system, I listen to music. Isn't that the idea?


When I told my wife I wanted to spend $500 for a CDPLayer, I thought she was gonna come unglued. lol. We men when it seems to come to audio, as a general statement are not so much in to the looks as the sound of it.

Ray

guest1632

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AVA T7-EC - Power Cords?
« Reply #114 on: 26 Apr 2005, 06:35 am »
Quote from: boead
Nathanm, when you said perception I assumed you were talking about the perception in its performance/sound. I have no ‘sonic’ perception problem, it sounds great. Are you insinuating that I believe it sounds worse then it does because of how it looks? Are you insane? I have a hard time with its looks. I said that. Its perception is that it is a cheap and//or old opice of stereo ware. I’m sorry for being so honest, From talking to other Van Alstine owners via email over the past few months we’ve laughed at “ ...


Well, when you go in to any particular brand circle, you will have those people who are extreme loyalists. "How dare you knock brand X?" I haven't seen his gear. I just hope the box say for the preamps aren't just a flimpsy case. Yeah, it's functional, but cheap. Now before anyone here gets the hackles up, it's just my imagination working here. I have seen over my 30 Plus years messing around in this field stuff that looks homemade, but sounded great. My Purist, for example weighs about 25 pounds. Partly it's because he did not put the stuff in a cheesy bendable case like a lot of stuff from Rad Shack.  I completely understand where you are coming from.

Ray

skrivis

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AVA T7-EC - Power Cords?
« Reply #115 on: 26 Apr 2005, 01:06 pm »
Quote from: Ray Bronk
Hi Frank,  Well, that was a nice trick.  I did on a cdplayer take the stock Flat cord that was on the player and sub it out for a cord off an old vacumm cleaner. The difference I heard was subttle at best. I figured the twisted pair might help the sound. So perhaps a dumb question, are your power cords using a twisted pair of wires or are you using just a flat parallel cord?   On the sugject of interconnects, you need to repost your challenge to the various vendors here on AC in one of the other circles abo ...


<sigh>

From another circle:

Quote from: ginger


Brushing of the Fairy Dust (not to mention the Bull Dust).

The mains transformer is a step down transformer. The impedances in the primary reflect into the secondary according to the SQUARE of the turns ratio. Impedances in the primary are INSIGNIFICANT when reflected into the secondary, compared to secondary wire resistance etc. (An extra 0.1 ohm in the primary will reflect into the secondary as about an extra 0.01 Ohm).

Its bunk - those who spend $100 on a "flash" power cord report improved sonics because they expect to hear improved sonics and are therefore convinced that they do so, NOT because the were any.

The thing that does give you some improvement is keeping mains noise out of your amp. So chuck that cheap IEC mains socket and replace it with a filtered socket - the one with the most agressive filter you can find.

Do NOT under any circumstances remove the mains fuse(s) - this is BAD advice and in worst case conditions is DANGEROUS advice.

I suppose I should appologise to those that I offend with this post and I probably would - if I gave a rats.



So tell me again why you want to tweak power cords.... :)

guest1632

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AVA T7-EC - Power Cords?
« Reply #116 on: 27 Apr 2005, 02:57 am »
Quote from: skrivis
So tell me again why you want to tweak power cords.... :)


Hi Skrivis,  Well, like I stated in another post, and yours agrees with me that a power cord set up to "clean"/condition  the line before it gets to the transformer would be the only reason I could honestly think of to have a different cord. My little experience with the cdplayer showed a tiny difference if that. I am no expert here, so I'll rely on others whose opinions I would trust like Curt and Frank. I don't have enough experience to know about power cords. Now interconnects, that I can tell you about. But here to, I will for the most part keep my silence. Frank's observations has led him to believe that a pair of Rad Shack cables are as good as it gets. If that is how he feels, and he is the electrical engineer, who am I to argue. We all have our opinions and biases, and that's ok. What's important here is to ... in the end listen to the music and ENJOY IT.
 
Ray

boead

AVA T7-EC - Power Cords?
« Reply #117 on: 27 Apr 2005, 01:36 pm »
Quote from: Ray Bronk
… that a power cord set up to "clean"/condition the line before it gets to the transformer would be the only reason I could honestly think of to have a different cord.
A power cord isn‘t going to clean the AC, what different wire doe3ws is change impedance curves which directly effects the signature of the sound. It’s more of a ‘synergy’ between cord and transformer. What is bass heavy on a CD Player may be just right on another CD Player or Amp.

Quote from: Ray Bronk
…Frank's observations has led him to believe that a pair of Rad Shack cables are as good as it gets.
I just picked up two pairs of RatShack Gold Interconnects for my tape deck ($20/pair) and compared them to my MIT’s – WOW, not even similar! A near deaf imbecile can hear the difference!

Quote from: Ray Bronk
… If that is how he feels, and he is the electrical engineer, who am I to argue.
Who are you to argue?!? Do you have two ears that basically work? If the answer is yes then you qualify as much as Frank! Because Frank knows circuit design doesn’t mean he has good taste. Hell, he might think brown polyester leisure suites are hip! Because he doesn’t ‘believe’ (or doesn’t want to believe) that anything is much different that a $20 pair of RatShack cables, isn’t proof-positive of its truth. Trust your own senses, there the ones you listen with, not Franks.

Quote from: Ray Bronk
… We all have our opinions and biases, and that's ok. What's important here is to ... in the end listen to the music and ENJOY IT.

Absolutely, I just hate it when people tell me I’m a moron to ‘believe’ or that what I trust (my ears and brain) are being fooled by placebo. That’s just bullshit!
And yes, I listen to an enormous amount of music. I could listen to an old Sony walkman and a cheap pair of headphones if I had to but fortunately I don’t.

Short Story:
One of my dogs (a Boxer) nearly ate my Sennheiser HD600’s, I guess she wanted a little snack! I fixed them but had to replace the cord which is thinner then kite string. I made up a set of headphone cables from some silver plated copper wire in a Teflon jacket, I used a good quality Switchcraft ¼’ jack and PET insulation. After breaking them in for 100 hours, I brought them to a friend last night. He has the very same Sennheiser HD600’s with a ZuCable (cost about $200), he also has the stock cord and a nice headphone amp (Class-A, SET (EL84’s)). We listened to the two identical sets of headphones with two entirely different headphone cables. My opinion was that they sounded like two entirely different headphones. He thought so too. Later that night a couple of other friends came by and I asked them to give them a listen. BOTH were astonished how different the two headphones sounded. We all agreed, with no question (NO placebo!), that the wire not only made a difference but that it was so dramatic as to make the same phones sounds completely different. They both sounded very nice. It would be a difficult decision to choose which I liked better.

skrivis

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AVA T7-EC - Power Cords?
« Reply #118 on: 27 Apr 2005, 04:08 pm »
Quote from: boead
Absolutely, I just hate it when people tell me I’m a moron to ‘believe’ or that what I trust (my ears and brain) are being fooled by placebo. That’s just bullshit!
And yes, I listen to an enormous amount of music. I could listen to an old Sony walkman and a cheap pair of headphones if I had to but fortunately I don’t.


I don't know what you're hearing or why, but I certainly haven't meant to imply you're a moron.

I do feel there are better places to spend your money than cables...

In essence, we can try to correct big problems or little ones. Engineering says that there are big problems still existing in our stereo systems. Trying different wires and cables and such is targetting the small problems, or maybe even the point at which the problems or effects are arguable.

Why not target the still-existing big problems? It's going to make more of a difference.

orthobiz

AVA T7-EC - Power Cords?
« Reply #119 on: 27 Apr 2005, 11:59 pm »
About Frank VA: "Hell, he might think brown polyester leisure suites are hip!"

I don't think I've ever seen a picture of Frank, but I'd venture to guess he's a better dresser than James Bongiorno in the current Stereophile!

Hey Frank, post a picture of the design team on the website! How about pics inside the lab/factory? Anyone else agree?

biz