[1PsychProf]

I'm new over here on AC from the Asylum.  I just sent my T7 pre-amp back to AVA as I was having weird breathing from my woofer, which, I am told, is being caused by fluctuating DC voltage from the pre-amp.  Does anyone know if AVA is fairly quick with their repairs and return of products?

Also, I noticed that when I packed up my unit, the T7 has a non-detachable power cord.  That is one of the aspects of my system that I have neglected, and as such was about to order several of the Chris VH Flavor cords.  Does anyone know why AVA did not make their cords interchangeable?  I suppose they consider after-market cords a waste?  Has anyone tried any other PC's on their AVA preamps?  Just curious!

[skrivis]

I'm new over here on AC from the Asylum.  I just sent my T7 pre-amp back to AVA as I was having weird breathing from my woofer, which, I am told, is being caused by fluctuating DC voltage from the pre-amp.  Does anyone know if AVA is fairly quick with their repairs and return of products?

In my experience, they've been quite fast most of the time. However, they've just got so many resources there and I've also seen them get pretty backed-up. So I'd say they're fast, but your wait will depend upon how many people are ahead of you.

Also, I noticed that when I packed up my unit, the T7 has a non-detachable power cord.  That is one of the aspects of my system that I have neglected, and as such was about to order several of the Chris VH Flavor cords. ...

Skip the fancy replacement power cord and buy some CDs or LPs with the money you save. You'll enjoy the music far more than some power cord.

[WEEZ]

I do not want to start a war over power cords, because even if there IS a sonic improvement- it would be subtle, IMHO.

That said, a hardwired cord will ALWAYS be a better CONNECTION than a push on IEC connector. ALWAYS. So....

maybe while the amp is in the shop, Frank would hardwire your cord into the equipment for you?

WEEZ

[skrivis]

I do not want to start a war over power cords, because even if there IS a sonic improvement- it would be subtle, IMHO.

That said, a hardwired cord will ALWAYS be a better CONNECTION than a push on IEC connector. ALWAYS. So....

maybe while the amp is in the shop, Frank would hardwire your cord into the equipment for you?

WEEZ

It already is. AVA gear has hard-wired AC cords.

I'm skeptical that the difference between a socketed cord and hard-wired cord is audible or meaningful. Maybe I should get busy and solder up all the connections in my computer so it will work better. Maybe I can have that Boulder guy toss in some random wonderful parts while I'm at it.

Maybe I shouldn't make fun of other people's beliefs, but a power cord is a power cord. It has to be of a certain minimum gauge for the load it will be expected to carry (length also affects this), it has to conform to the standards of the country it will be used in, and you hope it's of good enough quality that it will be safe to use. Other than that, there's not much mystery involved. The expected operating environment (indoors/outdoors, stationary or mobile, temperature extremes, presence of moisture or solvents, etc.) can also govern the choice of cable, but home audio systems won't likely see this sort of thing.

[WEEZ]

I agree about your theory on power cords. You apparantly misread my point. I think I said that the "improvements" (meaning-if any) would be subtle (meaning an aftermarket cord).

And after almost 30 years in the electric industry- I stand by my statement that a hardwired connection is always better than a push-on or mechanical connection. Period.

WEEZ

[boead]

I listened to the T7 for some time and got very use to its sound. I then cut off the cord and put on an IEC. I rolled a Harmonic Tech AC-10 and an AC-11 as well as a Virtual Dynamic Power-3. The difference in sound was dramatic and highly significant. Sorry if you don’t believe so, my ears tell me so and I trust them to anything else.

I won’t say better or worse, that’s a matter of opinion. But I will say that the bass response was deeper (more extended) and fuller with the Harmonic Tech AC-10, no questioning about it. It also has a somewhat wider soundstage and is more transparent.
The Harmonic Tech AC-11 is also very good and very similar, it’s also cheaper. I would consider having a cord permanently installed into the unit properly, I’m not sure I want to commit the AC-10 to it since I like it on my CD Player and its not cheap. However, I may have the AC-11 installed.

The stock cord definitely (hard wired) sounds thinner in the bass and mid-bass and has a smaller soundstage. It’s obvious!! I would NOT put the stock cord back on my T7, I’d sell it first and buy something else. Many preamps and amps today don’t even come with a power cord because the impact on its sound is so dramatic and significant and dependent on personal taste, the manufacturer doesn’t bother even trying to pick one for you.

And power conditions degrade sound quality!! I’ve tried many, some expensive and some cheap and they all suck!

[aln]

Would you consider making a detachable power cord an option on new power amps & preamps?

[skrivis]

I agree about your theory on power cords. You apparantly misread my point. I think I said that the "improvements" (meaning-if any) would be subtle (meaning an aftermarket cord).

And after almost 30 years in the electric industry- I stand by my statement that a hardwired connection is always better than a push-on or mechanical connection. Period.

WEEZ

I didn't realize that you were saying "if any" there.  



If we're looking at a piece of wire versus a piece of wire with a set of connectors in the middle, I'd agree that the plain wire is better as a general rule.

(If we're talking soldered versus mechanical connection, I might disagree.)

But I do have trouble with the idea that a detachable power cord will be inferior to a hardwired one in typical audio equipment. Or that it will be possible to discern any difference with properly designed equipment (like AVA).

So, yes, a straight wire is better than a wire with connectors in the middle, but I submit that the difference may be meaningless in many cases.

[budyog]

I must say that this "Power cord" replacement discussion in regards to AVA equipment has been a thought in my mind also. I have know about Frank and his philosophie andhighly respect his opinion for many years and own his wonderfull equipment that will be with me for many years to come.

Many of us have been down the speaker wire road and most seem to agree that the heavier gauge the better, which I, many years ago have become a believer that it is true. If you compare it to a road, try having a lot of traffic go down an alley vs the same amount of traffic go down a 4 lane freeway.

I do believe a heavier power cord can help with the amplifier more than the preamplifier due to the power requirments.

I certainly will not spend the ridiculous amount of money a lot of these cable companies are asking for their fancy dancy cables. There is definitly a point of no return, but I will in the near future, just for fun replace my original small gauge cords to a heavier cords, starting with the amp and post my results.

I must say one more thing, in regards to power conditionors. I had a hard time believing in them also until a very long time audio friend of mine who got me started in this audio enjoyment hobby moved on to installing huge home theater systems in the hundreds of thousands of dollars all over the world and said to me over and over that I must get a Richard Gray Power Supply 400 line conditionor. I do live in the heart of the city and believe that the power coming into my home is dirty. I finally broke down and got one and I could not believe what a difference it made to the overall sound. Everything seemed to open up and breath. I was so impressed, I bought another one.

I am amazed that thier is no discusion about RGPS on this forum. In my opinion, they are worth every penny.

[skrivis]

Many of us have been down the speaker wire road and most seem to agree that the heavier gauge the better, which I, many years ago have become a believer that it is true. If you compare it to a road, try having a lot of traffic go down an alley vs the same amount of traffic go down a 4 lane freeway.

I do believe a heavier power cord can help with the amplifier more than the preamplifier due to the power requirments.

My feeling is that a _heavy enough_ gauge is what's needed.

I use plain old zip cord and interconnects from Radio Shack. I just haven't seen anything to suggest that all the magic wires are more than snake oil. A friend once brought over several thousand dollars worth of fancy wires and made me try them. After verifying that they weren't going to break the jacks on my equipment, I tried them. I heard no difference, except with some weird unshielded interconnects, and there I heard a difference. They were picking up tons of hum from the fluorescent lights in the next room...

I guess I'm the resident Audio Skeptic.  

[boead]

If we're looking at a piece of wire versus a piece of wire with a set of connectors in the middle, I'd agree that the plain wire is better as a general rule.

But I do have trouble with the idea that a detachable power cord will be inferior to a hardwired one in typical audio equipment.

Unfortunately that logic doesn’t apply. It seems it should but it doesn’t!

If that was the case, then what about all the internal connections, have you ever looked inside your preamp? The power cord wire starts and stops and goes through a fairly horrible; switch and so on. With that logic, it would be best to remove the switch too and the accessory outlets and the darn fuse for that matter.

The issues of a ‘break’ in the cord (powers path) is entirely irrelevant, IMOP! The cord changes the impedance and such on the power supply which is altering the sound of the unit. Current is being broken and traveling through miles and miles of wire to your house and then throughout. It has noting to do with the path of the current; it has to do with the short piece of wire that is directly affecting the transformer and subsequently the circuit within closest to the component. Without getting carried away, you just need to insert the wire (power cord) as close to the transformer as possible and it WILL affect the sound for better or worse. Hopefully for the better but that’s a matter of taste.

[boead]

Budyog,

The thickness (gauge) of the cable doesn’t equate to better sound. You may be very disappointed and disillusioned if you take that approach in choosing a power cord or any IC for that matter.

Some of the best sounding power cords I have heard have been 18awg. Mapleshade makes a VERY highly regarded power cord that is very thin (http://www.mapleshaderecords.com/tweaks/powercord.php).

Very many people LOVE CAT-5 or CAT-6 wire for speaker cables at 24awg (I don’t but I understand what they like about it).

The only way to choose a power cord or any cable is to listen to them.  Companies like www.usedcables.com will let you borrow cables for a tiny fee. I’ve listened to literally and without exaggeration tens of thousands of dollars in cables and was able to decide which were to my taste.

The Richard Gray power station is NOT a power conditioner or filter, they are AC chokes. And yes, they sound good. I have tried MANY power conditioners and I currently use a Furman PM-8 Series-2 for my digital gear and preamp. It does very subtle filtering and conditioning and does drop noise floor and adds a nice darkness to the source without affecting soundstage very much. However, I have never heard an amp sound right through a power conditioner. The Richard Gray chokes can be beneficial and again and like always, it’s a matter of taste.

[boead]

Skrivis,

Don’t take offence and unfortunately there is no other way of putting this.

If you can’t hear the difference then that doesn’t mean that it’s not making a difference. First, your gear may not be revealing enough to display the difference, this also means your not hearing all that is recorded -or- your ears are not capable of hearing the differences either by defect or lack of caring, could be physical or mental. In your case and others like you, you should likely not bother with Hi-Fi gear, it’s a waste of your hard earned money, just get something that is a good value at BestBuy and be happy, buy more music or whatever.

For the tens of thousands of people like me that CAN hear the subtle differences in everything (it’s more of a curse then anything else, trust me!) audio related, I thank heavens for manufactures like Harmonic Technologies for ‘listening’ and ‘finding’ wire that potentially improves the sound of my music.

I’m sure your friend was disgusted with you when you told him you didn’t hear the difference. Since he ‘got you’ into the hobby, it’s likely you didn’t care much to start off with.

I’m sure your disgusted with me now but that’s the cold truth that most people don’t bother saying.

Companies like Bryston don’t listen either. The believe that it’s all placebo – LOL!! They need a reality check too. Plecebo?! Maybe for some, but certainly not for me and many like me. I’ll be the first to say, that made no discernable difference. I can be honest with myself. Magic jumping beans placed on top of my CDP doesn’t make a difference no matter how many people tell it does, but if you snuck into my listening room and swapped out my cables, I’d notice it!

Ok, now you can scold me and tell me what an ass I am. You won’t be the first and certainly you won’t be the last!

[budyog]

I agree Boead, it is all a "Matter of Taste". I do believe you don't have to spend the kind of money on power cords/IC's like some people are. there are many other area's to put that money to get bigger improvement's.
It also depends on length to gauge. It can be a very inexspensive change of sound, which make's it fun. From my expierence, my 12 gauge Beldon sound's better than my 16 gauge that I use to use.

Whatever the RGPS is, it makes my system "Sing" like never before!  

  Skrivis wrote    

My feeling is that a _heavy enough_ gauge is what's needed.

I think that sum's it up! Fun topic

[WEEZ]

Sheesh!

All I can say is, if I needed a $500 set of cables and a $400 power cord to make my $1300 pre-amp sound better, my wife would insist I get out of this hobby and she'd probably be right   !

Like I said, I didn't mean to start a war over cords, but it looks like I did a pretty good job   !

Have fun, y'all,

WEEZ

[budyog]

Weez,
 You didn't start the war. This war has been going on and will continue to go on for years to come. Kinda like the middle east!  This is what this is all about.
I look at this the same way. If it cost more to connect the equipment together than the equipment itself, something is wrong and this would really suck!
I will change my cords to a heavier gauge no matter what enyone else say's and like I said, will post my results from my ears only!

Why not, it is not an expensive thing to do! Cheers

[boead]

Look at it like this; cables are no more or less a component to anything else you have. For each component, there are a set number of cables required. The cost of the cables in total should equal the cost of a component.

Example:
Amp: $1500
CDP: $2400
Speakers: $1600
Preamp: $1900

Average cost per component: $1875

Required cabling:
3 power cords, 1 pair of speaker cables, 2 interconnects.
Total cost: $1875 (allowance)

In my case:
Harmonic Tech AC-10: $350 1.5meter
Harmonic Tech AC-11: $200 1.5 meter
Kimber PK10 GOLD: $300 (2.5 meters)
MIT S3 Interconnects: $700 (2 sets, 1 meter each)
Speaker Cables (Litz Type-2 DIY): $150
Total: $1700 *

*note: If I had bought a pair of MIT S3 speaker cables the additional cost would have been $400 ($550 set total) making the grand total $2100. This is over budget based on the cost of a single component (average). However, the models chosen were slightly more expensive because I purchased used at a discount. If I had chosen the Harmonic Tech AC-11 for each component, I would have been right on budget.

See my point?

If you bought a new BMW, would you think it was ridiculous to spend $1200 on a set of tires when you can go to sears and get their house special for $65 each!

Keep it in perspective!



BTW: This is the most activity this site has seen in 6 months!

[1PsychProf]

>>>If you bought a new BMW, would you think it was ridiculous to spend $1200 on a set of tires when you can go to sears and get their house special for $65 each!

Keep it in perspective!<<<

I would agree with your idea of treating cabling as another expense but I also think that the idea of diminishing returns kicks in when you get close to $100 or $150 for a power cord or interconnect.  I don't care how expensive a component is, I just can't see spending much more than this for a cable.  I don't know why the money we lay out for a cable, must be "in proportion" to the price of a particular component.

To use your BMS analogy.... it looks like for one power cord and one cable, you are spending nearly 1/3 the cost of each component.  If you bought a $60k BMW, would you spend $20k on tires?

[avahifi]

Hey 1PsychProf, quit that!  We have not even received your preamp yet to fix.  Geeze.

Give us a chance hey.

Frank

[WEEZ]

Wow Boead! $1700 worth of CABLES in your system? That's more than you paid for your Arcam cd player, right? Amazing.

So, how you liking that Arcam? Nice, huh?

The equipment will make more difference (read improvement) than the cables and cords. Even the golden eared reviewers have said as much if you read their reviews carefully.

That said, cables and cords can 'fine-tune' the system. I'll conceed that. Some juice up the sound; some relax it; and some ruin it. A good cable will be one you can't hear.

WEEZ