Bicycling Off-Road

DaveC113 · « **Reply #880 on:** 27 Jul 2012, 10:14 pm »

Quote from: J-Pak on 27 Jul 2012, 09:33 pm

I am thinking about either a Stumpjumper FSR Comp 29 or or the 26 version. I do some all mountain riding, and I'm not exactly sure if I'll get the fine control I like with 29" wheels. I've only ridden one 29" bike (SC Tallboy LT) and I preferred the Blunt LT when taking tight turns, especially when combined with downhill sections. My gut tells me there was a geometry mismatch with the Tallboy though.

Anyone have any thoughts? I noticed that most pure all mountain bikes are 26"

I'm annoyed to have missed a Specialized demo day

Really happy to see a prospering mountain biking thread, the other hifi forum I hang out on is all roadies!

My preference for an AM bike is a coil shock (CCDB or Vivid Air would be ok), about 160mm travel, and a Fox 36/Lyric. A bike like the NomadC can be built under 30 lbs and there isn't too much difference in efficiency vs a Blur LT, but a bike with a coil shock and 36 fork is much, much more capable on the downhill. 3 of my friends got a NomadC/36 this year and they are all much faster both up and down the hill vs. what they were riding previously. 2 were on Intense Tracer VPs and one on a Transition girls' FR bike, forget which model.

The 29er thing is a personal preference, I like 26ers for AM but would love to have a light 29er for max efficiency and buff trails. However, I ride DH and expect my AM bike to be able to navigate the same kind of terrain and be able to jump well. This pretty much rules out 29ers and air shocks.

JoshK · « **Reply #881 on:** 29 Jul 2012, 04:40 am »

I don't have to fortune to live out west, so given our trail systems out here, I have a 5" FS 26er and a 29'er HT. I am slowly migrating the 29'er to be more XC oriented a lighter. The 26'er I ride more often, admittedly. Its just more fun.

I went out today on a decent, although not super long ride, with a coworker. It was his first time out and I lent him my 29'er. I was practising skinnies, we have a lot. I cleared a few I hadn't cleared before. One that is roughly 50' long, but rises up to 4.5' and is only 6-8" wide. The last time I did it I rolled down the hill sideways (from about 4' up) and have bruises all over to show for it, so I was proud to clean it today.

I think I hooked my coworker, so I have a riding buddy now. He was doing quite well as I took him on some pretty advance intermediate trails and he walked a couple bridges but otherwise didn't complain.

My local trail has a lot of skinnies and a lot of stunts. Its fun to practise your balance.

DaveC113 · « **Reply #882 on:** 29 Jul 2012, 04:56 am »

Skinnies are my kriptonite. I am currently overthinking it and have gotten worse

. I'd rather try and clear a 50' jump than ride an elevated skinny less than 12" wide. We have some wooden bridges and stunts at CO resorts but no real skinnies, except for maybe one short one at Keystone. There are also lots of epic rides in CO it would be nice to have that 26 lb FS 29er for too...

JoshK · « **Reply #883 on:** 29 Jul 2012, 04:14 pm »

Went out with a smaller group of riders organized by a local bike shop today. The leader was big into doing the stunt work and seeing someone clean some gnarly stuff gave me inspiration. I cleaned 3 that I've never been able to before (not high, just roller coaster and turns in them). Did a huge log ride that was a good 5' in diameter and maybe 80' long. Price of failure for that one was a little higher. Did a few 2'-3' drops and lots and lots more skinnies....one nearly 100' long down a hill over a ravine. Confidence inspiring day for me.

JoshK · « **Reply #884 on:** 29 Jul 2012, 04:32 pm »

To give you an idea of one of the trails we did, called Dr. Quads (for the serious pain in the quads from the climbs, or dr. quadripeligite if you fail) here is a youtube vid. Unfortunately most all the stunts get modified often, so they are a bit different now then then. For instance, the section around the 4 minute mark is way gnarlier now (didn't ride those, cause the price of failure was huge).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xo1JYn3YWjA

Here is the one that I probably wouldn't have done if I had thought about it first, but I was carrying some speed because I was going the other direction. All these vids are in the wrong direction. The right way requires you to climb a 140' of steep switchbacks and then you come down a narrow twisty trail into this section.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhEwOskyZhE

Actually this one has the best demonstration of the section I rode today, same as I rode it in the right direction.... Otherwise boring, but the section for sec 40-130 has it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lrxj2x5wCSk

JoshK · « **Reply #885 on:** 29 Jul 2012, 04:50 pm »

This one....around 6.27 to 7.30 shows the fun stuff on our easier trail.

http://youtu.be/IkA6VkkHDDk

Right at 7:15, you call see what they call the neck-breaker. It doesn't look very hard in the photo, but they built it a bit higher (about 4' at the end) and extended it. I did it the other way the first time (hard way) and that is the one I tumbled down the hill on. Yesterday I cleared it the first time going the way it shows in the video.

At about 8:55, that one was shown to me today where to find it, its kinda hidden and the filmer cut the entry. Its a blast cause its kinda steep, although you can't tell in the video.

Levi · « **Reply #886 on:** 29 Jul 2012, 10:12 pm »

I respectfully refuse to do those jumps, skinnies, rollovers etc. The price of making a mistake is just too high. I don't recover fast anymore.

Great job Josh. It looks like you are definitely increasing your skills. The power of the group!

JoshK · « **Reply #887 on:** 29 Jul 2012, 10:33 pm »

I am finding skinnies a lot easier. I don't do the ones more than 3 or 4' up for the reason of danger (usually unless they are wider), but I am pretty good at bailing if needed. There are two tips that really helped me out a lot. #1 always look 4' in front of your tire and *always* where you want to go and NEVER where you don't. #2 take it with some speed, doesn't have to be super fast but going slow is death.

If you think about it, can you ride 50' yellow line on a road going super super slow? Some can but its a lot harder than riding with a bit of momentum. Also another big key reason is with speed, you are much much more likely to be able to bunny hop off if you are veering off instead of endo'ing. That makes bailing much easier and safer.

jackman · « **Reply #888 on:** 29 Jul 2012, 11:58 pm »

Great advice Josh. I haven't dine skinnies for a while but the ones in the videos are about my speed. Those crazy ones the guys in BC do are beyond my skill and danger level.

I like those Toronto trails because they are all dirt and grass. In Colorado, there are too many rocks off the trail and I manage to find them when I crash. My favorite biking was the downhill trails at KEystone Colorado. Fast strip hills with lots of switchbacks.

We had some nice trails around here a few years back. Some skinnys, log jumps and decent technical single track but they ripped them out and installed yuppy friendly wide limestone trails. I haven't been back since. You guys make me want to bust out my old mountainbike.

coke · « **Reply #889 on:** 30 Jul 2012, 12:01 am »

There aren't many skinnies on my local trails, but when I do ride them it's always standing up with my weight toward the back. Makes it very easy to manual off.

I've also switched back to riding flats recently. I have a LOT more confidence on skinnies now than i did when riding clipped in

JoshK · « **Reply #890 on:** 30 Jul 2012, 12:33 am »

Yeah, Toronto's "hero dirt" and clay based dirt is a bit forgiving, although it is hard pack, it's not like landing on rocks. NNJ was all rocks.

I also put TwentySix flats and ride 5-10's when riding stunts. I have no confidence when clipped in.

DaveC113 · « **Reply #891 on:** 30 Jul 2012, 12:45 am »

Quote from: jackman on 29 Jul 2012, 11:58 pm

I like those Toronto trails because they are all dirt and grass. In Colorado, there are too many rocks off the trail and I manage to find them when I crash. My favorite biking was the downhill trails at KEystone Colorado. Fast strip hills with lots of switchbacks.

Keystone is awesome, although Winter Park is killing them for jump trails, they finished Rainmaker last year which is about 1k vertical and about 80 jumps ranging from 20-45 feet, all really well built. Keystone kills WP for tech and old-school DH style trails, although they put in some interesting wood features on Evenflow and East Forest/Sanitarium.

The corkscrew is wide as a sidewalk, but it's far enough up there to have some good pucker factor:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFJAD6bSa8o

And the Helter switchback is sketchy, the sideslope and the switchback are much steeper than they appear:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNZ0X9orC6o

None of the vids are mine, I can ride the switchback...

DaveC113 · « **Reply #892 on:** 30 Jul 2012, 12:50 am »

Quote from: JoshK on 29 Jul 2012, 04:32 pm

To give you an idea of one of the trails we did, called Dr. Quads (for the serious pain in the quads from the climbs, or dr. quadripeligite if you fail) here is a youtube vid. Unfortunately most all the stunts get modified often, so they are a bit different now then then. For instance, the section around the 4 minute mark is way gnarlier now (didn't ride those, cause the price of failure was huge).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xo1JYn3YWjA

Here is the one that I probably wouldn't have done if I had thought about it first, but I was carrying some speed because I was going the other direction. All these vids are in the wrong direction. The right way requires you to climb a 140' of steep switchbacks and then you come down a narrow twisty trail into this section.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhEwOskyZhE

Actually this one has the best demonstration of the section I rode today, same as I rode it in the right direction.... Otherwise boring, but the section for sec 40-130 has it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lrxj2x5wCSk

Looks like fun, there isn't much wood on regular trails around here, they are all multi-use and the politics of trail building is way behind a lot of other places. Most land managers think any sort of stunt or jump belongs at a resort.

I did clear a 50' 12" wide skinny today, it was low but goes over a mine tailings pile which contains various toxins including mercury. If you fall off it's no big deal but you don't want to eat mud right there...

JoshK · « **Reply #893 on:** 30 Jul 2012, 01:22 am »

That corkscrew did make me pucker a bit...just watcing it. I'd do it, cause its wide, but its pretty high. On Dr. Quads today, we came across some that we didn't do, but had planks up the first 1/3 then a 6" skinny log 5' up over a 40' gap.....nope. The fail mode on that isn't nice.

I ordered a dropper seat today. We have some pretty steep and tight switchbacks that require you to get your whole body over the back tire while riding the brakes and even kicking the back around to switch. Not nearly as rocky as those switchbacks you show, we have tons of roots, little rocks.

We have one kinda sketchy spot call Doobatorium that goes down a pretty steep ledge, semi long, steep on either side and its is nothing but a huge field of roots. I've done it a few times clean but you are concentrating pretty hard.

DaveC113 · « **Reply #894 on:** 30 Jul 2012, 01:33 am »

Quote from: JoshK on 30 Jul 2012, 01:22 am

I ordered a dropper seat today.

It's a game changer, I've had my RS Reverb for about 2 years now and couldn't imagine riding without it now. It's a much bigger upgrade than I could have imagined, I use it all the time, much more than if I had to stop. I carry my standard seatpost with me in the toolbag that stays in the car just in case there is a malfunction though.

Have you guys seem Mondraker / Fabian Barel's new Forward Geometry? I would like to try it... I already have a strong preference for a long top tube and wheelbase with a short stem.

http://vimeo.com/45760274

JoshK · « **Reply #895 on:** 30 Jul 2012, 01:53 am »

If you want to talk about pucker factor.... watch this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xr5FGOKY3RM&feature=related

That bike looks kinda interesting. I really don't know a lot about geometry right now. I just know my Giant TranceX handles really well and actually climbs better than the X-caliber HT.

J-Pak · « **Reply #896 on:** 30 Jul 2012, 04:08 pm »

Quote from: DaveC113 on 27 Jul 2012, 10:14 pm

My preference for an AM bike is a coil shock (CCDB or Vivid Air would be ok), about 160mm travel, and a Fox 36/Lyric. A bike like the NomadC can be built under 30 lbs and there isn't too much difference in efficiency vs a Blur LT, but a bike with a coil shock and 36 fork is much, much more capable on the downhill. 3 of my friends got a NomadC/36 this year and they are all much faster both up and down the hill vs. what they were riding previously. 2 were on Intense Tracer VPs and one on a Transition girls' FR bike, forget which model.

The 29er thing is a personal preference, I like 26ers for AM but would love to have a light 29er for max efficiency and buff trails. However, I ride DH and expect my AM bike to be able to navigate the same kind of terrain and be able to jump well. This pretty much rules out 29ers and air shocks.

Thanks Dave, I don't actually do all AM riding, most of the riding is probably technical/advanced trail. But I do some AM when I am not riding with friends, but it would not comprise the majority of my riding, which is why I was looking for a bike with a bit more travel like the Stumpy FSRs while still remaining light enough for climbing or flats. I think 120-140 up front is about all I'd need for now. I plan to replace the wheels with whatever bike I get with some custom tubeless ones from a friend down south. I'll see if I can ride a Nomad (or carbon) next time SC is in town. My guess is they'll be out of my budget though.

My budget is under $3000 purchased in the off season (not factoring in the custom wheels), and I'll gladly take any savings below that to put towards vinyl

JoshK · « **Reply #897 on:** 31 Jul 2012, 12:13 am »

So I got my new wheels on my 29'er on there last night. I dropped 1.85lbs of rotational weight for ~$750/shipped. I consider that reasonable, especially considering the hubs that came stock are known to be crap. My Bike is black with green accents, so green CK hubs adds a tiny bit of bling. Went tubeless as I love my tubeless setup on my 26'er. Dropped another .5lb on the thompson seatpost and WTB saddle. I picked up an XTR crankset cheap second hand which i'll put on soon and a second hand but lightly used SRAM 990 cassette (the one that was on there was a beast). So I didn't go crazy but am shedding a few lbs, maybe not 5, but that is all I cared for.

coke · « **Reply #898 on:** 31 Jul 2012, 01:44 am »

Anyone have experience with a niner jet9? How much abuse can the frame take? How about small jumps and drops? A used one came up for sale locally. Not quite what I had in mind, but a lot cheaper than buying new.

Opinions appreciated on this.

2010 Jet 9, rp23 rear shock, fox float 100mm fork, tapered with 15mm
$1,100

vs.

2012 new jet or rip 9 with rockshox revelation forks. $1,700

I do all my own maintenance, so service from the shop with the new frame is not a factor

JoshK · « **Reply #899 on:** 31 Jul 2012, 01:58 am »

The wrong bike is still too expensive even if it is cheap. Same with audio.