$3-5k/pr, Floorstander or Monitors?

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. Read 24386 times.

saeyedoc

$3-5k/pr, Floorstander or Monitors?
« on: 19 Apr 2012, 02:45 pm »
Thinking about replacing my '87 Vandersteen 2Cs at some point. 5.1 system with Vandersteen V2W sub in a 25x23' room with the listening position about 1/2 way back, speakers on the short side. Room is open to another room on one side. It's not a dedicated room, used most of the time for casual HDTV or Blu-ray watching, but I like to crank it when I'm listening to music. Tastes range from classic rock to jazz including multi-channel concerts.
Using an Oppo 93 into an Anthem MRX300 into a Parasound HCA-2205A.
I'm thinking that since I'm using a sub for the real low end, it may be a better value to go with a stand-mounted monitor vs a floorstander. Less money into cabinetry and more into drivers. Also makes for easier placement.
Any opinions and recommendations?
Considering Salk (Songtower RT up to Soundscape M7 possibly), Selah Tempestra, Cirrus Vapor, Ascend Sierra Tower with Raal, Phils, but open to other suggestions.

doug s.

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 6572
  • makin' music
Re: $3-5k/pr, Floorstander or Monitors?
« Reply #1 on: 20 Apr 2012, 05:40 am »
i won't recommend specific brands, but i would recommend monitors, and getting a second sub.  and, if you go active x-over and cross over the monitors at, say, 80hz, they will also sound better, as they and their amp will not have to see the lowest octave...

even if you happen to find floorstanders you like, i would still recommend active x-over and at least two subs, for the same reason - the floor standers will sound better.  unless their woofer is crossed over ~200hz, then active x-over to the subs won't be as important.

doug s.

ps - welcome to a/c!   :thumb:

sharpsuxx

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 282
  • "I guess live music is a healthy addiction." CT
Re: $3-5k/pr, Floorstander or Monitors?
« Reply #2 on: 20 Apr 2012, 06:27 am »
Vapor's Cirrus are certainly my choice right now but Ryan has a lot of great models.  It sounds like your focus is more for HT than for music, I would give him a call and see if he has anything that fits what you are looking for.  I am spoiled living in Missouri I have been able to visit his place, he had a set of speakers called the Arcus that had some serious impact when I went and listened at his place.  They sounded phenomenal, great impact and clear concise image way outside the boundaries of the speaker, really big sound.  They would be great for that combo mostly HT with some music.  I'm sure he could build you a great sealed design to pair up with the sub if your interested in keeping it in your system.  He uses nothing but the best quality drivers in all of his stuff and uses a cabinet design that really lets 'em sing. 

I have heard Salk's stuff is great too, beautiful finshes.  Depends on what you want to focus the system on.  Depending on what you want to focus on movies vs. music i.e. soundstage, resolution, and refinement vs. dynamics and impact.  The Arcus is one speaker I have heard that really has the capability to do either, the Cirrus definetly did music better with much more refinement, and I am sure it could produce the impact with a little more power. 

Edit.  Almost forgot to mention monitors for sure, sealed would probably be best to integrate with a sub, but with EQ anything could work.

wilsynet

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1228
Re: $3-5k/pr, Floorstander or Monitors?
« Reply #3 on: 20 Apr 2012, 06:32 am »
I am very impressed with the Selah Tempestas I took delivery of about 3 weeks ago.  The 45 day return policy makes the purchase low risk, but I don't think you'll need it.

Don't let the 85 db efficiency rating scare you off either.  This is a very conservative published number -- they seem much easier to drive than some other similarly (at least according to the specs) efficient speakers I've had.

I haven't written a review yet but I plan to.  The summary is that they're just totally excellent.

Customer service was also terrific.  Speakers delivered as promised and on time.

firedog

Re: $3-5k/pr, Floorstander or Monitors?
« Reply #4 on: 20 Apr 2012, 06:48 am »
Thinking about replacing my '87 Vandersteen 2Cs at some point. 5.1 system with Vandersteen V2W sub in a 25x23' room with the listening position about 1/2 way back, speakers on the short side. Room is open to another room on one side. It's not a dedicated room, used most of the time for casual HDTV or Blu-ray watching, but I like to crank it when I'm listening to music. Tastes range from classic rock to jazz including multi-channel concerts.
Using an Oppo 93 into an Anthem MRX300 into a Parasound HCA-2205A.
I'm thinking that since I'm using a sub for the real low end, it may be a better value to go with a stand-mounted monitor vs a floorstander. Less money into cabinetry and more into drivers. Also makes for easier placement.
Any opinions and recommendations?
Considering Salk (Songtower RT up to Soundscape M7 possibly), Selah Tempestra, Cirrus Vapor, Ascend Sierra Tower with Raal, Phils, but open to other suggestions.

I'd agree with you that if you have a good sub you like, monitors make more sense. But, even a lot of very high quality stand mounters may not get the volume you want, even in a small room. One of the tradeoffs you make with monitors is that you generally give up getting those really loud "realistic" sound levels.  You don't seem to listen to orchestral music a  lot, so that makes it less important. If you find some monitors you like, I strongly suggest not buying anything that you can't audition in your room, just to make sure they not only sound good, but play loud like you like it.

doug s.

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 6572
  • makin' music
Re: $3-5k/pr, Floorstander or Monitors?
« Reply #5 on: 20 Apr 2012, 07:17 am »
I'd agree with you that if you have a good sub you like, monitors make more sense. But, even a lot of very high quality stand mounters may not get the volume you want, even in a small room. One of the tradeoffs you make with monitors is that you generally give up getting those really loud "realistic" sound levels.  You don't seem to listen to orchestral music a  lot, so that makes it less important. If you find some monitors you like, I strongly suggest not buying anything that you can't audition in your room, just to make sure they not only sound good, but play loud like you like it.

even with proac tablette 8 reference signatures - positively tiny speakers - i was able to get louder than comfortable spl's, when they were crossed at 80hz w/24db/octave active crossover.  the room size was 26x38x8.5...

as i said before, i would recommend subs, even w/floorstanders...

ymmv,

doug s.

sharpsuxx

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 282
  • "I guess live music is a healthy addiction." CT
Re: $3-5k/pr, Floorstander or Monitors?
« Reply #6 on: 20 Apr 2012, 07:23 am »
...as i said before, i would recommend subs, even w/floorstanders...

ymmv,

doug s.

+1

Like the OP said with mostly used for HDTV and Blu Ray a good sub or two is a must.  Most capable monitors can get down low enough to integrate into good subs.  You'll never get the impact of a movie without a dedicated sub. Then again I haven't heard any movies on Wilson audio MAXXs.  There are tons of world class monitors for under 5k.  Not too many towers, at least comparable ones as far as refinement goes in that price range.

JLM

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 10661
  • The elephant normally IS the room
Re: $3-5k/pr, Floorstander or Monitors?
« Reply #7 on: 20 Apr 2012, 09:00 am »
Monitors with extra sub(s) for sure.  The loudness factor mentioned above often depends on having good mid/bass output, so I recommend targeting a 6 or 7 inch mid/bass driver, and of course serious auditioning.  At this price much will depend on your taste/circumstances.

Look into a "swarm" of subs.  The theory is it takes 3 or 4 to even out null points in a room.  Epik Legend (dual opposing 12 inch woofers with 300 watt Bash amp per cabinet) are available at $900/pair (haven't heard them but the price is right for so much displacement).  Placement, especially in a non-dedicated room would be the real challenge.

mhconley

Re: $3-5k/pr, Floorstander or Monitors?
« Reply #8 on: 20 Apr 2012, 12:12 pm »
In that price range the Von Schweikert VR-33 would be my top choice.

Martin

borism

Re: $3-5k/pr, Floorstander or Monitors?
« Reply #9 on: 20 Apr 2012, 12:28 pm »
I would also recommend looking at Audiokinesis loudspeakers on this site. Same price range, floorstanders, negligible dynamic compression, high efficiency and high quality drivers.

Good luck!

Boris

opnly bafld

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 2414
  • 83 Klipsch LSIs
Re: $3-5k/pr, Floorstander or Monitors?
« Reply #10 on: 20 Apr 2012, 12:34 pm »
Audiokinesis would be at the top of my list.  :thumb:

Lin

saeyedoc

Re: $3-5k/pr, Floorstander or Monitors?
« Reply #11 on: 20 Apr 2012, 01:19 pm »
Just to clarify things, movie and TV watching are usually at moderate levels, say -20 to -10 at most on my ARC calibrated system. I'm looking for extreme levels of dynamics with movies.
For music, I don't listen to orchestral music at all, the biggest demands would be listening to 5.1 concerts, mostly rock. Again, not extreme volume levels, maybe as high as -10.
I want the best quality possible for music, willing to give up some dynamics on movies to accomplish that. Smooth, non-fatiguing sound is what I'm looking for. At most, I may be able to squeeze one more sub in there, WAF is paramount as this is our main family room.
I had my wife look at pictures of several contenders, Philharmonics, Salks, Tempestra, Vapor. She didn't like the look of the Salk ST or the Phils, the Tempestra or Vapor in black might be acceptable.
She wants something that will not be very noticable.
Leaning towards a stand mounted monitor in a black finish.
I'll get out my SPL meter this weekend to see what my actual levels are.

saeyedoc

Re: $3-5k/pr, Floorstander or Monitors?
« Reply #12 on: 20 Apr 2012, 02:54 pm »
I am very impressed with the Selah Tempestas I took delivery of about 3 weeks ago.  The 45 day return policy makes the purchase low risk, but I don't think you'll need it.

Don't let the 85 db efficiency rating scare you off either.  This is a very conservative published number -- they seem much easier to drive than some other similarly (at least according to the specs) efficient speakers I've had.

I haven't written a review yet but I plan to.  The summary is that they're just totally excellent.

Customer service was also terrific.  Speakers delivered as promised and on time.
These are very appealing to me, what are you using for stands?

charmerci

Re: $3-5k/pr, Floorstander or Monitors?
« Reply #13 on: 20 Apr 2012, 06:26 pm »
At most, I may be able to squeeze one more sub in there, WAF is paramount as this is our main family room.
I had my wife look at pictures of several contenders, Philharmonics, Salks, Tempestra, Vapor. She didn't like the look of the Salk ST or the Phils, the Tempestra or Vapor in black might be acceptable.
She wants something that will not be very noticable.
Leaning towards a stand mounted monitor in a black finish.

One thing that you might do - it's worked before - is have her choose the wood veneer. I know with Salks, Jim will veneer his speakers in any wood that you'd like.

saeyedoc

Re: $3-5k/pr, Floorstander or Monitors?
« Reply #14 on: 20 Apr 2012, 06:59 pm »
Yes, I understand Jim can do most anything with the cabinets. I don't think that's the problem though, more of the shape.
I think I can get away with something like the Cirrus or Tempestra in black.
She hated the look of the Phils and the STs.
I'll give her some slack since she's put up with the Vandys for so long.

HT cOz

Re: $3-5k/pr, Floorstander or Monitors?
« Reply #15 on: 20 Apr 2012, 07:10 pm »
Those Cirus speakers are real lookers!  :thumb:

wilsynet

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1228
Re: $3-5k/pr, Floorstander or Monitors?
« Reply #16 on: 20 Apr 2012, 07:36 pm »
For the Tempestas, Rick suggested a stand between 18" - 22", and in particular, he said a very budget friendly stand that he personally uses is the Sanus SF22B, a 22" stand.

I was a bit concerned that the Sanus was too small and narrow a stand for the Tempestas, mainly because my cats like to use speakers as an intermediate jump point when they want to get on top of a book shelf I have.  I just wasn't convinced that the Sanus would have rock solid stability.

I ended up getting a pair of stands from Sound Anchors.  I phoned them up and described the speaker, the Sound Anchor guy suggested he build a one off based on the Project 4 stand.  He said the Tempesta was large for typical monitors and hence he didn't think the single post home audio stand was a good choice, but the 3 post stand or a 4 post stand would be overkill.  He suggested a variation on the studio line Project 4, which has a wide footprint, but he would make it shorter to accommodate the Tempestas.

We settled on a 20" stand (splitting the difference between 18" and 22") although if I had to do it over again, because of the length of the spikes and the height of the Herbie's gliders, it turns out that 18" or 19" would have been more appropriate to get the tweeter to ear level.  Right now, it is just slightly above ear level.  Having said all of that, precise stand height probably isn't all that critical given that Selah recommends a pretty broad range, from 18" - 22".

The cats have jumped on the Tempastas a few times now and nothing looks at all precarious so I'm pretty happy with the stability of the Sound Anchors.  In the past, I've also used Skylan stands, which I think are more handsome than the Sound Anchors.  Both Sound Anchor and Skylan are good choices, but the Sanus is about half the cost.

saeyedoc

Re: $3-5k/pr, Floorstander or Monitors?
« Reply #17 on: 20 Apr 2012, 07:57 pm »
For the Tempestas, Rick suggested a stand between 18" - 22", and in particular, he said a very budget friendly stand that he personally uses is the Sanus SF22B, a 22" stand.

I was a bit concerned that the Sanus was too small and narrow a stand for the Tempestas, mainly because my cats like to use speakers as an intermediate jump point when they want to get on top of a book shelf I have.  I just wasn't convinced that the Sanus would have rock solid stability.

I ended up getting a pair of stands from Sound Anchors.  I phoned them up and described the speaker, the Sound Anchor guy suggested he build a one off based on the Project 4 stand.  He said the Tempesta was large for typical monitors and hence he didn't think the single post home audio stand was a good choice, but the 3 post stand or a 4 post stand would be overkill.  He suggested a variation on the studio line Project 4, which has a wide footprint, but he would make it shorter to accommodate the Tempestas.

We settled on a 20" stand (splitting the difference between 18" and 22") although if I had to do it over again, because of the length of the spikes and the height of the Herbie's gliders, it turns out that 18" or 19" would have been more appropriate to get the tweeter to ear level.  Right now, it is just slightly above ear level.  Having said all of that, precise stand height probably isn't all that critical given that Selah recommends a pretty broad range, from 18" - 22".

The cats have jumped on the Tempastas a few times now and nothing looks at all precarious so I'm pretty happy with the stability of the Sound Anchors.  In the past, I've also used Skylan stands, which I think are more handsome than the Sound Anchors.  Both Sound Anchor and Skylan are good choices, but the Sanus is about half the cost.
Hmm, looks like the project 4 is available at 20", do you recall what your cost was? I have no worries about cats, so the Sanus may be ok. Those Skylans are pricey.

doug s.

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 6572
  • makin' music
Re: $3-5k/pr, Floorstander or Monitors?
« Reply #18 on: 20 Apr 2012, 08:12 pm »
here are your speakers:   :thumb:

http://www.proac-loudspeakers.com/tritower.php

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/proac-response-tritower-floorstanders-see-photo



here are the diminutive tablette 8 ref sigs i mentioned earlier that could rock a 26x38 room, when crossed to subs:

http://www.proac-loudspeakers.com/tabref8sig.php


proacs are really fine sounding speakers.  the tritowers were designed with h-t in mind...  w/subs, they would be amazing, imo...

doug s.

saeyedoc

Re: $3-5k/pr, Floorstander or Monitors?
« Reply #19 on: 20 Apr 2012, 08:26 pm »
Someone on another forum thought the Circondare may be an even better option for me than the Tempestra, higher sensitivity. Anyone here have or seen those?