AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Enclosures => Topic started by: medium jim on 22 Feb 2013, 04:38 pm
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Here's a link to The Absolute Sound's Editor's Choice Awards for Subwoofers, for 2013:
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/2013-tas-editors-choice-awards-subwoofers/
As you can see, it covers a wide spectrum of prices, affordable to sublime. Speak up if you agree or disagree with the choices.
Jim
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Interesting that the JL Audio f113 is still at the top for it's price range - been around a while now. I still love mine, but you'd think there'd be something better in the last, what - 5+ years?
Wilson's Thor's Hammer - Big and impressive.
Wonder if they've ever tried a Thigpen Rotary for the really deep stuff?
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Interesting that the JL Audio f113 is still at the top for it's price range - been around a while now. I still love mine, but you'd think there'd be something better in the last, what - 5+ years?
Wilson's Thor's Hammer - Big and impressive.
Wonder if they've ever tried a Thigpen Rotary for the really deep stuff?
Rotary, makes me think about a Leslie Rotary Speaker for a home Sub....after all, they're made for organs, so you know they would go low. Talk about WAF though :wink:
(http://www.goffprof.com/images/products/6/6_1_big.jpg)
Jim
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Hi.
Here's a link to The Absolute Sound's Editor's Choice Awards for Subwoofers, for 2013:
As you can see, it covers a wide spectrum of prices, affordable to sublime. Speak up if you agree or disagree with the choices.
Jim
Maybe whoever get money to burn willing to spend $12,000 for a sub....
My question will be: would those rich & affordable know how to appreciate the bass difference among subs with such "sublime" to rediculous pricing.
My well known US brandname 10" 100W sub (rediculously priced for USD45) can shake up my basement audio den with clean & solid subsonic bass pedal notes of my pipe organ LP soundtracks. So I'd imagine that $12,000 sub would be powerful enough to level down my house to crumbles.
I just envy such subs vendors, fuelled by audiophile journals' appraisals, can convince their wealthy customers to dig so deep into their pockets.
c-J.
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My well known US brandname 10" 100W sub (rediculously priced for USD45) can shake up my basement audio den with clean & solid subsonic bass pedal notes of my pipe organ LP soundtracks.
c-J.
Which sub is that?
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Hi.
Which sub is that?
Send me a PM so I can tell you what make & model it is.
There is a lot to do with the proper interphasing between the amp line O/P (to feed signals to) & the line I/P of the sub (to receive signal from the amp).
First off, I don't want to drop a big bundle to acquire those subwoofer electronic X'vers which almost all sub users are using - no other cheaper & simpler choice in the marketplace. There is already a built-in
active bass filter inside every active sub. So don't we use it?????????? :scratch:
The mainstream music signals will be compromised by passing thru those complex active X-over circuitry. The last thing I want my music to go thru such electronic jargon.
I go for the purest way - only tap out a small signal from the mainstream music programme from the preamp line O/P to feed the sub, allowing the mainstream music signals go thro the sound system "untempered".
There is a technical issue here - for tube preamps (like mine) the O/P Z is higher than the low I/P Z of the
sub. I find there is a noticeable volume drop when the preamp hooked up to the sub.
So all I think I need is a simple active buffer to interphase them. I am now almost finishng design/built one
with 1MgR or over I/P Z (to receive signal from the tube preamp) & low low O/P Z to drive the line I/P of the sub. It only cost my a couple of bucks to buy 2 active devices plus all those used parts in my part bins. Battery operated to minimize the noise level.
I believe with direct & simple interphase between the preamp & the sub will make the bass clean & powerful. Do I need to sell my car to buy an exotic priced sub? I don't think so.
Will report how it will sound with this new brainchild of mine.
c-J
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Hi.
Send me a PM so I can tell you what make & model it is.
I believe with direct & simple interphase between the preamp & the sub will make the bass clean & powerful. Do I need to sell my car to buy an exotic priced sub? I don't think so.
c-J
Why not tell all of us? :scratch:
I have a DQ-LP1 xover that I love. Current value maybe $300. Would I sell my car to buy a high-end sub! You betcha! But a great sub won't carry a 4x8 sheet of plywood like my beat-up rusty '96 Buick Roadmaster wagon. Which, BTW, has a pretty good OEM sound system.
'brick
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Brick, wasn't Buick using the Delco with Bose active speakers like GM used in the Corvette, which was a might fine system.
Jim
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Brick, wasn't Buick using the Delco with Bose active speakers like GM used in the Corvette, which was a might fine system.
Jim
They most likely were. One of the best car stereos I ever had was a Delco/Bose system in my '98 STS. Of course, it helped that the interior of that car was relatively quiet. I've since returned to a more entertaining vehicle to drive (and I may, right now, own the last car I ever buy :D), but that Caddy was a comfy break from the little cars. It was the best music enjoyment vehicle I ever owned - equate that with the room. :wink: By and large, a great room means more than a great system (this isn't to say that a great system isn't needed to get the most out of the room).
Anyway, all of the rambling is to agree - yeah, fine system.
BTW, that Roadmaster was a monster! It would make for an awesome truck. At the time I owned the STS, I was (ab)using it like a truck. Did the job quite well. The interior would swallow quite a few boxes, and the trunk was cavernous...but, the Roadmaster had a bigger appetite.
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Brick, wasn't Buick using the Delco with Bose active speakers like GM used in the Corvette, which was a might fine system.
Jim
Nope! No Bose logo will ever adorn anything I own! :nono:
30 years ago I worked with a former Bose rep, whom I grew to despise on many levels for his BS. You know the type "Well, back in '57 when I owned a '65 GTO.........". Anyway, to him Bose was the only thing, and one day he dropped by with his wife and heard my DQ-10s. They listened for awhile before she turned to him and asked "Honey, why do these speakers sound so much better than ours?"
It was like winning the lottery! :lol:
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Brick, I agree with you regarding the Bose marketing bull caca, but they did make a nice sounding car speaker. Now back to our regular programming.
Jim
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My well known US brandname 10" 100W sub (rediculously priced for USD45) can shake...
If I give you my address and pay for your transportation, will you come to my listening room and impress me with that $45 'US brandname' (Is that a euphemism for Chinese?) subwoofer? By the way, why must it be a secret?
Rotary, makes me think about a Leslie Rotary Speaker for a home Sub....after all, they're made for organs, so you know they would go low. Talk about WAF though :wink:
I'd definitely like to hear a couple of those Leslies in my room. "Holy Freakin' Crap", I think I'd utter (well, something like that). :lol:
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Brick, I agree with you regarding the Bose marketing bull caca, but they did make a nice sounding car speaker. Now back to our regular programming.
Jim
True, but just because I admit the NY Yankees play great baseball (well, some years) doesn't mean I like them or would accept free tickets to see the overpriced bastards. :flame: :peek: :lol:
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If I give you my address and pay for your transportation, will you come to my listening room and impress me with that $45 'US brandname' (Is that a euphemism for Chinese?) subwoofer?
How can a 100 watt sub actually be a sub? :scratch: :lol:
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How can a 100 watt sub actually be a sub? :scratch: :lol:
Actually it makes perfect sense if the driver/speaker is say 92db+ as is the case for mine. Quality A/B plate amp(s)
Jim
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I have the cheapest sub on that list : the REL T-5, which is used 90% for music. Fast & integrates seamlessly well w/ Totem Arro's - and looks great to boot in glossy white. Only slight negative to me is that because of the feet on hardwood floors, with super deep LF effects for home cinema it can actually move around a bit. Not that big a deal. I'd recommend it to anyone looking for a fast / tight / attractive sub at a decent price for small to mid size rooms.
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Hi.
If I give you my address and pay for your transportation, will you come to my listening room and impress me with that $45 'US brandname' (Is that a euphemism for Chinese?) subwoofer? By the way, why must it be a secret?
I already told the make/model & where to buy the same sub to that member who first asked me in my PM.
You don't seem to know the knowhow of making a cheapie sub sound supertb & deny me of my ear/hand on experience in subs, why bother to ask me?
If YOU did read my post carefully, I stressed so much on propery INTERPHASE with the preamp which can make a lousy sub sound excellent as I have done so. It is not so much how much money you want spend on a sub, the key issue is, again, to interphase yr stereo preamp PROPERLY to get the result.
May I ask you: how many & what subsonic bass recordings you got to test yr subs???
Price tag is not the only means to get a superb sounding sub. It is the proper interphase between the preamp & the sub & the music softeware to back it up.
Proper setting up of a sub, which I did not mention in my above post, is something not to be overlooked.
Now I can make a $45 sub shake my basement audio den, any costier counterparts are only icing on the cake - if one really knows the business.
c-J
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Please, let's be civil or the thread goes bye, bye.
Jim
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Who's not being civil? Anyhoo...
Jack, actually you didn't respond to my pm with the name of the sub, and I still don't get why it's a secret.
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Personally, I'd rather have several of the cheapest subs placed throughout the room, than one of these monster subs.
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It is a slightly obnoxious set of choices though. The Wilson is 21.5K, and you still need a 3.8k crossover and an amp! And they recommend you run them in stereo!
I stopped reading these types of review a while ago, once I realized that I could never afford 90% of what was offered. It's like reading a car magazine -- the average car reviewed many times is as expensive as my first house. Of this "Editor's Choice", I could afford one of the subs. My current car cost less than a single Wilson.
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Civility, at times, is overrated. :wink:
I already told the make/model & where to buy the same sub to that member who first asked me in my PM.
That's nice (though, apparently false), but it's not an answer to the question of why it must remain a secret on this forum. If you'll reveal the details in private, why not do so in public? That which is not made public is kept secret.
You don't seem to know the knowhow of making a cheapie sub sound supertb & deny me of my ear/hand on experience in subs, why bother to ask me?
On what basis do you make the assumption that I lack such 'knowhow'? How did I deny you of anything? I simply posed a challenge. When you infer what I did not imply, you are putting words in my mouth.
If YOU did read my post carefully, I stressed so much on propery INTERPHASE with the preamp which can make a lousy sub sound excellent as I have done so. It is not so much how much money you want spend on a sub, the key issue is, again, to interphase yr stereo preamp PROPERLY to get the result.
I believe you mean INTERFACE, not INTERPHASE. I don't have an interface issue. It is, by your own statement, you who have such a problem. Are you honestly suggesting that proper impedance matching is all it takes to get astounding results – even from a lousy (your word) sub? I guess I wasted a ton of money on bass traps.
May I ask you: how many & what subsonic bass recordings you got to test yr subs???
I have lots and lots of such recordings – far too many to name, but take Liquid Tension Experiment's 'Chewbacca' for a ride for some butt kicking bass. I don't understand the pertinence of this question.
Price tag is not the only means to get a superb sounding sub. It is the proper interphase between the preamp & the sub & the music softeware to back it up.
Okay, we're back to this 'interphase' issue again. My subs are being fed by a crossover. My mains are being fed by the same crossover. I have no impedance mismatch – output to input impedances are well within ideal operating ranges. I don't have a sub; I have two and I'm contemplating a third because, as satisfying as things are, I know they can be even better. As far as the music is concerned, I have a plethora of titles with incredible bass.
Proper setting up of a sub, which I did not mention in my above post, is something not to be overlooked.
Ah, but that's elementary, my dear Watson. I have invested a great deal of time, energy and, yes, money in maximizing my setup. You seem to be assuming otherwise, except on that last one.
Now I can make a $45 sub shake my basement audio den, any costier counterparts are only icing on the cake - if one really knows the business.
Good for you! Of course, shaking is easy. If that's all you want, just attach a shaker to your chair and be done with it. We still don't know what $45 sub you have. I guess I have lots of icing on my cake. Oh, I guess I don't since I obviously don't know the business.
What I do know is that I don't just want to be hit in the chest with pressure; I want to hear notes. I don't want hard hit notes to over-bloom and resonate in my room. I want them decay properly.
Your assertion, as I read it, is that those of us who have invested deeply in the bottom end have wasted our money. Furthermore, we did so out of ignorance, because anyone who knows the business could have achieved that end for less than a restaurant bill. Sorry, but that's utter nonsense.
Now, I am not insisting that I have the ultimate bass setup, nor am I suggesting that my approach is the best, or the only one to take. I am making the claim that it works to the extent that I (and I assure you that I'm very demanding, as well as cultured) am impressed with it – no more, no less.
Put down your sticks and stones - maybe give a listen to the penultimate song on Joni Mitchell's 'Clouds'. Nobody in this thread made an issue of the money spent beyond responding to the query (oops, different thread, but still...) of how much we actually spent - no value judgment. You drew that pistol. I'd rather not have to return fire.
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Moving right along....
Jim
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They most likely were. One of the best car stereos I ever had was a Delco/Bose system in my '98 STS. Of course, it helped that the interior of that car was relatively quiet. I've since returned to a more entertaining vehicle to drive (and I may, right now, own the last car I ever buy :D), but that Caddy was a comfy break from the little cars. It was the best music enjoyment vehicle I ever owned - equate that with the room. :wink: By and large, a great room means more than a great system (this isn't to say that a great system isn't needed to get the most out of the room).
Anyway, all of the rambling is to agree - yeah, fine system.
BTW, that Roadmaster was a monster! It would make for an awesome truck. At the time I owned the STS, I was (ab)using it like a truck. Did the job quite well. The interior would swallow quite a few boxes, and the trunk was cavernous...but, the Roadmaster had a bigger appetite.
Dr Amar Bose and his engineers have been working on an Automobile suspension system for over twenty five years. His suspension system is actually more impressive than his speaker designs. Although I did own a pair of 901's in the 80's and I liked them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3gX2HwFf5I
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Maybe one of the most meandering threads, from TAS, to cheap DIY, to Car Audio and now to Car Suspension. What was this thread about again?
Jim
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AADD is rampant in this nation !!!!!!!
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I used to know what that stood for.
Aunts Against Drunk Driving?
I think this thread was about things we can't afford.
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Maybe one of the most meandering threads, from TAS, to cheap DIY, to Car Audio and now to Car Suspension. What was this thread about again?
Jim
You are right Jim. Back to the regular programming. I don't respect what TAS writers say about subwoofers.
An overpriced big musical box of wires that makes a big boom is fine with me, but I will not buy it.
I mean... I would be paying the salaries of the writers who went to bed with the manufactures, wouldn't I ? I would rather buy an SVS sub, HSU sub or make a DIY.
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It is a slightly obnoxious set of choices though. The Wilson is 21.5K, and you still need a 3.8k crossover and an amp! And they recommend you run them in stereo!
The Wilson Audio web site says this sub weighs 411 pounds! How exactly does one optimize the location of a 411 pound subwoofer? :green:
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The Wilson Audio web site says this sub weighs 411 pounds! How exactly does one optimize the location of a 411 pound subwoofer? :green:
HaHaHa :lol: Yes optimize the location... I love it :lol:
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With those big assed things you could optimize the whole neighborhood! Make sure to swarm them.
Jim
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HaHaHa :lol: Yes optimize the location... I love it :lol:
Maybe one could build some very short stands for them that double as palettes for a hydraulic jack.
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With those big assed things you could optimize the whole neighborhood! Make sure to swarm them.
Yup. You'll need at least four of them to smooth out the effect of room modes. :green:
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Yup. You'll need at least four of them to smooth out the effect of room modes. :green:
Be sure to use the movie Earthquake to integrate them properly :icon_twisted:
Jim
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Unlike lesser subwoofers, there is no digital room correction with Wilson's Thor's Hammer, so you will rely on your Wilson dealer for proper set-up.
I guess that would be the guy who owns the forklift.
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Unlike lesser subwoofers, there is no digital room correction with Wilson's Thor's Hammer, so you will rely on your Wilson dealer for proper set-up.
I guess that would be the guy who owns the forklift.
Yes and he brings a 5 gallon bucket of these...
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=75872)