Visaton B200 Project

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SteveRB

Visaton B200 Project
« on: 15 Feb 2013, 05:56 pm »
Hello,

I will be starting a Visaton B200 project very soon. My plan is to emulate a couple projects I have already seen online, including the Omega A8. I have the drivers from a previous OB project -- I know their sound (and like it). These are to be small room speakers for late night listening: no large SPL, no deep bass. I have spoken with several people regarding this project and have landed on a few specs: single driver, aperiodic vent, no XO, bedroom sized enclosure.

I am very new to designing enclosures. What I have found in my research is that aperiodic designs are not as specific in regards to dimensions and porting as other more complicated designs. A couple designers have recommended modelling the biggest sealed box I can and add the aperiodic vent.

I used a couple different methods for modelling my sealed enclosure and have come up with two Options: 1 is wide and shallow, 2 is narrow and deep. I would like to hear a couple pros and cons of each option... Both options would have one H-brace and be properly stuffed.

i am leaning towards option 1 for personal reasons. I plan to put the vents on the front (like the old Dynaco A25s). Just to allow me to push the speakers up against a wall if necessary.

I'm hoping people a little more experienced than me can chime in on my plans.

Thanks for looking.







SteveRB

Re: Visaton B200 Project
« Reply #1 on: 15 Feb 2013, 06:28 pm »
just a little more background.

here is a thread where I first presented the idea. I was looking for a set of plans -- now I see I will have to design my own.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=113922.0

SteveRB

Re: Visaton B200 Project
« Reply #2 on: 16 Feb 2013, 12:24 am »
Did a bit more work today; drew a quick mock up of the enclosure with braces and vents.




SteveRB

Re: Visaton B200 Project
« Reply #3 on: 16 Feb 2013, 12:46 am »
fits nicely on one sheet of ply




richidoo

Re: Visaton B200 Project
« Reply #4 on: 16 Feb 2013, 01:47 am »
Looks really nice Steve. What design software is that? Very slick!!

You probably already know this, but I'll mention it anyway...  Aperiodic vents are for flattening impedance at driver resonance, not so much for boosting bass. Unless you are using low damping tube amps, or pure current source amp, you may not need that - aperiodic port is less valuable for SS amps with very high electrical damping (low output impedance.) Do you mean to boost the bass response? If so you want a reflex port. But you seem to know what you're talking about so maybe you have the next big idea. rightonrighton   :thumb:

Aperiodic doesn't have much airflow, so you could put them on the back an inch from the wall with no consequence. A reflex has high velocity air so it needs room to breathe. Madisound sells plastic aperiodic ports premade, they are pretty good. Your speaker probably only needs one though, the second would not improve impedance any further.

If you are going sealed (with or without aperiodic port) limit your box size to Q .5. That's as big as your driver can make use of.  That will give you lowest bass extension, and best transient response, lowest group delay, but it sounds kinda dry with a high damping SS amp. Good for tubes though. If you want a little looser, warmer more natural "musical" sounding bass with SS amp, then Q .57 is good. Q .7 is warmer still, and smaller, but you'll start to lose some bass extension and bass clarity, but it will sound "fuller." The cool thing is you can build the box for Q .5, then put some wood or foam blocks inside to increase the Q to experiment with the sound. When you find the right sound, glue them down. (Qts in a sealed box is dependent on internal volume.)

For sealed (aperiodic,) you don't want to stuff it full, despite what the loudspeaker cookbook and HT guys say. It will measure "better" with more stuff, but it will sound hifi sterile dead and loss of sensitivity. Just line 3 opposing walls with 1-2" fluff, so only 3 walls are treated, the other three are bare. Make one of the treated walls the rear, and keep the stuffing away from the driver so it is not damped by close stuffing. Experiment with the stuffing thickness. You'll quickly see how thick you want it. You just want to reduce inner echo, not mechanically damp the cone too much. Parts Express Acousti-Stuff works well, but real long haired wool is the best. I use the small handyman rolls of pink 1" thick FG insulation. You could also make "creative" bracing to serve as angled reflectors to scatter the inner reflections to allow less stuffing. Too much stuffing makes the sound gets dry and dull. If not enough, the internal echos can be heard.

Make sure your box walls are as vibration free as possible. Using composite construction is a good way achieve this, with one layer very hard and dense like baltic birch, steel, granite, (high resonant Q) and the other layer soft and dead (low Q) like MDF, plastic, lead ;)  In theory, bracing itself does not reduce the vibration energy, it only increases the resonant frequencies, which helps the wood better damp itself, or moves the resonance above the band of that enclosure. Search this forum for post about bracing and enclosure resonance by member planet10 for some good info. Actively damping the walls via material choice is better than just bracing.... but it's also more work, more expensive and heavier... I have found single driver speakers to benefit from very quiet enclosure, then you can really hear the magic without the noisy box singing along. Plywood box with 1/4" mild steel sheets glued to the inside, plus braces should work pretty well. There are several good threads here about enclosure vibration damping.
Have fun and post some pics!
Rich

SteveRB

Re: Visaton B200 Project
« Reply #5 on: 16 Feb 2013, 03:41 am »
Thanks for the info Rich,

I've done a couple enclosure kits over the years, and build several OB units. This will be my first 'free-form' enclosure project. That said, I am following a couple of previously successful projects.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anGQEQ7JB1c
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/redwine3/system.html

I am planning to go with the two braces as shown. One speaker guru said that braces are really just needed to stiffen the baffle where the holes were cut. I was also planning to line most of the inside joints with duct-seal. I have had good results with modelling clay in the past to damp and seal. I'm thinking using the duct seal over most of the inside will really limit hearing the enclosure at all. Your comments regarding the stuffing is new to me, so thanks!

This project started as a way to use up some supplies and the drivers that were not in use. But the more research I did the more I excited I got about the possible results. The most info I found is that the aperiodic vent simulates a larger sealed enclosure (20% or so). I figure the speakers should reach down to the mid 40s for bass. That's fine for this project. 

I will checkout your recommendation on the total system Q. I was told that the aperiodic vent will also allow a much higher Q. But I have zero experience with this.

I will likely be running these with an older tube amp -- I may pick up a cheap digital amp to play with as well.

The software I am using for design is Sketch Up. Its a simple and free 3D drafting software. Took the architectural and design worlds by storm about 8 years ago. I just adjust some of parameters so that it looks a bit better. ...it's kinda ugly out of the box.

Thanks again,


SteveRB

Re: Visaton B200 Project
« Reply #6 on: 16 Feb 2013, 04:21 am »
Seeing as there is little to go on with this type of design, I am assuming a great deal and taking it all with a grain of salt...

The Omega A8s had a volume of about 33 litres with two aperiodic vents. Frequency response is a claimed 52Hz - 18kHz, with in-room lows down to 45Hz. Aperiodic designs such as these are said to roll off bass on a third order slope (faster than OB).

Currently I'm showing 40 litres and a (Sealed) total Q of 1.4. If I can match the A8's response I will be happy.

SteveRB

Re: Visaton B200 Project
« Reply #7 on: 19 Feb 2013, 04:09 am »
After further consideration, I have decided to put the drivers up for sale instead of this project. My time and space will not accommodate another speaker project.

Thanks for the help,