What are your favorite extended range drivers?

TerryO · « **Reply #80 on:** 22 Oct 2007, 05:01 am »

Quote from: floobydust on 22 Oct 2007, 01:38 am

Jim,

Not sure if I would simply sub this one for another based on T&S parameters alone. Fostex has recommended enclosures for all of their drivers but I have found slight variations from what you can download from their website (which is the same PDF as Madisound) and the actual printed sheet enclosed with the driver itself. In some cases there are different enclosure setups altogether. In all cases the FX120 and F120A are only recommended in a ported enclosure of about 10 liters.

On interesting enclosure design is the OneZ done by Audio Crafters Guild... link is:

http://www.audiocraftersguild.com/Loudspeakers/oneZ/oneZ_summary.html

While they certainly do recommend the F120A as one of the possible drivers, an email with them around the FX120 driver had them recommending a different (aka, more common ported) design and not the OneZ enclosure.

On a side note, Fostex is effectively discontinuing the F120A due to the high cost (Alnico). According to Madisound they still have parts to build more (quantity unknown) per special order from an authorized dealer/distributor. Overall probably a shame but with the FX120 being so good at less than half the price of the F120A it's tough to determine just how many can be sold at this high price. In any case, when they're gone... they're gone.

Regards, KM

Do yourself a favor and ignore the Fostex designs, they're OK, but the more recent designs, with more coming every day has left those in the dust.

As far as the OneZ design, it's been around a *long* time and while I've never heard one, they cost a lot more than than what you can build and have probably been superceded by better designs. I don't remember one person that had ever built one or even purchased a pair.

Instead, do yourself a favor and take a look at the various designs at: www.frugal-horn.com

I'm sure that there's something there that you'll find interesting, and having personally heard many of these designs, I don't think you'll be disappointed.

Best Regards,
TerryO

jrebman · « **Reply #81 on:** 22 Oct 2007, 03:19 pm »

Terry,

Have you ever heard the "Mileva" monolith for the FE-127? Wonder if the FX-120 will worlk in that cabinet.

KM, thanks for the pointer to the oneZ -- interesting read. I sent them an email so it'll be interesting to see what they say.

-- Jim

TerryO · « **Reply #82 on:** 23 Oct 2007, 04:58 am »

Quote from: jrebman on 22 Oct 2007, 03:19 pm

Terry,

Have you ever heard the "Mileva" monolith for the FE-127? Wonder if the FX-120 will worlk in that cabinet.

KM, thanks for the pointer to the oneZ -- interesting read. I sent them an email so it'll be interesting to see what they say.

-- Jim

Jim,
Yes, I believe that Dave had a pair playing out on the deck at the Vancouver Island Meet last July. Not bad at all, although I've already indicated that I preferred the Aiko/108 Sigma above the rest. As an all around speaker the Aiko has limitations, while the Mileva is probably less "compromised" and may be better suited for your needs. I suppose if I could have just one set of speakers, the Mileva would work out very nicely. As for the use of the Fostex 120, you may want to ask Dave, as he may have actually tried that combination out.

Best Regards,
TerryO

Srajan Ebaen · « **Reply #83 on:** 23 Oct 2007, 12:49 pm »

It seems nobody yet mentioned commercial or DIY speakers using the French PHY drivers from Bernard Salabert.

From what I've heard, those could well come out on top (of course what box or baffle you hear them in/or is a huge variable always).

t-head · « **Reply #84 on:** 23 Oct 2007, 03:41 pm »

Srajan,

I have been eyeing (and drooling over) those beautiful speakers lately. Conspicuous in their absence are actual reviews. Can you provide any real-world listening experience? I have been considering the small, semi-open baffle box on the PHY-HP site and seen on the Tonian site.

Richard

Srajan Ebaen · « **Reply #85 on:** 23 Oct 2007, 03:56 pm »

I have only heard the Ocellia models and the raw PHYs in Salabert's wall. I don't believe the Tonian cabinets are designed like Ocellia's so I'd have to assume different sonics. I will review the Ocellia silver 8 with tweeter next year. Until then, I don't have listening impressions in my own four walls which is where you need to be to say anything remotely serious.

However, what I heard in France was some of the very best sound I've ever heard in "uncontrolled" circumstances, simply meaning outside my own space. If that sound I heard there transfers intact to my own electronics and room, it should be very impressive indeed.

jrebman · « **Reply #86 on:** 23 Oct 2007, 04:11 pm »

Srajan,

I've never heard any of these for myself, but the few people I know who hve, said they are wonderful. I think they are relatively more accessible in your part of the world, and I'm not even sure who the US importer is, if there is one.

But, just the fact they have cast bronze baskets says that they're not messing around. They were a bit on the pricey side too, last time I looked.

In post 3 of this thread I did mention the Phys to see if anybody had any experience with them, and so far, except for you, no takers. Thanks for bringing them up though.

-- Jim

t-head · « **Reply #87 on:** 23 Oct 2007, 04:16 pm »

Thanks Srajan,

I am particularly interested in the sound of the little DIY, tunable, semi-open baffle mini-boxes shown on Pierres site. I am looking at the 12" coax unit for this application. While I will admit the box seems a bit pedestrian for such a fine driver, the recommended OB shown will simply not fit in my room. So, if you should come across those anywhere in your travels, I'd love to hear your (or anyones) impression. A trip to LA (to Tonian) or France (to PHY) is not possible at this time, unfortunately. $3K for two drivers seems to warrant some investigation prior to purchase

. Aside from the impressive specs and meticulous manufacture, I do not believe there is a more beautiful speaker to be had, at least to my taste.

Richard

t-head · « **Reply #88 on:** 23 Oct 2007, 04:21 pm »

Jim,

The NA distributor is Tonian Acoustics (?) in LA. They are available from Madisound as well. +/- $3K a pair for the most expensive coaxial model with silver voice coil wire.

Richard

JLM · « **Reply #89 on:** 23 Oct 2007, 05:05 pm »

I use the big brother of the Fostex F120A, the F200A. This Alnico magnet, cast frame driver cost $380 each and is nothing like the "typical" Fostex extended range driver in terms of efficiency, construction, or sound. In comparison those sound thin with bass MIA. The F200A reaches 30 Hz on its own with peaks of 107 dB. I consider it a poor man's PHY.

DaveC113 · « **Reply #90 on:** 23 Oct 2007, 06:23 pm »

Quote from: t-head on 23 Oct 2007, 04:21 pm

Jim,

The NA distributor is Tonian Acoustics (?) in LA. They are available from Madisound as well. +/- $3K a pair for the most expensive coaxial model with silver voice coil wire.

Richard

Phy seemed expensive until I saw the Feastrex drivers at RMAF. I'd like to hear a Phy sometime, if anyone has a set in the Front Range area...

Dave

floobydust · « **Reply #91 on:** 23 Oct 2007, 06:39 pm »

Quote from: JLM on 23 Oct 2007, 05:05 pm

I use the big brother of the Fostex F120A, the F200A. This Alnico magnet, cast frame driver cost $380 each and is nothing like the "typical" Fostex extended range driver in terms of efficiency, construction, or sound. In comparison those sound thin with bass MIA. The F200A reaches 30 Hz on its own with peaks of 107 dB. I consider it a poor man's PHY.

Yes, those are very nice... as you said, big brother to the F120A. Oddly they seem to have better high-frequency extension over the F120A per the spec sheet. Have you heard the F120A as well? What type of enclosure are you using with the F200A? Also, price went up a bit... currently $388.50 from Madisound.

Regards, KM

JLM · « **Reply #92 on:** 23 Oct 2007, 07:50 pm »

KM,

I've not heard the F120A. My F200A drivers are in mass loaded transmission lines (search Bob Brines to see an image of them as these are the original FTA-2000s), but some prefer them in bass reflex or even open baffles. Several find them "dark" compared to Visaton B200 or "typical" Fostex drivers. (And frankly many extended range drivers.)

jrebman · « **Reply #93 on:** 23 Oct 2007, 08:05 pm »

I just heard from the guy who made my speakers and he said the FX-120s will work beautifully in these QW pipes he made for me. Looks like I have another experiment on my hands.

.

-- Jim

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #94 on:** 24 Oct 2007, 02:09 pm »

Quote from: rajacat on 22 Sep 2007, 08:40 pm

TerryO

Louis doesn't frequent his forum very often but it would be great if he would explain, without disclosing any secret tweaks, how his drivers differ from the stock ToneTubby drivers. Awhile ago I talked to him on the phone and I got the impression that there are substantial differences, including a bigger motor, to the extent that he filed a patent to protect his unique design.

--Raj

All,

I'm good friends with Louis and I know the following facts that Louis filled me in on a while back:

The stock 4.5” Tone Tubby driver was made for Telefunken for their studio cube (professional monitor) and was also co-designed by Louis for Tone Tubby (John Harrison). The 4.5” Tone Tubby version uses Omega’s basket. The surround is different. The hemp formulation in the cone is the same. The motor is different (the voice coil is of the Omega version is 18mm and the Tone Tubby uses a 25mm. They also use a different magnet). Top end freq. response of the Omega is more extended (mostly due to the voice coil). Louis at Omega also does cone and basket mods to his driver at the Omega factory.

As far as the Hemp Acoustic’s 4.5” driver, it no longer exists. A few samples were made for Hemp Acoustics (which found their way to Solen) but that was it. It was a completely different driver… not even the cone is the same (and Louis doubts how much hemp is even in that cone... Hemp Acoustics cannot get the Tone Tubby Hemp cones). Hemp Acoustics 4.5” does NOT equal the Tone Tubby 4.5” hemp does NOT equal the Omega 4.5’ hemp.

Regarding the Omega 8” hemp driver, it only shares the Tone Tubby cone material (Tone Tubby's hemp formulation) with the Tone Tubby 8” full rangedriver, but the rest is completely different… different basket, different voice coil, different magnet, different whizzer. Also, Omega is coming out with a special ALNICO version of this driver early next year.

I know that John Harrison of Tone Tubby and Louis of Omega worked very hard on these OEM Omega drivers (well over a year) and while Tone Tubby sells drivers (DIY), they are substantially different. They measure differently and have a different sound. The Omega drivers were developed by Louis for use with his enclosure parameters and "house sound."
Louis also designs all his speaker cabinets in house. The cabinet makes a huge difference and Louis tunes this design to his OEM drivers, as mentioned above. The cabinets are Omega designs that use a combo of phenolic, MDF, and plywood (I'm not sure about the ratios of these materials) as well as bracing of the cabinet to voice the speaker.

I'm sure there are things that Louis told me that I forgot, but I remember these facts and I hope they are helpful.

Best regards,

Vinnie

JohninCR · « **Reply #95 on:** 24 Oct 2007, 02:34 pm »

Quote from: JLM on 23 Oct 2007, 07:50 pm

KM,

I've not heard the F120A. My F200A drivers are in mass loaded transmission lines (search Bob Brines to see an image of them as these are the original FTA-2000s), but some prefer them in bass reflex or even open baffles. Several find them "dark" compared to Visaton B200 or "typical" Fostex drivers. (And frankly many extended range drivers.)

I have a pair of F120A's and quite a few other Fostex full rangers along with Visaton B200s. I can understand why those accustomed to other full rangers would call F120's or F200's "dark", but in reality the difference is that the F series response is smooth and well balanced. Uptilted and/or saw toothed response gets old.

jrebman · « **Reply #96 on:** 24 Oct 2007, 06:51 pm »

Vinnie,

Thanks for setting that straight. I've heard the same from several other sources as well, but didn't want to betray any confidences, so I'm glad the truth is slowly starting to emerge.

Thanks,

Jim

doorman · « **Reply #97 on:** 24 Oct 2007, 09:39 pm »

Quote from: JohninCR on 24 Oct 2007, 02:34 pm

Quote from: JLM on 23 Oct 2007, 07:50 pm
KM,

I've not heard the F120A. My F200A drivers are in mass loaded transmission lines (search Bob Brines to see an image of them as these are the original FTA-2000s), but some prefer them in bass reflex or even open baffles. Several find them "dark" compared to Visaton B200 or "typical" Fostex drivers. (And frankly many extended range drivers.)

I have a pair of F120A's and quite a few other Fostex full rangers along with Visaton B200s. I can understand why those accustomed to other full rangers would call F120's or F200's "dark", but in reality the difference is that the F series response is smooth and well balanced. Uptilted and/or saw toothed response gets old.

BTW, John, have you tried the F120A's in the Frugels?
Don

corloc · « **Reply #98 on:** 25 Oct 2007, 02:19 am »

Since we have been talking about the FX200 and FA200. I picked up some Jordan JX92s a couple of months back. Threw them in some sealed cabs with a CCS Sd12 sub, and I've been listening more than tweaking or posting.

These do seem darker that Fostex and Visaton, but they also seem more controlled. (o' comparison to Fostex FE206E and Visaton B200)

JLM · « **Reply #99 on:** 27 Oct 2007, 01:01 am »

Some have even called the B200 and Fostex FF/FE drivers mid/tweeters rather than "full range". Personally I try to avoid the term "full range" as its definition can be so debatable.

The Jordan's are intriguing, an aluminum foil driver that is meant to flex so that the smaller inner surface does the higher frequencies. And you find them in all sorts of cabinets. But they're pricey and reportedly the factory specifications are very "generous", especially on the Fs/F3 numbers.