[Vr3]

I missed a reply earlier -- was browsing at work in my down time...

I wanted to address something. I cant find the exact post --

But I recall reading

*Not a direct quote*

"Why did you go out and buy used monos, if you are so unhappy with Klaus, why buy them?"

Well, like I said in my very first post. I like Odyssey Audio, to me - they are my amp company, I will buy another pair - probally standard Stratos Monos for my subwoofers in the future when I get a bigger room to get rid of the Pro amp...

But to me, Klaus offers the biggest bang for the buck in Audio. Everything in my system except the CDP and now Monos were purchased new from select manufactures that I wanted to support.

Tyler Acoustics
Odyssey
VMPS

Tyler Acoustics and Odyssey were very impressive, and I was astonished at the quality I was able to obtain at the prices they charged.

Klaus went out of his way to offer you a solid product, and would even throw in upgrades just to show his gratitude...

I appreciate everything Klaus did for me, and I still do. The first thing I purchased was the Khartago, at the time I could not fully afford the Mono Blocks --- so, about 6 months into owning the Khartago I asked if he would be willing to do the trade in, he agreed and set me up... and the wait began

I waited a LONG time, kept in constant contact with Klaus throughout the following months of my order. I even praised Klaus and his service on here back in May of this year --

I know he has a small operation, and I dont mind waiting and paying more to support the man that makes it happen...

But just because this time he wasn't able to deliver, dosnt mean he wont be able to in the future. And I want to purchase from him again in the future...

The only reason I went used was a deal came up from someone I knew that I couldnt pass up -- surreal deal and I could trust him. Otherwise I would still be waiting and be equally as agitated...

I like Odyssey gear, I wanted Stratos Extremes, and I tried to support Klaus as much as I could...

I'm a very patient person, I just like up front realistic estimates and guesses...

In the future as I expand my HT, I will probally pick up a Khartago or two for center and surround channels, and the mono stratos standards for the subs...

My adventure with Klaus is far from over, but I am hoping what I am saying will bring some things to the front row and possibly get looked at for possible improvement if any...

If not, next time, I wont be so pressed and can probally wait it out...

Again, I'm sorry to the two that feel I am totally badgering Klaus, I am not intending it to be that way by any means...

And now to food!

[Lkdog]

I am sure it will all work out. Klaus has built his rep on honesty and taking care of his customers. Usually sooner than later.
He goes above and beyond for people and his trade up policy is unmatched in this industry. Yes, he is unique and has an idiosyncratic business model.
My only suggestion is to deal with him directly, but that is simply my opinion.

Good luck.
 

[lazydays]

Thanks guys --

Like I said, I'm not trying to beat Klaus up here...


 

Yes, you were and the original post was a cheap shot. I think a lot of people viewing this might have the same opinion and most people who have dealt with Klaus have a hunch there is more to this little story. There always is.

If you truly were a "very concerned fan" you would simply call him directly to resolve whatever the issue might be.
That is the fair thing to do and what every manufacturer here on AC would appreciate. These public airing of dispute threads never go anywhere.

I do find it totally disingenuous that you would not have any contact with Klaus for two months and then come on here and make this type of post.

In the end, though, if you are unhappy then do not buy any more Odyssey gear or deal with him any longer. Very simple.
That is what happens in a competitive business.

But-you went the other direction. I have no idea why you would go out and then buy a used pair of Mono Extremes that may require you dealing with the very vendor that you think is going out of business and who "blows you off, is unprofessional, and an embarrassment".

I would think that someone who has been so badly allegedly mistreated would not want anything to do with the manufacturer any longer.

Simply take your business elsewhere and move on.

The first time I spoke with Klaus, he was somewhere on the road just outside Montreal. He was very cordial, and had me get in touch with him as soon as he got home. Told him that I'd heard he had an upgrade path for his Stratos mono blocs, and I at least wanted todo a major tuneup on them. Well he asked me for their serial numbers, and the first thing he said was "they are in Florida!" This didn't take two minutes, and he even spoke of the fellow as if he was standing right next to him. He even remembers the way his system was built up! Now that's pretty close. Anyway I just told him he was talking over my head about this and that stuff. Then I said just to this;"give them the full tilt boogie." Had them back (he personally delivered them) in about a week. I expected six to eight weeks. At about the sametime I asked Klaus about some new tubed preamp that was running all over the internet, and told him I was in the market for a new preamp that had to be tubed. He said he'd build me one, but couldn't give me a delivery date. Fine with me, I said you got the numbers and know where the money's at so build it. About two months later I was breaking it in (he'd been trying to get ahold of me for about ten days while I was on a fishing trip). Turned out that I had the second or third one built, and the second one shipped (Rosco's got the first one). While I was waiting Klaus did touch base with me a couple times wanting to know if all was well with the amps, and he did the same with the preamp for as long as six months. Can I ask you if any manufacturer has ever done that for you? I already know that answer, just as most everyone else here does.
     So now I'm in the speaker hunt, and who's the first gut to come to my aid? Klaus of course! He's even helped with the wood selection instead of just handing me a catalog.
Then I dropped another anvil in his lap a few weeks ago. I want LP racks that match the color of my speakers. Everybody said I was nuts, except for one person. He said he was going to make a couple contacts for me. Where's the other guys?
                                       *********************
So what should Klaus do? Well I guess he could open a "boutique" shoow room up in Broadripple. Add another thousand dollars to the price of each amp. Have a half dozen plasma TVs with the name Odyssey rebadged on them. A wet bar (now I might be interested in that part), and some pretty girls to help me buy things. And of course advertise in Stereophile and TAS just to get that much needed review. I think I'm gonna pass.
gary

[mcullinan]

Klaus is a great guy. He works to the best of his ability with his time and resources to accomodate everyone. At least in my experience.
Mike

[soundbitten1]

He did alright by me . I ordered a Stratos and he delivered it in the time frame that was promised . Communication ( by phone ) was great and his advice in all audio matters was thoroughly helpful .

[geezer]

It seems to have been well established by now that in many cases Klaus's customer relations have been good to absolutely outstanding.  This makes it all the harder to understand what happened with vr3. What I'd like to know is whether his was a singular example or, if not, how often does such disasters occur. Has anyone else had really bad experiences? Or, failing that, I'd like to hear from Klaus. It would be illuminating if someone who knows him could get him to explain the problem he had with vr3.

[Wolfman]

Well,hopefully this won't turn into another "mclsound" thread. I haven't bought from Klaus for some time,it's very possible that they're even busier now than a couple of years ago. Hopefully not from a lack of sleep angle,poor guy was working 18 hours a day then.

Mistakes happen,certain problems affect very small manufacturers much more than large companies.
However,a few things come to mind. First,RMAF is going to slow down Odyssey. Getting ready for the show,dealing with orders,that show is a fact of life for Odyssey,and the resulting possible slow down after has to be taken into consideration.

Vr3- two things,it has always to my knowledge that Klaus puts repairs on the top of the list,even before completing new orders,you should'nt have any concerns on that front. Many people should be able to back me up there.

Is it me missing something in the ensuing pages,or are you really using your OP as a way to let Klaus know you no longer want the original amps!?!? Are you kidding me? Sorry pal,that's low class. I can feel your pain on the long delay. Once in awhile things fall together just wrong and someone takes a bit of a hit. Could be that distinction fell to you,here. Bummer.

BUT,now Klaus has a pair of amps in some form of completion,that he has to find a way to sell. Nice. Least you could've done is have the guts to pick up that phone you claim to frequently use and tell the Man in person you don't want the amps anymore. Instead you cop out here. Man that's CS. I'm trying to feel for you here,but that single move makes it tough.

Possibly Klaus has some things to fix. Don't feel you don't,also. I would pick up the phone(if you haven't already),and talk to Klaus. He's a very understanding guy and has never tried to hide from any mistakes he's made. He'll make it right.

[Vr3]

You are right, I probally should call Klaus...

At the same time, he probally should have called me -- about 1-2 months ago...

Working retail for almost 2 years has made me very very very jaded to having sympathy for customers and or retailers/manufactures...

Buying/Selling is a 50/50 commitment.

I'll give you an example..

A lady came in to the store the other day, and purchased 4 keyboards from me, with the possibility of 8 more...

We are talking almost 12,000 possible dollars here...

I have three ways to go about this sale...

1) Take her money, order it - and call her when it gets here, regardless of time

or

2) Take her money, order it, and call her about every 7 days, to give her updates on the status of her order... in, not in, expected dates...

or

3) Take her money, order it, let them come in, and let her call me to see if they have come in and check on the status

Now, out of the three, which to you sounds better?

Ok, and lets say for instance I did number three, do you really think this lady is going to order the other possibly 8 keyboards from me?

Probally not, because there are a dime a dozen other manufactures out there that will offer a better service for me for around the same money...

But, I'm going to do number two, infact, I will call her tommorow to let her know her items have been ordered, and I will call yamaha to make sure they got the order and to get an EST date of arrival, and I will call her back to let her know that as well?

The simple reason why I will go this extra mile is because she has trusted me enough to spend her, and her students money....

And a sale of this size, deserves extra attention... and extra attention she will get...

The customer is always right, even if they are being moronic, selffish pricks and raising hell. Now - I'm a very reasonable guy, if Klaus would of called me a month ago and said hey man, we have a slight delay... blah blah blah

I'd still have a hot rodded Khartago and be happy as a clam, still waiting on those amps...

But the fact that my purchase was not important enough to him to call me to let me know a small update -- a 2 second phone call...

A call that is not my job...

I like Odyssey and have praised them from every possible angle....

However I am not, and will not be jaded by brand loyalty -- every encounter has the possibility of a different outcome with me...

Now, I will buy more Odyssey products, and every time I try to buy them, I will give Klaus the first go around. I want to support him, but, when it seems like Klaus dosnt want me to support him, I dont know what else I can do...

I'm not trying to make excuses... I just refuse to bring brand loyalty into this, it is what it is.

I was not contacted on any delays past mid September - I called Klaus last around the mid September, and heard my amps would go out before he left the country. I was one of five pairs sitting ready to go... awaiting power supplies I beleive it was...

Well, came the time for him to leave the country, I had no amps...

I received no phone call...

After 5-6 months of trying, I let it ride out and stopped bugging him...

Seemed like he kind of forgot about it...

A guy I met at an audio gathering and talked to a few times on another forum, had the same amps up for sale at an insane deal... He had been trying to sell them just about the entire time I had been waiting on my new ones... so I eventually said - lets do it..

I dont know, I'm a very honest guy, and I'm patient -- all while being reasonable and rational...

I want the service I give at the store I work for, I want to be treated like I'm spending the most money out of all his customers, even though I'm not...

Klaus has done that for me numerous times, he just happened to not pull through this time...

I heard about this happening to a few other people around the same time as me...

And about 4 or 5 others have PMd' me saying the exact same thing...

I'm not alone, I just don't mind bringing it to the table in a public venue....

A personal phone call, while more professional would of been better in the sense of overall presentation.... but I'm not the most versed person or as well thought out over the phone -- thus would not get my point across and not have near the impact as this has had I imagine..

I think I've counted about 3 people disagree with me to an extent...

And there has also been praise to Klaus

I am just afraid that if some things arnt changed, Odyssey may gain the rep that...

"Odyssey has excellent products, extreme bang for the buck, but you may have to wait a little while to get your stuff..."

And in todays fast paced world of I want it tommorow, I dont know if thats such a good thing...

I waited roughly 6-7 months just to get those amps, and eventually just in essence gave up...

I just dont know what else to tell you... 

[klaus@odyssey]

OK,  time to churn in here:

I am not mad at Trey whatsoever.  In fact I like him a lot,  and we have talked many times over the past couple of years.  I know that he is very happy with our gear,  and that he helped me out a few times with word of mouth stuff.  And yes,  I totally understand that he is disappointed,  and I have to get my act together on his gear.

Now,  as a little background here,  I helped out Trey a lot in the spring,  did some things that I usually never ever do,  but I felt that it was the right thing to do after all.  When we talked about upgrading the amps,  I also pretty much agreed to do a special custom job for Trey and with taking his amps in trade,  even for a near zero sum profit.  No problem,  BUT  I also told him that it takes some time and that he has to take a back seat for now.

While I envisioned 2 - 3 months to get stuff done,  a few things happened:

-  to be blunt,  I completely messed up on his order,  and it is my fault.   Geeez,  I am simply getting           senile here. 
-  I had the summer from hell.  In a good way.  The amount of upgrades we did in the past 6 months is ridiculous.  So,  between that and regular orders,  there was always an overload of work to do.  And yes,  with such a workload, I have had several instances where I kind of promised delivery dates,  but just couldn't meet them this year.  A combination of booming business and vendor problems,  in especially with metal and with the Plitron transformers didn't help either.  AAaaaaaargh.
- lastly,  Trey told me several times to take money out of his account,  and I have always told him that I'll do it when I'm ready,  and haven't taken a penny out yet for the amps.

So,  yes, it is my fault,  overworked,  senile,  or not.
Trey,  call me tomorrow night,  and let me see how I can rectify this situation.  You have reason to be disappointed,  but let me make it up to you.

Late,

Klaus

[klaus@odyssey]

Re-reading the posts:

1.  Web site.  Actually working on it quite a bit.  Sadly,  only in spurs when time permits.  Actually,  Alex will finish up some photo shoots, and he saw the site outlines.  He can probably attest that things are coming along,  albeit slowly.

2.  Business model.  Don't get me wrong,  while I think that we are very unusual (hell,  from day one with the SL  designs for 70 % + off,  if you think about it) I didn't plan to be idiosyncratic.  I am somewhat comfortable with it because in all honesty,  it gives me a chance to get away with some things that a business in any other "normal"  industry would not.  However,  I also realize that it is not the best and most efficient way to conduct business.

3.  As for professionalism.  Let me be very straight here.  I hate it when companies in this hobby industry get out their suites and their sweet phone voice divas as a professional front.  If I wanted to do that,  I would have chosen a completely different paths where I don't have to work as much,  and hell,  where I could actually make some serious dough.  I love what I do.  Even now,  after thousands of amps,  whenever I finish up a unit,  I feel accomplished.  Whenever I hear a positive feedback and true satisfaction and/or happiness from a customer,  I am still only seconds away from a boner.  For me everything I do is a "labor of love",  corny or not.

4.  Personal contact.  The absolutely last thing that I ever want to do is an order form on the web site.  Well,  maybe if I sell premanufactured digital amps or rebadged stuff that I can warehouse.  Maybe then.
No,  I am not playing by the rules.  I don't have tons of advertising.  I try to avoid tons of "professional"  reviews.  From day one I squarely tried to kill everybody else with the sound of the products (again,  having Symphonic Line was priceless) and absolutely planned a killer price / performance ratio.  Of coyrse,  not being as smart as I always thought I am,  I should have raised the prices quite a bit.  BUT  I tried to sell 10 k - 36 k amps and 20 k turntables and 5 k cartridges for years.  Tried,  because in this price range you are getting killed by Krell and co,  by the suites who mangle you,  by many asshole customers whose arrogance is directly linked to the size of their stock portfolio,  by ruthless dealers (NY,  anybody)  who try to push you out of the market,  because your product just kills what they have in their stores,  and in turn they are not able to carry your SL  because the other big companies have a financial and political stranglehood over them.    It absolutely sucked,  and the only reason why I kept going on was because,  and especially with a small child,  I had to.  Didn't have an alternative at that time,  and I was in too deep.

5.  And of course,  I planned on doing manufacturing myself,  starting Odyssey.  Nevermind the problems with others I had in the beginning,  the actual final start of the complete "real"  line up in 2000  was a wetdream.  From the 3rd month on or so,  I had been in a back order situation.  For one,  immediate sales by people who knew about Sl  and couldn't afford the big prices.  Then,  of course,  immediate and unbelievable word of mouth from my customers.  It was amazing,  absolutely mindblowing in fact,  how many direct neighbors of customers ordered.  Man oh man,  I really hit an "owner's pride"  nerve. And since the end of 2000,  I have not been below 4 weeks back order.  Not a single month.   And towering above all was the realization that I was able,  actually able,  to realize a model in this hobby and industry that I love so much,  where I could put a little of myself into it.  Where I was able to offer people exactly what I was looking for:  ridiculous bargains that are first rate and a direct, personal, and even "buddy" and "friend" contact with my customers.  To date,  I have standing invitations from well over a hundred customers from staying for a Park City ski vacation in their homes,  to dinner,  to house sitting in the caribbean islands.  I have made many friends,  and it is fantastic.

6.  Coming back to # 4.  I also discovered right away that this direct thing, (and think back to 2000) gives me a break and freedom from all of the political and cut-throat bullshit that I encountered all the time before.  And most importantly,  I didn't have to deal with the rich guys anymore,  but instead with people in the real world.  Unbelievable freedom.  Man oh man,  I was able to really talk with most customers about anything,  on an equal basis,  and based upon this incredible relationship with the customer,  I tried to put customer service on the very top.  Yes,  of course it is good as a business model,  but it really started out as doing favors to others,  when I really discovered as to how deeply grateful people were about it.  And yep,  it felt great.

7.  Since 2000,  I tried to become more professional,  in a mainstream kind of way.  Like when I put up a real website for the first time,  and actually hired more people.  At one point,  I had 7 employees,  and yes,  they were needed to catch up at that time,  but it also meant something else:  If I want to continue with this "professional" and growth trend,  I have to change into a more unpersonal way of doing business,  and I would have to raise the costs big time.  For the very first time I realized as to how potentially deadly overhead costs can be.  You have to sustain x amount of business and margins,  and I think this is the premier reason why so many small companies fail.  Not realizing this particular danger.  So,  when I got over the (3 month back then) backorder hump,  I went back to a smaller model,  where I can be much more happy,  and where I can put myself into the product and be able to be there for the customer.

8.  Now,  one thing that is a negative for this model is that at times I have to put in un-godly amounts of time.  I'm sure that most small business owners can attest to,  but you have to understand that this is a true family business.  Well,  was before the divorce,  but the feeling is still there,  and I would never want to lose this intimate feeling.  So,  with many more products out there another trend emerges:   that of repairs,  be it a failure or customer error or even LED burn-outs,  etc.,  and upgrades.  And I just can't take a customer for a ride with upgrades when I already profited from him before.  So,  tons of stuff piles on,  and I noticed that I am actually at the end of my mental capabilities of memory.  I never used to have to write down anything,  and things just got organized.  You know,  the German thing.   However,  that changed,  and from time to time I started to forget some stuff,  and messed up.  Also,  there is always a "priority" in some form that always seem to mess up any well oiled production machine.  Yes,  we build to  order,  which is the only way when you are back ordered that much,  and especially this year I have had some serious hick-ups with vendors, production, and customers,  but I am trying to rectify everything,  especially now,  where we have speaker cabinets build in Indy,  and where Alex has the vendor problems on the Candela solved.


9.  We are now approaching 5,000 products with nearly 3,000 customers.  Of course not everything goes perfect in so many ways with so many people.  And yes,  contacts were overwhelmingly wonderful,  but of course,  I also had to deal with some real &*%^^%)*).   And yes,  along the lines I lost so much business to cancellations for reasons mentioned before,  that another company could have existed from.    And yes,  I could have made more money,  could have projected a different profile etc.,  but it wouldn't have been the same ride.


To sum it up:  yes,  we can, should,  and will improve in several areas. 
No,  I won't stop to be there for the customer with a personal touch of a small family business,  be it at 4 pm. or at night if I'm working.
No,  I won't stop to make sure that people are happy.  If I forget,  just remind me,  and I'll try to be more on it.

And ABSOLUTELY NOPE,  I won't stop making kickass stuff for the best $ that I know how.


All the best to all of you who support me,

Klaus
No

[TomS]

Thanks Klaus.  As usual, no hiding from anything, and totally from the heart, like it or not.

I've resisted posting on this thread until now, but now that it's all out there, one thing no one really hit on is that he doesn't take a penny from those (yes even long overdue ones) orders until you're getting the gear.  I can't tell you how many times in the past couple of years, the manufacturers I was buying from essentially said, "Pay up front x% or all of it, and I'll let you know when it's ready"  Then no word, no updates, just empty delivery promises, on and on.  These are very well known pieces of gear that cost many thousands, that I waited months to well over a year for.  They had part or all of my cash to finance the build or whatever.  Just doesn't happen here, not part of the model, at least for me.  It IS like family, where a handshake is good.  Sadly, it's rare these days.

Tom

[satfrat]

AS much as i can understand some folks frustration and/or disappointments, I also understand Klaus and his "end of the day" commitment to his customers. I myself have been on both sides of the fence here but Klaus bent over backwards to make me happy and honor our transaction, even tho I'm sure he took as much (if not more) of a hit on $$$ as I did with time. But because the love my 4 Lorelei's have shown me and will continue to show me til the day i die, I owe Klaus more than words can offer him. (that's for your boner ) I can only speak highly to anyone I talk to on how his prize loudspeaker, the Lorelei, has ennriched my life. Going on 4 years now and they still captivate me for hours on end everytime I fire them up. I'm finishing up a 19 hour day with them as I type, now that's captivation! 

I've always wished Klaus my best wishes for a long and profitable career,,,, I wanta see the big guy around to honor that 20 year warranty of his! 

Cheers,
Robin

[Rocket]

Hi Guys,

I think this thread should be locked.  Klaus has said everything that needed to be said and continuing with further posts is pointless.

I personally wouldn't work the hours that Klaus does.

Regards

Rod

[yooper]

Klaus,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, some business ethics, and a little history.   It was a good read and I think it helps to better put things in perspective. 


Mark

[Eric]

Klaus' response tells me that he understands the importance of being teachable. Even the best of us have areas that need improvement. Klaus listened to criticism and screened it for that which he could apply for improvement. That is awesome!!

[Whitese]

Klaus' desire to operate in the best interest of the customer is basically unheard of..almost not human.

Will he be perfect, I doubt it...but neither is any business, ever!   But the openess is what makes for a better understanding and loyalty. 

[saisunil]

Hi Klaus,

I have spoken with you but do not own your products - I found my audio destiny with Paul at Tube Research Labs.

Your response holds amazing transparency and exemplary and inspiring human behaviour.

Take care of your health.
Thank you for sharing your sincere and deep felt thought and feelings.

All the best
Sunil.

[Zero]

Whenever I hear a positive feedback and true satisfaction and/or happiness from a customer,  I am still only seconds away from a boner.

Now THATS sig worthy. 

[Vr3]

I appreciate your truthful and detailed response Klaus

I will give you a call tonight and perhaps we can work out something and still come out good!

[xsb7244]

Hi Klaus,
when it comes to SS power amps you are the MAN, the best bang for the money.  are you sure you can
keep up with the demand?  folks you are going to wait longer for your amps.  but it is worth the wait.
would it be better to offer fewer products ( a lot to choose from ) ?  a bigger operation brings bigger
problems.