Your First Time Listening Experience to Salksound!

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K Shep

Re: Your First Time Listening Experience to Salksound!
« Reply #20 on: 22 Jul 2010, 02:54 am »
Many links to listening evaluations can be found here under the "delivered" section.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=68360.msg632806#msg632806

Wow Bob,

Thank you for pointing out the links to each new Salk owners impressions.  I didn't realize you'd done all of that work.  Great job!

Nuance

Re: Your First Time Listening Experience to Salksound!
« Reply #21 on: 22 Jul 2010, 03:18 am »
Many congrats, Bill!  I am very happy to hear you're liking your new toys.  Welcome to the Salk family; now bring on the pics!

Saturn94

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Re: Your First Time Listening Experience to Salksound!
« Reply #22 on: 27 Jul 2010, 05:48 pm »
WARNING: LONG POST.....

I'm not very good at describing speaker sound, but I'll attempt to describe what I heard on a recent visit to Dennis's (thanks Dennis!).  Another local SongTower owner also joined us.  I should note that I'm describing only what I heard.  It was quickly apparent that Dennis has a much more decerning/educated ear than me.  As such, he could give a much better desciption of the differences (Dennis, you are welcome to post your impressions/opinions of my ADS, good or bad; it won't hurt my feelings :)).  Also, I will focus on comparing the differences between my speakers and the Salks, rather than trying to describe the sound of the Salks.  Many others have already done so and I will say they are not wrong.

As some of you may know, I'm looking for possible replacements for my ADS L1290's that I've been enjoying the past 24 years.  I was very happy to have the opportunity to take my speakers to Dennis's since he has the equipment/setup that allows a direct/instant A/B comparison (this eliminates the problem of short audio memory and was an extremely valuable tool, IMO).  He was also able to take some measurements on my ADS.

First we did some listening tests using various recordings I brought as well as some that Dennis had (he had one recording that was absolutely stunning!).  Along with my ADS he had the HT2-TL and SoundScape hooked up (I focused mainly on the HT2-TL since the SoundScape is out of my price range).

Switching back and forth, at first it just sounded like different flavors of two excellent speakers with the ADS having an overall brighter character.  Neither speaker sounded "wrong".  The SongTower owner and I agreed on this, but Dennis probably wondered what in the world we were hearing, or not hearing :lol:!  Dennis can certainly pick out what's going on much quicker than me.

After continued listening between the HT2-TL and the ADS, it became obvious that something was different in the midrange.  The ADS had a more recessed, nasal quality and the HT2-TL was more foward and fuller in the midrange. The more I listened, the more it sounded like some midrange details were being lost when switched to the ADS and the nasal quality became more obvious.

When Dennis took some measurements on the ADS, it became more clear what was going on.  The ADS has a dip in response around the crossover region between the midrange and tweeter, and the tweeter output was elevated a little relative to the rest of the frequency band.  Below and above the response dip, everything was very smooth.  The ADS does have a switch that reduces tweeter output, but it was still elevated slightly even when switching to a lower output setting.  By contrast, the HT2-TL is very flat through the crossover region and on through the teble region without the elevation in tweeter output like the ADS.

In the treble range, the two sounded remarkably similar (both are excellent) except that the ADS had an overall brighter character for reasons described above.

Imaging and soundstage was excellent on both, although to my ear the ADS speakers "disappeared" a little more than the HT2-TL.  In other words, it was a little more difficult to locate the ADS in the soundstage than the HT2-TL.  This may be caused by the ADSs more recessed midrange.  Don't get me wrong, the HT2-TL was still excellent in this regard, it's just a small difference between the two I noticed.

In terms of bass, the HT2-TL showed it's superiority below about 40hz or so.  It was downright scary at times what the HT2-TL can do in this area.  In the region above 40hz or so, I would say both are equally capable in terms of quantity and quality of bass.

Overall output and dynamics were equally impressive in both speakers.  In neither case did you get the sense that the speaker was limiting the dynamics of the recording even at some scary listening levels.

After a bit more listening and switching back and forth I would say that I prefered the HT2-TL overall to my ADS.  Both were excellent, but the HT2-TL certainly represents an upgrade.  Of course the difficult question that only I can answer in the end is whether or not the HT2-TL is a $$$$ improvement over the ADS.

I found it very interesting that Dennis didn't use any fancy equipment, interconnects, or speaker wires in our audition.  I think some would be shocked at the modest equipment used.  No matter, there was no problem driving any of the speakers we auditioned to live music levels and I heard nothing but beautiful sound completely filling the good size room (it was larger than my room).  It gave me complete confidence that my own equipment would not be a limiting factor.

Although not the focus of my audition, I did also listen to the SongTower (dome tweeter) and the SoundScape.

As brief as my exposure was to the SoundScape, their superiority was quickly obvious.  If price was no object, I would have run home and placed my order!  The SongTower owner that was with us said I shouldn't listen to speakers I cannot afford, and he was right.  It was almost depressing to think I would have to "compromise" by buying something lesser than the SoundScapes.

The SongTowers surprised me.  They sounded much closer to the HT2-TL than I expected and both sounded better than my ADS overall, although admittedly we didn't do as much A/B'ing with the SongTower (I really didn't expect the SongTower to be better than my ADS).  One could certainly wonder if the HT2-TL is worth twice the price of the SongTower.  And this may prove to be even more true with a RAAL tweeter in the SongTower (not available yet; Dennis is still working on the crossover).  I still prefered the HT2-TL over the SongTower, but they had more in common than differences.  For value for the money, the SongTower is a winner.  It would be interesting to return to Dennis's and do another audition once the SongTower/RAAL tweeter combo is finished.

After leaving Dennis's, I went to the SongTower owner's house (thank you for your generous invitation!) to see what finished Salks look like and do a little more listening (Dennis's speakers are unfinished MDF cabinets......he doesn't need them finished to work on them).  As other owners have mentioned, they are beautifully finished and scream high quality.  The standard cherry finish I saw certainly didn't look like a "standard" speaker finish!

Fortunately we were able to finish all the auditioning before the severe storms came through and knocked out power.  I'm glad I wasn't on the road when they hit.

So will I be replacing my ADS with Salks?  I don't know yet.  The visits were very educational and gave me alot to consider.  Also, I would still like to hear the VMPS RM30, Von Schweikert VR33, and perhaps even the SongTower with the RAAL tweeter.  It's also interesting that once I got home after a 4+ hour drive and listen to my ADS again at home, the differences that were so obvious when doing instant A/B'ing weren't nearly as apparent when listening to just my ADS at home.  This makes it very clear how difficult it is to compare speakers when separated by time and place.

There is one thing that is certain, anyone considering purchasing high quality speakers should put the Salks on their "must hear" list.






« Last Edit: 28 Jul 2010, 02:49 am by Saturn94 »

charmerci

Re: Your First Time Listening Experience to Salksound!
« Reply #23 on: 27 Jul 2010, 07:06 pm »
S94,

Years ago, I had the ADS L810(II) - same drivers smaller cabinet. I loved the tight bass on them and the midrange but over a period of time I came not to able to tolerate the high end. It had a "ssss" in them that bothered me over time. But I've always been super-sensitive to high frequencies.

DMurphy

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Re: Your First Time Listening Experience to Salksound!
« Reply #24 on: 27 Jul 2010, 08:03 pm »
Nice to have you over, Saturn94.  I pretty much agree with everything you said, and thanks for taking the time to say it.  The upper midrange issue was apparent to me as soon as we played the first cut, which had lots of brass content.  The boosted high end took a little longer to register.  I use brass to check crossovers all the time, so I am pretty sensitive to that issue.   I described it as a lack of phase integration, which understandably no one understood.  The audible signs are a lack of clarity and openess, but it often happens when the crossover designer didn't get the relevant two drivers in phase around the croosver region, and they end up fighting each other.  The visable sign is a suckout over the crossover frequencies. 
I'm a little surprised ADS let that one slip by.  It almost looked like they reversed the tweeter setting deliberately.  I probably shouldn't have played the Soundscapes for you--I held off until the very end.  You're welcome to make the trek back up I 95 when i get the RAAL ST's running--assuming the power actually comes on again. 

Saturn94

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Re: Your First Time Listening Experience to Salksound!
« Reply #25 on: 28 Jul 2010, 03:07 am »
S94,

Years ago, I had the ADS L810(II) - same drivers smaller cabinet. I loved the tight bass on them and the midrange but over a period of time I came not to able to tolerate the high end. It had a "ssss" in them that bothered me over time. But I've always been super-sensitive to high frequencies.

I don't know if the L810 was of the same generation of the L1290 or not.  I do remember listening to previous generations of ADS speakers and loving the midrange but not liking the treble for the same reason you mentioned (too bright for me).  The L1290, however, didn't seem have this issue (at least to my ears) and are not at all fatiguing to me even after extended listening sessions.  Even after owning them for 24 years I still enjoy listening to them and do so almost every day.

Thanks for sharing your ADS experience.  I alway enjoy reading other's experiences with them. :)

Nuance

Re: Your First Time Listening Experience to Salksound!
« Reply #26 on: 28 Jul 2010, 03:30 pm »
Thanks so much for taking the time to share your experience with us, Saturn94.  Very cool!

R Swerdlow

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Re: Your First Time Listening Experience to Salksound!
« Reply #27 on: 28 Jul 2010, 05:29 pm »
Saturn94

I was the other ST owner you spoke about, and I agree with all of your comments.  It was fun meeting you :D.  And as always, it was fun comparing speakers at the Secret Salk Laboratories.  Thanks for taking the effort at hauling your ADS speakers all the way from Hampton.

You keep saying that you're not good at talking about the sound of different speakers, but I think you have a well developed sense of what an audio system can and cannot do.  You got good ears :green:.

I'm glad to hear that you made the drive home in only 4 hours.  That was probably the best you could do on a busy Sunday afternoon.

It turns out that the sudden thunder storm that knocked out my power for less than 15 minutes hit others, like Dennis, a lot harder.  I was lucky.  (Dennis - I'm glad to hear that you and your piano are recovering.  Loosing air conditioning in Washington in July for more than a few hours is rough.)

Richard

Saturn94

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Re: Your First Time Listening Experience to Salksound!
« Reply #28 on: 28 Jul 2010, 08:50 pm »
Saturn94

I was the other ST owner you spoke about, and I agree with all of your comments.  It was fun meeting you :D.  And as always, it was fun comparing speakers at the Secret Salk Laboratories.  Thanks for taking the effort at hauling your ADS speakers all the way from Hampton.

You keep saying that you're not good at talking about the sound of different speakers, but I think you have a well developed sense of what an audio system can and cannot do.  You got good ears :green:.

I'm glad to hear that you made the drive home in only 4 hours.  That was probably the best you could do on a busy Sunday afternoon.

It turns out that the sudden thunder storm that knocked out my power for less than 15 minutes hit others, like Dennis, a lot harder.  I was lucky.  (Dennis - I'm glad to hear that you and your piano are recovering.  Loosing air conditioning in Washington in July for more than a few hours is rough.)

Richard

Thanks for the complement.  Compared to many here (at least from reading their posts), I guess it seems like there are far more "experts" here than me. :oops:  I know when I hear something I like, but puting it into words is sometimes difficult.

I'm glad you got to join us and greatly appreciate you letting me see/hear your SongTowers.  Even if it doesn't lead to replacing my ADS, it was very educational and helpful in my search.

I'm very impressed with the level of generosity offered by Salk owners here and those involved with the design.  Everyone I've had contact with has been great.

It's likely I will make another trip up that way.  I still would like to hear the VMPS RM30 for one thing, but also I'm interested in hearing the SongTower with the RAAL tweeter when Dennis finishes the crossover design and would like to spend some more time listening to the HT2-TL without focusing on comparing them to other speakers.

I'll let you know when I make the trip again.

woodsart

Re: Your First Time Listening Experience to Salksound!
« Reply #29 on: 5 Aug 2010, 06:24 pm »

Hey Richard....How are your STs?? I had a great experience with Alex with the speakers and the dome tweet. I assume yours has the dome or do you have the ribbon? I thought I was decided on the dome to cut cost, but if these would sound ok with the dome surrounds and center, then, i may have to take a jump :bounce:

Saturn94 is planning to audition the STs with the RAAL. I guess I will have to wait to hear his thoughts on those. I am getting so anxious, but I need to be patient as avoid  making the wrong decision. However, I don't think any SALK SOUND speaker ensemble would be disappointing.

R Swerdlow

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Re: Your First Time Listening Experience to Salksound!
« Reply #30 on: 5 Aug 2010, 08:03 pm »
Hey Richard....How are your STs?? I had a great experience with Alex with the speakers and the dome tweet. I assume yours has the dome or do you have the ribbon? I thought I was decided on the dome to cut cost, but if these would sound ok with the dome surrounds and center, then, i may have to take a jump :bounce:

Saturn94 is planning to audition the STs with the RAAL. I guess I will have to wait to hear his thoughts on those. I am getting so anxious, but I need to be patient as avoid  making the wrong decision. However, I don't think any SALK SOUND speaker ensemble would be disappointing.

My STs have the standard dome tweeter.  Personally, I notice little difference between ribbon tweet and dome SongTowers unless I can directly compare them side by side.  Both are highly pleasing.

If I were to pay for an upgrade, I'd go straight for the HT2-TL :thumb:.

woodsart

Re: Your First Time Listening Experience to Salksound!
« Reply #31 on: 5 Aug 2010, 09:46 pm »
Thanks, Richard!

I replied on the AVSforum to a statement of someone adding to a 5.1 system. He would be buying 2 HT2-TL, + center and combining these with existing 2 ST surround I speakers (I assume he had two). Have you heard of this? I think, if I am not mistaken Jim suggested the 3 fronts to go with the ST surround I's.

If these, dome and ribbon tweets would work together that might be something to look at.  Assuming, of course,  the HT2-TLs would have ribbon.

 I am in the process of getting pics/room size and wants/needs together to send to Jim. I guess I have reading all about the RAAL and it just caught my eye!

Thanks,
Rob


Nuance

Re: Your First Time Listening Experience to Salksound!
« Reply #32 on: 6 Aug 2010, 04:54 am »
Rob,

My e-mail explains it further, but pairing ribbon fronts (the three fronts) and rear domes will probably go un-noticed for TV and HT.  However, for multi-channel music it's a different story, and I'd highly recommend staying 100% timbre matched.  As always folks, YMMV, of course.