[PRELUDE]

Here is another cheap way to eliminate the noise from your RCA cables.
For MID-FI people,
Wrap your cables with aluminum foil like this and you done.



For HI-FI people,
Wrap your cables with aluminum foil and connect all your cables to the cold pipe line in your house.(green grounding cable is recommended)


+



For HI-FI+ people,
Your dealer knows the best for you and It will always sound better. 

[Rod_S]

...
Bryston uses fully discrete balanced circuits as we feel this is the best way to reduce the negatives but still provide the advantages of balanced lines not being affected by the outside electrical contamination.  The world is becoming inundated with more and more of this electrical interference so I generally recommend to our customers to utilize balanced lines and circuits if you have them (assuming they are implemented with quality and accuracy)
...

Concerning the amps, I thought only the 14, 7 and 28 were fully balanced or am I getting confused with something else with repect to those 3 amps in comparison to the others in the lineup?

[James Tanner]

Concerning the amps, I thought only the 14, 7 and 28 were fully balanced or am I getting confused with something else with repect to those 3 amps in comparison to the others in the lineup?

Hi

Yes there is a difference to the 'fully differential balanced inputs' on a balanced system and an amplifier that is typically referred to as fully balanced throughout its circuitry.

Some products have an XLR input or output but they may not be a true balanced system because they are just providing a convenient XLR type connection -  they are NOT differentially balanced, which you must do to cancel noise (and is done on all Bryston balanced products).

A fully Balanced amplifier though indicates that both the Positive and Negative signals passing through the amplifier have totally separate circuit paths from the input of the amplifier to the output of the amplifier. In other words the balanced differential input signal is not changed to single ended as it travels through the amplifier. Fully balanced amplifiers are the 7B, 14B and 28B in the Bryston lineup.

james

[undertow]

Simple answer - 99.9% of the time for a "Home" use hifi system unless your running really long interconnects of 25 ft or so will net you very little in performance going to pure balanced connections vs. single ended.

Actually "Noise" is the issue here, but even a proper shielded RCA version of the same cable will be just fine normally.

However, also if it is a truly balanced "source and input device" like the bryston components should be you will get additional "gain" and may just work out better as the circuits just perform better that way in your gear.

This extra +6db could be good or bad depending on your systems efficiency, and XLR all the way might be a bit to hot causing you to want to turn things down a bit with the volume offsetting the advantages of some other good things XLR can do.

Best bet is just borrow cheap already made XLR cables from your local Guitar store or something and give it a shot. If you feel there is an advantage with your gear ultimately making you like it that way go for better XLR cables, and return the cheap ones.

Honestly truth is from a sonic standpoint if a good single ended circuit is just really good then you will not get more noise, or less performance than the XLR counterpart.

The real reason many times I have run all balanced systems is that in fact sometimes the XLR connection is just superior via locking connectors by nature. Especially if you build your own cables, and XLR ends come at a 5 dollar premium vs. a 50 dollar premium for good RCA jacks so logistically if you can do XLR it just makes sense. Of course you can always get cheaper RCA ends as well, but just making a point.

In any case I have gone 100% full balanced systems including phono stages etc... But have gone back to single ended systems that sound even better. Really comes down to the proper components, and design in the first place that gets you there.

[RDavidson]

That makes sense. Fully balanced circuits are expensive, so only the upper crust products have the full treatment. Glad you pointed this out, James. I thought all Bryston gear was fully balanced (not that it would sway a buying decision either way), but it's still always good to have facts straight.

[Rod_S]

One kind of advantage of balanced connections is simply the locking nature of the connector. Since not everyone knows about or uses locking RCA's this can provide that feature. However the loacking aspect needs to be implemented on the device side and Bryston has moved away from having the XLR's actually lock the cable in place, well on certain products anyways. My 28B-SST²'s purchased last year are an example. My 4B and 6B purchased back in 2006 lock the cables.

[James Tanner]

One kind of advantage of balanced connections is simply the locking nature of the connector. Since not everyone knows about or uses locking RCA's this can provide that feature. However the loacking aspect needs to be implemented on the device side and Bryston has moved away from having the XLR's actually lock the cable in place, well on certain products anyways. My 28B-SST²'s purchased last year are an example. My 4B and 6B purchased back in 2006 lock the cables.

Hi

Yes we moved away from it as we were concerned that if the cable was pulled it would damage the connector or cable rather than just let it pull free.

james

[Rod_S]

So are the locking mechanisms now gone on all of the Bryston balanced interfaces? When was this change implemented? Was it an all at once change or something that was phased in over time to the different products i.e. amps (all or per model), then SSP, etc.

[James Tanner]

So are the locking mechanisms now gone on all of the Bryston balanced interfaces? When was this change implemented? Was it an all at once change or something that was phased in over time to the different products i.e. amps (all or per model), then SSP, etc.

just on the newer gear like the 28B

james

[Rod_S]

Ah interesting, so models that have been around for years are actually still being made with the locking connectors. So why not update the older models as well? Do they not accomodate the lock-less type connector wihtout modifying the design?

[James Tanner]

Ah interesting, so models that have been around for years are actually still being made with the locking connectors. So why not update the older models as well? Do they not accomodate the lock-less type connector wihtout modifying the design?

Hi

Correct the rear panel would have to change.

james

[Rod_S]

Ah gotcha, thanks

[Speedskater]

Hi Folks,
There are advantages and disadvantages to Balanced lines (much like most choices in life). 
Single Ended connections have 2 conductors - positive and ground, Balanced connections have 3 conductors - positive/negative and ground.
....................................... .......
Hope this helps.
james

Nit picking here.
A balanced interconnect system has:
2 conductors - positive/negative
1 shield
There is no ground wire in a balanced system just a shield connected to the chassis (the circuit ground is also connected to the chassis).
At the receive end the shield may or may not be connected to the chassis or it may have a hybrid connection.

[alexone]

just on the newer gear like the 28B

james

...i have a 875HT amp (i believe made in 2004) - it has no locking xlr connectors.

al.

[robb]

I have read somewhere that an additional benefit of using balanced cables is that they help the power supplies respond more quickly and accurately to the input, thus improving dynamics and transient response.  ???

[Speedskater]

I have read somewhere that an additional benefit of using balanced cables is that they help the power supplies respond more quickly and accurately to the input, thus improving dynamics and transient response.  ???

In a word
no

The only thing a balanced interconnect system does is it reduces noise and interference.

[EvanMcC]

Hey everyone,

I posted the original question about going balanced - thanks so much for all the awesome feedback - especially nice to see James chime in. As a newbie poster on here, I'm always impressed with the huge wealth of knowledge out there and people's willingness to help out. Great to be able to communicate with the manufacturer this way too. So thanks everyone!

I ended up picking up a set of SignalCable Analog 2 balanced cables after all. Two reasons: it allows me to do a 1-month amp-swap with my father in law's Accustic Arts Amp I (XLR inputs only), and it's the first step in the direction of having a fully balanced signal path - someday I hope to have a nicer source that will allow for this. Wonder what my father in law will think of the 4B SST in his system instead of his Accustic Arts - he runs Sugden pre and the great Harbeth M40.1 speakers.

Also bought the SignalCable MagicPower power cord to feed in my Blue Circle PLC Thingee - already had this cable on my 4B SST and now will have one powering the whole system from the wall, with the 4B plugged into it since it's not supposed to limit current.

Hoping these two cables will be upgrades from my old Cardas RCA's and home-brew power cable. They shipped today so maybe I'll do another post after Christmas once they're run-in.

Thanks!

[Freo-1]

Hi

Yes there is a difference to the 'fully differential balanced inputs' on a balanced system and an amplifier that is typically referred to as fully balanced throughout its circuitry.

Some products have an XLR input or output but they may not be a true balanced system because they are just providing a convenient XLR type connection -  they are NOT differentially balanced, which you must do to cancel noise (and is done on all Bryston balanced products).

A fully Balanced amplifier though indicates that both the Positive and Negative signals passing through the amplifier have totally separate circuit paths from the input of the amplifier to the output of the amplifier. In other words the balanced differential input signal is not changed to single ended as it travels through the amplifier. Fully balanced amplifiers are the 7B, 14B and 28B in the Bryston lineup.

james

I agree with this.  I have a Electrocompaniet SS setup, consisting of the ECC-1, EC-4.7, and AW2-120.  All circuitry from the CD through the preamp to the power amp are fully balanced, and it makes a significant difference in overall sound quality.  Low level detail is much improved, as is the noise floor, which is lower.  Also seems to portray more dynamic contrasts.

[SFOX]

I have a BP-6 with 4B-SST2 and BDA-1/BDP-1 and am considering upgrading to BP-26/MPS-2 with balanced cables vs single-ended cables with BP-6 - would there be significant difference in sound ? 

[redbook]

  All I can say is with my 4B and the BP25 there was a significant improvement