Review: take SACD and BlURay Hirez directly to your DAC!!!!

Phil A · « **Reply #320 on:** 9 May 2011, 12:49 am »

I gave the Sony another shot tonight. I located two identical HDMI cables as well. I started with the Oppo. Played fine and the DAC displayed 88.2kHz. After that I tried the Sony. The DAC displayed 176.4kHz but like before no sound. I connected an HDMI cable to the pre/pro and turn that on and did get sound. However, as reported much earlier in the thread, to me what I hear sounds degraded with an output cable. I listened to a bunch of things, including sinking the two copies of Kind of Blue (and swapping them too). Not much difference and to me once I removed the cable to the pre/pro and turned it off the Oppo sounded better. Definitely was a strange experience though. I hope the BDP 93 works out. It will probably be a few weeks but I think I'm going to be putting that in the main system (from the bedroom system) and move the modded BDP-83 to the bedroom (or perhaps sell it).

adol290 · « **Reply #321 on:** 17 May 2011, 04:40 pm »

Phil,

Can you please explain your hardware flow.

When playing a DVD-A from your blu-ray player,
you output HDMI to the monoprice
output SPDIF from monoprice to BDA-1

Output from the BDA-1 with ?

into which pre/pro
which inputs on the pre/pro

Phil A · « **Reply #322 on:** 17 May 2011, 04:59 pm »

I use both sets of analog outs on the BDA-1. The main system backs to the bedroom system (my system pics are in my gallery). The balanced analog outs from the BDA-1 go into my Modwright LS36.5DM preamp. The RCA outs go to the bedroom system. I have 4 sources hooked to the BDA-1. HDMI Audio De-embedder, Squeezebox Touch, Marantz DV9600 universal which I use as a CD transport and I have a modded Oppo BDP-83. Since I prefer going through the de-embedder for hi-rez PCM extracted from the Oppo into the BDA-1, I'm likely going to move (or sell) the modded BDP-83 to the bedroom system and move the BDP-93 I have in the bedroom system into the main system. The BDP-93 has the two HDMI outs so I can have one going to the pre/pro and one to the DAC. Yes, the de-embedder is a switch but it seems to sound a bit better with nothing connected to the output to me (I also have an upgraded power supply for the de-embedder - anything that will work for the Squeezebox Touch will work it it - I have the Channel Islands - ciaudio.com). I also have a small 19 inch LCD monitor about 6 feet from my chair (attached a pic so you can get an idea). I have a switch into that so I can view things like DVD-A menus without turning on the projector or change settings on the Oppo or Marantz (connected composite video to it.

Phil A · « **Reply #323 on:** 17 May 2011, 05:05 pm »

Hope it helps and I wasn't too confusing. I have a composite video switch on the little TV and I can view a picture of my front door (I have it piped all around with a 5.8G wireless sender receiver and then hardwired to different rooms) and can also change or view menus. I used to have a DVD recorder hooked to it as well and it make it easy when I dubbed something from an old mini-DV camcorder so I could view without turning on the projector. I have a lot of equipment in the main system. Behind the couch in the rear center of the photo is my Bryston 6BSST which drives the center and surrounds and an old Marantz monoblock for the rear center. That sub on the far side of the room is a Rel Strata II for the rear Thiel Power Points - you can see one above the tree

adol290 · « **Reply #324 on:** 17 May 2011, 05:29 pm »

Thanks,

Help's a lot. I was looking at going Hirez, but my pre/pro is not up to par for the job.

I am running an Integra 9.8(used for movies/concerts), hardly good enough to do it justice.

I would have to get a good pre - like the BP26, plus the BDA-1.

My blu-ray is the marantz BD8002. I was looking at upgrading to the Oppo 95.

So, a costly upgrade at this point.

ted_b · « **Reply #325 on:** 17 May 2011, 05:31 pm »

Phil,
I think I now understand why you can run the Monoprice without an HDMi cable on the backend.....your Oppo ALREADY has a handshake with its second HDMi cable. !

jjc1 · « **Reply #326 on:** 17 May 2011, 06:49 pm »

Quote from: Phil A on 17 May 2011, 04:59 pm

I use both sets of analog outs on the BDA-1. The main system backs to the bedroom system (my system pics are in my gallery). The balanced analog outs from the BDA-1 go into my Modwright LS36.5DM preamp. The RCA outs go to the bedroom system. I have 4 sources hooked to the BDA-1. HDMI Audio De-embedder, Squeezebox Touch, Marantz DV9600 universal which I use as a CD transport and I have a modded Oppo BDP-83. Since I prefer going through the de-embedder for hi-rez PCM extracted from the Oppo into the BDA-1, I'm likely going to move (or sell) the modded BDP-83 to the bedroom system and move the BDP-93 I have in the bedroom system into the main system. The BDP-93 has the two HDMI outs so I can have one going to the pre/pro and one to the DAC. Yes, the de-embedder is a switch but it seems to sound a bit better with nothing connected to the output to me (I also have an upgraded power supply for the de-embedder - anything that will work for the Squeezebox Touch will work it it - I have the Channel Islands - ciaudio.com). I also have a small 19 inch LCD monitor about 6 feet from my chair (attached a pic so you can get an idea). I have a switch into that so I can view things like DVD-A menus without turning on the projector or change settings on the Oppo or Marantz (connected composite video to it.

Phil, how do you connect the HDMI output to the DAC? I have an older Oppo with an HDMI output which I wud like to connect to my BDA1 and maybe get sacd music. What imput wud I use on the BDA1? Is there a cable with HDMI on one end and a digital connector on the other end?

Phil A · « **Reply #327 on:** 18 May 2011, 01:12 am »

You use the HDMI audio de-embedder. Monoprice product ID 5557. I have an old Oppo DV980H in the secondary basement system connected to an Emotiva DAc as well

Phil A · « **Reply #328 on:** 18 May 2011, 01:14 am »

Quote from: ted_b on 17 May 2011, 05:31 pm

Phil,
I think I now understand why you can run the Monoprice without an HDMi cable on the backend.....your Oppo ALREADY has a handshake with its second HDMi cable. !

Ted - no I'm using the BDP-83 - just one HDMI out. I want to use the 93 so I don't have to swap cables

Phil A · « **Reply #329 on:** 18 May 2011, 01:15 am »

Quote from: adol290 on 17 May 2011, 05:29 pm

Thanks,

Help's a lot. I was looking at going Hirez, but my pre/pro is not up to par for the job.

I am running an Integra 9.8(used for movies/concerts), hardly good enough to do it justice.

I would have to get a good pre - like the BP26, plus the BDA-1.

My blu-ray is the marantz BD8002. I was looking at upgrading to the Oppo 95.

So, a costly upgrade at this point.

I use an Integra 9.8 for movies too

Phil A · « **Reply #330 on:** 18 May 2011, 01:16 am »

Monoprice de-embedder - http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10110&cs_id=1011002&p_id=5557&seq=1&format=2

jamesg11 · « **Reply #331 on:** 21 May 2011, 07:27 am »

In Aust's Stereonet this is significant - a long running thread of someone using atlona 577 from sony & oppo, & then attempting to record, finally gives up because of poor dsd conversion quality!:

"This morning I plugged my BDP-S370 into my Thor PS10, and re-tried the 24/176.4 capture of track 5. Still the same result, jaggies.
I'm resigned to the fact that the BDP-S370 is a compromise for SACD playback. As is the Oppo.
It's taken significant time and energy to this point in pursuing this capture method, and my conclusion is that the DSD2PCM conversion chip/step in the players is critical to the end result. I could continue on by finding a player with a better conversion chip for this capture task, such an Arcam universal (which is reported to support 24/176.4 pcm output for sacd playback) - but that would mean throwing more money at this, with no certainty that the Arcam is an ideal solution - it may well have it's own compromises.
Interestingly, before I started zenelectro did warn me that what I get will only be as good as the dsd2pcm step in the players, and the filtering used. That turned out to be very true. But I forged on anyway, and have learned alot in the process.
So I'm officially abandoning the capture method, as a means of backup. And after seeing the compromise made on the digital signal, I'm also abandoning this method of playing back sacd's into generic 2ch dacs. My investment in this gear isnt completely wasted, as my backups of Bluray discs has been clean. And I'll be able to use it, for extracting Bluray music to PCM files, or for playing back Bluray concerts into my 2ch dac as opposed to my receiver.
I will be pursuing extraction of DSD files from SACD's, using sacd-ripper and a sacd capable PS3. I'll probably start another thread on this.
Case closed."

tubesguy2 · « **Reply #332 on:** 4 Jun 2011, 01:46 pm »

Just wanted to thank you folks for this thread. I had briefly looked at it when Ted first posted, but the notion of spending roughly $700-750 on a new Oppo and the Atlona kept me from getting really interested. (I only have about 20 SACDs to rip.)

Last weekend I chanced to read the last few pages, and caught the references to the Monoprice box. Hmm, that was more like it, price-wise. Then I started thinking about a suitable player, and saw that the Oppo 670HD was being used. Hey, I knew that I had a 670 at one time and had lent it to a neighbor (she's way cute, what can I say?) so I went down to the basement box storage area and discovered that it was in fact a 670HD. So over to the neighbor (with a Denon for replacement loan), and I've got my SACD recording station for a total outlay of $45.

Took a bit of screwing around with setup for the 670HD (hint: there is none, the PCM settings in the menu are without effect on the SACD/PCM conversion/streaming) and a quick re-read of a couple of posts (Monoprice box set to 5.1) and I'm in business.

I'm going to use my Alesis Masterlink to rip to its CD24 format (AIFF) and then on to the computer for conversion to FLAC and playback via a Squeezebox Touch. Not sure at this point when and how best to label the tracks, but I'll give it a shot this weekend.

Thanks again, boys. - Pat

ted_b · « **Reply #333 on:** 5 Jun 2011, 08:34 pm »

Gang,
Those of you who own the Atlona 577 I need your help.

I got a message from a very grateful de-embedder user over on Steve Hoffman's forum. He has had great success with the original Atlona 570 (the one I reviewed that started this craze) but is hitting a bump with the newer 577.

He says:
"Now, I have a question: I've been using the Atlona HD570 with an Oppo BD-83 since you first recommended it with great results.
This weekend, I'm trying out the HD577, but I can only get "half" resolution from it. My DAC reports Blu-Ray at 48k and SACD at 44k. Do you think I'm missing a setting somewhere in the Oppo? Or perhaps I got a bad 577?"

Is this where he needs to set it for 5.1 or something? Thx

kdbrink · « **Reply #334 on:** 5 Jun 2011, 08:49 pm »

That was me! This is officially my first post on AudioCircle.

Thank you Ted!

mgalusha · « **Reply #335 on:** 5 Jun 2011, 10:26 pm »

My AD/DA converter shows 88.2 when I feed it from the 577. I'm using a TC Electronic Impact Twin. I get better results using optical from the 577 than with coax. The TC is connected to the PC using IEEE 1934, using Reaper for the recording. Reaper shows 88.2 as well, hopefully it's not lying to me.

dwk · « **Reply #336 on:** 5 Jun 2011, 11:51 pm »

Mike,
Is there a 'recording with Reaper 101' that shows your basic flow out there. I've been using Reaper for a while, but basically as a VST host to apply DSP xovers (their ReaRoute virtual ASIO driver is great for that), so just processing input to output with no file IO. I'm finally on the brink of getting set up with my Atlona 570 and Oppo 970 (at least I think it's a 970), so if I can do the recording with Reaper that would be ideal. I would guess it's straightforward enough aside from track splitting, but since we have a single digital library and like to play it on random with the squeezebox, the splitting is unavoidable.

rbbert · « **Reply #337 on:** 15 Jun 2011, 02:00 am »

I just wanted to confirm what has already been reported for the cheap little Monoprice box; with the Oppo as a source, it will de-embed SACD or DVD-A (DVD-V and CD too, if you want) without being hooked up to a HDMI receiver, just the Oppo as a source.

jjc1 · « **Reply #338 on:** 15 Jun 2011, 06:55 pm »

Quote from: Phil A on 18 May 2011, 01:12 am

You use the HDMI audio de-embedder. Monoprice product ID 5557. I have an old Oppo DV980H in the secondary basement system connected to an Emotiva DAc as well

Phil, don't know if I ever thanked you. I got the Monoprice, used my old Oppo as a transport, connected the Monoprice to my BDA1 with Kimber digital cable then BDA1 tio my amp. The sound was great. When I connect the Oppo directly to my amp, the sound is detailed but very thin. Thru the Monoprice and BDA1, the sound is full, rich and detailed.
Thanks again for the tip.

Phil A · « **Reply #339 on:** 15 Jun 2011, 07:18 pm »

Quote from: jjc1 on 15 Jun 2011, 06:55 pm

Phil, don't know if I ever thanked you. I got the Monoprice, used my old Oppo as a transport, connected the Monoprice to my BDA1 with Kimber digital cable then BDA1 tio my amp. The sound was great. When I connect the Oppo directly to my amp, the sound is detailed but very thin. Thru the Monoprice and BDA1, the sound is full, rich and detailed.
Thanks again for the tip.

That's OK - that's what places like this are here for. If I get a chance this weekend, I may swap my modded BDP-83 and put it in the bedroom system (so I can play all formats I need) and move the BDP-93 from the bedroom system to the main system and take advantage of the dual HDMI outs for music and movies