[ted_b]

HCB,
It has both

[Hear Clifford Brown]

Thanks Ted, was hoping this would be the one.  But Monoprice technical on-line help says the HDMI device the pass through is connected to needs to be turned on for it to pass the audio from either the toslink or the coaxial port.  Does anyone have experience with this switch/de-embedder to confirm this is true?  I don't want to turn the display on when listening to HiRex music. 

[ted_b]

Thanks Ted, was hoping this would be the one.  But Monoprice technical on-line help says the HDMI device the pass through is connected to needs to be turned on for it to pass the audio from either the toslink or the coaxial port.  Does anyone have experience with this switch/de-embedder to confirm this is true?  I don't want to turn the display on when listening to HiRex music.

Only the pre/pro/receiver needs to be on (as you stated, that's what is connected to the de-embedder, right) not the display device.  I don't need my pj on, just my Denon receiver on mute (which I use as a processor)

[Hear Clifford Brown]

Okay that's better, yes it will be connected to the receiver in the HT system.  Looking forward to listening to HiRez, thanks for this circle!

[iceace]

Super interesting circle, this is just what I was looking for.

My TV only accepts up to 48 kHz sample rate as input over HDMI. It does accept 24 bits though. As far as I understand, this means that I will get the benefit of 24 bits, but not get any higher sample rate (88/176/192) by using the Atlona or the Porta/Monoprice boxes, because the TV will do the HDMI handshake and limit the sample rate to 48 kHz.

I checked the newest TV models from Sony and Samsung, and they have exactly the same spec. So this problem would likely apply to most people trying to use such a solution with a TV. I don't have a HT receiver, only a 2 channel stereo where I'd like to get high def sound from SACD and Bluray played on PS3 into my Hegel HD10 DAC.

Is it worth it to get the $40 Monoprice box in order to increase bit rate from 16 to 24? How important is the increased sample rate versus the increased bit rate in HD sound?

What would be the best solutions out there to get 192 kHz also, or at least 88 kHz? I guess I could get the Atlona 577 or the Monoprice + Grefen detective, and then go to a local shop to capture the EDID of a receiver which accepts 192/24. I think this could work with SACD, but with Bluray I need the TV to be connected through HDMI to get the picture, and then I fear the TV would interfere in the handshake and still limit the sample rate to 48 kHz.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

[Robin Hood]

Would you say that if you want to take SACD and Blu-ray hi rez directly to your DAC that the Oppo BDP-95 is a waste and the Oppo BDP-93 would provide identical sonics for half the price?

[Phil A]

Would you say that if you want to take SACD and Blu-ray hi rez directly to your DAC that the Oppo BDP-95 is a waste and the Oppo BDP-93 would provide identical sonics for half the price?

Can't exactly answer that as I have not heard the BDP-95 analog outs to say if it is better that way but I do have a modded BDP-83 (I also have a 93 in the bedroom system) and can tell you on some things I do like the de-embedder into the DAC vs. the SACD going into analog outs on the preamp.  There are positives and negatives.  Many times the high frequencies are a bit better from the SACD via an analog connection but the overall presentation may also be better going through the DAC).  I have not compared the 93 to the 83.  My modded BDP-83 does have a clock upgrade and also an upgraded power supply.  The BDP-95 does have better power supplies as well (probably a better transport too?).  I'd have to guess that it might be a hair better but not twice as good.  I like it well enough going through the DAC that I have another unit in the secondary basement system connected to a new Emotiva DAC.  I'd have to hear a player before I'd take the plunge.  I'm using an old Oppo DV980H in the secondary basement system with it.  I talked a friend out of buying a $3k SACD player.  He's using an Oppo BDP-83SE (which I think he said he'll sell and go with the BDP-93) for now with the de-embedder

[ted_b]

Would you say that if you want to take SACD and Blu-ray hi rez directly to your DAC that the Oppo BDP-95 is a waste and the Oppo BDP-93 would provide identical sonics for half the price?

My take would be yes, a waste of money.....but only if I am answering your question directly, i.e you are taking it directly to your DAC.  Phil brings up analog outs, which was not in your questions...but yes, then it becomes a question of whether your DAC and its analog stage and power supply is better than the DAC, analog stage and power supply signal path of the 95.  Mine, no brainer...I have a wonderful Weiss DAC2 and am demoing one or two of several other hi-end DACs that eat these players for lunch....but that's logical...I paid several hundred lunches more for them. 

[Phil A]

I'm basically in agreement with Ted.  I'd put my money in a DAC vs. a more expensive player that may give you marginally better results.  I even bought an Emotiva DAC for the secondary basement system I'll probably not use all that much for audio (mainly used for daytime sporting events on weekends and the DAC will force me to do something with the PS3 sitting there like put some music on the hard drive).  The DAC can be used for multiple sources and has no moving parts like a transport.  I even spent multiple times on a better power supply for the HDMI audio de-embedder than what I spent on the HDMI audio-de-embedder itself.  Ted just explained it better and also while Ted paid several hundred lunches more, I probably ate several hundred lunches more pondering what to do.

[Robin Hood]

So a SACD capable PS3 with the Monoprice box will allow 24/176.4 digital output and an Oppo BDP-93 with the same Monoprice box will allow 24/88.2 digital output.  I know not all PS3 units are capable of SACD playback but I believe all Oppos can playback SACDs.  Does this mean that even the cheapest Oppo 970HD would work with the Monoprice box?

[Phil A]

So a SACD capable PS3 with the Monoprice box will allow 24/176.4 digital output and an Oppo BDP-93 with the same Monoprice box will allow 24/88.2 digital output.  I know not all PS3 units are capable of SACD playback but I believe all Oppos can playback SACDs.  Does this mean that even the cheapest Oppo 970HD would work with the Monoprice box?

As noted in recent pages, I have not been able to get 24/176.4 with a Sony Blu-Ray player.  The DAC showed it receiving the signal but I got no sound.  I also tried with a DAC in the secondary basement system.  As long as the 970 converts DSD to PCM you should be fine.  I am using an old Oppo DV980H in the basement right now with an HDMI audio de-embedder.  The DAC (Emotiva) does not show sampling rate but I can tell it is higher quality than CD so I'd assume I'm getting 88.2

[jaywills]

Phil, I've been trying to figure out the problem you're having with your Sony and 24/176.  The only thing I can think of is do you have the hdmi video out of the monoprice connected to any hdmi/digital video screen?  As I understand it, some setups require the video part of the "handshake" to be made before the audio is audible/playable.  Mine is connected to an old Samsung flat panel computer monitor with a DVI-hdmi adapter.  Before I had the video connected as well, I got no sound out of the monoprice from the Sony, although my TacT DAC showed the 24/176 lock.  Please forgive me if i'm telling you stuff you already know/have tried.  Cordially,

[Phil A]

Phil, I've been trying to figure out the problem you're having with your Sony and 24/176.  The only thing I can think of is do you have the hdmi video out of the monoprice connected to any hdmi/digital video screen?  As I understand it, some setups require the video part of the "handshake" to be made before the audio is audible/playable.  Mine is connected to an old Samsung flat panel computer monitor with a DVI-hdmi adapter.  Before I had the video connected as well, I got no sound out of the monoprice from the Sony, although my TacT DAC showed the 24/176 lock.  Please forgive me if i'm telling you stuff you already know/have tried.  Cordially,

Jay - I did not need anything connected on the output to get the signal from the Oppo BDP-83 so I assumed I did not need anything.  I really don't recall if I tried it with something connected with the Sony.  I know I have it both ways with the Oppo and I thought it sounded better with nothing connected.  When I want to watch a movie, I have an HDMI cable to the pre/pro.  If I had to guess, I'd say I did not try an HDMI cable out.  I have some other audio stuff to get to but do appreciate the input and if I get a chance over the next week or two I'll give it another shot.  So if I turn the pre/pro on with his HDMI that should be enough?  I'd hate to turn on the projector just to listen to an SACD.  I do have a 19 inch LCD around the bend not far from the listening chair and I guess at some point I could get a cheap HDMI cable from the pre/pro to it.  The pre/pro is about 6-7 feet from the de-embedder and then the TV is perhaps 12-14 feet on the other side of the room.  I use the TV for DVD-A menus or set-up from either the Oppo or the Marantz DV9600 (I use as a CD transport) and I have a cheap composite video switch and also have a camera on the front door hooked to it so if it is not Publisher's Clearing House I know it is not worth answering the door

[jaywills]

Phil, I think the HDMI pre/pro turned on itself is all that is needed since it "handshakes" as well, no need to fire up your PJ, too.  I've noticed that the Sony doesn't do the initial "handshake" as well as the Oppo through the Monoprice.  As a result, I always choose the Oppo first with the Monoprice and have it establish the "handshake" and then switch the Monoprice over to the Sony. 

IIRC, there is some chatter on the internet about the Monoprice "saving" the initial handshake info once the video link first is established, so that the video part of the connection is not necessary after that first link up when you get sound.  I've not tried it since my setup (Sony + Oppo>Monoprice>DAC & monitor) works satisfactorily for me.  Good luck.  Cordially,

[CorsePlus]

This topic has been very interesting.
Am I correct is saying that the digital output from the de-embedder (eg Atlona HD570) is stereo, even if SACD is 5.1 surround sound?
Where has this mix come from or are you just getting the front channels? The HD570 appears to be able to simultaneously output up to 8 analog signals.
I have  a Sony BDP-S370 which allows the user to select PCM over HDMI, but how do you control the sample rate? I thought that this depended on the upstream HDMI device, eg  a TV which will handshake with the BD player or some other source of EDID.
Regards.

[Phil A]

Phil, I think the HDMI pre/pro turned on itself is all that is needed since it "handshakes" as well, no need to fire up your PJ, too.  I've noticed that the Sony doesn't do the initial "handshake" as well as the Oppo through the Monoprice.  As a result, I always choose the Oppo first with the Monoprice and have it establish the "handshake" and then switch the Monoprice over to the Sony. 

IIRC, there is some chatter on the internet about the Monoprice "saving" the initial handshake info once the video link first is established, so that the video part of the connection is not necessary after that first link up when you get sound.  I've not tried it since my setup (Sony + Oppo>Monoprice>DAC & monitor) works satisfactorily for me.  Good luck.  Cordially,

Jay - thanks for the info.  I'm behind on audio stuff but will give it a shot probably next week after I get done with some cables I'm looking at.

[ted_b]

This topic has been very interesting.
Am I correct is saying that the digital output from the de-embedder (eg Atlona HD570) is stereo, even if SACD is 5.1 surround sound?
Where has this mix come from or are you just getting the front channels? The HD570 appears to be able to simultaneously output up to 8 analog signals.
I have  a Sony BDP-S370 which allows the user to select PCM over HDMI, but how do you control the sample rate? I thought that this depended on the upstream HDMI device, eg  a TV which will handshake with the BD player or some other source of EDID.
Regards.

Hi and welcome to AC!   

The de-embedders output 2 channel coax and/or toslink, but only when you choose the 2 channel layer on the player side.  The 5.1 layer (layer is wrong term but you get the idea) can be chosen and sent out the multichannel analog outs, yes.  The sample rate of SACD is 24/88 for many players (oppos, etc) and 24/176 for the Sony's and a few others.  This is determined by the DSD-to-PCM decoder chip in the player, period. 

[Hear Clifford Brown]

I've had the Monprice in my system for a week and it works great.  All my SACDs have been ripped to my Mac (the "CD layer") and streamed to the Modwright Transporter, so I have not heard the "SACD layer" in about a year.  Now I'm spinning the SACDs on an Oppo connected to the Monoprice, and from there via coax to the Transporter used as a DAC.  Definitely more clarity and "air" in comparison to the streamed CD layer, I'm lovin' it.

[jamesg11]

"The sample rate of SACD is 24/88 for many players (oppos, etc) and 24/176 for the Sony's and a few others.  This is determined by the DSD-to-PCM decoder chip in the player, period."

Ted_b: do we have any sense of the sound quality of this dsd-pcm conversion, say in the oppo, cambridge media chip? ie. is there much of a sq fall away cf. to the dsd?

[Robin Hood]

So a SACD capable PS3 with the Monoprice box will allow 24/176.4 digital output and an Oppo BDP-93 with the same Monoprice box will allow 24/88.2 digital output.  I know not all PS3 units are capable of SACD playback but I believe all Oppos can playback SACDs.  Does this mean that even the cheapest Oppo 970HD would work with the Monoprice box?

Eureka! - let me answer my own question.  I figured the most I had to lose was $50 for the Monoprice box, so what the hell. 

Following the procedure for taking SACD directly to my DAC,  I hooked up my Oppo 970 to the Monoprice and Monoprice to LCD monitor using some HDMI cables.  At first, nothing but snow on the screen, then later I saw some glimpses of the Oppo label on the screen and saw the 24/88.2 LED on my DAC. 

It was still too intermittent, so I took the Monoprice box upstairs to see if it worked with a Windows computer and TV via HDMI.  Voila it worked, so I substituted the Oppo 970 for the Windows computer and voila again it worked, that is video and audio to my TV. 

So taking the Oppo 970 and Monoprice back downstairs and hooking them up to the LCD monitor and DAC as before and voila, a rocksteady HDMI handshake and 24/88.2 output to my DAC using the 5.1 switch on the Monoprice remote.  When the Monoprice remote is switched to stereo I just get 16/44.1.

Hopefully in a few weeks when I can borrow a Sony PS3 I will evaluate if I can get 24/176.4 output to my DAC.  I also ordered some Monoprice HDMI cables just in case the cause for my shaky start was using perhaps inferior HDMI cables.  I only wish the music and audio industry would make it easier for us to get what we want, but in the meantime at least I have an excellent solution.