[Krutsch]

I've gone back and forth between Roon and MPD in very quick intervals (switch over in 15-20 seconds) as well as taking things slow and listening for an hour and above and then A/Bing. There are definitely differences between the two in sound. I'm much more clear on the differences between the two and how they play out on both headphones and speakers. Also, the tendency to exaggerate things.

Do tell... I am very curious where you stand.

[Anonamemouse]

Do tell... I am very curious where you stand.

+1!

[Grit]

That said, when I re-listened to the same album via MPD last night it really did sound better. The Roon version seems flat, with a compressed image (in an HD-700 headphone sort-of way) and the MPD version invokes more of an emotional response from me (sorry, I don't how to describe this). It reminded me of the same feeling I had listening to familiar music from the BDP-1 for the first time.

I'll keep at it...

That was exactly my impression. I've got Roon running on a dedicated computer, a SSD for the boot drive, and everything is wired network (CAT6). So, it's not the network.

It's quite a shame. The Roon interface is quite nice, but I don't see paying $500 for something to degrade the quality.

Which reminds me, thank you Bryston for arranging a 60 day trial. Much more practical than Roon's 14 day trial.

[Marius]

That was exactly my impression. I've got Roon running on a dedicated computer, a SSD for the boot drive, and everything is wired network (CAT6). So, it's not the network.

It's quite a shame. The Roon interface is quite nice, but I don't see paying $500 for something to degrade the quality.

Which reminds me, thank you Bryston for arranging a 60 day trial. Much more practical than Roon's 14 day trial.

HI,
with you on that.
Unfortunately i must also add that though the frontend seems very attractive, the backend still has many peculiarities (being nice here). Roon is admittedly still very much in development, the Roon team is very responsive, but there are a lot of unanswered for issues. Check the Roon-community for solutions, afterthoughts and feature requests...

Because Roon didnt yet finish indexing and analyzing my library, i havent even been able to really test Roon in real life. so far, with only a couple of test-tracks loaded before I pointed Roon to my library, I've experienced a very clear, too much 2d sound for my taste, compared to the full and 3d sound of MPD. Issues with Gapless transitions and dropouts, made me stop listening and trying to solve those technical issues first, as advised by members here and on Roon.

Still in the middel of that, crossing fingers they solve those within the 2 months....

My personal thoughts on pushing Tidal ('s library) through Roon are rather well summarized in the thread on ROON community: https://community.roonlabs.com/t/qobuz-integration/6767/11

Cheers,
Marius




 

[zoom25]

I'll try to keep it short. Played with Roon and MPD on three different setups:

Setup and gear:

1) Headphones (BDP-1 -> Roon/MPD -> Dangerous Music Source (w/LPS) -> Senn HD 800)

2) Nearfield monitors (BDP-1 -> Roon/MPD -> Dangerous Music Source -> Amphion Amp100 -> Amphion One15 (w/Amphion cabling))
- Room size: 11 feet x 14 feet x 8 feet with monitors in a ~1.0m triangle

3) Midfield monitors (Macbook Pro USB out via Roon ->  Emotiva DC-1 -> Mackie HR 824 Mk1)
- For this I couldn't take my BDP-1 as there was no ethernet options there, but proved valuable nonetheless as Roon's signature held up even without the BDP-1
- Room size: 15 feet x 60 feet x 8 feet with monitors in a 10 feet triangle

Notes:
- I had absolutely zero problems with Roon playback or dropout. So I'm very sure I got the best out of Roon.
- Sound signature of the equipment: All the DACs are on the neutral side. HD 800 and the Amphion rigs are being used in top mixing and mastering suites and should be considered neutral. Amphions as vibey ATCs. Pretty much the same resolution, but even improved imaging.
- The Mackies are more pleasing to listen to. More forgiving with bass going down to 30 Hz in my bigger room.

Objective assessment:

MPD in comparison to Roon:
- More 3D sounding
- Smoother sounding, especially noticeable in vocals
- Perhaps a touch on the warmer side, or you can say Roon is colder depending on your taste (I vote for MPD as warm and Roon as neutral)
- I didn't pay that much attention to bass (which is a good indicator in itself!), but both seemed spot on. No problem with either.

Roon in comparison to MPD:
- Tendency to be more 2D sounding, although on good recordings, Roon has just as much depth as MPD (Diana Panton - If the Moon Turns Green album was a good litmus test for me).
- Noticeably better imaging than MPD. On headphones, I might prefer MPD at times, but on speakers Roon always imaged better. Even on tracks where I know there are 5 degree pans, it was very easy to pick up on Roon. Studying imaging on Roon was a passive job, no energy required at all. With MPD, it seemed a bit sloppy.
- On the midfield setup, Roon had the strongest centerstage performance. The phantom image was dead on there.

Somewhat subjective and objective:
+++ Roon possesses more grittyness and rawness in the vocals and better substance of the tracks: I mean this in a very good way. I always had a feeling in the back of my mind that MPD was over smoothening things over, and it was made conscious after Roon.
- When I went to MPD after few days of being exclusive to Roon, it was a nice change at first to have a 3Dish soundstage, but felt suffocating after awhile because the imaging wasn't at tight. The Amphions really helped with that, even more so than the HD 800.
- The lack of imaging coupled with over smoothening of vocals just made me uneasy.
- This is the same reason I sold my LCD-3 Classic and actually preferred both LCD-2.2 Classic and HD 800 over it. The LCD-3 were smoothening the vocals despite being 3D and having high resolution. The lack of texture, grit, and rawness in vocals just made me feel uneasy. Even rappers sounded like jazz singers!
- I would associate MPD with LCD-3 in this case.
- If the vocals are smooth, then they should come out as smooth. If there's coarseness present, then I want to hear that as well.
- Just in case somebody asks if this correlates with Distortion, or my preference for supposed distortion, NO it's not. It's two different things and I am very aware on my nearfield and headphone systems.

What I'd suggest to others in what to look for: pick somebody with the smoothest voice like Diana Panton and grab another track (rap or R&B with a rugged voice). Pay special attention to how the texture is resolved on both songs on MPD vs. Roon. I'd be surprised if it wasn't noticeable after awhile. Sure, you might like one more than the other, but at the least you should be able to notice that it DOES EXIST.

My recommendation:

For headphones: MPD might get the nod because they benefit and need more from the 3D nature of MPD

For speakers: Once you get used to the somewhat flatter presentation of Roon, you will reap the benefits of the vocals on Roon. I also noted my tendency to lean in more when listening to Roon and sitting back when listening to MPD. MPD was very much in my face, whereas Roon was a bit back, but once you put some effort, the vocals were there for easy cherry picking in the soundstage.

I think I am missing one or two other things I wanted to comment about, but I'm drawing a blank currently.

[Krutsch]

I'll try to keep it short. Played with Roon and MPD on three different setups:

...

Roon in comparison to MPD:
- Tendency to be more 2D sounding, although on good recordings, Roon has just as much depth as MPD (Diana Panton - If the Moon Turns Green album was a good litmus test for me).

...

Great review and great album choice (one of my test albums, as well). I don't currently have any speakers (long story...), so all of my listening is with headphones. On the 'phones side of things, I agree with your assessments.

[CanadianMaestro]

@zoom25,

Thanks for your meticulous review of Roon vs. MPD.

I shall stick with MPD, it does extremely well with symphonies, and indeed with all of my music library. (I also agree with you on the more "2D" presentation with Roon -- not ideal for my kinda musik. I like "in my face"!).

cheers

[CanadianMaestro]

@zoom25,

Thanks for your meticulous review of Roon vs. MPD.

I shall stick with MPD, it does extremely well on full speakers with symphonies, and indeed with all of my music library. No lack of 3D imaging in my system. (I also agree with you on the more "2D" presentation with Roon on some headphones -- not ideal for my kinda musik. I like "in my face"!).

cheers

[zoom25]

Thanks guys.

I finally remembered the two things I wanted to say:

1) In addition to depth, the height of the soundstage is also reduced in Roon

2) I forgot to say the most important thing: This was a comparison actively looking for differences between MPD and Roon. My purpose was to identify and describe the differences in a somewhat isolated manner. This does not necessarily have a bearing on their actual cohesive performance or as standalone units.

I think most people will end up preferring MPD if they only could keep one from a SQ standpoint, and I think I would fall in that category as well. MPD does so many things better than Roon as a whole.

I both fully understand AND agree with CanadianMaestro's previous comment. MPD just fills up the room in a beautiful way.

There is no imaging problem with MPD in 3D. Roon is only comparatively better, but at the cost of being 2D...so the 2Dness and projected imaging are definitely in tandem and a function of each other. Another byproduct of this is that Roon might seem to have a touch more attack, whereas MPD sounds a bit slower, but also fuller.

It's definitely a mixed bag and a trade-off, especially for Roon. MPD is the more complete package...I hope I didn't confuse anyone with this and the previous post

[zoom25]

Another thing I was able to test was how Roon's performance compared feeding the same DAC via USB or AES (BDP-1). I enabled/disabled everything for max performance on USB. The two streams were perfectly in sync and at same levels. I switched between AES and USB at click of button. It is very quick on my Dangerous Source and results in no dropouts or clicks. It's extremely fluid and perfect for A/Bing.

The Bryston definitely came out on top. More air up top and better resolution in the vocals. The timing and energy on USB feels lagging to some extent.

Another way in which the Bryston reigns supreme.

[hipp]

Great review and shows that the MPD system is as good as Roon or at least in the same class. So now all many of us BDP users want is a Bryston sourced app for BDP-2 on IOS and Android platforms with an easy to use graphic rich experience. I can dream

[Anonamemouse]

Zoom25: 
Thank you for this very clear review!

[Dave Jameson]

Hi all,

Strangely enough my experience with Roon via the BDP2 is nearly the exact opposite of many of zoom25's findings, which I think points to one's system sound rather than a superiority of MPD vs Roon. Your mileage will vary.

I had the opportunity to test the fabulous(ly cheap) Sonore microRendu against my BDP2 and that got me comparing Bryston's MPD implementation against Roon again.

First off (tested with USB as that's the only hook up for the Sonore):
Music stored on QNAP NAS. Roon running on 2011 Mac Mini w/8gb RAM and 500gb HDD
microRendu and BDP2 hooke up to Netgear Gigabit switch.
Audioquest Pearl Cat7 cable used in equal lengths to both BDP2 and microRendu.
I kept my test to one track "The Cobweb" by Giovanni Guidi Trio (none of you are required to like my taste in music )
the microRendu Roon App seemed to have similar sound staging to my Bryston running Roon. The piano and and light percussion did not have the same presence as the BDP2. The soundstage seemed ever so slightly "masked" via the microRendu. Other differences were quite small. Did not compare the microRendu's MPD implementation as it is actually not the same method used by the BDP2.

Second (BDP2 MPD vs Roon via USB):
MPD's soundstage seemed vague in comparison. There was more width to MPD but the sound appeared to bounce back and forth between the speakers. Roon was comparatively "locked" in and instruments inhabited a solid unwavering space. Roon's soundstage height was noticeably taller, though not so tall as to think I was looking up at the performance. Roon's more solid presentation made instruments appear more vivid, adding to dynamics and realism.

Please note that this is not damning of the BDP2's MPD...just that, in my system, Roon's software seems to be more sophisticated. Also, MPD is an open source program chosen for its robustness and noninvasive (audio wise) approach to file handling. So, again, nothing Bryston has done to diminish its performance. For me, Roon allows me to hear the superiority of the BDP2's hardware, design and build quality.

Thanks for reading,
DJ

[zoom25]

Hi all,

Strangely enough my experience with Roon via the BDP2 is nearly the exact opposite of many of zoom25's findings, which I think points to one's system sound rather than a superiority of MPD vs Roon.

MPD's soundstage seemed vague in comparison. There was more width to MPD but the sound appeared to bounce back and forth between the speakers. Roon was comparatively "locked" in and instruments inhabited a solid unwavering space. Roon's soundstage height was noticeably taller, though not so tall as to think I was looking up at the performance. Roon's more solid presentation made instruments appear more vivid, adding to dynamics and realism.

I actually fully agree with you on all of that, except Roon being taller...I will keep experimenting and who knows, even that may change.

But everything else you said sounds exactly like what I found. On both of my speakers rig, 100% true about the solid unwavering space. Agreed on more dynamics as well (when switching from MPD). Although once you get used to either, both become livable.

[Grit]

I wonder if the hardware on the Roon Core can be responsible for all of these inconsistencies? I'd have thought with a full computer and relatively good quality components, my implementation would have been less prone to noise than a pre-built system. However, I have no way to track/check that.

[zoom25]

I went back and tried to compare all of my softwares and hardware to gain a feel of the different soundstage, tonality, and vibe I get from each component/pairing. It was an overkill, but had to be done to give myself a quick reset and fresh eyes.

Software:

All connected via USB to DAC


+ Amarra 3.0.2
+ Amarra SQ+ 2.2.2240
+ Audirvana Plus 1.5.10
+ Audirvana Plus 1.5.12
+ Audirvana Plus 2.5.2
+ Roon
+ VLC

I tried to get Roon to work with Amarra SQ but it failed.

Hardware:

+ Bryston BDP-1
+ IPTV optical out (Android based)
+ Macbook Pro
+ Marantz CD5004
+ Playstation 2 optical out
+ Playstation 3 optical out
+ Samsung Smart TV's optical out
+ Toshiba DVD player (nothing special) coaxial out

Results:
- As expected Bryston reigned supreme over all devices regardless of Roon or MPD
- Each software varies in terms of resolution.
- Audirvana Plus 2.5.2 was top in software when using USB. Followed by Roon and Amarra 3.0.2
- The hardware is from the last 20+ years from many different brands, so it was interesting to see the variations in soundstage size, resolution, and smoothness.
- MOST UNIQUE: Out of all the combination, Roon via BDP was unique in the fact that it had the least depth while having very good resolution. Even my Toshiba DVD player threw a more 3D soundstage but was crap in resolution and nowhere near its imaging. It's a unique position. Something that I haven't experienced to date before at this level.
- MPD: One thing I picked up about MPD was that in comparison to other components and especially Roon, MPD had this apparent honkiness in the upper mids. This is noticeable when you first changeover from Roon. Over time this honkiness turns to add some depth and weight to the vocals. Drake's tracks are a good way to examine it because his songs in the past few years have the vocals occupying the entire top end. Look out for upper mids.
- When switching over from MPD to Roon, as many have said, the soundstage and image feels compressed and 2D sounding. Although over time, this slowly becomes a feeling of a "distant" soundstage rather than a "compressed or 2D" soundstage. This is an important distinction IMO. Kind of like sitting a few seats back from the action whereas the MPD is like sitting courtside.
- Most devices from the past 20 years I tried had a sound like MPD, except that as they got better, the resolution improved. Roon on the other hand immediately stuck out. People might not be liking Roon because its different from what they are accustomed to.

Summary:
- I still haven't picked which I ultimately prefer. Neither presentation is absolute or wrong. I have until September to go back and forth.
- MPD and Manic Moose are very straight forward and have the folder view structure which works like I expect it to.
- Roon's software from a UI perspective is the best out there IMO...I drop folders into the external hard drive and everything gets handled. It's like having a clone of myself organizing my music to my standards in the background.

One question:

When you guys compare MPD and Roon, how much time do you spend listening to each before going back and forth? Weeks, Days, hours, minutes, few second interval back and forth?

[zoom25]

Great review and shows that the MPD system is as good as Roon or at least in the same class. So now all many of us BDP users want is a Bryston sourced app for BDP-2 on IOS and Android platforms with an easy to use graphic rich experience. I can dream

I do use MPad and MPod, but artwork remains funky for me. I'm on the computer on a lot, so I end up using Manic Moose the most. If you know from the start what you want to listen to, then Manic Moose is perfect. Although, on days where you aren't quite sure, Manic Moose doesn't provide the same inspiration the way Roon does. In Roon, if you have a really big library with enough songs for all genres, all you need to do is find the first song. That's it. After that song, Roon automatically keeps the vibe going. It's genre/music matched shuffle feature is my TOP feature of Roon IMO. Not the artwork, or album and artist info. I rarely look at the Roon interface. I play a song and then Roon just matches the vibe and keeps it going successfully for hours. It's a high end radio experience without commercials.

[Grit]

I do use MPad and MPod, but artwork remains funky for me. I'm on the computer on a lot, so I end up using Manic Moose the most. If you know from the start what you want to listen to, then Manic Moose is perfect. Although, on days where you aren't quite sure, Manic Moose doesn't provide the same inspiration the way Roon does. In Roon, if you have a really big library with enough songs for all genres, all you need to do is find the first song. That's it. After that song, Roon automatically keeps the vibe going. It's genre/music matched shuffle feature is my TOP feature of Roon IMO. Not the artwork, or album and artist info. I rarely look at the Roon interface. I play a song and then Roon just matches the vibe and keeps it going successfully for hours. It's a high end radio experience without commercials.

I LOVE the idea of playing one song and having Roon select other similar songs for a customized "radio". Excellent feature. I wish I could get it to use Tidal's library to augment the selection (without ME adding Tidal albums to my Roon collection).

[Grit]

...
One question:

When you guys compare MPD and Roon, how much time do you spend listening to each before going back and forth? Weeks, Days, hours, minutes, few second interval back and forth?

So far, I've only had time to test with minutes and seconds between songs. Sometimes I've listened to a song all the way through, then switched. Other times, I've listened to a particular passage (say 30 seconds or so) and switched back and forth and back again.

I know this seems vague, but I just found that I wasn't as engaged in the music through Roon. I didn't get lost in enjoying the music. It just felt... flatter.

There's an audio optimizer software thing for use on Windows servers and maybe Windows 10. It basically strips out tons of extraneous things from the operating system in an effort to optimize the system. I'm wondering if that concept isn't the culprit. Perhaps a Linux-based server or Windows server that was audio optimized would help with the sound quality?

[Marius]

I know this seems vague, but I just found that I wasn't as engaged in the music through Roon. I didn't get lost in enjoying the music. It just felt... flatter.

There's an audio optimizer software thing for use on Windows servers and maybe Windows 10. It basically strips out tons of extraneous things from the operating system in an effort to optimize the system. I'm wondering if that concept isn't the culprit. Perhaps a Linux-based server or Windows server that was audio optimized would help with the sound quality?

Have a read : Why Do WAV And FLAC Files Sound Different? If this is anywhere near truth, what would that mean for Roon and the likes. Might it explain (y)our experience? Does this advocate a device focussed on playing the music files, rather then representing them in a visually attractive way, and have tons of other calculations, cross referencing and tagging going on in the background (Roons words).

Cheers,
Marius