AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Odyssey Audio => Topic started by: rooze on 12 Nov 2022, 02:37 pm
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Spent time in the Odyssey room on Friday. Klaus basically opened the doors a few minutes before I showed up and the system already sounded fantastic. I'm sure there will be ongoing tweaks so I'll stop back on Sunday before I head out.
Klaus has the Liquid speakers pulled well out into the room and forms an equilateral triangle with the listening seat. Then I believe he nudges the seat forward towards the speakers so it's at 90% of the distance between the two speakers. This creates a vast, deep soundstage and takes out most of the room reflections. Again, it sounded fantastic. I heard his setup at the show in 2019 and while Odyssey electronics are hard to beat, the Symphonic line gear takes things to another level.
Michael Fremer stopped by to talk with Klaus about the system, here's a link to a short video that starts out with a minute of Satchmo, followed by Klaus walking/talking us through the system.
https://www.audioresurgence.com/2022/11/capital-audiofest-2022-odyssey-audio-symphonic-line.html
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always a great set up.
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I'd love to buy his demo Liquids
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I miss going to shows and talking to Klaus.
Some of my best times in the early days of RMAF we’re hanging out with him.
Plus he makes some killer products at a great price!
George
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“Klaus has the Liquid speakers pulled well out into the room and forms an equilateral triangle with the listening seat. Then I believe he nudges the seat forward towards the speakers so it's at 90% of the distance between the two speakers. This creates a vast, deep soundstage and takes out most of the room reflections.”
It's easy enough to duplicate this configuration with literally any pair of speakers on hand and end up with a fantastic sounding reproduction because you hear mostly reflected (room) sound and minimal direct sound from the speakers. It's a trick that just happens to work out favorably even if it can be considered as a form of coloration since everything heard has that same soundstage and ambience no matter the recording quality.
That begs the question, should obviously bad recordings sound bad on a premium system? If you can, have him play a known good 60s,vinyl, mono, jazz recording. If rather than sounding very good it turns out to be absolutely stunning then given the lack of resolution, modern recording equipment and multichannel reproduction in this case something is very wrong about what it is that should be the direction of pursuit in this business.
This extreme off-axis, nearfield listening position presents problems with the slightest movements from the exact center LP since at say 5 or 6 ft from the speaker moving your head 1 ft laterally changes the level between the left and right speakers by 3db vs a reasonable 1db change at 15 ft. This is an annoyance I can't put up with unless you actually like the head-in-a-vise approach.
Also, from equilateral, it's more like 80% than 90%. I move from 9 ft to 7 ft forward to imitate that vast soundstage you describe as having something to do with the speakers. There is no increase in depth, as a matter of fact, in this position there is a reduction in that fake depth perception and a more uniform transition of instrument location across the soundstage by hearing still even less direct sound (making the speakers 'disappear') or at least further equalizing the ambient and direct sound so that you can't 'see' where the sound is coming from.
The sound is far more diffuse than seems right being a trade off between the pinpoint imaging, tiny instrument sound vs the hard to localize but still coherent life sized instrument (vast soundstage, as you say) sound you get with this setup.
My problem with this configuration is that no matter how attractive the impression it is a distraction from appreciating the correct timbre and harmonic structure of instruments if the recording allows. I think this setup is flawed for the very same reasons it seems to be good.
I could be wrong, though. This critical listening stuff is mostly way too complicated and confusing to me.
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So mad :( planned to come to DC and spend a lot of time in Klaus’s room. Even got a room at the Hilton. Then, diagnosed with COVID last week. So, staying home. Enjoy the show everyone. I am sure the room is beyond belief. Can’t wait to see pics and hear impressions. :popcorn:
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At 160lbs per speaker and $5900 per pair, these must be the lowest cost speakers at the show on a per pound basis.
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It's easy enough to duplicate this configuration with literally any pair of speakers on hand and end up with a fantastic sounding reproduction because you hear mostly reflected (room) sound and minimal direct sound from the speakers. It's a trick that just happens to work out favorably even if it can be considered as a form of coloration since everything heard has that same soundstage and ambience no matter the recording quality.
I am extremely confused by why you believe this. If you toed the speaker _out_ maybe, but they are usually straight or more commonly tied in.
You are getting *less* room and reflections, not more. The simple mental model is that if you continue forward until you sit between the speakers with them 90 degrees toed in, you are using the speakers as headphones, and the strength of the sound from reflections is a fraction that of the primary sound wave. The further back you go, the more that ratio increases in favor of the reflections. Equilateral triangle distance tends to be the extreme you want to be to maintain the headphone-like effect.
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Only room I visited for a second time before leaving the Fest, great atmosphere, spectacular sound and fun! Where can I find details on the speakers? Nothing on the website. Curious about finish options, turn around time, shipping, is pick up an option, return policy? Build and sound were great, not even including “for the money!” Thanks
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I'm going by the straight into the room position shown for the speakers in the video. If you move closer in between the speakers and keep going you get progressively less direct sound until the point where you would be behind the speakers and getting essentially no direct sound at all.
My position isn't carved in stone. Yours, however, seems so adamant that you must be aware of indisputable proof to back your claim and help me easily decide the matter.
tia
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The explanation by Floyd E. Toole Ph.D. below is probably what whydontumarryit is talking about. The example explains what happens what happens when an 8" driver becomes directional at higher frequencies.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=246512)
The Liquid drivers and cabinet design probably have a very even 30 degree off axis response like the graph below in order to get the Best Sounding Room from Michael Fremer. Room reflections would then be inconsequential and irrelevant.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=246513)
I don't know what speakers whydontumarryit are using for his experiment, they might be similar to Figure 23.
Read the entire article:
Loudspeakers and Rooms - Working Together
by Floyd E. Toole, Ph.D.
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=58304.msg516580#msg516580 (https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=58304.msg516580#msg516580)
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I'm going by the straight into the room position shown for the speakers in the video. If you move closer in between the speakers and keep going you get progressively less direct sound until the point where you would be behind the speakers and getting essentially no direct sound at all.
My position isn't carved in stone. Yours, however, seems so adamant that you must be aware of indisputable proof to back your claim and help me easily decide the matter.
tia
Yeah - I am seeing the confusion now. The Floyd diagram is about off-axis response. See all my comments about toe-in.
You can be 100% on-axis regardless of position relative to the speakers if they are turned to face the listener (toe-in).
The effect of distance from the speaker to listener relative to reflections is really simple: sound decreases exponentially with distance. So when you make the distance from you to the speaker directly half the distance as the reflected distance, the reflections are 1/4 the volume. When you make it a quarter the distance (such as being in the middle between between 8' separated speakers with ~10 or 11 ft ceilings - you have 1/16th the volume.
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Please help me understand this post. Originally the LP seat was moved forward to where it was 90% of the distance between the speakers, not at a 90° angle from the speakers. To me that means if the speakers are 10' apart you are 9' from each speaker. To make it simple we'll go with zero toe in. A very reasonable and common placement.
Then either it changes or I misunderstood the first placement. Are you gentlemen talking about sitting at a 90° angle from the speaker, in other words directly between the speakers? We used this placement with Maggies a few years ago, maybe a few decades, I think we called it the Rooze or something like that. I have a feeling I'm getting this wrong but I'm rereading and can't find my error.
Lastly, with either scenario, is the toe in tracking the LP or do the speakers remain pointed forward?
Thanks for the help.
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Please help me understand this post. Originally the LP seat was moved forward to where it was 90% of the distance between the speakers, not at a 90° angle from the speakers. To me that means if the speakers are 10' apart you are 9' from each speaker. To make it simple we'll go with zero toe in. A very reasonable and common placement.
Then either it changes or I misunderstood the first placement. Are you gentlemen talking about sitting at a 90° angle from the speaker, in other words directly between the speakers? We used this placement with Maggies a few years ago, maybe a few decades, I think we called it the Rooze or something like that. I have a feeling I'm getting this wrong but I'm rereading and can't find my error.
Lastly, with either scenario, is the toe in tracking the LP or do the speakers remain pointed forward?
Thanks for the help.
Hey,
I’m not sure where the confusion is coming from, not in your post but in some of the others. The main ‘unconventional’ thing about this setup is how far out into the room the speakers are. I didn’t measure but they looked almost at the half-way point, not quite, but close. Speakers at least 10’ apart, again, I didn’t get a tape measure out but they were probably north of 10’, not south. Then I may have misremembered what Klaus told me about the distance to the chair. I said 90% in the original post, I now think he said 80%. Klaus will surely stop by and clarify this point when he’s back in town.
So this is NOT the “Rooze” setup that you mentioned in your post. I came up with that setup over a decade ago and talked about it over on Audio Asylum, and as you say, it involved a listening chair on the same line as the speakers, or actually a little farther back, and was more specific to a dipole like a Magnepan.
So, Klaus took advantage of having a large room and pulling the speakers and the chair well away from boundaries to minimize room interaction. Even with the speakers firing straight ahead, as they were (almost, perhaps as little as 5 degrees of toe-in), with the dispersion pattern from the drivers you’re still sitting in the direct sound field. You are NOT sitting out of the direct sound field listening to room reflections as the primary sound field as one does (to some extent) with the old “Rooze” setup from way back when.
Hope that clarifies things a little.
Rooze
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Seriously.........more spec based opinions ???? Give me a break. Listen...trust your ears. And yes, Rooze is correct in that you'll have to adjust the toe-in..........
A quick "info " from Axpona a few years ago....
It works for me and many others who have tried it...if it doesn't float your boat, then don't do it...and as for pinpoint imaging AND massive layering of soundstaging: if you have the right gear and pay some attention you'll have both
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELqzdPOpww4&t=6s
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Klaus, you're a little less gray in that video than the recent videos from CAF!! :lol:
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I totally agree with Klaus on setup and is how I have done it, although not measuring to opposing ears.
He does it right:
Pulls speakers out into the room for a 10ms reflection delay. I use 1 foot per ms, aprox. So, 5' from speaker to back wall and 5' back to the speaker = 10ms. System picts below.
Has speakers spread wide apart vs. seating position = realistic soundstage width. No TV sized soundstage.
Has speakers off axis to the listener. Gives air and realism.
Has low light and nice ambient lighting. Perfect! Allows one to mentally see the performance better.
Has plants as diffusers. WAF.
I almost bought your amps several times now Klaus. Even talked to you on the phone. Great job.
Rocket Ronny
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=8540)
I would put pillows behind my head, usually, ha.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=8541)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=41391)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=41393)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=207981)
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Klaus, you're a little less gray in that video than the recent videos from CAF!! :lol:
Ehem...yeahhh ..about that.
It was a case of grey touch-up gone bad........and man, looking at the videos from the weekend: wayyy too old and heavy. have to do something about that.....
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I'd love to buy his demo Liquids
https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lisajgf7-odyssey-liquid-floorstanding-speakers-oak-pair-43793-full-range
There you go. Only $3614
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https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lisajgf7-odyssey-liquid-floorstanding-speakers-oak-pair-43793-full-range
There you go. Only $3614
The Music Room is selling these speakers direct for $3,505.39, no need to use Audiogon
https://tmraudio.com/speakers/floorstanding-speakers/odyssey-liquid-floorstanding-speakers-oak-pair/ (https://tmraudio.com/speakers/floorstanding-speakers/odyssey-liquid-floorstanding-speakers-oak-pair/)
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It is TMR's listing.
If these were a smoking deal at $5900 what do you call $3500? What's going on here?
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New vs. used.....
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I'm just wondering how with premium components and a substantial enclosure and seemingly favorable subjective opinions that a profit can be made considering that the music room is selling these for $3500 and definitely still making money.
Highlighting the swindle of the low tech sector of audio every tom, dick, and harry can squeeze their way into with the promise of superior fidelity and do it with little overhead making the venture viable even on a cottage industry scale by vying for those handful of suckers with 4 figures burning a hole in their pocket these Liquids at this price seem too good to be true. Granted, value in audio has never been better, it's just that the more interest devoted to the hi-end the more aware you are of the obvious advantage being taken of some of us less aware of industry methods.
Obviously deals can be had. What is disturbing to me is that here we have speakers reasonably priced vs performance available (comparatively a good deal although no where near my current panacea the KEF LS60W at $7K) and a phono preamp also used for demonstration that costs $20K and Fremer's question about total system cost sidelined due to complications in performing simple addition. :) (come on, that was pretty funny). besides that, I noticed that Klaus seems to be quite the charmer.
So, what was the total system cost for the CAF setup?
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these Liquids at this price seem too good to be true.
I have heard Klaus' speakers many times, his price/performance ratio is off the charts. The Music Room is an A++ reseller, I have bought from them a couple of times, everything is exactly as represented, shipping is super quick in bullet proof packaging. The price is right in line with used speakers with slight damage. If I already didn't have Salk speakers that work perfectly in my room I would have bought these days ago. Someone will get a terrific bargain.
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I have heard Klaus' speakers many times, his price/performance ratio is off the charts. The Music Room is an A++ reseller, I have bought from them a couple of times, everything is exactly as represented, shipping is super quick in bullet proof packaging. The price is right in line with used speakers with slight damage. If I already didn't have Salk speakers that work perfectly in my room I would have bought these days ago. Someone will get a terrific bargain.
Does Salk make an identical looking speaker as the Liquid costing much more? (Song3 BeAT?)
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I love my Liquids,worth every penny and Klaus threw in all up grades for free.
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I love my Liquids,worth every penny and Klaus threw in all up grades for free.
Cool. What is the size of your room? I'm concerned that the in room response may have a huge peak of 20db at 30 or 40 hz from Klaus' description of the soundstage layering being in multiple levels so I assume he means that extra depth coming from behind the front wall. I don't want those room modes excited to the extent that it's unlistenable at high volumes or an endless confrontation with room treatments is necessary.
thanks
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Post deleted for me being a smart-ass towards whydon't....
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25 by 20 approximate. I crank mine on occasion but there is no need. The detail from my system is intoxicating. Analog or digital these speakers deliver. Played Midnight Oil on vinyl for a friend yesterday,a talkative chap, but he sat in the perch silent taking it all in stunned. I too have a Hana Umami red, great cartridge.
Beside sound the kicker for me was The Liquids are 4ohm. This means that i would not have to buy another amp, another power chord, another set of interconnects. I saved 1000's because my 100 watt per channel Modified Plinius drives these Speakers to heaven and back.
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Does Salk make an identical looking speaker as the Liquid costing much more? (Song3 BeAT?)
No. I think you are comparing the price of used Liquids to a new Salk Song3 BeAT.
Klaus said the Liquid price is $5900 in the CAF video (1st post in this thread) . More reviews on the Odyssey website:
https://odysseyaudio.com/audio-shows/
If you think the Liquids at TMR are too cheap you can offer to pay them more.
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Post deleted for me being a smart-ass towards whydon't....
To be fair I think he might have been drunk-posting, which seems to be happening more and more frequently. And I say that as a former drunk-poster myself.
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Yeah but Klaus doesn't drink
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Yeah but Klaus doesn't drink
I meant that whydontyoumarryit was drunk posting, not Klaus.
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Hey,
I’m not sure where the confusion is coming from, not in your post but in some of the others. The main ‘unconventional’ thing about this setup is how far out into the room the speakers are. I didn’t measure but they looked almost at the half-way point, not quite, but close. Speakers at least 10’ apart, again, I didn’t get a tape measure out but they were probably north of 10’, not south. Then I may have misremembered what Klaus told me about the distance to the chair. I said 90% in the original post, I now think he said 80%. Klaus will surely stop by and clarify this point when he’s back in town.
So this is NOT the “Rooze” setup that you mentioned in your post. I came up with that setup over a decade ago and talked about it over on Audio Asylum, and as you say, it involved a listening chair on the same line as the speakers, or actually a little farther back, and was more specific to a dipole like a Magnepan.
So, Klaus took advantage of having a large room and pulling the speakers and the chair well away from boundaries to minimize room interaction. Even with the speakers firing straight ahead, as they were (almost, perhaps as little as 5 degrees of toe-in), with the dispersion pattern from the drivers you’re still sitting in the direct sound field. You are NOT sitting out of the direct sound field listening to room reflections as the primary sound field as one does (to some extent) with the old “Rooze” setup from way back when.
Hope that clarifies things a little.
Rooze
Thanks for the reply, somehow I missed it until this morning. It now makes sense. Klaus has always used this or a similar set up at shows to good effect.
I wondered if you were "that" rooze. Thanks for your efforts, it provided months of fun exploring placement with my Maggies.
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My room is in a bit of a disarray right now, so it's a good time to experiment... Also talked to Klaus about some unrelated things and one of the first things he said (I had sent him a picture) was to pull out my speakers.
I started playing with this last night. I pulled my speakers out and took some REW measurements to see if I was on the right track. Took a listen, and there wasn't a HUGE difference, but there was a noticeable difference for the better. My speakers had previously been just under 2' from the back wall, and I was out to 4-4.5' The biggest difference was less sibilance and harshness on top. Soundstage opened, but only slightly. And all this without losing any bass response.
Rocket_Ronny mentions 5' as the magic point for the delay to the back wall... so I changed to longer speaker wires, moved the rug and kept going! Once I got to 5' (which doesn't sound like a lot, really, but with an 18" deep speaker that takes a lot of real estate) something different happened, the bass was noticeably tighter but not as present and overall dynamics felt lacking. Took a REW measurement and couldn't believe that it looked basically the same. I thought for sure there would be a marked difference on the sub 100hz curve and there was not. Now, I have subs (which were off) so the amount of bass is a non-factor, but the overall dynamics are! So I'm going to play around with some smaller moves (see next paragraphs) to fine tune this.
I was trained by Sumiko in the MASTERS set years and years ago. This has always been my basis for how I place my speakers. I am always learning more and more, though, so I'm smashing techniques together here. One of the main tenets of the MASTERS set is to slowly move the speaker into the room until the amount of bass increases. The theory being that this is a mode and has "energized" the speaker and the rest of the frequency range will likely follow. It DOES acknowledge that some modes are better than others but there are no measuring devices used so it is all based on listening. Anyone can do it, and you can tailor the placement to the demands and limitations of the room and family (did someone say WAF?). There is way more to it, but this post is about placement from the back wall so I'm limiting info to that.
So, rather than starting against the back wall because 1) my speakers like to be at least 18" away anyway, and 2) following the advice of this thread I'm looking at being at least 3.5' and possibly 5' plus. In addition, I can stop and easily do a REW measurement at any point to make sure I'm not in an antimode sucking frequency response out. So. I'm going to hover around that 5' mark +/-, make small movements, do some listening, and take some measurements, and see how this turns out. I'll have to move some furniture and the rug to accomplish this so it'll be a process. I'll update here!
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Post deleted for me being a smart-ass towards whydon't....
No problem Klaus, you're obviously passionate about the product. Now, about those FR measurements. Do you have any?
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Nope......
I have used formulas, test and measuring equipment etc in the past and what I found that works best for me is that I'm using only the finest one available to me.....my own 2 ears. I'm doing this for so long now and yes, I've gotten to be excellent at this and trust myself in setups in that I know when it's "there" ... that also meant that Thursday night / Friday morning I had to lift those 160 lbs $^%&$^%$#^%^&E$^ probably 15 + times on/ and off the platforms, but it worked really, really well.........
If , however, you want a measuring / mathematical formula etc. out of the dozens of different suggestions out there, then I find it most important to eliminate the first and 2nd wave reflections as much as possible...the extreme nearfield setup of mine does that, but in general do this:
measure the room long ways...then position the front of the tweeter 1/3rd, 1/5th, 1/7th, or 1/9th of the length of the room to the rear wall......
works most times.
And yes, most of the times I don't give a shit about math, measurements, "scientifically proven" methods etc.......
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I think I've found my spot!
I played around the other night in the 3.5 - 4.5' away from the wall. I figured if I could find a spot, that would use a little less real estate in the room. Coming forward pushes the loveseat on the side of the room back further and further. I thought I had a spot, everything sounded good; good dynamics and smooth but nice bass response. Until I listened to "Ride Across the River" by Dire Straits. I've listened to this album for years and years. The bass guitar and kick drum have some very distinct sounds... where I had the speakers they were indistinct and somewhat lifeless. Back to the drawing board.
So, last night I relented and moved them up to 5' from the back wall. Had to rearrange the room to make it work, and just went ahead and did that so all furniture was where it was going to be. I did some calculations and found that this happens to put my tweeters at 1/5 the length of the room. Here's the trick though; as mentioned before, you can't just place them by measuring and expect them to magically perform. I had to bump them out a little bit... it was about 1.5 more inches and I found the spot where they interacted with the room correctly. I did all this by listening, but I was curious and took a REW measurement and found the flattest response I've ever gotten in my room! That confirmed that I was on to something. I still need to dial in the subs, but I did some listening and found a very extended and tight bass response. A lot of people would be happy with this with no subs. The amazing thing is, the most noticeable change was the smoothness in the treble. Gone was any harshness or sibilance. Details are very present but they actually sound like the silk dome tweeter they are. I must have been getting a lot of rear wall reflections and maybe corner loading. In any case, it helped a ton.
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Congrats !
20+ years and always praised for his outsantding rooms, wheter they pack a 5000 system or multi thousand bucks one!
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Post deleted for me being a smart-ass towards whydon't....
LOL...good stuff Klaus! ;-) Just curious, but how much better was the sound for the high end Symphonic gear vs your normal gear that you typically have at shows (Candela, Kismet, etc.)?
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Nope......
I have used formulas, test and measuring equipment etc in the past and what I found that works best for me is that I'm using only the finest one available to me.....my own 2 ears. I'm doing this for so long now and yes, I've gotten to be excellent at this and trust myself in setups in that I know when it's "there" ... that also meant that Thursday night / Friday morning I had to lift those 160 lbs $^%&$^%$#^%^&E$^ probably 15 + times on/ and off the platforms, but it worked really, really well.........
If , however, you want a measuring / mathematical formula etc. out of the dozens of different suggestions out there, then I find it most important to eliminate the first and 2nd wave reflections as much as possible...the extreme nearfield setup of mine does that, but in general do this:
measure the room long ways...then position the front of the tweeter 1/3rd, 1/5th, 1/7th, or 1/9th of the length of the room to the rear wall......
works most times.
And yes, most of the times I don't give a shit about math, measurements, "scientifically proven" methods etc.......
My kind of Guy. Merry Christmas Klauss
charles
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The Music Room is selling these speakers direct for $3,505.39, no need to use Audiogon
https://tmraudio.com/speakers/floorstanding-speakers/odyssey-liquid-floorstanding-speakers-oak-pair/ (https://tmraudio.com/speakers/floorstanding-speakers/odyssey-liquid-floorstanding-speakers-oak-pair/)
Thank you for posting this. I had to free these beauties from prison. The folks at The Music Room were great to work with and shipped them to me quickly. I’m still getting them set up, but love the sound. What a deal! Now I have to call Klaus to order some platforms and speaker cables.
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We need lots of updates
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I also first heard the Liquids at CAF 2022 and my wife ordered me a pair for Christmas. I recently received them and set them using Klaus’s guidelines and my ears (have not run RT60 or taken measurements yet but my room is also treated). I bought plinths from Butcher Block Audio and brass feet from Eden Sound.
I’m at about 165 hours so far and yes, the speakers do change as they burn/break in. Everyone says 400 hours but after the initial tubbiness and excessive bass calmed down I must say I’m truly in love with what I am hearing. Near full range sound, freakishly huge but natural soundstage, detail without a hint of harshness….. I’ve owned and heard a lot of speakers in my room and I rank these at the top. The plinths made a massive difference and toe in only took minutes to find the right spot.
I won’t ramble on but if anyone wants to know anything specific about the speakers, room or rig please reply and I'll check in from time to time.
Thanks.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=251436)
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I also first heard the Liquids at CAF 2022 and my wife ordered me a pair for Christmas. I recently received them and set them using Klaus’s guidelines and my ears (have not run RT60 or taken measurements yet but my room is also treated). I bought plinths from Butcher Block Audio and brass feet from Eden Sound.
I’m at about 165 hours so far and yes, the speakers do change as they burn/break in. Everyone says 400 hours but after the initial tubbiness and excessive bass calmed down I must say I’m truly in love with what I am hearing. Near full range sound, freakishly huge but natural soundstage, detail without a hint of harshness….. I’ve owned and heard a lot of speakers in my room and I rank these at the top. The plinths made a massive difference and toe in only took minutes to find the right spot.
I won’t ramble on but if anyone wants to know anything specific about the speakers, room or rig please reply and I'll check in from time to time.
Thanks.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=251436)
Not only do I bet they sound amazing, they look amazing too. Congrats!
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Nice perch man. Everyone who has bought these speakers gush about them. I love mine.
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I sent my Kismet amps in to be upgraded by the Klaus man. Now I must play the waiting game. New speakers and no amps, but I know it will be worth it. 8)
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Sorry to tell you, you’ll have to pry them out of my cold hands. Klaus even came buy my house to connect to his Kismets. Fabulous sound, best I ever heard. Talk about CUSTOMER SERVICE!!!!
lip