[lonewolfny42]

If only there was a business which rented out power cords for audiophiles to try in their system? That would save quite a bit of mistakes made in the past!

The Cable Company....

http://www.thecableco.com/tryathome.php

[Gordy]

You beat me to it    I think the "library" is for the states only though.

[denjo]

Hi Chris
Thanks for the link! The menu lists looks unending ..... 
Best Regards
Dennis

[95bcwh]

Then try VD power cord.    VD is offering 50% sales on all cable right now + there's a Power-3 cord on Audiogon selling for $130 o.b.o. I would get the 130 o.b.o so that you can save some shipping from Canada (if you have to buy from VD).

With VD power cord, you will hear more blacker background, more heart thumping bass...

VD cables have a typical 'house' sound, the more expensive one does the same thing but with increased level of refinement.

By the way, the so-called "blacker background" is often the effect of high-frequency roll-off.

Thanks again everyone,
To answer 95bcwh, what I am hoping to acheive thru either power cords or conditioning would be 1) blacker background, 2) more powerful bass and 3) a bigger soundstage. I don't feel that I need extra warmth or brightness so I suppose I would like a neutral sounding cable.  

[fsimms]

Please explain how a power cord is able to control the "rolling off" of high frequencies.

As stated in a previous post, I don't know how the fancy power cables work.  But, as an engineer,  the only way I can see that a power cable could roll off the highs is if the highs had some distortion components that added to the loudness of the highs.  If this gut feeling is correct, then any power cable that didn't reduce the highs would, by nature, be leaving distortion in the system that other cables could reduce.

But, don't take my word for it.  My gut feeling told me there was no way that fancy cables could work at all! 

[fsimms]

I worked with electronic equipment.  I looked at the levels of noise on grounds inside of equipment.  The levels of noise in grounds are often of the level of Volts!   This noise is at very high frequencies like radio.  You can't hear the noise anywhere that high.  However, as anybody who built a Chrystal radio set knows that all you need is a diode to hear modulation of that in the audio range.   Hifi systems are so complicated that it wouldn't take much to have lots of audible problems. 

Moreover, it seems to me it ought to be a problem a manufacturer could design out of his components, rather than relying on an external power cord.

Yes, the problems are probably due to the basic electronic designs, but how many designers are that good and would you pay the extra costs.   Or, at least reactions between different audio boxes.

[zybar]

The real major improvements come from upgrading the actual Power Supply.

While it is hit or miss with power cords and conditioners, I have always had positive to extremely positive results when getting the power supply of an item improved or upgraded.  This has been across the board with amps, preamps, digital gear, etc...

George

[95bcwh]

So you have never experienced power cord changing the sound?

This I would readily believe, and have experienced myself when comparing a component to its newer version with upgraded power supply.

[95bcwh]

Then why bother about the theory? Just enjoy the stock cord..

Personally no, though it wasn't something I was going to go to great lengths to experiment with. 

[95bcwh]

All of them are very "solid theory" to me.. that's how high end audio works... the theory is there's no absolute truth, there's no one speaker, one preamp, one amp, one cable that will please everybody. Audio is a compromise, there are things that a Bose system will do better than a 1 million dollar system. Your ears is like your face, it's different from others, everyone is looking for different sound. Learn to trust your own ears because they are your best judge.

Doesn't sound like a very solid theory to me.  Anyway, vive la difference, I always say.

[Toka]

I think part of the reason there is no consensus is that there are many variables that aren't accounted for/mentioned...for instance, replacing an unshielded cord with a shielded cord w/starquad wiring may make no improvement at all for one person, but for another person with a rats nest behind the rack, it might reduce interference on IC's, and thus, lower noise. Of course, this isn't due to 'fixing' the incoming power, and doesn't really 'fix' anything (simple cable management would do the same thing in this instance), but the sum result is the same.

Also, some cheaply made switching PS modules would probably benefit from some sort of filtering, as they are not engineered to account for any line noise, and probably dump their own noise back into the line. Again, a new cord doesn't really 'fix' the problem, it simply masks it.

I think it is important to keep all of this in mind before messing around with cords...some people will absolutely not need to do it at all. And its also important to understand what exactly you are buying, as many companies are merely relabeling commonly available OEM pieces and jacking up the price to the stratosphere. Before spending any real money, check out offerings from Volex, Belden, and Eupen...you will likely end up buying their product anyway, whether you know it or not. 

[Phil]

To respond to the original question, I would suggest trying balanced power.   Any non-dedicated outlet will carry lots of noise, especially if you have dimmers or ceiling fans on that line.  That has been my personal experience, at any rate.  Balanced power will reduce the noise considerably.  The effect, especially for digital, is surprisingly good.

I agree with George that a better power supply is the best primary updgrade but not always possible.

I use a balanced power unit (an equitech) for my digital source.  Overall, the effects are beneficial but I can still hear some shortcomings.   Overall, it increases the scale, body and richness of the music.  A small amount of micro-detail is lost.  For me the benefits vastly outweigh the shortcomings.  

You might want to try a unit to see for yourself what it brings with your equipment in your apartment.  http://www.b-p-t.com/ has several configurations.  The equitechs are very good (the folks at Black Sand Cable have them - http://www.blacksandcable.com/) and I've read that Furman is good too.

That would give you a good foundation on which to build.  Power cords do make a difference - I don't understand, or like that fact, either.   The only piece of equipment that didn't seem to care about power cords was the Supratek preamp which has a separate power supply which was located about two feet from the preamp itself.  

At any rate, try to have some fun with it all.  

Phil  

[satfrat]

Then why bother about the theory?

Well, I've always found forum discussions were more interesting when there were opposing points of view.

As for this "theory" -- an impartial observer reading over this thread would, I'd guess, wonder what the heck the theory was when he runs across statements like

"What’s good for one component or person isn’t necessarily good for another"

and

"Tubes seem to prefer raw AC, at least for power amps" (based on what exactly?)

and

"maybe upgraded wall recepticals" (aha! what good is a good PC if your wall receptacle sucks?)

and (my favorite)

"any change that you make is not going to improve everything from top to bottom, you're going to gain some and lose some."

...and much more besides.

Doesn't sound like a very solid theory to me.  Anyway, vive la difference, I always say.

Your "straining" opinion as forced me to speak up on a subject i'd just rather leave alone and enjoy my own experiences. First off to the main question, a balanced power conditioner will definitely clean up the noise in my system much more so than individual power cords. Whether it'll do other things that aren't to your liking, you won't know til you try but with my BPT, it's a night/day improvement with no downside to my liking.
As for subtle differences in power cords, guess that depends on the equipment and one's ear but with my system and while changing all power cords to VenHaus (all flavors), the improvement wasn't suble in the least.  Much better clarity and sharper imaging was anything but subte when changing all my power cords over from stock power cords in my system and to my ears. YMMV. 


Cheers,
Robin

[BossaNova31]

Wow lots of opinions out there on this subject 

Frankly Im really not sure what to do next given the lack of real consensus so I will probably save up and do a couple things at once. Based on people's responses here I'm thinking the next upgrades should be:

1) basic acoustic treatments (I'm looking at the reasonably priced Echobusters products)

2) a better power conditioner for my CDP and preamp - since I can't easily have dedicated AC in my apartment I was thinking maybe a PS Audio P300 with Multiwave II. Those can be had used on Audiogon for about $700 and should be a huge improvement over my PS Audio Ultimate Outlet.

3) A pair of good power cables for the amps. Based on what I have read about the Synergistic Research Teslas Im leaning toward those (used hopefully). Or I may relegate my 2 LAT AC2 cables to the monoblocks and use the higher end cables for the CDP and the pre (whatever sounds best in my system).
 

Geez, when I decided to put together my first "real" system I had no idea what I was getting myself into. The possibilities for improvement are endless. But Im having a blast so it's all good....

[satfrat]

Even tho you can save money by buying used, you can also gain knowledge for the price of shipping as most everyone is offering 2-4 week audition periods with there stuff. There's really only 1 way you're gonna know what works for you in your system and what doesn't. And even tho 2 way shipping isn't really all that cheap nowadays, it's still the best way to gain knowledge instead of just someone elses opinions. You could always order 3 different power cords and compare. With 70lb power conditioners, it gets a little pricier but it's still better than buying a $3000 conditioner for $1200 used only to find out it's not for you.



Cheers,
Robin

[BossaNova31]

Hi all,

I just scored a pretty good deal on a used P300 with multiwave II+ on Audiogon so I went that route first. I'm on a budget so my path is somewhat dictated by where the used deals come up first. Hopefully the P300 will be a big improvement for my sources over my current Ultimate Outlet.

PS - Im keeping my eye out for a used pair of Black Sands Silver Reference Mk V (5-6 ft) if anyone is thinking about selling theirs.  aa