AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Owner's Circles => VMPS Speakers => Topic started by: John Casler on 22 Jan 2013, 11:35 pm
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UPDATED 6 20 2013
OK, finally it looks like we have some of the VMPS inventory available to VMPS'ers.
I have been deluged with posts, requests, PM's, calls, and all regarding WHAT is available and when. As well many of you want to know what drivers are available for your current or older speakers.
Since Brian built unique speakers and many with unique drivers it has been and "is" a task to see if I can help any of you.
Many of the items are limited in supply and will not be replaceable. A few are available from OEM's I am in touch with.
I will do my best to offer what is available on a "first come" first served basis, and since B's passing, I have been placing E-mails and PM's in a file to offer the early inquirers their "place in line".
You are welcome to e-mail me to make sure I have your inquiry.
Some may think the prices high, and some may think them bargains, but in many cases these PARTS were not sold except in a built speaker, or with a return of the old part basis. Also, I would like to maximize the return on this inventory for Brian's Widow and Children, so do know that your purchase also contributes to that.
So here is what we have:
JUST FOUND: Review Pair of Rosewood RM-40 Speakers, with TRT CAPS and MLS Cabinet - $3500 (Pick up in Illinois) SOLD
Neopanels; priced @ $179 each. We have a limited number of Neopanel Drivers, which is the VERY UNIQUE driver Brian used and it is the HEART of the recent VMPS speakers. When these are gone, they are gone. While there were rumors of a couple companies making them, Brian checked them out (samples) and found they weren't even close.
6.5" Megawoofers w/40oz magnet: Priced $159 each. These are even more limited, and were used in the following: 626R, LRC, Ribbon Dipole, RM-30, and RM v60 (bass base)
SPIRAL RIBBON TWEETERS = $49 each plus shipping
15 of the DYNA-RIBBONS $39 plus shipping REDUCED
15" ULTRA- Passive Radiators - $115 retail ($89 if purchased with SUB cabinet below)
1 - 15" old style VMPS PRs $39 each plus shipping Vitrified Just Found
CABINETS:
1 - SINGLE RM50 prototype cabinet UNFINISHED (could be used for a CENTER CHANNEL) - $249
8 -Large Ribbon Center (Piano Black): Priced at $89 each OBO (These can also be used as Left/Right/Center Speakers) Excellent behind Acoustically Transparent Screens.
1 - Pr RM30 Cabinet B-Stock (BLACK) - $349 (JUST FOUND)
1 left - B-STOCK LARGER SubWoofer (Oak): Priced at $199 due to scratches and scuffs ($179 each if you purchase both)
0 - B-STOCK LARGER Subwoofer (BLACK) Priced at $249 (some scratches) SOLD
0 pr - RM V60 wings (Maccassar Ebony); ALL RM v60s have been SOLD (RM60 purchase gets priority for remaining neopanels)
1 pr - Dipole/Bipole Surround (BLACK) Fully Assembled = $1999
3 pr - Dipole/Bipole Surround (BLACK) Cabinets = $249 pr
All remaining inventory was transfered to a storage area and there may be more items as the contents are removed, but at this time THIS is all I am sure of.
I have not been told that there are any of the Series II CDWGs.
So, I will be contacting those of you who said you wanted some of these items. Anyone else please e-mail me bioforce.inc@gte.net and let me know what you might be looking for, and I will place you in queue. I will begin taking orders now.
(http://www.vmpseurope.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/RMV60-2.jpg)
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John,
put me down for 2 Neo Panels if you have them when you get down to my name on the list. I posted on november 12 that I was interested. Send me the payment info and I'll send the money.
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So does this mean that when the inventory is gone it's gone and VMPS will be no longer!? :cry:
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Which is the tweeter, Neo 1 or Neo 3?
http://www.fountek.net/products.asp?id=44
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For V60, it should be a larger one, like Neo2.
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For V60, it should be a larger one, like Neo2.
From the appearance of my RM40, more like Neo3 I think.
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So does this mean that when the inventory is gone it's gone and VMPS will be no longer!? :cry:
It's my understanding that VMPS has been "no longer" since Brian died.
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Which is the tweeter, Neo 1 or Neo 3?
http://www.fountek.net/products.asp?id=44
Since I have not had one here in my system, I don't know. It is LARGER/TALLER than the FST Tweeter.
Maybe Dave Housteau will drop in and tell us. He has a pair and I am sure he knows.
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This one was regular FST
http://www.aurumcantus.com/aurumcantus-tweeter/aluminum%20ribbon%20tweeter%20G2si.htm
As noted at RMV60 page tweeter is G3, so I guess it belongs to this family;
http://www.aurumcantus.com/aurumcantus-tweeter/aluminum%20ribbon%20tweeter%20G3.htm
If Dave measures the faceplate it will get us closer to the right one.
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Hi All,
I am again deluged with responses so I am matching them up to the original e-mails.
PLEASE MAKE SURE AND "E-MAIL (bioforce.inc@gte.net)" me since I DO NOT have folders to coordinate PM's.
Thanks.
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As noted at RMV60 page tweeter is G3, so I guess it belongs to this family;
http://www.aurumcantus.com/aurumcantus-tweeter/aluminum%20ribbon%20tweeter%20G3.htm
If Dave measures the faceplate it will get us closer to the right one.
Yes, it sure looks like the G3. The faceplate dimensions are 5 7/16" x 2 7/8". However, these dimensions don't match exactly with any of them. Unfortunately there is nothing written on the back of them that I can see. I believe Brian may have gotten these from Parts Express and I know who he placed orders with over there. I will contact him to check on this.
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OK. On the Parts Express site the dimensions match up with the G3Si.
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Hi John,
I emailed you at the 'bioforce' address above (for two neopanels) with my contact info.
This msg is just to make sure you get my request.
Thanks,
Jerry
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It's my understanding that VMPS has been "no longer" since Brian died.
Correct. Brian did not have a protégé or an engineering partner who could carry on his work. His widow did not want the VMPS brand that he worked so hard to build to be diluted, after acquisition, by some firm that shared nothing with Brian's engineering vision.
So the VMPS name won't be another name under the Harman International Group umbrella (AKG®, Harman Kardon®, JBL®, Mark Levinson®. Lexicon®, Infinity®, etc.). We won't be seeing a Lexus with a "VMPS Audio" speaker system to go with its Mark Levinson branded electronics. And that's a good thing.
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Hi John,
I emailed you at the 'bioforce' address above (for two neopanels) with my contact info.
This msg is just to make sure you get my request.
Thanks,
Jerry
Hi Jerry,
I am not seeing your e-mail.
Make sure you sent it to bioforce.inc@gte.net
I have received over 45 e-mails today so it seems to be working fine.
I am assuming you are using the name JERRY in the e-mail.
HI Jerry,
I found you. You were alread in the "responded to" section. Let me know if you didn't get your info.
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I have also located a handful of SPIRAL RIBBON TWEETERS = $49 each
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Hi Jerry,
I am not seeing your e-mail.
Make sure you sent it to bioforce.inc@gte.net
I have received over 45 e-mails today so it seems to be working fine.
I am assuming you are using the name JERRY in the e-mail.
HI Jerry,
I found you. You were alread in the "responded to" section. Let me know if you didn't get your info.
Yes, I did get your email. Thanks.
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John,
I paid the invoice you sent, no hurry in sending out the panels as hopefully I will never need to use them. I purchased them for insurance.
I did just want to be sure these are Neo Panels that have been rebuilt. I had read some time ago that the original design was flawed and that Brian corrected that flaw before using them.
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Yes, all panels are being modded by Brian's former shop foreman.
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John, I am posting here and emailed some time ago to acquire Neo panels, mid-woofers, tweeters for the RM-V60.
Please keep me in the loop for purchase. Thanks!
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Email sent John...
Thanks for your efforts!
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John, I am posting here and emailed some time ago to acquire Neo panels, mid-woofers, tweeters for the RM-V60.
Please keep me in the loop for purchase. Thanks!
Found your e-mail (I think, since your screen name is not in the e-mail and your real name is not in the post/but the geography and speaker model match)
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Yes, it sure looks like the G3. The faceplate dimensions are 5 7/16" x 2 7/8". However, these dimensions don't match exactly with any of them. Unfortunately there is nothing written on the back of them that I can see. I believe Brian may have gotten these from Parts Express and I know who he placed orders with over there. I will contact him to check on this.
Dave, I beleive the RM v60 Tweeter is a Fountek, not an Arum Cantus
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I will see if I can call Scott at Parts Express tomorrow. I had a good talk with him about Brian at Margaritaville during THE Show in Vegas. Brian was a customer of his and he should remember, or have records of what Brian purchased there. This looks to be the one in my speakers:
http://www.ritlab.jp/shop/product/speaker/data/aurum/g3si.html
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I spoke with Scott for a little while this morning. He is able to list most if not all the items (pots, coils, resistors, drivers, etc.) Brian bought through them recently, but I am not yet certain how far back he can go. With enough history we may be able to assemble a sort of timeline where we would have a pool of components being ordered by Brian at a time when a particular model was being produced over the years.
For example, within this last year Brian ordered these:
Aurum Cantus G3Si (276-400)
Beston RT002A (277-1112)
Dayton (295-468)
Dayton (295-206)
Dayton (295-204)
I will be getting back in touch with Scott to see what he can do for us.
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I spoke with Scott for a little while this morning. He is able to list most if not all the items (pots, coils, resistors, drivers, etc.) Brian bought through them recently, but I am not yet certain how far back he can go. With enough history we may be able to assemble a sort of timeline where we would have a pool of components being ordered by Brian at a time when a particular model was being produced over the years.
For example, within this last year Brian ordered these:
Aurum Cantus G3Si (276-400)
Beston RT002A (277-1112)
Dayton (295-468)
Dayton (295-206)
Dayton (295-204)
I will be getting back in touch with Scott to see what he can do for us.
For those of us ordering empty Larger cabinets with the newly sourced 15" PR that John posted earlier, the subject of what 12" and 15" drivers to use is pertinent. Those last three Dayton part numbers are subwoofer drivers (15" and 12"). The RSS390HF-4 15" Reference driver looks especially interesting. I wonder if Brian had any discussions with Scott about potential PE Dayton drivers for use in his Larger and VSS subs and if these were the ones he and PE deemed most suitable?
I most likely won't be going with the TC Sounds OMG drivers due to cost and cabinet rework. If anyone has info & suggestions as to suitable drivers for these empty Larger cabinets, I'd be most appreciative for your input.
gab
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I "think" the Eminence LAB15 will work in the VSS box.
Somebody should also run the numbers and see if the Eminence LAB12 would work in the Larger.
Those are very interesting subs and I know Brian used them as upgrades before.
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Great work! This is just the kind of information that we need. I'm going to start a new sticky on replacement drivers, adding to to it as we discover other driver information.
I spoke with Scott for a little while this morning. He is able to list most if not all the items (pots, coils, resistors, drivers, etc.) Brian bought through them recently, but I am not yet certain how far back he can go. With enough history we may be able to assemble a sort of timeline where we would have a pool of components being ordered by Brian at a time when a particular model was being produced over the years.
For example, within this last year Brian ordered these:
Aurum Cantus G3Si (276-400)
Beston RT002A (277-1112)
Dayton (295-468)
Dayton (295-206)
Dayton (295-204)
I will be getting back in touch with Scott to see what he can do for us.
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We have to be careful here. This is going to be a big puzzle until a lot of data is collected. Just knowing items Brian had purchased from various venders at a particular time doesn't mean that they were used where we may think. Brian used a lot of custom items built to his standards. If these off the shelf parts were used they may have been modified first and then only worked as a one off in a particular situation. More often then not this will not be a simple plug 'n' play deal. Also, many of Brian's substitutions required other changes to be made elsewhere. A lot of investigation will need to be done and it will take a lot time to sort this all out. I believe the simple fact that since this will not be an easy thing to do is a testament that the speakers we are fortunate enough to own are quite special indeed.
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As per Dave's post above;
Dave and I have been having a discussion about this off-line, and it is imperative that we all recognize that because Brian was a one man show, he was able to change parts and drivers at any time and make them work in the model he was working on.
He didn't often use "off the shelf" drivers, instead opting for versions of some drivers from OEMs or building/modding them himself.
Makes for a difficult task to find replacements, but we can try. If I was more of a DIY'er or speaker builder I might be more helpful, But that is not my forte. However, B and I did talk and often about drivers, XO's and various ways to improve the line.
The most recent exception to the no "off the shelf" pattern was the RM-50. This may have been because Brian was having health issues and it was a simpler path. Obviously he used 5 Neopanels, but the tweeter bank may have been the BESTON RT002A Dave posted. As well, he may have used the DAYTON woofers on a couple of the RM50's, and finished off with the 15" BB Passive Radiators.
I cannot validate that the Aurum Cantus could be substituted for the FST, but chances are good that it is the closest thing to what B used. In the past, many have speculated that was the driver, but while the dimensions look to match, a thread several years ago saw Brian clearly stating that he sourced them from an OEM. Personally I think we can use the Aurum with reasonable confidence of similar performance.
If I see some comment on replacement drivers, I will offer what history I am aware of, but do be careful.
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The 15" Ultra Megawoofers are Dayton Audio RSS390HF-4 15" Reference HF Subwoofer 4 Ohm, http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=295-468. I found this out when I was mailed a set of them direct from PE and Brian did confirm that they are the Ultra Megawoofers.
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I helped my friend Avoosl with his RM50's after they arrived. The speakers had considerable issues with the midrange planars not working after shipping. I helped him with diagnostics and replacement to get them fully back to original condition. This was with Brian's and John's help with info. Did lots of DC resistance measurements to sort out the bad drivers and wiring issues. Brian also sent replacement woofers so that we could restore them to original The Show condition. The key was measurements to spot the issues.
Might I make a suggestion. It would seem that someone with a speaker measurement system should make DC resistance, Thiel-Small parameters, impedance plots and frequency response plots of the existing drivers before they are all sold to have examples for use so people can find replacements. This would be a large task and might need multiple groups to accomplish it. If examples of drivers are available from customers replacement parts, might be worth the effort to get them measured as well.
If Brian had the information, it might make the task simpler. That would be a records search for someone.
This is one way I can see to have real information to help with replacements when time arrises. This along with the mfg research should help for awhile for replacements.
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The 15" Ultra Megawoofers are Dayton Audio RSS390HF-4 15" Reference HF Subwoofer 4 Ohm, http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=295-468. I found this out when I was mailed a set of them direct from PE and Brian did confirm that they are the Ultra Megawoofers.
Bsoko2 - thank you for that information! Any idea what the 12" Ultramegawoofer might be?
gab
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12" is the same as the 15" from PE. I have 2 VMPS Large Ultra Megawoofer subs with a 15" TC Sounds PR.
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12" is the same as the 15" from PE. I have 2 VMPS Large Ultra Megawoofer subs with a 15" TC Sounds PR.
Thanks Bsoko - PE in their latest catalog show a 4 ohm and an 8 ohm version of the 12" driver (-464 is the 4 ohm version).
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=295-464
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=295-445
Do you know which of these you have in your Largers?
One answer may be the actual amplifier (or amplifiers) you are currently using to power each Larger.
If the 4 ohm version was used in parallel with the 15" driver, that's quite a low load for the amp! The 8 ohm 12" driver in parallel with the 15" driver, not so bad, but still a low impedance for the amp. Looking at the impedance curves on the spec sheets, it looks as though the 8 ohm version bottoms at ~7.25 ohms at 100 Hz (disregarding the sub 5 Hz region where it drops to 6.5 ohms). The 15" shows a 3.8 ohm impedance in the 100 Hz range. So if one were to use the 8 ohm version of the 12" driver and the 15" driver in parallel, the minimum impedance in the 100 Hz area would be roughly 2.49 ohms. I wonder if the Parts Express HPSA1000-R amp can handle this?
Also - did the drivers fit into the Larger cabinet without any surgery being required (routers, etc)?
I think I am leaning towards each driver being driven separately by its own amplifier, so I will probably choose the 4 ohm version. But I'm not quite ready to stop researching this and pull the plug so I'll wait to see if any other info becomes available in the near term.
I do appreciate your input Bsoko. You have narrowed down the Ultra Megawoofer driver search to really just a couple of questions. Thanks!
gab
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Those may have too large a diameter to fit. The majority of LARGERS have a diameter of 12.25" for the 12" driver. The PE are 12.36".
Might be tight.
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Those may have too large a diameter to fit. The majority of LARGERS have a diameter of 12.25" for the 12" driver. The PE are 12.36".
Might be tight.
Yes I think I have answered my questions with this post from Long Ear regarding an email he got from Brian:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=96810.msg971709#msg971709
So to sum it up, the Ultra Megawoofers appear to be:
Dayton Audio RSS390HF-4 15" Reference HF Subwoofer 4 Ohm
Brand: Dayton Audio | Model: RSS390HF-4
Dayton Audio RSS315HF-4 12" Reference HF Subwoofer 4 Ohm
Brand: Dayton Audio | Model: RSS315HF-4
If using the Dayton Audio HPSA1000-R 1000W Rackmount Subwoofer Amp, wire the two drivers in serial or use another amplifier that is capable of driving a 2 ohm load (like the Crown versions mentioned in the thread).
Surgery is required due to the larger diameter of the aforementioned drivers as John mentions.
gab
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Actually, you have the flexibility to run each driver to a separate set of binding posts.
Then you can power them in stereo. You should also be able to connect them "in series" from there and run a single amp.
Parallel would give you too low an impedance for most amps.
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We have just come across 3 NOS 15" PR's.
These are NOT BB PR's but of the older variety. Two are Vitrified one is not.
Should fit all 15" PR openings.
$45 each plus shipping
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John,
I have just written you at bioforce asking to buy the older PRs, the vitrified pair. Thank you for your work helping the VMPS fans.
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Sir,
I would like to purchase both vitrified subs. John, please let me know how to proceed. My zip code is 75160. Thank you.
Mike K.
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John,
I have just written you at bioforce asking to buy the older PRs, the vitrified pair. Thank you for your work helping the VMPS fans.
Hi Ed,
At this point, someone has already committed to purchasing them and you would be second on the list if something falls thru.
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Sir,
I would like to purchase both vitrified subs. John, please let me know how to proceed. My zip code is 75160. Thank you.
Mike K.
Hi Mike, You would be 3rd on that list (or if we uncover any more)
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First Modded Neopanels and 6.5" Megas are scheduled to reach me tomorrow.
I should be able to fill and ship most present orders this next week.
Thanks all for your responses.
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John, do you know if there are any of the RM30 woofer / PR mods still around? The one where the 10" is replaced with a PR.
Thanks
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John, do you know if there are any of the RM30 woofer / PR mods still around? The one where the 10" is replaced with a PR.
Thanks
At this time, there are no CDWG's that have been reported to me. I have a PR that will fit the cutout and functions especially well, but does not allow the woofer grill to be used.
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I received my Neo Mids, thanks John. These will keep my VMPS speakers alive for years to come.
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Hi Brax,
Yes, I think we can get and keep quite a few running, but the supply of Neopanels is limited.
I also will have a limited supply of "spiral tweeters" coming in a couple days for those with 626/RM1/RM2/RM40/Ambiance Tweeters that have used them.
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I am also adding a recent find of a VSS SUB in Macassar Ebony. I will add this to the original Inventory post as an update.
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Are the Neopanels likely to "wear out" as a cone driver does? Other than total failure (seems unlikely) or damage, is there any reason to anticipate having to replace the Neopanels?
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My thought is that anything mechanical can and will eventually wear out. I'd hate to have to scrap out a set of RM2s just to scavenge a neo panel to replace one in my RM30s or RM40s. You should be able to find an acceptable replacement for any of the rest of the drivers, but not the Neo Panels. With 23 Neo Panels in all, what are the chances one will go out? It's not worth the risk.
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I don't see any particular part of the Neopanel that is likely to "wear out" in any of our lifetimes, though. Not like the surround of a cone driver, for instance. Electrostatic panels from the 1950's and 1960's have still not "worn out"; they are often damaged, or just dirty, but not "worn out".
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While the panels are exceptionally robust, thousands of them had manufacturing defects that had to be fixed or they could develop a "buzz". It was more due to a bad connection than something actually wearing out. If the connection became intermittent then the panel would buzz or crack at certain frequencies. :cry:
Many were modded by Brian after this issue presented itself and a mod was developed. :thumb:
So some were not modded prior to that and they may never buzz/crack or they may do so tomorrow.
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Didn't you post that "we" know how to perform that mod if needed? Just trying to add some clarity here; if there is little chance that an already modded panel will "fail", then an owner with already modded panels gains little by stockpiling panels (at least compared to someone trying to assemble a new V60, or someone who has one of the original RM models)
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Didn't you post that "we" know how to perform that mod if needed? Just trying to add some clarity here; if there is little chance that an already modded panel will "fail", then an owner with already modded panels gains little by stockpiling panels (at least compared to someone trying to assemble a new V60, or someone who has one of the original RM models)
Actually the mod has to be "exceptionally precise" or it too can fail, but that doesn't happen often. In all my customers, I have only had three.
But on the other hand one year in Vegas, we had two modded panels in a row fail, so go figure.
Also, at this time the only person I know who is qualified to perform the mod is Angel, who worked for Brian and is helping his widow Shirley by modding all the remaining panels.
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John,
I set a check in the mail on Februay 6, 2013, and I was wondering if it had been received yet.
It shouldn't take even the USPS this long. Any updates or suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks.
(minnetonkan)
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Yes, it arrived today.
I have the megawoofers, but am waiting for the next shipment of Neopanels before shipping yours.
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Thanks John, I just received my neopanel yesterday. I'm happily surprised to read here of how few neopanels have actually failed. My RM40's have taked some punishment from me at times in the past nine years or so. All within reason and short durations of course. These neopanels still continue to impress. Maybe I didn't need to buy one for insurance....but I'm glad I did.
If a modified panel was to fail, in most cases would it still produce a buzz or just stop working? Any idea?
Also, has anyone had any reliability problems with their FST tweeters?
Thanks Harv
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If a modified panel was to fail, in most cases would it still produce a buzz or just stop working?
As John mentioned several panels started to buzz over the years at THE Show in Vegas. I was there for at least three of them. On some we just did a direct replacement, but on one we had to do a repair when the spares he brought did not appear to be modded. Brian showed me how the repairs were made and had me do it for him. On one of the terminals a circuit trace comes very close to it. If it is too close certain frequencies will allow it to come in contact with it. The fix he showed me was to reduce the size of the already very small ring connector for the wire.
Now, there may be more issues than this one, but this is the one fix he showed me and I did have to do it to one of my own with good results.
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One of my customers first reported symptoms with several Neo panels, leading to discovery of a design/engineering flaw: electrical input terminals comprise rivets with unreliable contact. Fix: cut rivet heads with Dremel tool, remove rivets and terminals, clean/prep aluminum contact trace on board, replace rivet with machine screw, solder lug, split ring lock washer, and nut. Fastener size is critical, must be large enough for proper torque, plus the holes in the glass boards are over size for the application, causing too much slop if the fastener is too small. But conversely, the traces are too close, so too large a fastener may short washers or solder lugs. I have leftover repair hardware here if John or Shirley or anyone needs them just ask.
For cosmetic reason only I preferred to position the screw head outside while Brian, for unknown reason, placed the screw thread, washer, and nut outside. I asked Brian several times why he chose that orientation because I was curious if one method was better than the other. Never heard why. I estimate he simply did it that way the first time and had no reason to change it.
I'll perform the above repairs on panels requiring it for free, charging some dollar amount and forwarding it to Shirley. It's been years since I did the repair but I can do it, it will just take a bit longer than when I was helping Brian do it regularly. Estimate 25 minutes each panel.
Members vote on the amount and I'll agree whatever it is. Again, I'll send the entire amount collected to Shirley.
IMO Brian and I fixed most of the Neo panels he sold. Just look at the panel terminal. If it's a rivet, if you don't see a screw head (my repair) or nut (Brian's repair), if I was you I'd update the panel ASAP. If you choose not to do it yourself, ask John if Angel will do it or I'll do it. The rivet is definitely flawed, FUBAR.
Soon after the Neos arrived Brian's RM40 won the CES award and we were selling RM40s as fast as we could build them. The problem showed up pretty early, so that's why I think there's few in the field needing repair, or believe me I'd never volunteer for that duty. When they ask for volunteers to step forward, I already stepped backward to the next county.
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close-up pictures would be nice :D
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close-up pictures would be nice :D
Pictures of what? Neo panel input terminals? I have no Neo panels. Just going by memory, I will personally mark six months after Brian won the CES award (I forgot the year) as the date after which all Neo panels were repaired prior to leaving the factory. My offer stands only for original VMPS buyers with proof of purchase. Other Neo panel owners can contact me personally for a charge quote for service. Neo panels have sum total two input terminals, one positive, one negative, located center of one of two short dimensions. I wrote: ...look at the panel terminal. If it's a rivet, if you don't see a screw head (my repair) or nut (Brian's repair), if I was you I'd update the panel ASAP...
It is reasonably easy to discern the physical differences between a rivet, a machine screw head, and a machine screw thread/washer/nut.
If you see a rivet, it needs attention.
If you see a machine screw head, it's already fixed.
If you see a machine screw thread/washer/nut, it's already fixed.
Readers unsure what is a rivet can post an image and request help.
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=75517)
This is the first generation Neo from 2001, made by Sonigistix. This is how it looks originally, no repair done. It was problematic in at least three points as far as I know.
- buzzing when played louder since magnets were quite close to foil and they played quite low in the range
- losing contact on rivets, not always related to how loud it played
- paint peeling off on the inside over the years, small pieces of paint causing more buzzing even when played soft
I had the "luck" to be the first with the rivet problem, before it was even known that rivet is the cause of it. At that time, beginning of 2002, Brian seemed to have none of the problematic Neos. Perhaps mine were a bit hurried up to a problem during a long and probably rough shipping. Anyway, at that time he could not reproduce the problem and therefore help me with useful advice.
I checked a lot of parts before I narrowed it down to rivet. Then it took some time to figure out that any practical soldering method won't solve anything. I finally found small enough Aluminum screws and drilled out the rivets. That worked. If I recall it correctly I placed nuts out because nuts were larger than a screw head or washer. Having nuts on the inside could cause shorts since there is really little space between leads, some 0.5 mm or so. Brian later adopted and improved the method with different washers. I think that all speakers from second half of 2002 and later had repaired Neos.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=75518)
Second generation, made by Level 9, all speakers from about late 2002 should have those.
Larger gap between magnets and foil (I think gap was doubled), so no buzzing, and I never heard of paint problems either. Also more openings, 13 columns compared to 8 at first version.
Problem with contact rivets still there.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=75519)
Same panel from the back.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=75522)
Repaired Level 9 panel.
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Yes I think I have answered my questions with this post from Long Ear regarding an email he got from Brian:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=96810.msg971709#msg971709
So to sum it up, the Ultra Megawoofers appear to be:
Dayton Audio RSS390HF-4 15" Reference HF Subwoofer 4 Ohm
Brand: Dayton Audio | Model: RSS390HF-4
Dayton Audio RSS315HF-4 12" Reference HF Subwoofer 4 Ohm
Brand: Dayton Audio | Model: RSS315HF-4
If using the Dayton Audio HPSA1000-R 1000W Rackmount Subwoofer Amp, wire the two drivers in serial or use another amplifier that is capable of driving a 2 ohm load (like the Crown versions mentioned in the thread).
Surgery is required due to the larger diameter of the aforementioned drivers as John mentions.
gab
Yes, the info provided is correct. I have 2 larger subs and I purchased the Dayton Audio drivers mentioned along with the Big Bump passive radiators. The Dayton drivers sound fantastic. They are better than the megawoofers which I had previously. The big bump passives were hideous looking and VERY sloppily made, but they seem to be working for now. I may purchase the alternative PRs that John has discovered in the near future. My drivers are both 4 ohm & wired in parallel for a 2 ohm total impedance, but my Crown K2 amp handles that load with no problem. It is putting 1250 watts into each sub and the drivers are handling it fine. I've had my VMPS subs for almost 15 years now so I can tell you with confidence that the upgrade is well worth it. You will have to enlarge the mounting hole for the drivers in the cabinet though. Some people just put speaker flange gaskets in the existing flange area as spacers so that the new drivers would mount flush to the top of the front baffle. I didn't like that idea because the driver would stick out and hit the grill cloth. I routed a new wider flange into the cabinet so that the new driver would sit recessed like it was designed to do. Required a special router bit but well worth it to have everything mounted properly.
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=75517)...If I recall it correctly I placed nuts out because nuts were larger than a screw head or washer. Having nuts on the inside could cause shorts since there is really little space between leads, some 0.5 mm or so...
Thanks for the images and panel history. Again, I repaired many panels both with Brian at the Plant and separately at home. I have no panels now. IIIRC, it's true there is minimal dielectric between the conductive traces for the terminals. But the space between the terminal centers clearly (to me) indicates plenty of space for the nuts (at least the fasteners I employed and have here for free for anyone who wants them) for those preferring the cosmetics of a screw head showing vs. threaded stud, washer, and nut. Also, no reply when I asked Brian the reason for his screw orientation.
IIRC here is the risk: whatever is on the side of the trace (screw head or nut, terminal side, the panel side facing the sub enclosure), must be held stationary while turning/torquing whatever is on the outside of the panel (screw head or nut). If whatever contacts the trace turns, the trace will likely break or deform resulting in open or shorted circuit, neither of which will do especially much to improve audio performance. Again, the minimal dielectric between traces increases risk.
We have many primeVibe customers throughout Europe including Croatia. We hope to visit one day, and will request a brief visit at that time if convenient for you.
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Perhaps a space problem for the nut on the back was present only for 1st generation Neos, or I simply had larger nut than usual.
I never needed to repair 2nd generation.
Your advice for not letting anything scrub the traces is very important, that could destroy panel easily.
If you visit here, just let me know in advance, it would be nice to meet you.
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GOOD NEWS for those of you with Classic VMPS with "DYNA-RIBBONS".
This includes Early FF-1 and FF-3 owners.
We have uncovered 15 of the DYNA-RIBBONS (see photo below) $99 plus shipping.
I will update the INVENTORY page.
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT-9KkJFVRM_2xuIaU6DFqE8rRTHCRum8RMekNrUJI4HSEvvL9eIg)
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Here is another pic of the driver itself
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=76088)
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Have 2 additional 15" Passive radiators (old style) non-vitrified for $39 each plus shipping.
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Have 2 additional 15" Passive radiators (old style) non-vitrified for $39 each plus shipping.
are they rubber surrounds or foam?
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are they rubber surrounds or foam?
I'm interested to see reply. While I worked for Brian every PR had exclusively foam surround.
In VMPS lingo, does not "vitrified" indicate PR cone coated with white wood/paper glue? We're going way back, but that's my recollection...http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/vitrified (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/vitrified)
I stopped following VMPS' product line prior to Brian replacing the active side-firing 10" (RM30) with 10PR. The RM30 enclosure volume was better limited to two active 6.5". For RM30 with 10PR, what occupied the down-firing dual 6.5PR slot?
Interesting that Brian employed the above change among several others I suggested over the decades. The last one I suggested 15 years prior was the RM50s side-firing PR. Side-firing PR smooths bass FR more than the slot filtered unwanted HF hash. I strongly felt and still feel it would be ideal to side-fire PRs on the same side for two L/R speakers. IOW, fire both PR on the L or R side (side does not matter, even if the active array was not a straight symmetrical line).
Such PR alignment provides non-symmetrical boundary path length for the two PRs, far better than a symmetrical path length. The latter damps bass modes, the former excite bass modes. Plus, the user could audition the speakers with both PRs firing either L or R (I guarantee one would sound much better than the other unless the room was totally symmetrical, which of course is only about 1% of domestic sound rooms).
Symmetrical L/R speakers below 80 Hz are anathema to ideal performance.
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are they rubber surrounds or foam?
The surrounds on these are foam. They appear in quite good condition.
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I'm interested to see reply.
While I worked for Brian every PR had exclusively foam surround.
In VMPS lingo, does not "vitrified" indicate PR cone coated with white wood/paper glue? We're going way back, but that's my recollection...http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/vitrified (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/vitrified)
Hi Jim,
Yes, vitrified is when the cone has been painted with a stiffening agent, which is usually a commercial grade of Elmer's Glue.
That is a term Brian used, but your linked definition doesn't seem to fit B's. :lol:
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I'm quite sure if not positive, the huge changes/improvements Brian found while removing tiny portions of a gram of mass from a PR, was simply the damping/masking of a bass mode. It is highly unlikely to find ideal performance with matched Q between two speakers in a domestic room (commercial, yes...domestic no).
If I'm correct (I know I am), then every single ported speaker that prohibits the user from altering one or both port lengths (PR mass in Brian-speak) is improved by allowing the user to alter Q (change port length) between the L and R channel. In fact, one might posit that a designer should arrive at his chosen ideal Q, then stagger the two L/R channels: one channel +5%Q, the other channel -5%Q. Such is less likely to excite bass modes than two matched symmetrical Q.
In most domestic rooms, performance can only audibly improve with non-symmetrical bass tuning per L/R speaker. The only exception is if some non-symmetrical room boundary effect improved performance with symmetrical bass Q. But in this rare case, the ability to tune/stagger Q is not a determent, it just is unnecessary.
If I had ported speakers I'd staggering the port lengths. There are power handling considerations though, and sometimes with a 2-way, effects up to the mid range. Can't help you there.
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GOOD NEWS for those of you with Classic VMPS with "DYNA-RIBBONS".
This includes Early FF-1 and FF-3 owners.
We have uncovered 15 of the DYNA-RIBBONS (see photo below) $99 plus shipping.
I will update the INVENTORY page.
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT-9KkJFVRM_2xuIaU6DFqE8rRTHCRum8RMekNrUJI4HSEvvL9eIg)
Good ole Scan Speak D2800/20006 world-class domes (that attract dust like it's going out of style), flanking Brian's best-ever planar (not true ribbon) tweeter, the big bad Philips. Those planar tweeters are killer.
I think one of Brian's best speaker lines ever was the series just prior to this, with Brian's own poly/rubber 5.25" cone mids where you see two so-called "Dynaribbon" mids in the image above. Brian bought out all the remaining Dynaribbon stock from Just Speakers.
Oh, the good ole days, driving through San Francisco's Mission District and stopping in at Just Speakers on (24th St?) a couple blocks E of Valencia St. One of the proprietors was an early victim of AIDS, very sad.
Brian's shared Dunlavy's preference for shallow crossover slopes. Dunlavy physically offset the drivers for better time signature at closer listening distance. Brian's worked better with longer listening distance, and probably generally had larger dynamic output to work with longer listening distance. He did not promote listeners in his huge room to audition sitting up super close, at least with the big towers. Not much point in a 250# 6' tower at 8-10'! (Some of his larger towers worked well at close distance, model dependent.)
I auditioned huge Wilson towers up close and at long distances. Former sounds much better than the latter, same as Brian's.
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Hello Mr. Romeyn,
I own RM-1s and have been reading for the first time, about needed repairs to the Neo panels. I have two of the curvy style working fine in my RMs and traded for two more on thier way. I"m looking to keep these running as long as is possible, now find they need a fault repair. I would prefer to have all 4 repaired at the same time.
Can you please direct me to the proper address to get these repaired ?? Either you or angel.
Sincerely,
Shear Bliss
dmwest2011@hotmail.com
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email sent
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James R, that's very interesting information about the neo-panel alterations - thanks for posting.
I had a problem with these nuts coming loose a couple of years ago - I posted about it here:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=100812.msg1017673#msg1017673 (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=100812.msg1017673#msg1017673)
I don't know if that's the reason Brian put the nuts on the outside. I was always a bit nervous as to how tight the nuts should be.
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Let me know if interested in:
One only: VMPS 10" steel basket, black graphite impregnated poly cone (rubber surround IIRC...have to check) 40oz magnet, IIRC VMPS model is 4197, definitely made by Gefco, VMPS design, employed in Mini Tower II and possibly other models I can't recall. $20
One only: 10" WCF cone, 80oz magnet, steel basket, employed in RM40 and possibly other model, Brian apparently removed model stencil on magnet. Phase plug missing. If I can find phase plug I'll re-install it. $30.
Make me an offer before someone else scoops them up!
Also, as mentioned earlier, two Focal T120 fiberglass inverted dome tweeters employed prior to the Scan Speak domes, tested but never installed in working speaker...I still love these domes, some qualities possibly better than the SS D28 such as they go lower. New replacement voice coils were available years ago for these but they are likely gone now. Infinitely preferred musicality and overall audio performance vs. the more popular Kevlar domes Dave Wilson and Brian later used. $75/pr
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Recently found in the INVENTORY 2 BLACK LARGER SUBS.
We remaining LARGERS are 2 BLACK and 3 OAK
Will revise INVENTORY 1st page.
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After travelling to El Sobrante Saturday, I have just updated the INVENTORY.
What we found:
SINGLE RM-50 Prototype Cabinet (unfinished) Could be used as a VVLC (VERY, VERY LARGE CENTER)
Pair Black RM-30 cabinets
Several Pair of VMPS Dipole/Bipole Speakers (some finished and some cabinets)
3 pair RM v60 in Maccassar Ebony
and a few other items
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John, are those three complete built up pairs of V60s?
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Hi Dave,
No they are cabinets.
We do however have (currently) sufficient Neopanels for a couple pair and also the 6.5" Megas. The Tweeter is available so a pair can be built by one so inclined and experienced.
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Would anyone know where I could find a pair of 12" drivers for the vmps tower 2 se's, I would like them to match the set I got from Brian about a year ago, thanks
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ALL RM v60 cabinets are now Spoken for or SOLD
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Hello John. Would like two PRs for original subwoofer. Do you have them and for what price?
thanks
Oliver
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Just saw this tread today. Had parts for two RM40s (have since switched to other speakers)
I have 16 each Neo Panels & panel terminals are the 'nuts' version (Brian's update). All of these Neopanels have no or little use, are in excellent working condition & you can return defective panel(s) to me for refund if any of them don't function properly within a reasonable length of time, like 30 days. Cosmetics are good, that they are the same as when I got them from VMPS years ago. I would consider selling these neo panels for $115 each or $1550 (plus shipping) for all 16 assuming that I would still have them all still availanle.
bill13@optonline.net
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Does anybody have any information on Supertower II a/r?Any suggestions on upgrading the woofers crossovers? Any help would be greatly appreciated
Thanks
Joe
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I would be interested and able to pay immediately for a pair of RM40's if available and I am willing to take almost any configuration! Please email me anyone with any current model VMPS speakers as I would like to buy a pair while they are still available. I am in Chicago but can arrange for my own shipping if necessary.
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I have Pat Malaga building me a pair of custom modified RM40's out of some cabinets and drivers he had from some of Brian's stock he acquired from Brian's wife. Anyways, we are using (2) 10's with the one at the top being the ripped, double stacked woofer being used for midbass and the 10 at the bottom being sub base. We are using only (2) Neo Panel's because Pat says they are very efficient and I explained the towers that I currently have and like the sound of being comprised of (2) 4" drivers for mids so Pat says the (2) Neo's on the new VMPS he is building me will give me the dual cone 4" driver sound more efficiently.
The only issue I take is with the tweeter he currently is installing in my custom built RM40's (closest thing I can compare them to) he says is an original Brian Cheney VMPS tweeter but it looks like a titanium dome tweeter or something to that effect? He says they have a little yellow swirl on them and that he believes they were one of the (3) tweets that came in the RM40 originally but I only find pictures of the RM40 with the FST tweeter in the middle of 2 pairs of Neo panels?
What we are wondering is, are the FST a tweeter upgrade or was it an update to the RM40's done later in the production run? Is the FST field upgradable if you had an original RM40 tweeter design...will the FST tweeter fit the hole left by pulling out one of these tweeters? I have pictures available if necessary. Please let me know if you have any of these answers or maybe someone on this forum can answer these questions? Let me know if you have any FST tweeters available I can buy with a credit card and give you a UPS account number to send these to Pat Malaga for me so we can get them into my build.
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An earlier VMPS tweeter, with a "yellow swirl" makes me think it's a spiral ribbon tweeter:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=88839)
Two were used in earlier RM-40's:
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=88840)
They were originally an Infinity EMIT-R tweeter. Also used in Genesis Speakers top of the line Arnie Nudell designs. Good tweeters, nothing wrong with them.
Glad to hear that you're getting some 40's custom made. Other than used, very few options otherwise, to obtain a VMPS speaker. Though, I do wonder if 2 Neo panels will keep up with 2 mega-woofers? Brian used 4 panels for a reason...
Good Luck!
The only issue I take is with the tweeter he currently is installing in my custom built RM40's (closest thing I can compare them to) he says is an original Brian Cheney VMPS tweeter but it looks like a titanium dome tweeter or something to that effect? He says they have a little yellow swirl on them and that he believes they were one of the (3) tweets that came in the RM40 originally but I only find pictures of the RM40 with the FST tweeter in the middle of 2 pairs of Neo panels?
What we are wondering is, are the FST a tweeter upgrade or was it an update to the RM40's done later in the production run? Is the FST field upgradable if you had an original RM40 tweeter design...will the FST tweeter fit the hole left by pulling out one of these tweeters? I have pictures available if necessary. Please let me know if you have any of these answers or maybe someone on this forum can answer these questions? Let me know if you have any FST tweeters available I can buy with a credit card and give you a UPS account number to send these to Pat Malaga for me so we can get them into my build.
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I would be interested and able to pay immediately for a pair of RM40's if available and I am willing to take almost any configuration! Please email me anyone with any current model VMPS speakers as I would like to buy a pair while they are still available. I am in Chicago but can arrange for my own shipping if necessary.
Mine are for sale here in the AC Marketplace but I don't know about getting them to Chicago...
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I would be interested and able to pay immediately for a pair of RM40's if available and I am willing to take almost any configuration! Please email me anyone with any current model VMPS speakers as I would like to buy a pair while they are still available. I am in Chicago but can arrange for my own shipping if necessary.
Did you check with Bob Stark (a former owner/agent) ?
He had a pair, and he is in the Chicago area. I can also vouch for Rbbert's pair, as they are almost like mine (except for the caps) and also have the new CDWGs. The Maccassar Ebony is (IMO) an exceptionally nice finish.
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I have Pat Malaga building me a pair of custom modified RM40's out of some cabinets and drivers he had from some of Brian's stock he acquired from Brian's wife. Anyways, we are using (2) 10's with the one at the top being the ripped, double stacked woofer being used for midbass and the 10 at the bottom being sub base. We are using only (2) Neo Panel's because Pat says they are very efficient and I explained the towers that I currently have and like the sound of being comprised of (2) 4" drivers for mids so Pat says the (2) Neo's on the new VMPS he is building me will give me the dual cone 4" driver sound more efficiently.
The only issue I take is with the tweeter he currently is installing in my custom built RM40's (closest thing I can compare them to) he says is an original Brian Cheney VMPS tweeter but it looks like a titanium dome tweeter or something to that effect? He says they have a little yellow swirl on them and that he believes they were one of the (3) tweets that came in the RM40 originally but I only find pictures of the RM40 with the FST tweeter in the middle of 2 pairs of Neo panels?
What we are wondering is, are the FST a tweeter upgrade or was it an update to the RM40's done later in the production run? Is the FST field upgradable if you had an original RM40 tweeter design...will the FST tweeter fit the hole left by pulling out one of these tweeters? I have pictures available if necessary. Please let me know if you have any of these answers or maybe someone on this forum can answer these questions? Let me know if you have any FST tweeters available I can buy with a credit card and give you a UPS account number to send these to Pat Malaga for me so we can get them into my build.
What you are building is not an RM-40, but a resized RM-2. An RM40 must have 4 neopanels, and an RM-2 has 2.
The tweeter you are talking about is the "Spiral Ribbon" and must be used in pairs for the RM40. That said I have FST tweeters for the more recent version.
I would (and I don't mean to be a wet blanket) tend to think that "reconfiguring" and rebuilding one of Brian's designs will offer challenges that will not yield the VMPS sound, especially in the XO, that Brian created in his own way. These speakers need to be "wired" a specific way, and the XO's are very tricky.
While I don't have anyone who can build a speaker 4 U, I "do" have someone who has complete knowledge of what Brian did and how to reproduce it in the XO. My Suggestion would be to have them build the RM-40 "with" all the right drivers, and then contact me about having Kat Krossovers build you an OXO. This would also give you the option of going with the D-OXO if you like.
I fear that reconfiguring could leave you with a less than VMPS sound. PM me if you have questions.
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In case anyone is interested there is a ton of VMPS products being sold on craigslist from the same area where VMPS was located... http://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/?sort=rel&areaID=1&subAreaID=&query=vmps&catAbb=sss
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UPDATE to my previous October post here:
For those of you looking for VMPS drivers: I still have some available VMPS Neo Panels with panel terminals that are the 'nuts' version done by Brian Cheney. These Neo panels have little or no use, are in excellent working condition & you can return defective panel(s) to me for refund if any of them don't function properly within a reasonable length of time, like 30 days. Cosmetics are good. A few neo panels are like new, & were never used; but most remaining neo-panels were lightly used in an RM40 & have a few inches of hookup wire previously soldered to the terminals. Advantage of these used panels with wire leads is that you don't necessarily have to solder wires to the terminals -- excessive soldering heat is risky.
I am offering my remaining neo panels: One or two for $115 each, (plus shipping); or four or more for $100 each + shipping..... and the best deal: get 8 or more for only $95 each plus shipping --- assuming of course that the desired number of VMPS neo panels are still available.
Also have VMPS early spiral tweeters, also a pair of modified FST ‘swinging’ true ribbon VMPS tweeters (cheap, because I very crudely cut the front plate for mounting). As I recall, these true-ribbon FST ‘swinging’ tweeters were intended by designer Brian Cheney to be located on top of the RM40 front baffle pointed down at the listener --- but, I modified them by cutting the front mounting plate to mount them in the middle of the RM40 front baffle where the spiral tweeters used to be. The FST ribbons work OK for the application – RM40 used around 7.5 kHz high-pass crossover for the FST ribbon tweeters from the neo panels, as I recall. Years ago, designer Brian Cheney told me that, in his opinion, his FST true-ribbons were better than the similar size Raven R1 ribbons (I found this opinion a bit hard to accept).
Anyway, the modified FST ribbons are offered cheap at $130 + ship for the pair -- work OK, but cosmetics not good - only for DIY hobbyists who want to experiment.
Contact me if you are interested in the spiral tweeters.
Bill
bill13@optonline.net
in New Jersey
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=92191)
Does anyone know where I can get a replacement electronic crossover for this tower?
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Rocky,
You may want to try out a MiniDSP. You can get the 2x4 for under $150. It has 2 inputs and 4 outputs, to control the high and low ends. It can control both speakers and has a pretty nice software program to program and test your settings. It also works with REW so you can measure the output of the speakers and have the software make automatic adjustments. Let me know if you try this route.
Bill13,
That package arrived safely, the Neo Panels look great. Thanks.
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UPDATE:
Sold about half of my VMPS drivers so far - thanks to VMPS AudioCircle members.
So, now I have 8 used, good condition, VMPS neo panels from my previous RM40 speaker with short length soldered wires (few inches) attached to terminals.
Also still have four unused neo-panels (no wires ever attached/soldered).
All neo-panels are Brian Cheney’s update version.
IMO, the used VMPS neo-panels are as good as the unused ones. Pricing is $115 each plus shipping for two (two panels are the minimum quantity to be sold at a time). Can discount price for four or more neo-panels as stated in my previous post here (if they are still available).
Also have two each used VMPS spiral tweeters for $35 each plus ship - only will sell as a pair.
Still have a working pair (poor cosmetics) of modified old true-ribbon so-called 'swinging' tweeters for experimenters only, as stated in previous post.
Bill (in NJ)
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I just ordered what looks like the last of the WCF RM40 10" woofers.
According to the OEM, these are the last of the WCF cone stock, which actually Brian sourced and sent to the OEM.
I will have both the midbass and the low bass drivers.
They will be the same price as what Brian charged, $125 each plus shipping.
I also have a NOS "vitrified" 15" Passive Radiator with the full putty compliment for $35 plus shipping.
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John,
I assumed Brian magnetized the woofers himself, adjusting the strength of the mid woofer differently than that of the low bass woofer.
Will these be identical to the latest woofers used in the RM40 production? (motor, phase plug, rubber surround and basket)
Please send me a cost estimate for shipping one mid and one low bass woofer to 53142.
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I believe at one time, Brian "did" the magnetization himself, but the factory also had the capability and precision to meet his specs.
According to my contact, these will be built the same as Brian's last orders of this driver. I am not sure however about the phase plug, which Brian told me he made in house.
I will PM you the total shipped cost.
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UPDATE:
Sold about half of my VMPS drivers so far - thanks to VMPS AudioCircle members.
So, now I have 8 used, good condition, VMPS neo panels from my previous RM40 speaker with short length soldered wires (few inches) attached to terminals.
Also still have four unused neo-panels (no wires ever attached/soldered).
All neo-panels are Brian Cheney’s update version.
IMO, the used VMPS neo-panels are as good as the unused ones. Pricing is $115 each plus shipping for two (two panels are the minimum quantity to be sold at a time). Can discount price for four or more neo-panels as stated in my previous post here (if they are still available).
Also have two each used VMPS spiral tweeters for $35 each plus ship - only will sell as a pair.
Still have a working pair (poor cosmetics) of modified old true-ribbon so-called 'swinging' tweeters for experimenters only, as stated in previous post.
Bill (in NJ)
Hi Bill - I'd be interested in purchasing the pair spiral ribbon tweeters off of you if they're still available. I'm currently in the process of restoring a pair of severely cosmetically challenged 626R's back to their former glory, and it looks as if one of the previous owners of the set took it upon themselves to cover the front plate of one of the tweeters in a mess of hot glue. I'm still new to Audiocircle, so cannot send you a PM at the moment (hence this post), but can coordinate via whatever other means of communications you prefer.
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24 March 2014
Yes, still have some good used VMPS neo panels available -- removed from RM40 speakers. Pricing is $115 each plus shipping for two (two panels are the minimum quantity to be sold at a time).
Price for four or more neo-panels is reduced to $100 each plus shipping + insurance (USPS priority mail which I understand is less expensive compared to FedEx or UPS). All my new, unused, neo panels have been sold.
If you are interested email me at bill13@optonline.net (PayPal or MO). Note: PayPal charges a (extra) transaction fee. If you want a shipping cost estimate (+insurance, + PayPal fee, if applicable) please include your USA address.
Sorry, I did not see your posting until today - haven't visited this AudioCircle thread in quite a while.
Bill
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26 March 2014
Still have pair of used VMPS early spiral ribbon tweeters removed from RM40 speakers for $35 each. Email me at bill13@optonline.net if you are interested.
BTW, already sold a pair of VMPS spiral ribbon tweeters (had total of four each).
Bill
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Are there any more neopanels left? I am hoping those are the ones I am looking for, for my AV123 Onix Strata Mini's.
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I believe I still have 8 each VMPS Neopanel planar magnetic drivers left -- I would have to check my 'inventory' if somebody wants to buy all eight.
My VMPS neopanels look similar to the 8" planar magnetic drivers used in your AV123 Onix Strata Mini's -- but I do not know if my VMPS brand neopanels would perform the same in Onix brand speakers . The physical & electrical parameters might be different.
Perhaps you should try to find out more info about your AV123 Onix Strata Mini's midrange driver - perhaps contact the speaker manufacturer? Somehow, I doubt that VMPS specs are identical.
Bill
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9 August 2014 update:
I now have six (6) VMPS Neo Panels with panel terminals that are the 'nuts' improvement that was done by Brian Cheney. These are in very good condition, and are the neo panels that VMPS used in their RM40 speakers.
Pricing for these remaining neo panels: One or two for $115 each, (plus shipping); or four or more for $100 each + shipping {+ PayPal fee if applicable}.
These neo panels are great midrange drivers, I believe.
Bill
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John,
Any inventory (drivers, passive radiators, cabinets etc.) left for VMPS Subwoofers?
Thanks!
Eric.
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John,
Any inventory (drivers, passive radiators, cabinets etc.) left for VMPS Subwoofers?
Thanks!
Eric.
Hi Eric,
No cabinets
one 12" UltraMegaWoofer - $179 plus shipping (NEW)
one 15" NOS Passive Radiator $49 plus shipping
I can also get the NEW 15" UltraPR = $115 plus shipping or the 12" version for $109 plus shipping.
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Per chance do you have a copy of a VMPS RM40 manual? I acquired the RM40's not long ago minus the manual.
Thanks,
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9 August 2014 update:
I now have six (6) VMPS Neo Panels with panel terminals that are the 'nuts' improvement that was done by Brian Cheney. These are in very good condition, and are the neo panels that VMPS used in their RM40 speakers.
Pricing for these remaining neo panels: One or two for $115 each, (plus shipping); or four or more for $100 each + shipping {+ PayPal fee if applicable}.
These neo panels are great midrange drivers, I believe.
Bill
Hi Bill, please respond to my private messages. I am now certain I have damaged my Rm2 neo panels. The imaging is way off, high vocals are coming from one side only. Treble (FST) seems to be even. I am sure it is the panels.
Need replacements.
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Per chance do you have a copy of a VMPS RM40 manual? I acquired the RM40's not long ago minus the manual.
Thanks,
Hi Stehno,
There are no RM40 manuals per se. Brian often (unless requested not to) placed instructions on a sheet pasted to the rear of the speaker.
If you have questions, post them here.
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klapse,
I replied by email to you.
I still have VMPS neo panels, but strongly prefer to ship to a USA address (you are in Germany).
I have no experience shipping overseas. Foreign shipping fees, customs, currency exchange, extra PayPal fees and so forth ..... seems like more problems with extra expenses which may make the transaction not worthwhile.
Bill
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thank you, Bill.
I've heard both that there are no manuals and that there are. My seller told me he had a manual and lost it.
I do have one large sticker on the back of one speaker.
Questions, okay?
Q1. How was Brian able to make such a musical speaker such as the RM40 (and apparently his many other models)?
Q2. How was Brian able to make such a musical speaker such as the RM40 (and apparently his many other models) for such low cost?
Q3. What do you consider to be the speakers weakest trait? Because frankly I'm not hearing any.
Q4. Why do I have such pride of ownership with these speakers?
8)
Seriously, although I've heard the VMPS name over the years I gave them no never mind. But a few months back I happened to see this pair for sale and decided to do a little research. Well, it just so happened that my favorite reviewer Peter Moncrieff of IAR had done a special write up on the RM40's and waxed about as eloquently as he ever has about a product. Marty DeWolf of B4S did something similar. Well, at that point I jumped on these and I'm really glad I did. For an extra $500 the seller even delivered them 800 miles to my door and I kid you not, he used white rubber gloves and even had an extra pair of gloves for me. They are quite heavy but well worth every little inconvenience.
My units are supposedly about 8 or 9 years old and had about $2500 in upgrades. Is there anything that should prevent these from lasting another 5 or 10 years or do I need to consider stocking up on inventory?
Thanks for your time,
-John
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That was refreshing! It has been a long time since we had that kind of super enthusiastic post in this circle. They are great aren't they? Brian had a great ear. He also had a lot of experience. How about posting some pictures of your system Stehno?
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Well, my pics are a bit outdated, but this was my exhibiting room at RMAF in 2011 and these speakers were loaners. I need to get some fresh pics with the RM40's. Both of my components have also been rather seriously upgraded in recent months.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=105722)
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klapse,
I replied by email to you.
I still have VMPS neo panels, but strongly prefer to ship to a USA address (you are in Germany).
I have no experience shipping overseas. Foreign shipping fees, customs, currency exchange, extra PayPal fees and so forth ..... seems like more problems with extra expenses which may make the transaction not worthwhile.
Bill
Bill, you should be able to ship a pair of bubble wrapped drivers to Germany in a US Post office Priority Mail International® Medium Flat Rate Box (insured for $350) for $62. International PayPal fees are 4% @ $13. Just have klapse PayPal you in US dollars.
http://ircalc.usps.com/MailServices.aspx?country=10137&m=13&p=0&o=1&mt=12&MailingDate=9/23/2014&MailingTime=8:00%20AM&dv=400
The Post office does not charge any customs broker fees. (I believe FedEx & UPS does.) The recipient will probably be responsible for some duties or VAT upon delivery. The customs paper work is very easy to fill out, the post office folks will help you with that when you drop it off. You will probably wait in line longer than it takes to do the paper work.
I've shipped my monitor loudspeakers overseas many times by Priority mail. They usually get there within a few days & I haven't ever had any problems.
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fritzspeakers,
I sympathize with klapse about repairing his speakers.
However, I am still very wary of foreign shipment hassles with all the extra paperwork and fees.
I strongly prefer just to wait for domestic buyers -- there seems to be enough domestic demand for used good condition VMPS neo panels (bolts/nuts terminals).
Looks very likely that I will only have four panels left after today (waiting payment for two panels).
Bill
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Perhaps klapse knows someone in the US who can forward them to him.
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fritzspeakers, & /mp,
I changed my mind about shipping four VMPS neo panels (nuts/bolts terminals) to klaspe in Germany, thanks to the helpful and encouraging post by fritzspeakers (see above posting) , and klaspe's generous offer: you might say, 'an offer I couldn't refuse'.
All six of the remaining VMPS neo panels now have been sold - no more are left.
Thank you all for your interest in the VMPS neo panels.
I imagine that in the future speaker-builder hobbyists with some crossover design/modification experience might be able to substitute Bohlender Graebener, Neo8-S Mid / Tweeter for the VMPS neo panel ??? (note: BG Neo8-S version is evidently available from Meniscus Audio for $109 without the mounting plate ... IMO, you don't need the BG mounting plate, so I think).
The BG Neo8-s planar driver looks a lot like the 8" tall VMPS neo panel (!).
One could say that the Neo8-S is the new version of the older BG Neo 8.
The new superior BG Neo8-S makes use of the engineering improvements from the recent Neo 10 (see the impressive 'Zaph' measurements for the Neo 10).
The Neo8-S magnet system is nearly twice as thick as the older neo8 driver.
The 8-S has better sensitivity. 8 ohm impedance & newer BG Neo8-S features corrugations on the sides of the diaphragm for (much) lower distortion in the 250-300Hz range. :D
Wish Good luck to you VMPS speaker owners.
Bill
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Just wanted to send a big "thanks" to Bill13 for sending the VMPS panels. I have pretty severe imaging problems (center panned (mono) voices coming mostly from the left speaker).
Hopefully the 4 panels will keep my RM2s running for years to come. I also ordered a pair of Aurum Cantus FSTs for the eventuality that my tweeters die someday.
Cheers to all, VMPS is unique in this world. Hope someday another manufacturer takes up the reins and continues this fine tradition of phase coherent, planar midrange speakers!
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Cheers to all, VMPS is unique in this world. Hope someday another manufacturer takes up the reins and continues this fine tradition of phase coherent, planar midrange speakers!
I am working with a group right now that has that potential. Should have prototypes by the first of the year.
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Can anybody tell me what the exact crossover frequencies are for the RM40's? Mine are about 8 - 9 years old.
Also, if the upper woofer (mid-woofer?) crossover frequencies are the same as the lower?
Thanks,
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Can anybody tell me what the exact crossover frequencies are for the RM40's? Mine are about 8 - 9 years old.
Also, if the upper woofer (mid-woofer?) crossover frequencies are the same as the lower?
Thanks,
Early on, IIRC Brian crossed over at 166Hz. Later he moved up to over 200Hz (210-280Hz) so it would be difficult to know where your pair came in.
He may have employed a slightly different filter to the two woofers, but I don't think so. Instead he used two slightly different woofers that had slightly differing performances. This had a couple incarnations, and we even had a "mid-woofer" upgrade option at one time.
Later, he used the SAME woofers and said he "magnetized" the magnet at a different strength, which was the final incarnation.
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Thanks, John.
I think my woofer to mid x-over is 166Hz.
My speakers have the upgraded top woofers as the seller provided me the originals as extras.
I suspect my mid - high x-over is 10kHz but I recall reading that the later versions had the x-over frequency lowered to 8kHz or somewhere around there.
I take it there's no identifier that would confirm my speaker's age and hence the x-over frequencies?
If not, then why the hell did I spend such big bucks ($1,500 + $500 shipping) on these fabulous speakers when I could have spent far more for far less? 8)
The main thing I wanted to know was if I have a 4-way or 3-way x-over. Any help there?
Thanks,
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Thanks, John.
I think my woofer to mid x-over is 166Hz.
My speakers have the upgraded top woofers as the seller provided me the originals as extras.
I suspect my mid - high x-over is 10kHz but I recall reading that the later versions had the x-over frequency lowered to 8kHz or somewhere around there.
I take it there's no identifier that would confirm my speaker's age and hence the x-over frequencies?
If not, then why the hell did I spend such big bucks ($1,500 + $500 shipping) on these fabulous speakers when I could have spent far more for far less? 8)
The main thing I wanted to know was if I have a 4-way or 3-way x-over. Any help there?
Thanks,
High Pass was never that high that I know of.
With the Double Spiral Tweeters it was 6.9Khz, and with the FST it was lowered to 5.9Khz.
Since the woofers act as a single woofer, it is a 3-way XO network.
You can't buy a decent Stand Mount Speaker for that price (and I mean a SINGLE STAND MOUNT SPEAKER) much less a PAIR of the best Floor Standers ever made. :thumb:
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=106132)
Thank you. Regarding my comment about cost, I hope you picked up on the smiley behind it.
Here's the speakers' description used in the seller's advertisement:
------------------------------------------------------------
"But they are huge, over 66" tall and weigh over 240lbs each...
Shipping these monsters is totally out of the question,
so they must be picked up.... (I will meet buyer half way within a 100 miles or so)
I am the original owner, bought them new directly from VMPS. MANY VMPS upgrades...
The beautiful full wrap Rosewood finish,
FST tweeter upgrade..... best sounding tweeter I've ever heard.
TRTs cap upgrade...
Analysis Plus 12 gauge Silver bass wire,
MidBass MEGAWOOFER! Driver upgrade....
These speakers have been known to bring tears to the eyes of their listeners... they are that special..... if you're a Metallica fan, or a fan of music period.... you won't believe your ears... If you have the room for these, and the electronics... you will be blown away...
As you can see from the pictures these speakers are in excellent condition, no scratches or dings.
All drivers and grills are in excellent condition as well.....
Suggested retail for these speakers with upgrades is well over $6k....really
Specifications:
FST Tweeter, Four 8" Neodymium Midrange Panels, Two 10" Woven Carbon Fiber Woofers
Nominal Impedance: 4 Ohms
- 3 dB at 24 Hz
Power Handling 500W
Bi-Wireable
Dimensions: 66" H x 12.5" W x 17" D
Weight: 240 lbs each
MSRP: $5,000/Pair USA Depending on Finish; $6,200/Pair for Review Units
---------------------------
BTW, Peter Moncrieff's review referenced the x-over frequencies numeous times. For example:
"The midrange driver alone handles virtually the entire musical range, from 166 Hz all the way up to 10 kHz."
So I guess that's where I picked up my x-over numbers.
Thanks, again.
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=106133)
The first pic was from the ad. This is my listening room today.
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Yours have the FST tweeter so I would guess you bass filter is around 220Hz - 250Hz or so. The 166Hz was back in 2002 when they first came out and had dual Spiral Tweets.
I think B, raised it when he went to the FST.
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I have a pair of Cherry finish RM-40 ' s and a single gloss black 40 The black 40 needs a FST tweeter since I used the original in my 626.Small room and bad knees are the only reason for parting with these.The cherry veneer has some bubbling but sound great and are being listened to as I type.The gloss black I personally picked up from Brian and upon opening them at home, the paint was sticking to the foam and boxes.They also were not sanded properly. I was upset to say the least.I called Brian and he was more than willing to fix the cosmetics if I brought them back. I made the mistake of installing them for a listen and never took them out.( A testament to the phenomenal sound he designed with the 40's) I ended up with six 40 ' s in a Trinaural / HT system in my larger home. I was done... I am close to Sacramento Ca.Contact if interested.These all have mega woofers and all came with the FST ' S and mega woofers when built new.
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John, thanks for all the info regarding my RM-40's.
In sum, it seems that my RM-40's consist of:
o A 3-way x-over. (upper and lower bass drivers cover same frequency range)
o X-over frequencies are approximately 220-250Hz and 5.9kHz.
Two more questions if I may:
1. Are the speaker binding posts easily replaceable? e.g. do I need to perform any soldering?
2. Are the internal wires (i.e driver wire to x-over, x-over wire to binding posts) easily replaceable? e.g. do I need to perform any soldering?
I ask because 1) as one who uses fully-immersed cryo'ed speaker cables, I'd like to replace the binding posts with a cryo'ed copper, rhodium, or silver binding post and perhaps one day do the same for the internal wiring, and 2) I'm no soldering expert.
I earlier asked about the x-overs because one day if I'm really ambitious, I might commission an expert solderer to convert the x-overs to external chassis' so they can then be mounted on a shelf for some extreme vibration mgmt.
One day, I may even have some T-6061 aluminum base plates machined to replace the mdf/plywood base plates so I can properly anchor these 240 lbs. behemoths to the sub-flooring system. I know Brian C. recommended not doing so, but as much of a genius he probably was, that still doesn't mean he knew or understood everything. 8)
Thanks for your help,
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Two more questions if I may:
1. Are the speaker binding posts easily replaceable? e.g. do I need to perform any soldering?
2. Are the internal wires (i.e driver wire to x-over, x-over wire to binding posts) easily replaceable? e.g. do I need to perform any soldering?
1) Yes they are easily changed. Likely you would need to solder the wires to your new posts, so that job would depend on the posts you select and the method they use to connect.
2) I wouldn't say the internal wiring is "easy" to replace, since there are quite a few connections. And they are all "point to point" connections soldered into place.
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Thanks, John.
I should have been more specific. I'm bi-wiring but the purple Analysis Plus jumpers that came with the RM-40's have ring terminals at either end for easy fastening at both binding posts.
If I purchase the right binding posts, do the internals have ring terminals for easy fastening?
Can you tell me what binding post size and length I should be looking for?
And finally, do you have an outright recommendation on some good copper, rhodium, or silver binding posts properly sized for the RM-40's?
Very much appreciated.
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Thanks, John.
I should have been more specific. I'm bi-wiring but the purple Analysis Plus jumpers that came with the RM-40's have ring terminals at either end for easy fastening at both binding posts.
If I purchase the right binding posts, do the internals have ring terminals for easy fastening?
??? If you are bi-wiring you should not be using the Analysis Plus Jumpers.
Internals? Internals what? Do you mean do all binding posts have internal posts with nuts and washers?
I think you can only find that out when you select the binding post you decide to use. Most have a threaded portion on the inside post to tighen the post to the cabinet. You might be able to aquire an additional nut of the same size to tighten on the wiring, but generally they have solder connections.
Can you tell me what binding post size and length I should be looking for?
You will need at least 1.5" posts.
And finally, do you have an outright recommendation on some good copper, rhodium, or silver binding posts properly sized for the RM-40's?
Very much appreciated.
Take a look at Michael Percy (http://www.percyaudio.com/Catalog.pdf) and his CARDAS posts
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Thanks, John.
No, I'm not using the AP jumpers whilst I bi-wire.
By internals, I meant internal wiring from the x-over and specifically the connections at the internal side of the binding posts. I had a pair of speakers that used ring terminals on the internal wiring at the speaker binding posts. I was hoping this might be the case with the RM-40's.
Binding posts need to be 1.5" long, eh? That seems longer than most I've seen.
Much appreciated.
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Are there anymore Large SW upgrade parts? Megawoofer and or PR's ?
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Are there anymore Large SW upgrade parts? Megawoofer and or PR's ?
There are no more NOS parts, but we do have an upgraded ULTRAMEGA Passive Radiator in 12" and 15" sizes. The LARGER uses the 15".
Contact me, if interested
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Can anyone tell me who was the manufacturer of the RM40 10" upper and lower woofers?
Thanks
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Can anyone tell me who was the manufacturer of the RM40 10" upper and lower woofers?
Thanks
They were made by Misco, but no longer available.
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They were made by Misco, but no longer available.
I'd have to look at them to see who the mtg'er is, but I have an extra pair of the uppers.
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What would be some good/comparable 10" replacement woofers to use in the RM40s?
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What would be some good/comparable 10" replacement woofers to use in the RM40s?
That'd be almost impossible to guess. Misco custom manufactured Brian's woofers, to Brian's specifications.
So, only Brian knew what that was.
Best case scenario, someone with a good test set-up, would need to measure an upper and lower set of RM-40
woofers. From that, one could possibly spec out replacements.
Other than that, if Misco would sell direct, I'd recommend these:
http://www.miscospeakers.com/speakers/OOC10W-8C (http://www.miscospeakers.com/speakers/OOC10W-8C)
or
http://www.miscospeakers.com/speakers/OC10W-8C (http://www.miscospeakers.com/speakers/OC10W-8C)
They might be pretty close to Brian's design, minus the phase plug. I wonder if we could talk John into stocking up??? :thumb:
Also, Brian used a lot of different Goldwood woofers too. Maybe one of these:
http://www.parts-express.com/goldwood-gw-10pc-4-10-heavy-duty-woofer-4-ohm--290-322 (http://www.parts-express.com/goldwood-gw-10pc-4-10-heavy-duty-woofer-4-ohm--290-322)
or
http://www.parts-express.com/goldwood-gw-1034-10-butyl-surround-woofer-4-ohm--290-361 (http://www.parts-express.com/goldwood-gw-1034-10-butyl-surround-woofer-4-ohm--290-361)
Finally, this MCM woofer gets good reviews, and uses a carbon fiber woven cone. It could work for the upper
woofer:
http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/55-1556 (http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/55-1556)
All just guesses on my part. But, if I had RM-40's, or any VMPS, for that matter, I'd keep them up and running,
no matter what!
Good luck.
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Candy anyone?
These are the spare RM40 upper woofers sitting on my shelf.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=117377)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=117379)
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Nice woofers. Are the 10" uppers new/unused and what are you looking to get for them? I'm not sure if I need then yet. I have some reassembly and testing to do yet. I have had to epoxy the rubber surround to the baskets in the past, so far so good.
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I've no idea what their market value is.
These woofers were included with my purchase of the RM40's last year.
The seller told me these were the original upper woofers and he upgraded to VMPS' latest.
If I sold them, I'd offer no guarantee whatsoever since I've never listened to them. But I have to assume they work otherwise the seller never would not have included them with the sale.
If anybody needs a pair of RM40 upper woofer's, make me an offer I can't refuse.
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can some one tell me if you can still buy the add on tweeters recommended for the RM 40"s?
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can some one tell me if you can still buy the add on tweeters recommended for the RM 40"s?
Hi Lenny,
Yes, I still have a few of the Spiral Ribbon Tweeters and the FST tweeters for the RM40.
I will PM you the details.
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Hi,
I'm in search of two 12" passive radiators for the RM2 - one of the surrounds has a tear. Please let me know what you recommend in terms of replacing both.
Thanks!
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Hi,
I'm in search of two 12" passive radiators for the RM2 - one of the surrounds has a tear. Please let me know what you recommend in terms of replacing both.
Thanks!
The best PR's are the UltraMega PRs, but I don't know if they are still available. They are so MUCH better than the stock versions.
Where are you located?
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Thanks John,
This is for a friend and he's located in Philly.
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Thanks John,
This is for a friend and he's located in Philly.
Yes, I checked, there are a few left. They are $99 each and $24 shipping each.
They compare performance wise to the old TC Sounds, but at a lower price.
Can be shipped to Philly.
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Oh that's a relief. Who's the new manufacturer?
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Oh that's a relief. Who's the new manufacturer?
I actually work with the distributor to get the performance and fit for VMPS, so it is an OEM via a Distributor.
These, as long as I can get them, are available through me.
I was given word that the 15" might be going away soon. The 15" are only for the Subs and Towers with 15" PR's.
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John,
I have a pair of Super Tower/R's that I bought in 1989. Do you have the 15" passive radiators for these speakers? Also are the 12" and 15" woofers available? The PR and woofers both have decomposed foam surrounds.
thanks,
George
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Hi George,
I'm sure that John will answer you soon. But, also consider having your woofers and passive radiators refoamed. Refoam kits are very inexpensive, and aren't hard to do. Or you could send your drivers to a professional to have them rebuilt. Bill LeGall, at Millersound, is one of the best speaker repair techs in the country, and his prices are very reasonable. If John doesn't have any replacements, give Bill a call.
http://www.millersound.net/indexfl.htm (http://www.millersound.net/indexfl.htm)
Good luck, and welcome to AC.
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Does anyone have a neodymium Midian else for sale? One of mine on my rm40 is cutting out.
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Stimpy is correct in that Bill LeGall of Millersound does excellent work, he did my ST/Rs 15" passive and 15" active as well as the 12" Bass Couplers to perfection.
Check out what 6moons had to say on Bill and Millersound in their road trip section when they visited, a good read.
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Does anyone have a neodymium Midian else for sale? One of mine on my rm40 is cutting out.
I still have some from Brian's widow for $179 each.
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John,
Do you still have any of the 15" Ultramega PR's left. I think I would like to get a set of these for my ST/R's. Was there an Ultramega 15" woofer that fit the ST/R?
Thanks,
Brian
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John,
Do you still have any of the 15" Ultramega PR's left. I think I would like to get a set of these for my ST/R's. Was there an Ultramega 15" woofer that fit the ST/R?
Thanks,
Brian
Hi Brian,
I will check, but I know inventory was running low.
Regarding the Active 15" woofers; Brian used different 15" drivers in different models over the years, so it is impossible to know what "currently available" driver might substitute.
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John,
Do you still have any of the 15" Ultramega PR's left. I think I would like to get a set of these for my ST/R's. Was there an Ultramega 15" woofer that fit the ST/R?
Thanks,
Brian
Just got an answer and sent you an e-mail. We have a few left.
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Hello, Ive been a member a while but just lurked Mostly. Previously had a vintage pair of Super Tower II SE. Just picked up a pair of Tower II's and what I think is an original Larger Subwoofer. All drivers need re-foamed which i can handle but the 15 passive in the Larger Subwoofer I believe is shot as it sags something terrible. Is there any replacement 15 inch passive available for its replacement? I know I could go get a generic passive and work at tuning it but would rather have something that Brian would have approved of in going in this design at some point.
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Hello, Ive been a member a while but just lurked Mostly. Previously had a vintage pair of Super Tower II SE. Just picked up a pair of Tower II's and what I think is an original Larger Subwoofer. All drivers need re-foamed which i can handle but the 15 passive in the Larger Subwoofer I believe is shot as it sags something terrible. Is there any replacement 15 inch passive available for its replacement? I know I could go get a generic passive and work at tuning it but would rather have something that Brian would have approved of in going in this design at some point.
Hi Oliver,
There are a handful of the 15" Ultra-Mega Passives left. They are extremely heavy duty and will play noticeably deeper and to higher SPL.
I will PM you details if you are interested.
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On a side note ( just in case) are there any upgrade replacement drivers available for either/ both the larger sub and/ or the Tower II's, or or does anyone know of someone who may know the specs on the original drivers so i may be able to search for some. Originals are in good condition except for surrounds but if good drivers are available reasonably, it may be worth paying the difference between the re-foam kits and the drivers. ( just an idea I thought i would look into before making a final decision).
John, Thank you. i will let you know as soon as i get the original passive out to be sure my assumption of it being shot is correct. It appears as if the spider has sagged terribly over the years. And on that note; does anyone have any tricks to getting to the passive on the larger sub? it appears that the bottom of cabinet was stapled together around the passive. i hate to damage the cabinet in this process.
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Hi John,
I am repairing my RM2s that I bought from Brian a long while ago. I believe my units were the first with the new 160-Hz panels (that eventually self destroyed). Do you still have any UltraMega PRs left, as well as neo panels and tweeters, spiral or FST? Also, any crossover upgrades?
Kind regards,
Alex
Kansas City
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Hi Alex,
I'm sure John will respond soon. But, he's also involved in launching the new EVOKE line of loudspeakers too. So, maybe nudge him a bit, by sending him a PM too, with your needs. Also, if John comes up short on parts, PM me, and I can recommend some possible eBay sourced replacement alternatives.
One thing scares me with your RM-2 comments. Your's seem to use the original 160 Hz crossover point. I believe Brian revised that a bit higher, in later versions. Somewhere around 270 Hz. As such, your planar mids won't respond well to high power. Unless you can mod the crossover point, I wouldn't crank the speakers too much, once you get replacement mids.
Good luck.
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Hi John,
I am repairing my RM2s that I bought from Brian a long while ago. I believe my units were the first with the new 160-Hz panels (that eventually self destroyed). Do you still have any UltraMega PRs left, as well as neo panels and tweeters, spiral or FST? Also, any crossover upgrades?
Kind regards,
Alex
Kansas City
Hi Alex,
I'll check with the Widow to see what is left.
Send me an e-mail.
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One thing scares me with your RM-2 comments...
Hi Stimpy,
Thank you for your advice! I appreciate it. I plan to measure the crossover frequencies soon, perhaps this coming weekend. I do feel that the panels are not as clean starting from about a half the volume, so you may be correct.
Kind regards,
Alex
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Hi Stimpy,
Thank you for your advice! I appreciate it. I plan to measure the crossover frequencies soon, perhaps this coming weekend. I do feel that the panels are not as clean starting from about a half the volume, so you may be correct.
Kind regards,
Alex
You're welcome! Again, I hope everything works out with the speaker repairs.
As to the mid panel crossover, I'd tweak it, if possible. My Monsoon FPF600s and FPF1000s speakers use the same mid panels, and Monsoon used a 400 Hz high pass point. So anywhere from 275 Hz to 400 Hz should work. I guess it would depend if you want more or less midbass, to determine which point to use. Fast and clean, 275 Hz, slightly warmer 400 Hz.
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Yes, Brian used 155hz, 166hz, 210hz, 220hz and maybe even up to 250hz from the woofs to the Neopanels, depending on model and WHEN they were made.
The last few years were at the 210+ levels.
The upper hinge was 5.9Khz and 6.9Khz, again depending on the tweeter used.
His main focus always being to use the greatest usable FR from the Neopanels, without XO and phase issues.
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So anywhere from 275 Hz to 400 Hz should work. I guess it would depend if you want more or less midbass, to determine which point to use. Fast and clean, 275 Hz, slightly warmer 400 Hz.
Hi Stimpy,
My RM2s have 12" Mega Woofers. They look like carbon fiber. Do you know what their highest frequency is? I mean, even 275 Hz might be too high for them to handle, no?
Thanks,
Alex
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Hi Stimpy,
My RM2s have 12" Mega Woofers. They look like carbon fiber. Do you know what their highest frequency is? I mean, even 275 Hz might be too high for them to handle, no?
Thanks,
Alex
A good quality 12" woofer will have absolutely have no issues with playing up to 275 Hz, and even higher! Brian personally designed his woven carbon fiber woofer, and had it manufactured to his specs. So, as well built as it is, I wouldn't worry with it playing higher in frequency. You're not going to damage it!
Also, one of the best selling, and best sounding 12" 3-way speakers of all time, is the classic Acoustic Research AR-3a. All versions of the 3 and 3a have a paper cone 12" woofer, that crossed over to their mid at around 575 Hz. Even Infinity used their 12" woofers up to 800 Hz in the Kappa 7.
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I just found this too.
http://pointillistic.com/vmps-audio/RM2.htm (http://pointillistic.com/vmps-audio/RM2.htm)
In the final version of the RM-2, Brian was using a 280 Hz crossover point to the panels...
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Hi John,
I am still using a pair of original subwoofers I bought from Brian. One dates back to the late 80's. Both woofers were upgraded to carbon fiber and the passive radiators were upgraded but not to the Ultra-Mega Passives. Do you still have any Ultra-Mega Passives left?
Regards,
Mark
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Thank you to John for posting the inventory available thread! I am new to audio circle and have Super Tower II/ar's.
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I realize this post is a few years old, but I need a 10" and 12" woofer for one of my RMX speakers. Also, if there are newer drivers, say after 2005, or other drivers that work and may be better than the originals, I would need another pair for the other speaker as well.
Thanks,
Ron
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I just found this too.
http://pointillistic.com/vmps-audio/RM2.htm (http://pointillistic.com/vmps-audio/RM2.htm)
In the final version of the RM-2, Brian was using a 280 Hz crossover point to the panels...
Does anyone have a circuit diagram of the crossover in Ribbon Monitor 2? Would be much appreciated. Thanks!
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I am looking for a 10 and 12 inch driver for one RMX speaker. Two of each may be necessary to make sure both sides are the same.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Ron
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I have break-up in the midrange or tweeter in one of my two LRCs, used on a bookshelf. I'd be interested in buying a pair of both the midrange panels and the spiral tweeters or suitable alternates as available. Any help would be appreciated as I really love these speakers. Please see photos attached.
Thanks.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=158989)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=158990)
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Audionautic, Sounds like you need to check your L-Pads, turn them left and right several times, the contacts could have some corrosion. Its a shot maybe your mid panel or tweeter is still fine. Good Luck, Zak
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Worth a try, ZAKski. Good idea. If it makes any difference, do you know if there's any reason not to use some FaderLube or such on them and really clean them out?
I hope you're right! Thanks.
(Still interested in getting spare tweets and mids though.)
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DeoxIT D5 or Gold is what you want to clean audio contacts like L-pads etc.
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Worth a try, ZAKski. Good idea. If it makes any difference, do you know if there's any reason not to use some FaderLube or such on them and really clean them out?
I hope you're right! Thanks.
(Still interested in getting spare tweets and mids though.)
Hi Audionautic,
I tried to PM you, but you don't have a email address associated with your account, to allow PM's.
I've got roughly 16 of the mids, that I bought as spares for my Monsoons, and for a possible line source project. I have some of every generation. But, I just double-checked, and I have 1 pair left of the style of panel you'd need, with the 13 aperture openings. I tested them, and the impedance was around 5 Ohms for both. Let me know if you're interested, and we can work out a deal.
As to spare tweeters, look on eBay. There are plenty of Infinity Emit-R tweeters available. They'd work for you too, as the same company made all of the various versions of these tweeters.
Oh yea, I hope cleaning the pots helps with your LRC's!
Good luck,
Stimpy
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All-
Thanks for the quick responses. I tried rotating the L-pad shaft and there's no noticeable change. Unfortunately.
Stimpy-
I changed the settings on my profile, and want those two panels, please. Let me know.
Many thanks.
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If needed, Parts Express has replacement L-pads. I believe Brian sourced parts there. So, PE should have a proper replacement.
http://www.parts-express.com/cat/speaker-l-pads/306 (http://www.parts-express.com/cat/speaker-l-pads/306)
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Thanks again, Stimpy. I don't think the L-pads need replacement. They do function normally, but didn't clear the distortion when rotated fully a few times as suggested. Let's make a deal, sir. What a great resource you folks all are!
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I just sent a PM, concerning the replacement mids.
Thanks!
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Any SuperTower III SRE side rails?
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Anyone have a favorite method of enlarging the basket opening of the "New Larger Sub" to fit most any of the replacement drivers, which all seem to be have a touch larger diameter?
I have been thinking a "Rabbet Router" might be the correct tool for opening the flange enough to accept the touch bigger basket.
Anyone with another idea?? pc
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Anyone have a favorite method of enlarging the basket opening of the "New Larger Sub" to fit most any of the replacement drivers, which all seem to be have a touch larger diameter?
I have been thinking a "Rabbet Router" might be the correct tool for opening the flange enough to accept the touch bigger basket.
Anyone with another idea?? pc
Welcome to AudioCircle!
Use a router circle cutter to make a disk of the same diameter as the rabbet. Wrap it with whole-circumference layers of masking tape to make a snug fit. This will center the circle cutter on the rabbet so you can easily and accurately enlarge it. Or fold pieces of paper to make equal thickness spacers to center the disk in the rabbet.
EDIT, well, this will find the center of the rabbet, but can't use it as a router guide for recutting the hole because router bit will cut through it. You could use the disk to glue a piece of wood to the back of the baffle with a guide hole concentric to the disk. Maybe put another piece of wood to thicken it to support the jig at the center.
Drawing (http://www.hollyday.com/temp/ac/enlargerabbet.pdf)
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Just found I have 2 NOS Spiral Ribbon Tweeters from the widow.
$39 each plus shipping
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I'm not sure if this should go here or not, but it is about VMPS parts? It looks like Creative Sound Solutions are back in business. So, their 10" and 12" passive radiators are available for pre-order. Hopefully, the 15" passive will follow? Maybe a few requests form potential buyers would help facilitate that?
https://www.css-audio.com/passive-radiators (https://www.css-audio.com/passive-radiators)
(https://static.wixstatic.com/media/519b00_2e836c24f7ef466c8835b9a66c3c57ae~mv2_d_4032_3024_s_4_2.jpg/v1/fill/w_498,h_373,al_c,q_90/file.jpg)
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I'm looking for an Aurum Cantus G2si faceplate so that I can put the ribbon tweeters back
to normal rather than de-horned.
Looking for faceplate, but will take a blown one, or one with a good faceplate at a good price.
Thanks, Pete
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I think richidoo is on to it. Cut a disc that'll snuggly fit the hole; then cut another thru hole to fit the larger size that you need.
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Any Spiral Tweeters left? Re: FF3 SRE (3 per side)
Thanks,
Rick
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Greetings,
I direct this to Mr. Cassler. Might there be any Neo Panel drivers left for sale. One of the six in my RM30s is defective. I tried repairing it, but soldering wire to the fragile aluminum traces hasn't proved to be a lasting solution. Thanks, Lee
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Hey Lee,
I have a couple of neopanels that were pulled from a pair of RM40s if you're interested. They are in good shape and work fine. I would call them a 7 or 8 on the Audiogon scale. There is a bit of corrosion on a couple of the terminals. I got them from John Casler a few years ago when VMPS went under.
Bob
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Greetings,
I direct this to Mr. Cassler. Might there be any Neo Panel drivers left for sale. One of the six in my RM30s is defective. I tried repairing it, but soldering wire to the fragile aluminum traces hasn't proved to be a lasting solution. Thanks, Lee
Hi Lee,
I currently have no panels. I used to offer them for Brian's widow, but demand dropped off, and we haven't "modded" any more.
I know some have even purchased old (working) speakers to scavenge the panels for spares.
When I sold them for the widow, they were $189 each, so if a working speaker has a couple working panels the math might work.
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Greetings, Mr. Cassler:
Thanks for taking the time to answer my query. No worries if your inventory is depleted. As you see from a posting at this thread, Bob Stark has a pair of Neo panels, and I am in the process of purchasing them.
As a warning to others, you really don't want to twist off the delicate connectors on the Neo panels, as they are next to impossible to repair. I paid the price in a broken one from multiple removal and re-installation to support my compulsion to tweak.
Best wishes,
Lee
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Looking for a couple 10" woofers for my ff3's. Any out there?
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Hi. I own the fabulously musical VMPS RM-40's. I'm the second owner having owned them for almost 5 years now. Anyway, tonight while playing music at maybe 104 db which I often do, there was some instaneous distortion (nothing sounding too bad or loud) and suddenly my 4 mid-range ribbon drivers in the right channel ceased functioning. Woofers and tweeter seem fine which implies to me something occurred at the crossover and not the drivers but I'm guessing.
I'm pretty much out to lunch here. Might the crossover have one or more fuses? If not, do I need to find NOS crossovers? What if I can't locate an RM-40 crossover? Or might it be all 4 mid-range drivers blew simultaneously?
Any advice is appreciated. Thanks.
-John
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If you're lucky all you did was fry the L-Pad.
To check take a small screwdriver and gently turn it from one side to another.
If it sticks, feels rough, or the sound to the Neos cuts in and out, then you need to replace the L-Pads.
While it could be other things like a burned cap or coil, those are a lot more difficult to track down (unless they visually look burned/which they sometimes do)
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Thanks, John. I have 4 mid-range drivers so it sounds like I'll need to check each of the 4.
1. When you say take a screwdrive and "turn it", I'm not sure what it is having never taken the VMPS apart. Tomorrow night I plan to visually inspect the 4 mid-range drivers there but thus far I've no idea what to expect. I'm fairly mechanically inclined but electronics and speaker challenged. And soldering iron challenged.
2. If it turns out to be L-pads, are replacement L-pads available out there and might this be something I can replace?
3. Is it close to impossible to locate Neopanels these days?
4. Do you happen to know if the mid-range drivers are daisy-chained such that if one blows all cease to function?
5. If a crossover, are there any similar crossovers available if this one can't be rebuilt?
The RM-40's have been fabulous and trouble-free until tonight and I'd hate to consider alternatives.
Very much appreciated, thanks.
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Ouch! I hope you get this sorted out.
L-pads are volume controls for the tweeter and mids. They'd be on the rear of the speakers, near the inputs. Look for small holes with a metal shaft. The shaft is part of the L-pad, and allows you to adjust the volume of the drivers. If the L-pad is OK, you should be able to turn the shaft, and it should turn smoothly. You should also hear the volume of the driver shift too. If not, the L-pad might have failed. It could feel sticky and rough when turned, with no change to the driver volume.
Parts Express sells L-pads. But, you'll need to inspect what's in your 40s, to see what type you need. L-pads come in different impedance's, as well as different wattage ratings. Mono and stereo too. Plus, the L-pad shaft has different lengths, depending on cabinet thickness.
https://www.parts-express.com/Search.aspx?keyword=l-pad&sitesearch=true (https://www.parts-express.com/Search.aspx?keyword=l-pad&sitesearch=true)
So, inspect the L-pads. You'll probably have to pull a woofer to access it and the crossover. Also, test the drivers with a multimeter. You'll want to read their resistance, to see if they match between the 2 speakers. And while the woofer is out, inspect the crossovers. Look for burned components. Caps can fail, and inductors can melt, from high power. Let us know what you find, and we can proceed from there.
Good luck.
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Oh, one more thing. You aren't going to find off-the-shelf crossovers for VMPS speakers. Brian basically hand built the crossovers into each speaker. No premade circuit boards. Only point to point wiring. So, if damaged, you'll have to repair it in the speaker. VMPS crossovers were typically first order, series designs, which makes them fairly simple in layout. Not many parts. But, you'll need a good multimeter and a good capacitance meter to test them.
A component lead needs to be unsoldered, in order to test a part. Otherwise, you'll be testing the whole crossover and not an individual component.
Also, Brian used very good capacitors. You'll need to use good caps too. The same brands, if they can be identified. And if me, if I change a part in one speaker, I'd change that same part, with the same brand and value, in the other speaker. It's best to keep them matched. Use some one like Sonic Craft or Parts Connexion, for replacement capacitors. Both vendors offer tight tolerance parts matching, and will provide matched pairs too.
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Thanks, John. I have 4 mid-range drivers so it sounds like I'll need to check each of the 4.
1. When you say take a screwdrive and "turn it", I'm not sure what it is having never taken the VMPS apart. Tomorrow night I plan to visually inspect the 4 mid-range drivers there but thus far I've no idea what to expect. I'm fairly mechanically inclined but electronics and speaker challenged. And soldering iron challenged.
2. If it turns out to be L-pads, are replacement L-pads available out there and might this be something I can replace?
3. Is it close to impossible to locate Neopanels these days?
4. Do you happen to know if the mid-range drivers are daisy-chained such that if one blows all cease to function?
5. If a crossover, are there any similar crossovers available if this one can't be rebuilt?
The RM-40's have been fabulous and trouble-free until tonight and I'd hate to consider alternatives.
Very much appreciated, thanks.
1) You need not take anything "apart", and until you check the condition of the L-Pads, I wouldn't. As Stimpy described, the L-Pads are the little shafts on the back of the speaker, where you adjust tweeter and Neo levels. BE VERY CAREFUL AND GENTLE WHEN TURNING THEM.
Your description and cause sound like you overheated them and they burned. If so, you are lucky and it is cheap and not too difficult to replace them. If the L=Pad burns it would take out all the panels in that speaker.
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Thank you both very much. I was able to turn the mid-range L-pad with some ease. Gently turning the 3 other L-pads all seemed to have a very evident increase in friction. When turning all 4 L-pads, I could feel the little indentations / notches during the turn. But the L-pad in question did have a fairly significant less amount of friction than the others.
My mid-range L-pads are set at 12 o'clock high (neutral) while the tweeter L-pad is set at about 9:30 o'clock. Just curious if my mid-range L-pads are always set to 12 o'clock high, would by-passing that L-pad change the impedence any and hence potentially generate other problems?
I looked at some L-pads per Stimpy's link but also elsewhere. There doesn't seem to be a lot of L-pad resources. I realize there's more requirements that need to be met but it seems nearly all L-pads are 8ohm. As I recall the RM-40 speakers are 4 ohm. Does that imply all speaker drivers are also 4 ohm including the x-over network? Would an 8 ohm L-pad lead to failure?
FWIW, my Class D amps are 575 wpc@8 ohm and I think 1100 wpc@4 ohm loads. But I'm also using a passive volume attentuator (no active gain state). I mention this because it seems the highest rated L-pads I saw on Parts Express were 100 watts. I'm curious what ratings I need to look for?
Anyway, if the L-pad in question is noticeably easier to turn might that be an indiction of potential failure?
Thanks again for your help,
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Hi Stehno,
Did turning the midrange L-pad restore sound? You didn't say.
Also, not to sound blunt, but we can't guess and tell you what's in your speakers. Speakers have impedance ratings. But, that's a static figure, as resistance varies with frequency. So, having a 4 ohm speaker, doesn't mean you'll have a 4 ohm L-pad. In this instance, you'll have to pull a woofer, and investigate. You need to match what's already there. No choice.
Since L-pads come in different impedances, you need to know if you have a four, eight, or sixteen ohm L-pads in your 40s. Using the incorrect L-pad can shift crossover points. Bypassing the L-pad, can shift crossover points, since that would change resistance.
As to power handling, everything wired to you amp absorbs and dissipates wattage. The speaker wire, all the individual speaker drivers, and all the crossover components, including the L-pads, absorb power. So, no one component sees your 1100 watts. Which is a good thing, because you could have burned out the whole speaker, as a result of the party mode playback session.
One other thing to think about when replacing the failed components, you might be able to bump up to a part with greater power handling, but should you? If the midrange L-pad is what failed, swapping in a higher wattage pot may prevent failure in the future? But, in your case, the L-pad acted as a fuse, and hopefully saved your speakers. A higher wattage L-pad may save the L-pad, but allow the speakers to fry! What would you rather do, spend a few bucks on a new L-pad, or try and source expensive, rare drivers? Your choice? Oh, I'd also fuse the speakers, or buy Cerwin Vegas! Again, your choice. :o :D
Good luck.
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I pretty sure this is the L-pad (#260-265 , 100watt, 1” shaft, 8 ohm ) for RM 40, both L-pads in my 40’s are the same (100watts). But you still want to check what Brian used in your speakers. Good luck Zak
https://www.parts-express.com/speaker-l-pad-attenuator-100w-mono-1-shaft-8-ohm--260-265
The best way to access the L-pads and crossovers is to lay the speaker on it side and remove the base and the passive
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Hi Stehno,
Did turning the midrange L-pad restore sound? You didn't say.
Also, not to sound blunt, but we can't guess and tell you what's in your speakers. Speakers have impedance ratings. But, that's a static figure, as resistance varies with frequency. So, having a 4 ohm speaker, doesn't mean you'll have a 4 ohm L-pad. In this instance, you'll have to pull a woofer, and investigate. You need to match what's already there. No choice.
Since L-pads come in different impedances, you need to know if you have a four, eight, or sixteen ohm L-pads in your 40s. Using the incorrect L-pad can shift crossover points. Bypassing the L-pad, can shift crossover points, since that would change resistance.
As to power handling, everything wired to you amp absorbs and dissipates wattage. The speaker wire, all the individual speaker drivers, and all the crossover components, including the L-pads, absorb power. So, no one component sees your 1100 watts. Which is a good thing, because you could have burned out the whole speaker, as a result of the party mode playback session.
One other thing to think about when replacing the failed components, you might be able to bump up to a part with greater power handling, but should you? If the midrange L-pad is what failed, swapping in a higher wattage pot may prevent failure in the future? But, in your case, the L-pad acted as a fuse, and hopefully saved your speakers. A higher wattage L-pad may save the L-pad, but allow the speakers to fry! What would you rather do, spend a few bucks on a new L-pad, or try and source expensive, rare drivers? Your choice? Oh, I'd also fuse the speakers, or buy Cerwin Vegas! Again, your choice. :o :D
Good luck.
Hey, Skimpy. No. Turning the mid-range L-pad did not change anything. But I will try once more whil by gently turning the L-pad out from the 12 o'clock position to maybe 10:00 o'clock or even 2 o'clock to see if that changes anything.
I did presume that you and others here had VMPS speaker specific knowledge, sorry my bad.
Party mode session? Um, yeah, I suppose I have my guilty pleasure moments playing at 103-105db. It's as important to me as a nice classical or instrumental piece at 87-95db.
Good points on not changing things out and hence potentially changing the weakest component in the link blowing.
Good suggestion on installing a fuse. Bad suggestion on installing a pair of Cerwin Vegas. If I'm able to get things working again, where would be the best place to install, before or after the x-over? And do you know the criteria for installing the appropriate fuse?
BTW, would you still guess that it could be the midrange L-pad?
Much appreciated,
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I pretty sure this is the L-pad (#260-265 , 100watt, 1” shaft, 8 ohm ) for RM 40, both L-pads in my 40’s are the same (100watts). But you still want to check what Brian used in your speakers. Good luck Zak
https://www.parts-express.com/speaker-l-pad-attenuator-100w-mono-1-shaft-8-ohm--260-265
The best way to access the L-pads and crossovers is to lay the speaker on it side and remove the base and the passive radiator.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=200317)
Pictures of RM 40 L-pads and crossover
Left L pad for tweeter ( green and blue wires )
Right L pad for midrange panels (red and red/green stripe wires)
Thanks for the pic and info, Zak. So the base plate (looks like MDF) comes off? I just assumed it was glued. In fact, it all looks like MDF around the bottom so I assumed it was all glued together permanently. Especially since the fully loaded cabinet weighs in at 240 lbs. So it's screwed / bolted together?
Thanks,
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Hey, Skimpy. No. Turning the mid-range L-pad did not change anything. But I will try once more whil by gently turning the L-pad out from the 12 o'clock position to maybe 10:00 o'clock or even 2 o'clock to see if that changes anything.
I was hoping for sound.
I did presume that you and others here had VMPS speaker specific knowledge, sorry my bad.
Unfortunately, Brian didn't publish VMPS documentation. So, it's difficult to know what's inside a particular model without actually owning it. One thing I want to work on. Start a thread, trying to catalog documentation and schematics.
Party mode session? Um, yeah, I suppose I have my guilty pleasure moments playing at 103-105db. It's as important to me as a nice classical or instrumental piece at 87-95db.
I was being intentionally rude. Sorry about that, but I didn't want you to (further) damage your speakers.
Good points on not changing things out and hence potentially changing the weakest component in the link blowing.
As above. Caution with the volume control.
Good suggestion on installing a fuse. Bad suggestion on installing a pair of Cerwin Vegas. If I'm able to get things working again, where would be the best place to install, before or after the x-over? And do you know the criteria for installing the appropriate fuse?
Fuse wiring diagram, from my Acoustic Research manual. No reason this won't work for your 40s.
http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/library/acoustic_research/ar-9_series_1978-1981/ar-9_series_manuals/ar-9_manual/ar-9_manual_pg25.html (http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/library/acoustic_research/ar-9_series_1978-1981/ar-9_series_manuals/ar-9_manual/ar-9_manual_pg25.html)
BTW, would you still guess that it could be the midrange L-pad?
That's just a guess. But, I'd think it's most likely, due to all 4 panels failing at once. I'd look at the L-pad first, and the midrange crossover capacitor second.
Much appreciated,
You are most welcome!
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Hello Stehno, This is want I would do. I taken a large bedroom pillow placed on the floor, two feet from the bottom of the speaker , I then grab the top of speaker and tilt it down. Now the speaker is on a tilt we’re the base is off the ground. There are a bunch of holes in the base, but the 4 large holes hold the base , 4 long wood screws, unscrew them. That removes the base. Now unscrew the 8 screws on the passive radiator. You may have to pry the passive from the cabinet gently. Good luck ZaK
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IT WORKS!!!!! So it seems the L-pad is fried at the usual 12 o'clock high mark but not eslewhere. Had to move it back to about 10:30 before the midrange works again.
Thank you all. Your advice and time is much appreciated. Tweeters have already been dialed down to about 9:30 for some time and by adding a another few decibels at the volume attentuator, I'm back in business.
Obviously the L-pads should be replaced. Then again, I can easliy live with them in their current 10:30 positions because if I do replace them, if they are not identical to the originals I just might be opening up another can of worms or expose the next weak link as Stimpy was saying.
Zak, you on the other kinda' teed me off. :D I'm big on vibration mgmt, even though Brian Cheney of VMPS wasn't, and I'm confident that with properly anchoring the speakers into the subflooring I should be able to extract some very evident performance gains. In fact, I recently purchased 4 steel plates that I could awkwardly fasten to what I thought was a glued on base plate and then I could mount my specially designed cones/points to the the steel base plate. Because of their shapes, none of the steel plates purchased will replace the standard base plates to fasten to the bottom of the RM-40's
But with your pics and description, I can now see that just purchasing some 1/2" or 3/4" steel base plates to perhaps identical in size to the current MDF base plates I can do exactly what I hoped to accomplish and keep them looking nice and tidy too.
BTW, Zak. Nice choice of woodgrain on your cabinets. Can you tell me approximately how long the 4 long base plate screws are? Philips, flathead, or socket head? Because the RM-40's weigh 240 lbs. each they simply are a bit much for me to easily handle moving, tipping, etc. My prior speakers all weighed 180 lbs. or less and at least those were manageable whereas the RM-40 are not. Hence, I never tilt them just out of curiosity cuz I might die.
Anyway, thank you guys, especially for taking the time to spell things out a bit since I'm very electronics challenged. It's really very much appreciated.
DRINKS ON ME !!!!!
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I was hoping for sound.
Unfortunately, Brian didn't publish VMPS documentation. So, it's difficult to know what's inside a particular model without actually owning it. One thing I want to work on. Start a thread, trying to catalog documentation and schematics.
I was being intentionally rude. Sorry about that, but I didn't want you to (further) damage your speakers.
As above. Caution with the volume control.
Fuse wiring diagram, from my Acoustic Research manual. No reason this won't work for your 40s.
http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/library/acoustic_research/ar-9_series_1978-1981/ar-9_series_manuals/ar-9_manual/ar-9_manual_pg25.html (http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/library/acoustic_research/ar-9_series_1978-1981/ar-9_series_manuals/ar-9_manual/ar-9_manual_pg25.html)
That's just a guess. But, I'd think it's most likely, due to all 4 panels failing at once. I'd look at the L-pad first, and the midrange crossover capacitor second.
You are most welcome!
BTW, Stimpy, thanks for the fuse diagram, just a simple in-line fuse. Considering the potential complexities of each and every reasonable speaker, this seems like it should be mandatory for every thoughtfully designed speaker.
Thanks again.
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Stehno, Really glad there working.
There really not that difficult to tilt down on there side, and they out weight me by 65lbs. I think bases are actually two pieces, but you have to remove the 4 large Phillip screws (approx. 4”) first. That removes the base from speaker. Then you can remove 8 screws (1.5 -2 “) that hold the bottom to the side of the base. Good luck Zak
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Stehno, Really glad there working.
There really not that difficult to tilt down on there side, and they out weight me by 65lbs. I think bases are actually two pieces, but you have to remove the 4 large Phillip screws (approx. 4”) first. That removes the base from speaker. Then you can remove 8 screws (1.5 -2 “) that hold the bottom to the side of the base. Good luck Zak
They only outweigh me by 15 lbs. but still it's a risk mgmt thing. I remember the seller and I carrying them up the stairs into my listening room. That extra 60 lbs. or so from my older speakers makes a big difference for some reason.
The base plate is MDF, isn't it? It would be so nice and easy to now replace with a simple steel base plate so I fasten in my points.
Thx,
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Stenho,
Glad to hear it was the L-Pad as I thought. I have seen this quite often, and learned the lesson 1st hand myself with my first pair of RM-40.
"1812 Overture Cannons" at high volume was the issue with mine.
The L-Pad being a resistance device heats up, and if sustained High Power is applied they will burn.
Sometimes they can even burn the cabinet.
In any event, I would change them out on BOTH speakers, as the burned windings will reduce sound quality.
Brian bought them from Parts Express often, and they are very inexpensive. Best plan is to see if you can get the part number from yours, and take a picture on your phone to sent to Parts Express.
Remember, they have been "hot glued" into position, so be VERY CAREFUL to slowly pry them lose. Take your time, or you may damage the cabinet. When you Glue the new L-PAD in place, take GREAT CARE to position it so that 12:00 is at the top.
Also be very careful to mark the wires and what each was soldered to. Again, a phone photo can be helpful.
Also as a resistance device, the more "wide open" you run them, the lower the resistance and heat created. I always ran mine hot (like 1:00 or 2:00) Brian generally ran lower than that, but seldom blasted.
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Hey John S.,
We had a couple long talks 4-5 years ago. I still have my pair of RM40 BCSE with the MLS cabinets. My bottom plate of the speakers had the 3" side MDF supports glued into it. There was no removing the bottom plate on mine. Just thought you should know as it could also be true of yours.
Good luck,
Bob
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Stenho,
Glad to hear it was the L-Pad as I thought. I have seen this quite often, and learned the lesson 1st hand myself with my first pair of RM-40.
"1812 Overture Cannons" at high volume was the issue with mine.
The L-Pad being a resistance device heats up, and if sustained High Power is applied they will burn.
Sometimes they can even burn the cabinet.
In any event, I would change them out on BOTH speakers, as the burned windings will reduce sound quality.
Brian bought them from Parts Express often, and they are very inexpensive. Best plan is to see if you can get the part number from yours, and take a picture on your phone to sent to Parts Express.
Remember, they have been "hot glued" into position, so be VERY CAREFUL to slowly pry them lose. Take your time, or you may damage the cabinet. When you Glue the new L-PAD in place, take GREAT CARE to position it so that 12:00 is at the top.
Also be very careful to mark the wires and what each was soldered to. Again, a phone photo can be helpful.
Also as a resistance device, the more "wide open" you run them, the lower the resistance and heat created. I always ran mine hot (like 1:00 or 2:00) Brian generally ran lower than that, but seldom blasted.
Thanks for the notes, John. As soon as I read your note I changed the midrange L-pads from 10:30 to 1:00 o'clock and the trebles from 9:30 to 11.
I hate being on borrowed time but the RM-40's really are quite a musical speaker.
All your points are duly noted and I will move forward toward a sufficient replacement for the midrange L-pads. Thanks for taking your time with me.
Warm regards,
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Hey John S.,
We had a couple long talks 4-5 years ago. I still have my pair of RM40 BCSE with the MLS cabinets. My bottom plate of the speakers had the 3" side MDF supports glued into it. There was no removing the bottom plate on mine. Just thought you should know as it could also be true of yours.
Good luck,
Bob
Hi, Bob. Hope you're doing well. Thanks for the note on the base plates and I'll have to check out how mine are fastened.
Much appreciated.
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Thanks for the notes, John. As soon as I read your note I changed the midrange L-pads from 10:30 to 1:00 o'clock and the trebles from 9:30 to 11.
I hate being on borrowed time but the RM-40's really are quite a musical speaker.
All your points are duly noted and I will move forward toward a sufficient replacement for the midrange L-pads. Thanks for taking your time with me.
Warm regards,
BTW, I forgot to mention. Besides the questionable L-pad having seemingly less friction while turning than the others, the second night when I turned it gently left and right to full extents and then settled at 10:30 for testing there was indeed a little catch or snag during a turn and then almost as quickly the catch or snag released. Not a major catch or snag. Just a minor one as I was doing my best to be gentle.
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Stehno, Really glad there working.
There really not that difficult to tilt down on there side, and they out weight me by 65lbs. I think bases are actually two pieces, but you have to remove the 4 large Phillip screws (approx. 4”) first. That removes the base from speaker. Then you can remove 8 screws (1.5 -2 “) that hold the bottom to the side of the base. Good luck Zak
I tilted one speaker and had my wife felt for drilled holes on the underside of the base plate along and beneath one of the vertical supports and she counted 3 holes. That doesn't necessarily imply the base plates are screwed in (could still be glued) but it does imply hope. That's a good thing. So I'll have to get a better look.
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Stenho,
Glad to hear it was the L-Pad as I thought. I have seen this quite often, and learned the lesson 1st hand myself with my first pair of RM-40.
"1812 Overture Cannons" at high volume was the issue with mine.
The L-Pad being a resistance device heats up, and if sustained High Power is applied they will burn.
Sometimes they can even burn the cabinet.
In any event, I would change them out on BOTH speakers, as the burned windings will reduce sound quality.
Brian bought them from Parts Express often, and they are very inexpensive. Best plan is to see if you can get the part number from yours, and take a picture on your phone to sent to Parts Express.
Remember, they have been "hot glued" into position, so be VERY CAREFUL to slowly pry them lose. Take your time, or you may damage the cabinet. When you Glue the new L-PAD in place, take GREAT CARE to position it so that 12:00 is at the top.
Also be very careful to mark the wires and what each was soldered to. Again, a phone photo can be helpful.
Also as a resistance device, the more "wide open" you run them, the lower the resistance and heat created. I always ran mine hot (like 1:00 or 2:00) Brian generally ran lower than that, but seldom blasted.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=200486)
John, while I have your attention, I'd like to ask a few unrelated questions if I may based on the label above.
1. At the very top of the label it looks like Brian is listing the RM-40 model as 8 ohm whereas I always thought these were 4 ohm. Can you confirm?
2. I used to bi-wire these speakers but no longer. My speaker cable runs are routed from the amp to the lower terminals (mid/treble) and the jumpers carry the signal to the upper (bass) terminals. From a sonics or overall best musicality potential would you consider this the proper config?
Thanks,
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I just joined this group recently as a result of acquiring a set of non working ST IIIs. After a tear down I have a 15 inch white woofer that has an open voice coil and a 12 inch woofer with an open voice coil. Anyone have any of these available for sale as I need them? Thanks in advance.
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John, while I have your attention, I'd like to ask a few unrelated questions if I may based on the label above.
1. At the very top of the label it looks like Brian is listing the RM-40 model as 8 ohm whereas I always thought these were 4 ohm. Can you confirm?
2. I used to bi-wire these speakers but no longer. My speaker cable runs are routed from the amp to the lower terminals (mid/treble) and the jumpers carry the signal to the upper (bass) terminals. From a sonics or overall best musicality potential would you consider this the proper config?
Thanks,
It says 4 ohms nominal, 3.6 ohms minimal for the RM-40 if you look closely. It is the RM1 and 626R that are 8 ohms.
That connection pattern is fine.
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Hope everybody had a very pleasant Christmas.
Thanks, John. Much appreciated. The RM-40's are sounding as good as ever thanks to you guys who've been most helpful.
Somebody had informed me that once part of an L-pad fries, it's only a matter of time before it completely fails. Don't know if there's any truth to that but just in case I've dialed down my guilty pleasure listening a few db.
BTW, can anyone confirm for me the exact thread and length of the 4 phillips head screws that fasten the base plate to the vertical columns? Might they be 1/4"-20 or 3/8"-16?
Exact length would be very good to know as well.
Thank you.
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I have a 30+ year old pair of VMPS Large subs that I finally got out of storage only to find the down-firing 15" passive radiators were rotted out. The front mounted active drivers are fine but the speakers only go down to about 30hz in their present condition - certainly not the room shaking like they used to. Does anyone know where I can find a pair of passive radiators? I'm assuming to replace them I have to remove the 15" active speaker and will the passive fit through the hole?
Or should I just upgrade to a pair of JBL 18" per side?
BTW new member here. I've been into audio/stereo equipment for over 50 years and love to build speakers. My current system was started 40 years ago and consists of SAE, 4 Onkyo power amps, lots of processors, and 306 knobs, switches, buttons, and sliders.
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The passive is easily removed from the bottom. As far as fixing
1. Re-foam the current 15” passive radiators
2. Purchase new 15” passive radiator from Part Express
https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-rss390-pr-15-aluminum-cone-passive-radiator--295-504
Good luck
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Thanks Js. I don't see how I can fit the new 15" passive radiator thru the bottom slot as its 4.75" tall and the slot is around 3". Does the bottom of the enclosure come off?
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Thanks Js. I don't see how I can fit the new 15" passive radiator thru the bottom slot as its 4.75" tall and the slot is around 3". Does the bottom of the enclosure come off?
Maybe a picture of your subwoofer is in order to assist? This is a picture of the Larger Subwoofer's from VMPS legacy site: http://pointillistic.com/vmps-audio/subwoofers.htm and what mine looks like. (https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=217450)
Maybe you have a tallboy Sub? Which looks like this: https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=122314.msg1832169#msg1832169 If so, the base should come out by removing screws to access the passive speaker.
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tj309 , so you have the older tallboy ( larger ) there should be 4 screws to remove the base, so you can access the passive. I have the smaller version, and mine is screwed together.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=217463)
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yes that is the one I have (in the above pic). I've never seen the bottom of them but will tonight. Thanks!
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Since I need to replace the passive radiators maybe I should replace the 30+ year old active drivers too. I'm partial to JBL professional series and a 2206H 12" and a 2226H 15" would be ideal.
I'm itching for a pair of double 18" JBL 2241's or 2242's per side but the rated low frequency response is 30hz/25hz respectively. The VMPS's go down to 17hz. I'm not sure I can still hear that low but I can certainly feel it!
Thoughts? And thanks
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The bottom easily came off with the removal of 8 fairly hefty screws. Easy replacement thanks to the link a couple of posts above. Thanks!
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I got a pair of 15" passive radiators from Parts Express and to get them in I had to cut a bit only to find that they don't fit the hole. I need to enlarge the hole by about 1/8" all around. That is going to be very difficult even for an accomplished woodworker such as myself as one cannot get power tools into the box to do the surgery. It may have to be a total sanding job with a drum sander on my drill ... what a pain!
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Did you try "surface" mounting?
The CSS PR could be surface mounted and the basket fit the hole fine.
But instead of the woofer rim fitting inside the set down it simply sat on the baffle and we used a good gasket or liquid gasket to seal.
Just an idea, since it is not visible and the small off-set does not affect the sound.
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I can confirm John's surface mount idea. That is just what I did when changing the passive radiator on my old Super Tower IIIs about 15 years ago. Originally I had an accomplished woodworker take a look at at. He told me he thought he could do it, and would get back to me. Despite reminders I never saw him again. As John said, applying good gasket will provide a sufficient seal. No worry - you'll be fine.
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Just use clear silicone. It cleans off easily if you need to change anything and will fill all holes and gaps. I started using it with my Speakerlab kits (remember them? Based in Seattle), and continued with it for my kit Super Towers and even the LRC I just got.