Scott Nixon's TubeDac+ vs Ack! Industries dAck!

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tmij

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Scott Nixon's TubeDac+ vs Ack! Industries dAck!
« on: 19 Oct 2003, 12:14 am »
FIGHT FANS HERE WE ARE!!! 10 rounds of music for the undisputed NON-OS heavyweight championship of the world!



In the blue corner, weighing almost 4 pounds (including power supply), from High Point, North Carolina... wearing a Yugo 6DJ8 with black faceplate and brushed metal trim... ladies and gentlemen, please give a big hand for Scott Nixon's TubeDac+!!!

In the red corner, from Evanston, Illinois, weighing almost 5 pounds (including charger), sporting brushed aluminum faceplate and lead acid batteries, damas y caballeros, please welcome the  Ack! Industries dAck!!!

Pre-fight Matchup

The dAck! had been generating a lot of buzz on the forums. I bought one last week and brought it to our NYC meet (see that thread for some impressions from fellow ACers).

Not to be outdone, my cousin Manuel ordered the TubeDac+ and lent it to me for the weekend (he's away on a trip). I hesitated posting about this shootout but thanks to my buddy Carlos (from headfi and, originally, MWR),  I figured what the heck, at the very least, I can describe a method of testing that might be useful for comparisons like this.

But first, take a look at this staredown!--



Judging

I wanted to eliminate the guesswork when switching from one component to another, especially when the differences are subtle. Taking a close look at my amp, I thought up a procedure that makes it easier to detect these differences, cueing me on what to listen for. The amp is an Aronov LS-960I with separate input selectors for the left and right channels and independent volume controls.



As a reference, the past two days, I've compared the dAck! to my CD player's analog output. This "split channel" method (shown below) allows me to listen to the same channel running through different DACs (the CD's internal DAC and the dAck!) played on both speakers at the same time--



The idea is to be able to select CD and AUX as inputs for the left and right speakers both playing, say, the right channel at the same time (remember, one input was inverted). Then I could toggle both selectors to listen to the left channel through both speakers (eliminating the speaker and channel as variables). Of course, the volume needs to be attenuated to compensate for the differences in output levels.

Once I've established "what to listen for", I might play the song again with both selectors set to CD, then once more, set to AUX. The CD player I use is a pro-audio Sony CDR-W33.

In comparing both DACs, I used a Y on the digital out. Since my analog ICs are low-grade and el-cheapo respectively, I also used one half of each pair through each DAC (eliminating the cable variable). Check out the connections to the dAck--



And the Y on the CDP, and the connections on the TubeDac+ --



Note the "inversion" on the amp's inputs--



Finally, I calibrated both speakers using warble tones on Stereophile Test CD 1, getting a handle on the differences between both speaker's response curves, the minute adjustments in both volume controls, etc etc. then threw it all out the window by using my ears to "balance out" whatever needed balancing--



Okay, I know you're getting impatient, but first a disclaimer. These are my opinions only, blah blah, and the music chosen is representative of what I might listen to any day, so please excuse my bias.

Both fighters are ready, let's ring the bell! --



Round 1. Carmen Lundy/Self Portrait/Spring Can Really Hang You Up The Most/XRCD/Jazz Vocals.

Doing split-channel testing, the TubeDac+ had the midband more forward, the vocals more sibilant; it also had that "sparkle" on the top end. In comparison the dAck! sounded laid back. Soundstage was a little wider on the edges with the TubeDac+ whereas the dAck! had more blackness around the instruments and arguably better imaging.

Additional info: In comparing the dAck! and the CD analog's output two days ago, I noticed the last hint of grain in Carmen's voice was gone, but the bass appeared rolled off, something the NYACers noticed during last Saturday's meet.

Both TubeDac+ and dAck! sounded very smooth, with the edge going to the TubeDac+, but I came away prefering the dAck! on this track because it had less sibilance.

Round 2 Oscar Casto-Neves/Tropical Heart/Holding With An Open Hand/XRCD/Instrumental Jazz-Bossa Nova guitar.

TubeDac+ sounded more forward, pronounced upper mids. dAck! was quiter, percussion sounded more natural. Preferred the dAck! on this track.

Round 3 Rosa Passos & Ron Carter/Entre Amigos/Insensatez/Chesky/Brazilian Jazz Vocals

TubeDac+ brought Rosa a step forward, a bit more aggressive. dAck! edges out slightly for my taste.

Round 4 Pee Wee Russell & Coleman Hawkins/Jazz Reunion/If I Could Be With You (One Hour Tonight)/Candid/Mainstream Jazz

If there's one CD that made me consider buying the dAck! it's this CD. I have this on vinyl and, in comparison, the CD pressing is terrible, I can't stand listening to it (Emmett Berry's trumpet sounds so glaring on my regular CD analog output). With the dAck! this CD becomes enjoyable, overall tonal balance becomes natural. Disclaimer: this is one of my all time Jazz favorites, so my bias is very heavy here.

Played a few seconds on the TubeDac+ and the disc was ejected. Couldn't stand it. (A knockdown!?)

To editorialize a bit further, I bought the dAck! hoping that some old badly pressed/mastered CDs would be listenable. After listening to the Pee Wee Russell CD, I looked through my stack of "unlistenables" and pulled out--

Round 5 The Brecker Bros/Collection Vol 2/Rocks/Novus/Jazz Funk-Fusion

I cranked up the volume on this one, 90+ dB, initially listening to the TubeDac+. Wow! Now we're talking... the TubeDac+ made this sound so pratty, I jumped out of my chair and started doing the funky chicken dance. The horns really came together and is an example where the TubeDac's aggressiveness worked very well. After the track I shouted "THAT was fun!!!"

In comparison, the dAck! sounded cleaner but a bit anemic. For the TubeDac+ I thought, "now I know what to feed ya!". TubeDac+ by a wide margin.

Round 6 Carlinhos Brown/AlfaGamaBetiZado/A Namorada/EMI/Brazilian Fusion

Another fun cut, first heard this song on the movie Speed (2?) the scene where there's this band playing on the cruise ship. The TubeDac+ did so well on this one, although the dAck! was cleaner, the keyboards and horns sounded recessed and less prat overall. Much dancing with the TubeDac+!

Round 7 Pat Martino/Consciousness/Along Came Betty/32 Jazz/Instrumental Jazz-Bebop Guitar

Okay, I settled down a bit, pulled out another "unlistenable". This time I preferred the dAck! the TubeDac+ made the cymbals a bit more forward than I liked. One of my favorite jazz guitar cuts.

Round 8 Ken Iishi/Echo Exit/Original/R&S/Techno

TubeDac+ revealed better bass extension. Otherwise, very similar. I prefer listening to this on my pro-audio SS rig which is better suited for it.

Round 9 Mark O'Connor's Hot Swing Trio/In Full Swing/Stephane and Django/Odyssey/Jazz Swing

The dAck! sounded quiter, Frank Vignola's solo sounded better articulated whereas the TubeDac+ put him more forward with the notes somewhat smeared. Still, I prefer the TubeDac+ in this track because the overall presentation had more "air" around the instruments which added more body to the sound of O'Connor's violin.

Round 10 Michel Camilo/Triangulo/Piece of Cake/Telarc/Instrumental Jazz-Piano

My favorite album from my favorite pianist. Here the dAck! sounded laid back and refined whereas the TubeDac+ was more alive and dynamic. TubeDac+ really finished heavy on this one!

Post-fight Analysis

The dAck! did very well on the early rounds, when I played tracks that I usually use as reference when auditioning components. TubeDac+ recovered in the latter rounds and I got a sense for its kind of music. TubeDac+ was definitely the more aggresive slugger whereas the dAck! was the more clinical, restrained boxer.

Okay enough of the boxing metaphor. Either way, I believe the personalities of both DACs are different enough to match to specific tastes and systems. Personally, I think I'll stay with the dAck! and upgrade to the newer version when it becomes available.

Thanks for reading!


Carlman

Scott Nixon's TubeDac+ vs Ack! Industries dAck!
« Reply #1 on: 19 Oct 2003, 12:27 am »
What a great review!!!  You clearly spent some time and effort on this... and gave a fair estimation.  It's nice to read a review with well done photos, a scientific process, and creativity to boot.  I'm not so sure how the funky chicken dancing rates... but, I would classify it as an emotional response... which is very desirable.

Thanks!

Mad DOg

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Scott Nixon's TubeDac+ vs Ack! Industries dAck!
« Reply #2 on: 19 Oct 2003, 12:56 am »
this was a fun review to read...thanks for taking the time and effort to write this up! :)

vpolineni

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Scott Nixon's TubeDac+ vs Ack! Industries dAck!
« Reply #3 on: 19 Oct 2003, 01:41 am »
Thanks tmij-that was one hell of a review!  Do you have any more information on the new version of the dack or when it will be available?

mgalusha

Scott Nixon's TubeDac+ vs Ack! Industries dAck!
« Reply #4 on: 19 Oct 2003, 03:12 am »
Very nicely done tmij! It's great to read a review without all the seriousness (which I am guilty of..).  While I'm not familiar with a lot of your music, I do have a couple of them. I've used the Mark O'Conner disc you used in round 9 for doing a cable shootout one day. Great music and a great recording.

Thanks for the effort and great pics as well.

Mike G.

lonewolfny42

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Scott Nixon's TubeDac+ vs Ack! Industries dAck!
« Reply #5 on: 19 Oct 2003, 03:24 am »
EXCELLENT !!! Thanks for taking the time to write up your impressions - Great pictures !!!!! Will there be anything on the undercard (for the future). :D

Hantra

Scott Nixon's TubeDac+ vs Ack! Industries dAck!
« Reply #6 on: 19 Oct 2003, 03:41 am »
What a sweet review!  Very well written.  Thanks for sharing your impressions.  

I'll add just a bit. . .  I have heard the TubeDAC, and the TubeDAC Plus in my system back to back.  I prefer the TubeDAC.  The Plus version adds some things that are designed to do the things you heard.  It's designed to have a bit more edge, and a bit more push on the highs.  It works very well with laid back speakers, but for neutral speakers, the non-Plus wins out.  

I think the Plus version is pretty much the way to go for people who are used to mainstream oversampling digital b/c it puts a bit of that fake digital "sparkle" back in, and it's not such a BIG change to go to that from another player.  You can even see this on the scope.  Going from a player that has the digital oversampling nasties to the TubeDAC, some might think it's rolled off.  And for them, they might need the Plus.  for me, I think the TubeDAC sounds more like real music than anything I have heard short of the $6,500 AN DAC 3.1x Balanced.  

Anyhow, great review.  I just wanted to point out some differences in the Plus, and non-Plus versions. . .

L8r,

B

Daniel

Scott Nixon's TubeDac+ vs Ack! Industries dAck!
« Reply #7 on: 19 Oct 2003, 03:50 am »
Man that was fun to read!  Thank you!

Paul L

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Scott Nixon's TubeDac+ vs Ack! Industries dAck!
« Reply #8 on: 19 Oct 2003, 04:29 am »
Thanks for the great review.  You must have put a lot of thought on this review.  However, I think it is more focus on technical listening rather than performing art listening.  Say which DAC excel in PRAT and which DAC is more transparent and musical and draw you to the music.  Which DAC is more disappearing and bring the musician into your listening room.

Sorry for all the whinning but I think it is still a great review on the "personality" side of the DAC.

Thanks.

MaxCast

Scott Nixon's TubeDac+ vs Ack! Industries dAck!
« Reply #9 on: 19 Oct 2003, 12:29 pm »
Very entertaining review.  Great work.
I'm not sure if I follow the phase inversion tho, don't you have to switch +/-'s not r/l?

mcrespo71

Scott Nixon's TubeDac+ vs Ack! Industries dAck!
« Reply #10 on: 19 Oct 2003, 05:05 pm »
Tito, nice review!  I liked what little I heard of the dACK at the last NYC circle meeting and I'm betting it would help the sound of my naturally "bright" room.  It's very similar to yours- lots of NYC luxury building parquet floors.  This room has been extremely hard for me to tame.  This was the most entertaining review I have read on audiocircle.

Michael

tmij

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Scott Nixon's TubeDac+ vs Ack! Industries dAck!
« Reply #11 on: 19 Oct 2003, 06:50 pm »
Thanks to all for the kind words! :)

*edited*

Quote from: lonewolfny42
Will there be anything on the undercard (for the future). :D


With the next version of the dAck? Dunno yet :)

Quote from: Hantra
The Plus version adds some things that are designed to do the things you heard.  It's designed to have a bit more edge, and a bit more push on the highs.  It works very well with laid back speakers, but for neutral speakers, the non-Plus wins out.


Thanks for the additional info, with these characteristics choosing between the dAck! and the "non-plus" TubeDac would be much more difficult. Maybe have both? Uh... LOL.

Quote from: Paul L
However, I think it is more focus on technical listening rather than performing art listening. Say which DAC excel in PRAT and which DAC is more transparent and musical and draw you to the music.  Which DAC is more disappearing and bring the musician into your listening room.


I understand what you mean, Paul, a very valid point! I believe non-audiophiles listen that way (i.e. to the "whole" rather than the sum of its parts), beginning audiophiles (like myself) tend to "deconstruct", whereas more experienced and mature audiophiles learn to listen to the whole as well as the parts. Kinda like this saying... but then I'm far from having achieved audiophile zen :)

Quote from: MaxCast
I'm not sure if I follow the phase inversion tho, don't you have to switch +/-'s not r/l?


I inverted channels (instead of phase) on one input so that I could play the same channel from the source through both speakers at the same time. Listening in mono, theoretically, the sound should come from one spot in the center.

Quote from: mcrespo71
Tito, nice review!  I liked what little I heard of the dACK at the last NYC circle meeting and I'm betting it would help the sound of my naturally "bright" room.  It's very similar to yours- lots of NYC luxury building parquet floors.  This room has been extremely hard for me to tame.  This was the most entertaining review I have read on audiocircle.


Thanks Mike, I'll bring the dAck to our next get together and can probably borrow the TubeDac+ for that session. Looking forward to hearing your MM de Capos!

nathanm

Scott Nixon's TubeDac+ vs Ack! Industries dAck!
« Reply #12 on: 19 Oct 2003, 07:32 pm »
THAT'S the kind of review I'd like to see in the big print magazines; with PICTURES.  It really adds a lot.  Excellent work tmij!

I tried the dAck! demo myself (what can I say, the case was irresistable) and here's my review:  It seemed to smooth out the sound and had a little less treble than I liked, so I didn't keep it.  Although the difference was small on my system I felt the way it is described in the manual and how its processing differs from other units seemed accurate.


Now, I'm waiting for the comments about the connection arrangement totally invalidating the review.   He used switches and different cables, shouldn't he be villified?  Come on guys, be fair!  Anyone?  Anyone? (kidding)

vpolineni

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Scott Nixon's TubeDac+ vs Ack! Industries dAck!
« Reply #13 on: 19 Oct 2003, 07:56 pm »
ignore this.. can't delete it for some reason.

vpolineni

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Scott Nixon's TubeDac+ vs Ack! Industries dAck!
« Reply #14 on: 19 Oct 2003, 07:57 pm »
edited as requested by sa-dono

tmij

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Scott Nixon's TubeDac+ vs Ack! Industries dAck!
« Reply #15 on: 19 Oct 2003, 08:36 pm »
I'm flattered, nathanm, thanks! :)

Quote from: vpolineni
Where exactly is the manufacturer's bulletin?


*edited*

viggen

Scott Nixon's TubeDac+ vs Ack! Industries dAck!
« Reply #16 on: 19 Oct 2003, 08:56 pm »
Great review.  I've been curious to how the Ack! and Nixon differed.  I got the dackit which sounds great and still improving after 4 months of use.  Now, I wonder how the dackit differ from the tubedac+...

Hantra

Scott Nixon's TubeDac+ vs Ack! Industries dAck!
« Reply #17 on: 19 Oct 2003, 08:59 pm »
Quote
Now, I wonder how the dackit differ from the tubedac+...



Viggen:

You don't have to wonder man. . . Just go back and read my first response to this thread. . .

B

Danny Richie

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dAck
« Reply #18 on: 20 Oct 2003, 12:28 am »
Quote
It seemed to smooth out the sound and had a little less treble than I liked, so I didn't keep it.


I wasn't real happy with the softened highs at first either or the rolled off lows.

When a substituted in the larger 3.0 uF Sonicaps with the .01 uF Sonicap by-pass all changed.

It still had everything I liked about it plus extended lows and more detailed less roll off highs.

Nice written review tmij.

If you would like to try the Sonicap combo that I used let me know. I'd be willing to send them to you to try so long as you report what you think. If you like the Sonicaps you can keep them and pay for them and if not then you can send them back.

Swapping them in is easy and takes nothing but a little soldering.

I had to keep my dAck too. It was too good not to have.

Sa-dono

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Scott Nixon's TubeDac+ vs Ack! Industries dAck!
« Reply #19 on: 20 Oct 2003, 01:26 am »
Quote from: tmij
From the manufacturer's bulletin....


Please respect the request made by Chris and delete this portion. "We...would appreciate that you not share this information with the general public until the website has been updated."