Wants and Needs: HT2-TL vs SongBirds

floresjc · « **Reply #20 on:** 7 Jan 2011, 04:31 pm »

I would also recommend Audiogon. I've done my fair share of "garage saling" on there and you can really get some bargains. Before FedEx destroyed them, I picked up a great pair of HT3's at a discount. I bought my Parasound pre-amp open box at discount. I picked up an AVA Ultra 550 for $1000 and it still has a year warranty and came with a few sets of expensive tubes the owner didn't need anymore. Its normally a $2300 amp. I picked up my home theater processor for like $200. I found my 2nd Insight DAC for $400 when people start dumping them for the newest AVA upgrade.

If you watch carefully, you can find some really good deals on there, and most guys are really great to deal with. Its very possible to put together a very high end system for a reasonable price.

Nuance · « **Reply #21 on:** 7 Jan 2011, 07:09 pm »

Quote from: DMurphy on 6 Jan 2011, 03:50 pm

Yes--by something like 5 dB. I agree that the ST's, perhaps with the RAAL, would seem like a perfect compromise. Remember--there will be a sub in line.

My sentiments exactly. My ST's with the LCY ribbon (I'll get that RAAL pair one day

) sound fantastic crossed over to my subs. However, the HT2-TL's are clearly better, so if you're the type that will always wonder "what if," just go for gusto and get the HT2-TL's. Nothing touches them in their price range IMO.

Quote from: DMurphy on 6 Jan 2011, 10:01 pm

I suspected that. The newer ones sound much more like the SongBirds because of a little smoother output in the 1k-2k region thanks to the ER15.

Doh! Stop giving me reasons to order a "newly refreshed pair."

Quote from: nyc_paramedic on 7 Jan 2011, 03:18 am

Lastly, it is my opinion that if one spends buckets of hard earned monies on excellent speakers and gear and neglects room treatment and placement then one will still be an "audiophile" but he will never enjoy music. Especially if you have a smaller room, you need to look at effective bass traps of the like of GIK Acoustics or Real traps. Or, if you're handy, build your own traps. Traps are not sexy, like wires or tubes, but treating your room should be of the utmost priority to get the most out of your loud speakers. The Salks will reward you with a literal jaw-dropping in a properly treated room. I would rather have the Songs in a treated room that the TL2's in an untreated room, if you get my drift.

Please take a look at the the RealTraps website for some very informative information. Link: http://www.realtraps.com/index.htm

I have TL2's in New York City. If your near the tri-state area, PM me.

Sincerely,

Nick

You are a very wise man sir. A BIG +1 from me!

Willie,

You've been given a lot of great advice. I hope you find exactly what you're looking for. Best wishes to you and your search.

Willie Gee · « **Reply #22 on:** 9 Jan 2011, 05:35 am »

You guys are fantastic. Thank you all for the insight and advice. I'm going to listen to HT2-TLs, and I believe this is the way I am going to go. It's going to take some time to save the money, but I believe it will be money well spent.

floresjc · « **Reply #23 on:** 9 Jan 2011, 05:51 am »

FWIW, I had a guy come listen today my SongTowers and HT2-TL's today (with his father as well), and both were blown away with both speakers. They definitely liked the HT2-TL's better, it was kind of their idea of "ultimate" as well giving the price ranges they would be willing to put out. In the end, we spent about an hour talking about the differences between the two, and I could tell the kid was really torn between getting SongTowers now, and saving a bit and getting the big fish because his budget was in the low $3k range. In the end, I think he goes HT2-TL, because it would remove any trace of "maybe" he would have later.

DMurphy · « **Reply #24 on:** 9 Jan 2011, 06:07 am »

Quote from: floresjc on 9 Jan 2011, 05:51 am

FWIW, I had a guy come listen today my SongTowers and HT2-TL's today (with his father as well), and both were blown away with both speakers. They definitely liked the HT2-TL's better, it was kind of their idea of "ultimate" as well giving the price ranges they would be willing to put out. In the end, we spent about an hour talking about the differences between the two, and I could tell the kid was really torn between getting SongTowers now, and saving a bit and getting the big fish because his budget was in the low $3k range. In the end, I think he goes HT2-TL, because it would remove any trace of "maybe" he would have later.

So--uh--When am I going to get a chance to hear and see your speakers?

floresjc · « **Reply #25 on:** 9 Jan 2011, 06:28 am »

The next time you are in Omaha, Nebraska

I moved shortly after returning from Afghanistan and I never had a chance to get you and Swerd over.

ccotenj · « **Reply #26 on:** 10 Jan 2011, 11:10 pm »

Quote from: floresjc on 7 Jan 2011, 04:22 pm

My opinion is this: the speakers are by far the weakest link in the audio chain. As a first cut, power is important in terms of quantity, you want to have sufficient power to drive whatever you purchase. Depending on the speaker it could be 50W or 500W. Once you have quality speakers and adequate power, you can worry about making the transition into what I'd call 2nd order effects, like buying botique power, going from a cheap Yamaha amp to something like a piece of AVA gear.

.....

Myself, I consider HT2-TL's the pinnacle of Salk engineering for what I would call the common audiophile. They are expensive, but they aren't so expensive a guy with this kind of hobby couldn't save up for. They will last a *long* time, it may be the last speaker you ever buy. They are pretty easy to drive power wise for a speaker of its range. They have *excellent* reach on the high and bottom end. They are easy to place in a room and their basic design and veneers are wife friendly. They are heavy and well made, when you plunk down that kind of cash, you want to be able to see and feel the quality. Are there better speakers? Yes, there are. But HT2-TL is where it all kind of comes together as a value for me. The SongTowers are certainly no slouch either and easier to drive than SongBirds. If I were you, I'd either save for the HT2-TL, or swap out your SongBird selection for the SongTowers.

i could not agree with this more... all very good points, grounded in reality and germane to "real world usage"....

i would save for the ht2-tl's... once you have the "foundation" of your a/v system (the speakers), then you can furnish the inside of the house (the electronics)... the ht2-tl's will sound great, regardless of the front end... $5k spent on a pair of them and a "good" used avr/integrated and a disk spinner would KICK THE TAIL out of spending $2k on speakers and $3k on electronics...

one other comment...

i am an equipment whore... nothing ever lasts too long in here... and it's not because i'm chasing "performance" (with electronics, anyway), it's because i like shiny new toys... when i was researching the salks, i kept reading the "may be last speaker you'll ever buy" comments and thought to myself "right. not me. 2-3 years, maybe."...

guess what? they were right. it really may be the last speaker you ever buy (at least until you need surrounds :p )...

i've had mine for about 6 months now (and their babies for a couple of months)... the only way i can ever see myself replacing them is if i move to a house where i have a big enough room to use soundscapes... i'm THAT happy with them... we listen to quite a bit of music (probably at least 3 to 4 hours every day), and there is nothing that i wish was "better" about them...

besides... if i even thought about replacing them, i'd have to find a new place to live, because swmbo would kick me out before she let "her" speakers go...

Willie Gee · « **Reply #27 on:** 10 Jan 2011, 11:45 pm »

precisely.

As I mentioned in my first post, I like to purchase things ONCE. The Citation is from my high school days for crying out loud. After these speakers pass my audition test (and i have a feeling they will) some stock will be sold, and money set aside. It's definitely time to make the investment in quality sound, the little ones are old enough to understand (and comply) with not playing with the big hunks of expensive wood with magnets that sonically vibrate.

The people who live in my house listen to music all the time, more than any other type of entertainment. Quality sound is something I cherish, and everyone else takes for granted, and complains about when it is not present.

floresjc · « **Reply #28 on:** 11 Jan 2011, 12:34 am »

Willie -

I have no children, so my Salks are fairly well guarded, but I do have an 85lb labrador. My Salks have put up with more abuse than most because my dog plays with reckless abandon whenever something shiny blows by.

I have to credit Jim with solid craftsmanship, my HT2-TL's have never undergone an incident, but all 4 of my SongTowers have dings and crashes of varying degrees. My dog knocked one over and it dominoed into the other, and I thought for sure the sidewall was punctured because my home theater processer "caught" it on the corner. There is a very very slight impression (can't really see it, only feel it), but performance is no worse for the wear. Jim's speakers aren't easy to knock over to begin with, but my SongTowers have survived 4 incidents with no real damage (just a couple minor dings). But I'm probably lucky in that regard.

ratso · « **Reply #29 on:** 11 Jan 2011, 07:15 pm »

the HT2-TL's are better speakers. this isn't any knock on the songs which are great, but the 2's are better. if you can swing them, you won't regret it IMO.

ratso · « **Reply #30 on:** 11 Jan 2011, 07:22 pm »

Quote from: floresjc on 11 Jan 2011, 12:34 am

I have to credit Jim with solid craftsmanship, my HT2-TL's have never undergone an incident, but all 4 of my SongTowers have dings and crashes of varying degrees.

--- outriggers? http://www.soundocity.com/

although depending on how nuts your dog is, it might not help...

charmerci · « **Reply #31 on:** 12 Jan 2011, 12:49 am »

I would think more in terms of cloth covered cinder blocks surrounding the speakers!

Art_Chicago · « **Reply #32 on:** 12 Jan 2011, 02:33 am »

Quote from: floresjc on 11 Jan 2011, 12:34 am

My dog knocked one over and it dominoed into the other, and I thought for sure the sidewall was punctured because my home theater processer "caught" it on the corner. There is a very very slight impression (can't really see it, only feel it), but performance is no worse for the wear.

man, that would be a fun scene to watch

kids, on the other hand, can do serious damage, that is why they are "just" kids

albireo13 · « **Reply #33 on:** 17 Jun 2011, 11:25 am »

How would the HT1-TLs compare to the STs?
They are in between the ST and HT2-TL in terms of cost. I am wondering if they are a step up from the Songtowers and thus might be another option?

Rob

Nuance · « **Reply #34 on:** 17 Jun 2011, 01:04 pm »

Quote from: albireo13 on 17 Jun 2011, 11:25 am

How would the HT1-TLs compare to the STs?
They are in between the ST and HT2-TL in terms of cost. I am wondering if they are a step up from the Songtowers and thus might be another option?

Rob

If crossed over to a subwoofer, I'd probably guess the SongTower's with the ribbon tweeter will be 95% of the HT1-TL's, just as they are 95% of the HT2-TL's IMO. We directly compared both for the first time at our WI GTG a couple months back (end of April I think), and they were both very close. However, when not crossed over the HT2-TL's have much better better punch and reach a lot lower. The midrange resolution is also a bit better IMO. Finally, the Veracity line (HT2-TL's) will also fill a larger room better.

One of the greatest attributes of a Salk speaker (regardless of the model) is that the midrange will always be "correct" right out of the box. The things you get as you move up the line are better bass punch/extension/control and a more refine top end. The one exception to this rule is the SoundScape speaker line, which improves upon every sound quality aspect. Everyone should experience the magic of the SoundScapes; they'll melt your brain!

fsimms · « **Reply #35 on:** 17 Jun 2011, 03:07 pm »

Quote

SoundScapes; they'll melt your brain!

Duh? Whatcha tell'n me!?

Bob

Nuance · « **Reply #36 on:** 18 Jun 2011, 07:01 pm »

Quote from: fsimms on 17 Jun 2011, 03:07 pm

Duh? Whatcha tell'n me!?

Bob

ricardojoa · « **Reply #37 on:** 18 Jun 2011, 10:33 pm »

Quote from: albireo13 on 17 Jun 2011, 11:25 am

How would the HT1-TLs compare to the STs?
They are in between the ST and HT2-TL in terms of cost. I am wondering if they are a step up from the Songtowers and thus might be another option?

Rob

i would say the ht1 tl is a step up even without hearing and yet owning any
salks. they go lower and the mid driver is of higher quality.
i went with the ST dome as i think is fit my listen habits better and my room size. i went with a custome cabinet, thats the beauty of salk.

DMurphy · « **Reply #38 on:** 18 Jun 2011, 11:13 pm »

I don't think the HT1TL is more appropriate for a large room than the SongTower. Although the HT1TL will go lower, the trade off is reduced power handling compared with an MTM design, or a an MT tuned higher than the HT1. The ST is considerably more sensitive and will play louder for a given wattage input. Bass power handling is an issue only when there's no sub in line, however. But even with a sub, there's no reason I can think why the HT1 would be better suited for a large room than the ST.

Nels Ferre · « **Reply #39 on:** 19 Jun 2011, 12:21 am »

Quote from: Willie Gee on 6 Jan 2011, 05:58 pm

But the SongTowers remain an option. Ideally I'd like to bring my set up and give a listen.

Anyone live in central florida? I'm in New Smyrna Beach.

I have Songtowers here in Orlando, so close by.

You are welcome to come by and bring your gear. I am very familiar with the Citation 24- I used to sell H/K back in the day and owned the big brother Citation 22. PM me if you are interested. Don't forget to bring your speaker cables- that vintage Citation had the odd speaker connectors. None of the cables I have here will fit.

Edit: I have no sub here, nor do I really feel I need one. We live in a small condo in the city and haven't the room for a sub. The Songtowers are stunning all by themselves. Come on by and listen for yourself.