[jsalk]

Martyo and Lee -

My old Zenith is not quite the same, but the cabinet shape and style is very similar.  It originally belonged to my great grandfather.  I also have a VERY old radio.  It is so old, the dial goes from 0 to 100 rather than 550 to 1700. 

Both of them worked a while ago, but I haven't fired them up for a decade or so.  I'll have to check them out.

- Jim

[winston1156]

Very cool radio.

I will go home this weekend thinking I need to look/listen to ht2tls!

This is a great help!

[martyo]

Martyo,
I was looking at you gallery and can't believe that I saw that you have the same exact Zenith Radio that I have, you even have the same clock over your TV as I have. I also have a Pair of HT3 speakers. I guess we have a lot in common.
 
Lee

How bout it Lee, great minds, superior tastes. BTW, we bought the clock in Northern Calif.....

The F3's are actually quite close.  You don't gain bass extension by paralleling woofers.  That just ramps up the same response profile so that the speaker will play louder for a given drive level, and each woofer will travel less for a given volume level.  But that does cut down on harmonic distortion, so the bass will sound cleaner.  As usual, specs tell only part of the story. 

Thanks Dennis. After barely seeing the W18 move on my HT3's, it was a little surprising to see those guys really working out on my bro's HT2TL's. They really have a lot of movement.

Martyo and Lee -

My old Zenith is not quite the same, but the cabinet shape and style is very similar.  It originally belonged to my great grandfather.  I also have a VERY old radio.  It is so old, the dial goes from 0 to 100 rather than 550 to 1700. 

Both of them worked a while ago, but I haven't fired them up for a decade or so.  I'll have to check them out.

- Jim

I remember admiring it when I was picking up my speakers.

Welcome to AC, Winston.

If I read the op correctly, isn't anyone concerned that he is 12 feet from the speakers and the speakers are only 5 feet apart?

- David.

It is what it is, must be a reason. Figured Winston was replacing speakers that are 5' apart with superior speakers that will be 5' apart.

Very cool radio.

I will go home this weekend thinking I need to look/listen to ht2tls!

This is a great help!

I see that you are in Milwaukee. By brother and I are in the Western suburbs of Chicago. If you're down this way he has the HT2TL's in 3/4" in a smaller room than yours. His speakers are a little further apart than yours will be. I'm sure he'd move them closer so you could get an idea of your own situation.

[winston1156]

That's very kind.  I may also travel to Salk Int'l hdqrtrs at some point... it's not too far.     I'm starting to get excited!

[mark funk]

Sure, we could have a listen. My room is on the bottom of the list to be finished so it looks like shit but sounds OK.  Some people say it is a little too dead . If you are really thinking about a little demo of the HT2-TL 3/4s, you should take a look it my system. We might be able to change the Pre to a T-8 and or an Ultra+ DAC that Martyo would be more then happy to bring over for the demo. My amp is one of the first Ultra+ 550s so I think we are good there.

                                                                                           

[Nuance]

Welcome to AC, Winston.

If I read the op correctly, isn't anyone concerned that he is 12 feet from the speakers and the speakers are only 5 feet apart?

- David.

Yes and yes.  That's going to be a problem IMO.

Winston, do you have the option to re-arrange?  If not I fear it will be difficult to get great sound in that room.

[winston1156]

I can max out at 6 feet apart and maybe 11 ft away.. tough room.

[winston1156]

I've been thinking about this.   WHAT IS THE MINIMUM distance apart for good sound?  I have auditioned several systems at dealers where they were not much further apart and they sounded fine (vandersteen, kef, tannoy, mcintosh, legacy b+w).

[Art_Chicago]

I've been thinking about this.   WHAT IS THE MINIMUM distance apart for good sound?  I have auditioned several systems at dealers where they were not much further apart and they sounded fine (vandersteen, kef, tannoy, mcintosh, legacy b+w).

I think Jim recommends minimum 8 feet apart for the ST's. But you may be fine with 6' apart - who knows until you try?

[Saturn94]

I've been thinking about this.   WHAT IS THE MINIMUM distance apart for good sound?  I have auditioned several systems at dealers where they were not much further apart and they sounded fine (vandersteen, kef, tannoy, mcintosh, legacy b+w).

I would imagine that the optimal distance would at least in part depend on how far the listening position is from the speakers.

In my case I sit about 8ft from them and they are 7ft apart center to center (so about 6ft from side of speaker to side of other speaker).  This seems to work well in my room.

Given the OP's description, I think he would still get pretty good performance even with his placement restrictions.  I think for most of us we have to make compromises because of the rooms we have to work with.  But that doesn't mean we can't get very good results.

[fsimms]

The  stereo image won't be worse than the B&W speakers.  If your current speakers work then the Salk speakers will work too.

Bob

[Nuance]

I've been thinking about this.   WHAT IS THE MINIMUM distance apart for good sound?  I have auditioned several systems at dealers where they were not much further apart and they sounded fine (vandersteen, kef, tannoy, mcintosh, legacy b+w).

I agree with Saturn, but will also mention there is no definitive answer to your question, because it depends on too many factors, with the size and shape of the room playing a huge role.  And since everyone's room is different (especially the furnishings), there is no one proper action to follow.  Ideally, you'd want the speakers 4 feet or more from each boundary, and as far apart as is your listening distance from them (like an equilateral triangle).  Of course, this is impracticable and likely not doable for most people, so you just do what you can.

Do I think the Salk's will trump your current speakers?  Yes.  Do I think you'll get decent sound?  Probably, yeah.  So don't let my statements deter you.  I am just wondering what you can do to better the situation.  Speaking of which, will you be able to treat the room?  This will go a long way in achieving better sound within your circumstances.

Oh yeah, I'm inclined to recommend monitors since the room width is small; so the HT1's.  The HT1-TL's will probably work well too, offering more bass extension, but might be a little boomy in a room of that width.  Otherwise crossing the former over to a really nice sealed subwoofer (SongSub, JL Audio F112, Rythmik, etc) would work well.

[winston1156]

Well this is interesting.   I can do some treatments but it is a rented office so I would not go too far.
I did think about the monitor/sub combo.   Obviously the issue then is integration. 
Two steps forward, one back!  I'm kind of surprised because the room does not seem 'small' just a bit narrow..   

[davidrs]

...there is no definitive answer to your question, because it depends on too many factors, with the size and shape of the room playing a huge role.  And since everyone's room is different (especially the furnishings), there is no one proper action to follow.

Winston,

Realize you are tired of your B&Ws, but before moving forward on replacing them, in case you have not done so:

Have you tried (temporarily) moving the B&Ws into one of the arrangements suggested?

If they are setup 5ft from each other, against the wall, and you are 12 feet from them, perhaps you have not mined their full potential. Mind you, I respect B&W, but their speakers don't do it for me. So not making this recommendation out of love for them.

If you have not done so, then I see this exercise accomplishing at least two things:

That is, an eval on the B&Ws set-up in a proper triangle to you and at proper ear level, and within the room.

- if you still find them 'tiring' after you have played around with some placement options, you've checked off the speakers in a more complete way.

- if they surprise you, you've gained two insights, one that your speakers are better than you thought, and that rearranging the room to maximize your SQ may be worth making some adjustments to your current setup.

- David.

[winston1156]

Thanks David.  I have tried some alternative placements.   The true lack of low level energy makes it hard for me to hear significant improvements.   I have to say, I get a pretty good image now so perhaps tweaking and treating are the way to go.

[davidrs]

Winston,

For me, it is difficult to ignore the lower frequency information and still enjoy music in a complete sense. Monitors that dig into the low 40s tend to be acceptable for my needs and I can live with that. Your baseline may be lower, only you really will be able to answer that.

If the lack of bass is truly bugging you, then I'd say move forward, pronto, either with a more full-range speaker or monitors with bass augmentation via sub(s). - you will be much happier.

[winston1156]

I read nuances speaker search... good stuff.  I read every dennis murphy post here.... good stuff.

I must cogitate... perhaps with a beverage.... I do wonder if ht1,  ht2 or ht3 are right for this room.    I have to say, at lower volume, I doubt I'll get a 'boom' problem in here if I apply treatment. 

One day at a time! 

[winston1156]

Winston,

If the lack of bass is truly bugging you, then I'd say move forward, pronto, either with a more full-range speaker or monitors with bass augmentation via sub(s). - you will be much happier.

I have to say my 'grail' was an older generation b+W 801 with the 15 inch woofer..... It just seemed 'right'.   
Plus it's fun speaker shopping...... some times

[coke]

Something to consider quoted from the Salk website:

"On lower priced models with a standard finish, we offer a 30-day in-home trial period.  You can feel free to return the speakers within 30 days, in new condition, for a refund in the event they do not perform to your satisfaction.With “custom” finishes and/or more expensive speakers, this is not practical.  If we only offered three or four standard finishes, it would not be a problem.  But normally customers who order our higher-priced speakers want them finished to their personal taste.  So if they were returned, we would have to wait until another customer wanted the exact same finish before we could recoup our costs. Unfortunately, this would not work for us.However, in a case like this, we would work to find a new home for the speakers and process a refund once the speakers were re-sold.  Our speakers normally sell quite quickly on the used market, so it would probably not take all that long.All that said, we almost never have returns and it is unlikely that you would ever feel the need to return our speakers.  The reason is quite simple: They are that good."

[Nuance]

Well this is interesting.   I can do some treatments but it is a rented office so I would not go too far.
I did think about the monitor/sub combo.   Obviously the issue then is integration. 
Two steps forward, one back!  I'm kind of surprised because the room does not seem 'small' just a bit narrow..   

Everyone thinks integration is so difficult, but it isn't so long as you know what you're doing.  Clear a few hours out of your schedule and you'll be able to achieve a seamless blend and apply PEQ to the low frequencies.  Most people just don't want to put in the time and effort, which is where this misconception comes from. 

I read nuances speaker search... good stuff.  I read every dennis murphy post here.... good stuff.

I must cogitate... perhaps with a beverage.... I do wonder if ht1,  ht2 or ht3 are right for this room.    I have to say, at lower volume, I doubt I'll get a 'boom' problem in here if I apply treatment. 

One day at a time! 

Concerning the HT3's, you'll get a ton of boom unless you heavily treat the room.  Out of all Salk speakers, the HT3's need the most breathing room IMO.  There is just no ignoring the tiny width of your room...I hate to say it.   I strongly urge you NOT to consider the HT3's; they just won't come close to reaching their potential.  Even the HT2-TL's might overload things.  It's really a tough situation...

Can you move the system to the long wall, perhaps leaving 8 feet of listening distance between you and the speakers?  Your room is big enough (15 x 18 is a good size), so what's forcing your speakers to only be 5 feet apart?  I'd say they should be at least 7, and have 2 feet+ of space from the side and back walls.

Do you think you could draw up a little diagram and post it?