Subwoofer for Omega 3 and Super T amp --- updated

Sarchi · « **on:** 14 Mar 2006, 04:39 am »

Confession--- I'm a former SET and horns "purist" who's had some strange revelations the last couple of years. Strange, because they came from the proverbial left field.

One is that I think I might be a bass freak.

Putting a cheap Infinity 8" sub into my 2-ch TV system (can't really call it an HT) has increased my enjoyment of movies and music related shows immensely. I don't have it cranked or booming, but I can't believe how much visceral pleasure I get from the damn thing. I don't know if I can go back to speakers with nothing below 60-80!! There, I've said it...now give me my 50 lashes and I'll take it like a man.

(Trust me, a couple of years ago I wouldn't even look at a sub, even if it sold for $5k and even if Art Dudley himself delivered it to me in his SAAB all wrapped in glitter. I mean it)

Now for my music system, I'm still waiting for my TS-3's to arrive, but I'm 99% sure that even if I think they have a pleasing bass tone, I'll want a sub. I'll be using a Super T amp, and my Rega 3 tt. So I guess I need a sub that has a line level low or high pass. From my reading, the Hsu and SVS are the best out there for a budget of $400-500...any opinions from the purist crowd? ..other than to wash my ears out with hydrochloric acid?

I thought Louie made a sub, but the Omega site just has a 'recommended subs' placeholder page.

mcgsxr · « **Reply #1 on:** 14 Mar 2006, 01:12 pm »

Welcome to bass camp...

Here is an interesting option for you, if used is OK...

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=26476 I recall hearing one of these, and liking how musical it was too.

I would also consider DIY sub building... certainly bang for the buck.

REL might also be a good one to consider, if musical subs are your thing.

CJ Paul · « **Reply #2 on:** 14 Mar 2006, 02:45 pm »

DIY is the way to go. BIG critically damped sealed box. Also, stay away from REL, a friend of mine from another forum showed me some REL test results from a third forum that were not good. Granted they were "user measurements" but their technique was the same used by smaller/start up companies such as SVS for testing specs without a huge anechoic chamber. I can post some links if you want. Also, given the right implementation, there is nothing wrong with SVS or HSU. They are not "home theater" subs and can sound quite musical. I still prefer a sealed sub for music based on both theory and experience. I use an infinite baffle which is like having a gigantic sealed box. I also have TONS of overhead so I get extremely low distortion.

skrivis · « **Reply #3 on:** 14 Mar 2006, 03:06 pm »

Someone else here on AC was telling me about an ADIRE Rava sub he owns. I took a look at the updated model of that on the ADIRE site, and it looks like a very capable and flexible sub.

System Q is 0.6, so it's not just a "bass" maker.

http://www.adireaudio.com/Home/Rava.htm

CJ Paul · « **Reply #4 on:** 14 Mar 2006, 03:24 pm »

Yep, the Rava is a good sub. How big is your listening room and what is the associated equipment?

Dmason · « **Reply #5 on:** 14 Mar 2006, 03:27 pm »

There is a fellow here in my town who had me over to listen to his Super 3's, the interesting point was the fact that these had the Fostex F120A little AlNiCo unit, and he was using exactly this Adire sub you mention. I told him I hated the damn things, subs that is, and his reply was that that was all about to change; and so it did, and in no uncertain terms. Extremely tight just the facts bass from hell, and it meshed seamlessly with the little 120's. He really had it dialed in, the Omegas were shelved @ ~90Hz or so, and he was using BrianGT GC monoblocks with some sort of tube pre amp. I mean, this was a completely astonishing sound system. As this thread is asking about subs for Omega, this is all I can offer. I would just either get the Adire, or get the parts. Madisound has the cabinets, everything else from Adire. For the saving of the hassle, the slight difference in $ 'twould be ideal to get Wiggins & Co., to cobble one up for you, and thus it will arrive with a guarantee. Good advice on the Adire Rava.

GHM · « **Reply #6 on:** 14 Mar 2006, 03:57 pm »

Oh Yes the Adire Ravas are terrific subs for movies and music. I used two of them with my Omega Grande 8s in stereo. You think one will get you fired up. You should hear two run in stereo. It is an experience!!!

Also you have the Acoustic Visions MRS-10 it should get your wheels a turning. With the Adire patent woofer you'll be off to the races!!

If you want to get crazy with it. Checkout the

Pinnacle series or the Subwoofer Complete Kits .

Let me add one more to the list... Rocket ULW-10 Subwoofer or one of its siblings. These subs come with microphones and auto EQing, so you can tweak out the bass peaks in the room.

I've also owned one of the SVS subwoofers with a Peavey 900 wpc amplifier running it from a nearby closet, it was the best sub I've ever owned for movies. For music stick with something sealed or that atleast sounds like a sealed sub.

gbeard · « **Reply #7 on:** 14 Mar 2006, 04:32 pm »

HSU makes very good subs for the money, I own an SFT-2 and it is very musical. I will take issue with the comment to stay away from REL. My reference is a REL Strata III and I have used it with many different speakers including Merlin, Audio Note, Nola, and of course the Omega Grande 6s and the new Superhemps. I have found it to be extremely flexible and very musical. It is not a BOOM BOOM sub and in fact, it has been my experience that when set correctly (for me) I cannot "hear" it at all, but rather detect its presence because of an overall increase in spatial cues, depth of stage, greater impact and pressurization of the room, and of course a couple of extra musical octaves that seem to eminate from the speakers, not the sub.

I have heard good things about the Nola sub and the ACI, but I have never heard them...

Good luck!

CJ Paul · « **Reply #8 on:** 14 Mar 2006, 04:53 pm »

Here is the REL information I was referring to. Take all the issue you want, makes not difference to me. Yes, they are ground plane measurements but if you take issue with the technique then you pretty much take issue with SVS and every other non-gigantic sub manufacturer out there because this is the standard measurement and evaluation technique. I guess you can take comfort that those aren't the subs you own.

http://www.avtalk.co.uk/forum/index.php?t=msg&th=13370&start=0&rid=14&SQ=1127556373

http://www.avtalk.co.uk/forum/index.php?t=msg&th=13368&start=0&rid=14&SQ=1127556913

gbeard · « **Reply #9 on:** 14 Mar 2006, 05:07 pm »

Quote

Take all the issue you want, makes not difference to me.

CJ Paul,

I didn't think I was being inflammatory with my previous statement and it certainly was not directed at you personally. I was only adding the observation that in my opinion and in my system, the REL Strata III is an excellent sub and shouldn't be written off as a viable option for the original poster.

CJ Paul · « **Reply #10 on:** 14 Mar 2006, 05:17 pm »

Likewise. I've no experience with REL subs and I'm sure like all companies they make a variety of products whose performance and quality varies with the price. I'm sure RELs top of the line subs are great. I think what that info shows though is that some of their lesser models are probably not a good bang for the buck.

JeffB · « **Reply #11 on:** 14 Mar 2006, 06:06 pm »

Since the Rocket subs and EQ were mentioned, I have a question. I sent this question to Rocket and received no reply.

My room is 14 ft. wide and I have a +17db room mode at 80Hz.
If I want to cross-over my sub at say 60Hz, then it is my main speakers that need EQ and not my sub-woofer. Does the rocket EQ only work with the sub or can it affect the mains also?

Also, I would desire a high pass filter on the mains. I don't think the Rocket subs or most subs for that matter provide such an option.

I am thinking that perhaps the best option for the crossover and the EQ are the Behringer 2496dcx. At least it is not an expensive option.

CJ Paul · « **Reply #12 on:** 14 Mar 2006, 06:11 pm »

In theory yes, you need to EQ your mains. In reality 1) crossovers are not brick walls, your sub will still be contributing SIGNIFICANTLY at 80hz with a 70hz crossover. So EQing the sub might kill that output enough to make the overall output flatter. 2) I wouldn't EQ my mains. At least, no with anything I could afford to purchase to use to EQ them. EQing a sub is fine, for higher frequency acoustic problems, I'd go with room treatments. 3) Based on my recent experience, I'd go with a BFD plus Room EQ Wizard if you are technically inclined. If not, I'd go with the Velodyne SMS-1. I don't think the product from AV-123 is the best solution for the situation you are describing.

JeffB · « **Reply #13 on:** 14 Mar 2006, 06:27 pm »

What is a BFD?

CJ Paul · « **Reply #14 on:** 14 Mar 2006, 06:33 pm »

Behringer Feedback Destroyer. Its a pro-audio device that a gazillion HT buffs on a budget have latched on to because it functions as a parametric equalizer.

http://bfdguide.ws/

masi76gc · « **Reply #15 on:** 15 Mar 2006, 12:43 am »

This is a very interesting discussion about subs with Omegas. I have the Super 3Rs (similar driver as the TS-3, I believe) and have tried two different subs (1 - sealed box, 2 - bass reflex, both with servo mechanisms)and found that both were too SLOW! Yes, to my ears, the Super 3R's bass so fast that subs could not keep up, resulting in sound that is not well integrated at the bottom end. Have others noticed this? If so, how have you solved this problem?

GHM · « **Reply #16 on:** 15 Mar 2006, 01:36 am »

I found by running the subwoofer or subwoofers 180 degrees out of phase the best solution.
After all the bass that is produced by most Single drivers in a enclosure is 180 degrees out of phase. It takes some work..but you can get them to blend very well. You also need an SPL meter, so you can match the levels between the sub and the mains better or just use a digital EQ.

ooheadsoo · « **Reply #17 on:** 15 Mar 2006, 02:15 am »

My friend that built GR Research's subwoofer for me told me that it was much more tight and musical than his HSU VTF-3, which sells for $700 or so.

bsuhy · « **Reply #18 on:** 15 Mar 2006, 02:18 am »

I had the HSU VTF-2 and the Acoustic Visions MRS-10 for 3 weeks at my place paired with the Super 3's.

I kept the MRS-10. Too much drag with the VTF-2.

I have moved on to the A8's, and the MRS10 is still here, and mates well with those as well.

The MRS10 is not going to rattle your walls, but then again, I didn't buy it for that. It has tight, clean bass, and is fast enough to keep up with the Super 3's and A8's.

Sarchi · « **Reply #19 on:** 15 Mar 2006, 03:49 am »

Wow, a lot of replies.

The MRS-10 could be 'the one' then... I don't see Madisound selling the Rava as a kit (anymore?), and it's out of my price range at 799 from Adire. Acoustic Visions also have some kits with Adire-branded amps and drivers... but they definitely aren't Rava level components.

My system currently, for whoever asked: Rega Planar 3, RB300 (stock), Nagaoka MP-11 soon to be replaced by a Dyna 10x5, Hagtech Bugle phono board, Sonic Impact Super T Amp, Omega TS-3's. Having found the Rega and Omegas second hand, this system has so far cost me all of around $950!

The Omegas arrived today and I'm delighted with them so far. Yep, I want a subwoofer. Solomon Burke isn't getting justice. But playing Paco De Lucia, Ralph Towner, Miles Davis, Johanna Martzy... they are quick, clean and they have all that midrange purity I love- in spades. Very nicely made too. And right now I'm just using the crap zip cord wire that came with the amp! I have some vintage Western Electric silk wire but it's fussy as hell, and the Omega's have the funky Cardas spade post.

By the way, for now the system is on (well, just above) my desk in my home office, the drivers are a bit above ear level. The room is small, around 9'x12', two of the walls both have a door in the middle, and one (entire) wall is taken up with my LP's. Still have to find a way to make this room work... it's the reason I got rid of my beloved Lowthers, Teres & Bottlehead gear a couple of yrs ago.

But right now.....Good times!

And Mark-- I'm down the road from you, in Dundas.