What does the measurements on a common $152 pair of speaker look like?

DanTheMan · « **on:** 6 Jul 2010, 08:15 pm »

Here's the answer:
Polar response in 11.25 degree steps to 90 degrees gated to remove first reflection shown in impulse:

overlaid impulses from above graph:

Average response taken from polar data:

OK, that's it. No more DIY for Dan.

Anyone know of anything that competes with these for a similar price?

Dan

dwk · « **Reply #1 on:** 7 Jul 2010, 03:17 am »

I'm fairly certain I'm listening to a pair of these that arrived on my doorstep today. I purchased them so that I could rotate a different pair of speakers down to our off-grid cabin and they seemed like the best budget option.
For the price I haven't seen anything close. Very impressive.

JDUBS · « **Reply #2 on:** 7 Jul 2010, 03:30 am »

Name? Link(s)?

-Jim

Wind Chaser · « **Reply #3 on:** 7 Jul 2010, 03:38 am »

Measurements are one thing but what do they sound like?

DanTheMan · « **Reply #4 on:** 7 Jul 2010, 07:57 am »

Well it's clear some people are not too familiar with loudspeaker measurements or what function various parts of a loudspeaker perform.

I thought we were in the lab. Thanks goodness some of you do. Those are not smoothed Behringer B2031P. Certainly incredible at this price point and better than anything I've measured at any price point. I wonder if anyone can show me better? Please do if you got them. I love an education esp a free one.

Dr. Geddes measured their active cousin with pretty much identical results. Look at the "preview data program" on his website and find Behringer in the menu. His comments on them are similar. You'll need to use internet explorer to see it.

For a comparison, here's what a famous internet DIY designer designed for this price point:

You'll notice the first reflection is a little later d/t the speakers height, but I set the gate the same for fair comparison.

Dan

face · « **Reply #5 on:** 7 Jul 2010, 11:37 am »

How about some distortion testing?

nullspace · « **Reply #6 on:** 7 Jul 2010, 04:02 pm »

Thanks for sharing, Dan. Those measurements certainly do look nice. The second speaker, surely a cone & dome, not so much.

Any chance you took some impedance measurements of the Behringer?

Regards,
John

wushuliu · « **Reply #7 on:** 7 Jul 2010, 04:03 pm »

I don't get it. These have been around for a while now. It's not like there's a new wave of speakers that all have extraordinary measurements making diy obsolete.

Napalm · « **Reply #8 on:** 7 Jul 2010, 04:10 pm »

Quote from: werd on 7 Jul 2010, 06:11 am

they are going to sound like crap, the crossover obviously can't power the high freq.... junk.!!!

its sending power elsewhere for some reason.

Try'em.

Nap.

DanTheMan · « **Reply #9 on:** 7 Jul 2010, 04:22 pm »

I wish I could do distortion tests well enough to post Face. The truth it though, loudspeaker distortion has to be pretty gross for it to be audible with music. That's not saying it can't be, just that it's usually not a problem for any decent driver used in the range it's designed for. For instance, I have a 4 inch FRer that just should ever play anything under 100Hz. It's distortion elements are only 20-30 dBs down and even though they're low order, I believe they're audible.

check out these tests for yourself:
http://www.klippel-listeningtest.de/lt/default.html

Remember that this distortion is added to what your headphones or speakers are already putting out. Unfortunately after doing these tests you'll be able to hear distortion more easily.

Practice makes perfect. And you'll understand that it's not typically a problem.

Wushuliu, it's not like they're new or make DIY obsolete. They definitely make DIY look less worth it unless it's for the love of it or you are more brilliant than any DIY guy up to this point that I know of. Those measurements are great by anyone's standards. If you don't believe me, measure your speakers. Just to get the quality of drivers that are in these, you'll spend more let alone all the other parts and not to mention the work.

Nullspace, definitely cone and dome on the second. Unfortunately I don't have a functioning impedance rig so no guarantee for tube amps. They aren't very efficient either so even if the impedance was good I don't know that I'd recommend them for typical tube amps.

Dan

JoshK · « **Reply #10 on:** 7 Jul 2010, 04:28 pm »

Those look quite good. Can you say great surround speakers?

The second speakers you measure look dreadful. Those are likely to sound pretty forward, which some might think of as detailed.

Construct · « **Reply #11 on:** 7 Jul 2010, 04:31 pm »

Quote from: JoshK on 7 Jul 2010, 04:28 pm

Those look quite good. Can you say great surround speakers?

The second speakers you measure look dreadful. Those are likely to sound pretty forward, which some might think of as detailed.

They were obviously meticulously engineered to impress reviewers!

FWIW: They are galactically better than Bose. Bose fr drops rapidly at 13.5khz and doesn't come back.

DanTheMan · « **Reply #12 on:** 7 Jul 2010, 04:37 pm »

Josh, we think alike!

Dan

nullspace · « **Reply #13 on:** 8 Jul 2010, 03:16 pm »

Quote from: DanTheMan on 7 Jul 2010, 04:22 pm

Unfortunately I don't have a functioning impedance rig so no guarantee for tube amps. They aren't very efficient either so even if the impedance was good I don't know that I'd recommend them for typical tube amps.

They're listed as 89dB/1W@1M and nominally 4ohms -- I wouldn't have guessed that they would be a good match with the type of amps I mess around with.

I'm still curious, though, what the impedance looks like. If it's 4ohms nominal, does it drop below 2 at any point? Not all SS amps will like that. And, how about phase angles? I would think that 3-4ohms and -60degrees is going to necessitate an amp that has plenty of current available.

Regards,
John

Watson · « **Reply #14 on:** 8 Jul 2010, 03:41 pm »

Quote from: DanTheMan on 7 Jul 2010, 07:57 am

For a comparison, here's what a famous internet DIY designer designed for this price point:

Sorry if I missed it, but which speakers are those?

srb · « **Reply #15 on:** 8 Jul 2010, 04:43 pm »

Quote from: Watson on 8 Jul 2010, 03:41 pm

Sorry if I missed it, but which speakers are those?

I think they are Behringer B2031P (Reply #5).

Steve

Construct · « **Reply #16 on:** 8 Jul 2010, 04:49 pm »

Quote from: srb on 8 Jul 2010, 04:43 pm

I think they are Behringer B2031P (Reply #5).

Steve

Looks like the speakers used to master all of Katy Perry's yelling....err cd's...

Watson · « **Reply #17 on:** 8 Jul 2010, 04:56 pm »

Quote from: srb on 8 Jul 2010, 04:43 pm

I think they are Behringer B2031P (Reply #5).

Steve

Thanks, but I meant what speakers were the second set of measurements (the DIY speakers) from?

Cacophonix · « **Reply #18 on:** 8 Jul 2010, 07:46 pm »

Interesting .. while looking them up on behringer website, i saw that they make active subs as well ... street price is ~$200. Wonder if anyone has used it?

http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/B2092A.aspx

srb · « **Reply #19 on:** 8 Jul 2010, 10:00 pm »

Quote from: Cacophonix on 8 Jul 2010, 07:46 pm

Interesting .. while looking them up on behringer website, i saw that they make active subs as well ... street price is ~$200. Wonder if anyone has used it?

No, but a couple of interesting specs:

- Fixed crossover frequency of 85Hz @ 24dB/octave
- -3dB frequency is 32Hz
- 24.4"H X 12.8"W X 22.9"D - might make good speaker stands for some monitors (73 lbs)

Steve