AudioCircle
Audio/Video Gear and Systems => Owner's Circles => Vapor Audio => Topic started by: Vapor Audio on 9 Jul 2015, 03:39 am
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I talk with people all the time that just don't get it. They don't understand all the fancy words on our website, and how that translates into a better enclosure. I'm not implying they're dumb, just that what is obvious to me isn't necessarily so to someone else. So I wanted to share a sequence of pictures to demonstrate a bit just what all goes into the making of a Cirrus cabinet.
After cutting on the CNC machine of all the cross-section slices, we stack them. Each top/bottom end cap is filled with about 5 pounds of our Inversaion Layer material mixed with epoxy. Once the epoxy sets we attach them to the cabinets, but not before also filling the void in the walls with Inversion Layer material as well. Also before attaching the end caps, the entire inside of the cabinet is thoroughly sealed to prevent any movement of the wood.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=124321)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=124322)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=124323)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=124324)
Once assembled, we do a rough sanding using a long bar sander to keep the surface flat, and then apply a THICK layer of a material that I'll never ever tell what it is. People have been fighting with the problems stacked ply cabinets cause for a long time, now that we've figured it out we're not giving away our secrets 8)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=124325)
After this material is cured, we have to sand again with the long bar sander. Stacked ply cabinets will be uneven no matter how clean your cuts from the CNC are. This material, and sanding in this way, evens out the high and low points to create a smooth surface for veneer.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=124326)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=124327)
I hear all the time, "why don't you make your cabinets simpler". That holds no interest for us, plenty of people out there are making square MDF boxes. If what we're doing isn't clearly unique, and clearly better, than I don't even want to bother. And I think we certainly have accomplished that.
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That's kool seeing how they are built. Demonstrating is always more beneficial for the the layman.
When I first heard the Cirrus after hours at Axpona 2014, I turned to Fred aka Gopher and he looked at me, and we're both like wow!
There is a tremendous amount of magic and rightness to that speaker. That's really the best way I can put it. If there is a better monitor out there, i'm yet to hear it. :thumb:
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That's kool seeing how they are built. Demonstrating is always more beneficial for the the layman.
When I first heard the Cirrus after hours at Axpona 2014, I turned to Fred aka Gopher and he looked at me, and we're both like wow!
There is a tremendous amount of magic and rightness to that speaker. That's really the best way I can put it. If there is a better monitor out there, i'm yet to hear it. :thumb:
Thanks man!
And the Cirrus is about to get better still. This build will be the first of the all-new Cirrus, we have a new woofer from AudioTechnology that has a stronger motor with even lower inductance and higher sensitivity. And we'll be using the larger 140-15D RAAL in the Cirrus as well, which is a significant step up from the mid-size RAAL 70-20XR.
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Great post Ryan!! This gives a clear and detailed explanation of the labor intensive process
that goes into your builds.
Don P.
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Do you still offer the natural look like the pic on your website? The "secret" layer you apply to the sides seems to darken the ply. Does this lighten in color once dry or do you prefer to veneer over this anyway?
Looks impressive, love to see what the new Cirrus will look like with the new drivers.
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WAHOOOO!!!! Thanks for the post Ryan, this is really cool.
Just curious, are the CNC cuts in the caps and top/bottom of the cabinets for some kind of biscuit joint?
Todd
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Do you still offer the natural look like the pic on your website? The "secret" layer you apply to the sides seems to darken the ply. Does this lighten in color once dry or do you prefer to veneer over this anyway?
Looks impressive, love to see what the new Cirrus will look like with the new drivers.
Yes, we offer the bare ply look instead of veneer as well. In that case we just don't apply the secret sauce, instead a whole lot more sanding has to be done to get the surface dead flat on it's own. I'm surprised that bare ply hasn't been more popular over the years.
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WAHOOOO!!!! Thanks for the post Ryan, this is really cool.
Just curious, are the CNC cuts in the caps and top/bottom of the cabinets for some kind of biscuit joint?
Todd
Those slots in the walls are where the inversion layer material is filled.
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Those slots in the walls are where the inversion layer material is filled.
Got it, like a warm blanket inside the cabinet wall. That's a really interesting construction technique. From Ryan's original description, I thought you were filling the larger voids in the cabinet. Thanks for the clarification!
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Ryan, how much sensitivity will be gained with the new woofer? Also, will the larger tweeter allow the speaker to play like a larger speaker (i.e. scale the images/stage larger)?
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That's kool seeing how they are built. Demonstrating is always more beneficial for the the layman.
When I first heard the Cirrus after hours at Axpona 2014, I turned to Fred aka Gopher and he looked at me, and we're both like wow!
There is a tremendous amount of magic and rightness to that speaker. That's really the best way I can put it. If there is a better monitor out there, i'm yet to hear it. :thumb:
Berto, Did you hear the White or Black Cirrus? I heard the Joule Black at 2014 RMAF and was floored at how good they were, one of the top 3 rooms I heard. The new Cirrus seems to be similar to the top module of the Joule Black?
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Berto, Did you hear the White or Black Cirrus? I heard the Joule Black at 2014 RMAF and was floored at how good they were, one of the top 3 rooms I heard. The new Cirrus seems to be similar to the top module of the Joule Black?
I'm not sure to be honest. Ryan could certainly answer this. He had modded them for a customer who was picking them up at the show, so they they were well broken in.
I never heard the Joule black yet. I am dreaming of the day Ryan takes pretty pics of a pair for moi. A pair that will transport me to the venue/studio, and allow me rock out with a shit eating grin from ear to ear. Let it be said, let it be written, let it be done :beer:
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Ryan, how much sensitivity will be gained with the new woofer? Also, will the larger tweeter allow the speaker to play like a larger speaker (i.e. scale the images/stage larger)?
The new woofer is around 1db more sensitive, maybe 1.25. That doesn't sounds like much, but it's essentially 30% more efficient ... that's significant. I believe the bigger RAAL will translate into scaled up images, at least in the Joule it does.
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As a Cirrus owner this is really cool to see. I think the Cirrrus from Axpona being mentioned were my pair and I have to agree they are sweet! Ryan will current Cirrus owners be able to have their speakers converted to the new design?
Also let me know on those grills when you get a chance. Thanks.
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I'm not sure to be honest. Ryan could certainly answer this. He had modded them for a customer who was picking them up at the show, so they they were well broken in.
I never heard the Joule black yet. I am dreaming of the day Ryan takes pretty pics of a pair for moi. A pair that will transport me to the venue/studio, and allow me rock out with a shit eating grin from ear to ear. Let it be said, let it be written, let it be done :beer:
Berto - If you are ever near central PA you would be welcome to come listen to the Joule Black. Mine are the pair from RMAF 2014.
Don P.
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As a Cirrus owner this is really cool to see. I think the Cirrrus from Axpona being mentioned were my pair and I have to agree they are sweet! Ryan will current Cirrus owners be able to have their speakers converted to the new design?
Also let me know on those grills when you get a chance. Thanks.
I personally doubt that current Cirrus owners will be able to upgrade their current speakers to the new version. The crossover will be different as would the baffle so it's a major change.
If you really want the new version, the best path would be to sell the originals and buy the new ones. And we'll probably still sell the original Cirrus as is because as you know, it's an awesome monitor already.
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Hey, it's been pretty quiet lately in Vapor land! Any update on this cool Cirrus build?
Todd
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Hey, it's been pretty quiet lately in Vapor land! Any update on this cool Cirrus build?
Todd
Lots of builds underway at this time, the Cirrus among them.
We have a custom 3-way Perfect Storm Black nearing completion, a set of Joule, 3 sets of Perfect Storm monitors, two pair of Cirrus White, Nimbus, Aurora, Stiff Breeze, to name some of them. We'll get pictures of all of them soon and update the threads accordingly.
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Hi there, I have followed this thread with tremendous Interest as I'm a sworn in believer of the slice construction technique yet I see that 'toddc2' had ask on the - 3 Sep 2015 - a question about the on-goings in Vapor land, and the immediate reply on the same day on the Cirrus build was (and how could it be different very professional and market orientated - all in all very positive and sugar coated - yet today a good 5 month later I could not find anything of what was promised so very eagerly 'We'll get pictures of all of them soon and update the threads accordingly' so I ask myself does anybody know about anything new or was this thread just another ploy to glorify ......
kind regards UpperCut
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Hi there, I have followed this thread with tremendous Interest as I'm a sworn in believer of the slice construction technique yet I see that 'toddc2' had ask on the - 3 Sep 2015 - a question about the on-goings in Vapor land, and the immediate reply on the same day on the Cirrus build was (and how could it be different very professional and market orientated - all in all very positive and sugar coated - yet today a good 5 month later I could not find anything of what was promised so very eagerly 'We'll get pictures of all of them soon and update the threads accordingly' so I ask myself does anybody know about anything new or was this thread just another ploy to glorify ......
kind regards UpperCut
I'm not in the loop, but I know Ryan had surgery and St. Louis area had a ton of flooding. Not sure if those events are the reason for no follow up. :scratch: I enjoy watching things come together on this thread as well.
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Interesting, if people are so concerned about a possible new build technique, how come they didn't email or call Vapor for a status. People do use email and phones these days instead of a forum. And as one person noted, Ryan and company have been inundated with flooding in their area and Ryan did spend and is maybe still spending some time out on medical issues. Give the man a break. gee
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Come on guys give the man a break!!! People like me been waiting for 20 Grand refund last 1.5 year and still not complaining.
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I heard from Ryan a couple of months ago to finalize the build out of these new Cirrus speakers. At that time they were mostly finished and he was getting ready to wire them up and voice them. I'll post any updates as they become available.
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I just received an update from Ryan. The cabinets have been glossed and are curing. The stands have been painted. He still needs to finish the baffles, install the drivers and voice them.
It's nice to see some progress!
Todd
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I just received an update from Ryan. The cabinets have been glossed and are curing. The stands have been painted. He still needs to finish the baffles, install the drivers and voice them.
It's nice to see some progress!
Todd
So what's that about 1 year from completion?
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Today marks the 17 month anniversary of this order. Sadly, I have finally given up.
Ryan, please cancel this order and refund my deposit.
BBB case: 11689345 FTC case: 75996567
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You must change the name of the thread to:
Death of a Cirrus!
Sucks to have your hopes and dreams dashed!
Hope you get your money back quickly.
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:(
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Today marks the 17 month anniversary of this order. Sadly, I have finally given up.
Ryan, please cancel this order and refund my deposit.
BBB case: 11689345 FTC case: 75996567
I take it yours would have been the first of this newer style?
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Today marks the 17 month anniversary of this order. Sadly, I have finally given up.
Ryan, please cancel this order and refund my deposit.
BBB case: 11689345 FTC case: 75996567
Not that I'm willing to do this personally, but what if someone wanted to take over for you at this stage and pay you your deposit money rather than wait for Ryan to refund you. Is that an option or does the claim with BBB negate that at this point?
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Not that I'm willing to do this personally, but what if someone wanted to take over for you at this stage and pay you your deposit money rather than wait for Ryan to refund you. Is that an option or does the claim with BBB negate that at this point?
The claim isn't going to keep anyone from doing anything Tommy, I think your idea is a good one. It's really too bad under the circumstances thou. I understand both sides of this one. Vapor already has a long wait time and I sure do feel for Ryan, what a horrible thing to have to endure and move on from.
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Today marks the 17 month anniversary of this order. Sadly, I have finally given up.
Ryan, please cancel this order and refund my deposit.
BBB case: 11689345 FTC case: 75996567
Way to pile it on a man who has experienced an unimaginable loss. I'd have hoped to see more compassion on AC. Heck that sense of caring and community is why I spend more time on this forum than others.
A real shame to see you do this.
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Way to pile it on a man who has experienced an unimaginable loss. I'd have hoped to see more compassion on AC. Heck that sense of caring and community is why I spend more time on this forum than others.
A real shame to see you do this.
Yes, it is a shame. On both sides.
Todd
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Way to pile it on a man who has experienced an unimaginable loss. I'd have hoped to see more compassion on AC. Heck that sense of caring and community is why I spend more time on this forum than others.
A real shame to see you do this.
I understand giving up, But I don't think it was appropriate to do this on an open forum. Ryan doesn't need the additional stress of everyone seeing that an order was cancelled, sad really.
It's men like you roscoeiii that make me feel like this is home base, people do care and it shows.
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I understand giving up, But I don't think it was appropriate to do this on an open forum. Ryan doesn't need the additional stress of everyone seeing that an order was cancelled, sad really.
We can all agree that the circumstances are very unfortunate. We must also keep in mind that a business must deliver on its promises, regardless of the circumstances, and if it cannot, promptly issue refunds. That's only fair. We've seen it often on AC where we have a one or two-man operation whereby health or personal challenges of the proprietor significantly impacts the business. One of the greatest challenges for small business owners is to keep the business going even when the owner is not around. It may sound cold, but when it comes to business, you gotta set aside your personal feelings and deal solely with the facts. Hence, the phrase, "It ain't personal, it's business."
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We can all agree that the circumstances are very unfortunate. We must also keep in mind that a business must deliver on its promises, regardless of the circumstances, and if it cannot, promptly issue refunds. That's only fair. We've seen it often on AC where we have a one or two-man operation whereby health or personal challenges of the proprietor significantly impacts the business. One of the greatest challenges for small business owners is to keep the business going even when the owner is not around. It may sound cold, but when it comes to business, you gotta set aside your personal feelings and deal solely with the facts. Hence, the phrase, "It ain't personal, it's business."
Screw that. I am at my proudest as an AC member when I see members showing each other love and compassion as very real struggles occur. Thinking about Gary Dodd, the community pitching in to financially help the sister of a me very, etc.
I want to live in a world where that is more common and accepted than "It ain't personal, it's business" being applied to small manufacturers like we have here.
Let's build community here and support our members the best we can, whether manufacturers or just hobbiests.
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Screw that. I am at my proudest as an AC member when I see members showing each other love and compassion as very real struggles occur. Thinking about Gary Dodd, the community pitching in to financially help the sister of a me very, etc.
I want to live in a world where that is more common and accepted than "It ain't personal, it's business" being applied to small manufacturers like we have here.
Let's build community here and support our members the best we can, whether manufacturers or just hobbiests.
I agree. What we're both saying are not mutually exclusive.
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Well, after a little over two years in the making, this pair of Cirrus 2.0 are finally nearing completion. This set features the larger RAAL 140-15D tweeter, a new Audio Technology LR woofer, and a cool new stand design. The finish is camphor crotch with a gloss finish, absolutely stunning work by Ryan and reportably some of the best finish work he has done to date. Internals are supposed to have Dueland RS caps, silver/gold wiring throughout, and other unspecified "freebies" that Ryan included for being the first pair. The details of the internals will have to be verified with Ryan.
Ryan (in accordance with his well documented cancellation policy) has been holding my deposit until he finds another buyer. So, it's time to find these speakers another home! These speakers are brand new and will ship from Vapor. PM me for details.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=160878)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=160879)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=160880)
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These are flat out beautiful. As an ultimately satisfied Joule owner, I appreciate the history here. Given how great my Joules sound and look, I hope someone moves on these so all involved can move on. Let's be positive.
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I love your Cirrus veneer!!!
When I first saw them sitting next to my Stiffies, I think I'd have loved your finish just as much as what I chose.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=160889)
Some new owner is going to be extremely pleased!
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I love your Cirrus veneer!!!
Thanks Fred! It was fun picking out the veneer, Ryan was originally going to show them at T.H.E. Newport Show back in 2015 so we wanted something that would really pop. Mission accomplished!
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That veneer is beautiful! Good luck with your sale.
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I am getting requests for pricing. That really depends on how Ryan did the guts. I am trying to align something with Vapor now on pricing.
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Todd,
Sorry that these speakers are not going to be in your system, but I am happy that resolution is now on the horizon. I hope for a quick sale and am excited for the whoever is lucky enough to grab them!
Ryan F
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Todd,
Sorry that these speakers are not going to be in your system, but I am happy that resolution is now on the horizon. I hope for a quick sale and am excited for the whoever is lucky enough to grab them!
Ryan F
Thanks Ryan F!
I really enjoyed the anticipation of watching your gorgeous Joule build being completed and I hope you are enjoying them. I have since moved on and purchased a nice pair of metallic blue Magico S1's that are performing beautifully in my small-ish 10x14 dedicated listening room.
I haven't heard back from Vapor on the sale of my Cirrus, in fact Ryan S has been giving me the "silent treatment" since 03 Sep 2016, but I remain hopeful that a peaceful resolution is around the corner. I remember your post back in 2015 advising me of patience required, boy this has been a test of it!
Todd
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Good luck, I've been waiting over 2 years for Ryan to refinish my cabinets that he messed up, now no response since 11/19/16, where I was promised Feb/March. Hard to eat this kind of loss.
I even went to lunch with him after his personal tragedy and now no response...
I remained supportive and quiet since they arrived with warping in veneer.
These will be my only comments on this...
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Good luck, I've been waiting over 2 years for Ryan to refinish my cabinets that he messed up, now no response since 11/19/16, where I was promised Feb/March. Hard to eat this kind of loss.
I even went to lunch with him after his personal tragedy and now no response...
I remained supportive and quiet since they arrived with warping in veneer.
These will be my only comments on this...
Thanks Eugene2,
I know that speakers have been trickling out recently so don't give up hope! I gave up in frustration but I am hopeful that Ryan will make things right for all involved.
Todd
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I know that speakers have been trickling out recently.....
Yes they have. I'm been carrying some of them. :lol:
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Yes they have. I'm been carrying some of them. :lol:
Bob, thank you so much for your help to Ryan over the last year. I hope you understand what you mean to us.
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Bob, thank you so much for your help to Ryan over the last year. I hope you understand what you mean to us.
No worries Pete, it's all good Sir. Glad to help. :D
......might I suggest more bookshelf speakers, and less 300 pound speakers though.....???? :lol: