AudioCircle
Industry Circles => Spatial Audio => Topic started by: jseymour on 1 Dec 2017, 01:29 am
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I had been researching isolation footers and it is this review which convinced me to buy the Isoacoustic’s Gaia III isolation footers: http://hifipig.com/isoacoustics-gaia-iii-isolation-footers/ (http://hifipig.com/isoacoustics-gaia-iii-isolation-footers/). I installed them on my M3TMs a week ago. I strongly recommend this upgrade or any other good isolation footers to owners of a M3 or M4 series speaker that has the metal struts. It did not take any careful listening to hear the tightened bass, more concise sound stage/imaging and increased clarity and detail. It did everything the article said.
The other benefits are it raised the speaker by 1¾” and the speakers can no longer be easily moved. They are now gripping the wood floor. They use the ¼-20 studs (thank you Clayton for answering that question on a weekend). If you have carpeting, I saw Crutchfield has carpet spikes that go under the Gaia III: https://www.crutchfield.com/S-Ye9E1IDmAHu/p_892GAIASP3/IsoAcoustics-GAIA-III-Carpet-Spikes.html
(https://www.crutchfield.com/S-Ye9E1IDmAHu/p_892GAIASP3/IsoAcoustics-GAIA-III-Carpet-Spikes.html).
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I have heard the demo of the IsoAcoustics products at 3 audio shows, usually with Focal speakers. The difference they make is not subtle. My current speakers have isolation footers built into them already, so I have not purchased the footers yet, but, I will be purchasing Spatial Lumina speakers :thumb: and, at the same time, I will be purchasing the IsoAcoustics GAIA product.
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I am going to try some of the SVS ones for 50 for four,not sure if they will work as good as the iso's but worth a try for 100 and can return for 45 days. seems nothing to loose ,why not Eh!
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Well the SVS sound path feet are under the M4TMs now,Bill Frisell is letting my ears know that these are probably the new low buck go to for isolation feet,hope people try them out cause at $50 per speaker they are a no brainer and a easy tweek with IMMEDIATE OBVIOUS results,and thats cool 8)
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Well the SVS sound path feet are under the M4TMs now,Bill Frisell is letting my ears know that these are probably the new low buck go to for isolation feet,hope people try them out cause at $50 per speaker they are a no brainer and a easy tweek with IMMEDIATE OBVIOUS results,and thats cool 8)
Hi! Would you be able to snap a pic of how these look under your speakers? Thanks!
-dave
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Well the SVS sound path feet are under the M4TMs now,Bill Frisell is letting my ears know that these are probably the new low buck go to for isolation feet,hope people try them out cause at $50 per speaker they are a no brainer and a easy tweek with IMMEDIATE OBVIOUS results,and thats cool 8)
Looks like they include three thread sizes in each set. I like that idea.
https://www.svsound.com/collections/accessories/products/soundpath-subwoofer-isolation-system
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=174635)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=174636)
They look great,I will take some pics with mamas smart phone tonight.
The included 1/4-20 black phillips heads are EXACT length to bottom out flush on top side of speaker legs,happy coinkadink :D
I would love to hear the Iso Giai IIIs,but these are so inexpensive relative that I can use em for 45 days or send em back at no loss,had to try it!
So now MeShell Ndegeocello is breaking in the woofers and my heart,she sure is a bad ass bitch on the BASS!
Totall no brainer tweek,the ikea boards under the speakers have WAY less energy in em now and the speaker baffles more energy,so going to Ebay the fo.Q tape (102)for some tweeks on spiders and baffles.
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Hi! Would you be able to snap a pic of how these look under your speakers? Thanks!
-dave
I will put up pick tonight,I actually think that the round black foot ties the two round circles in baffle together and improves their asthetics,Kind of completes the look. They dont look top heavy now,know what I mean? Like a full size diesel extended cab 4x4 on stock rims/tires.Then some 22-26" wheels and meaty BFGs or such and your sight line is pulled down and everything is more proportionate
Clayton needs to buy these in bulk from SVS,another Kick Ass american company and include them as standard,how is that for the potential I see in this product!
If svs charges the public 50 you know the wholesale retail deal.Wonder if SVS puts them on their floorstanders? :scratch:
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Since Spatial loudspeaker don't include a resonating box, how much benefit is there to isolation??
The panels do vibrate, that's for sure. So I built my own isolation devices that serve two purposes.
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=174312)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=174313)
(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=174314)
The first purpose was to raise the speakers so the compression driver matches the height of my ears.
The second purpose was isolate the speakers by absorbing all the mechanical energy the panels produce.
The risers contain three different layers of absorption material so the base actually floats above the floor.
This also makes it very easy to make incremental adjustments for fine tuning of the position and lateral axis.
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Benjamin Moore Split Pea? :thumb:
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You got the first part, Benjamin Moore right. I wanted something durable in a neutral color so I went with Aurora bitter green. My first inclination was to match them with the Spatial white. Sometimes I wonder if I should have went that way, but I thought that might draw to much attention to them. :?
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=176531)
I found this to work the best.Isoacoustics Gaia III
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Hi,
I understand the Isoacoustics Gaia makes moving the speakers difficult?
Is there a suction effect where the footers are sitting on top of the floor boards?
Anyone using these care to comment?
Thanks.
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It acts just like a suction cup, so I will say it is. It does make moving the speakers more difficult, but that is what you want. Before I used the Gaia III my Spatials moved too easily on the wood floor. Now to move them I need to lift them up.
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Hi,
I understand the Isoacoustics Gaia makes moving the speakers difficult?
Is there a suction effect where the footers are sitting on top of the floor boards?
Anyone using these care to comment?
Thanks.
IsoAcoustic instructions are quite clear--do not slide the speakers because of possible damage to the elastomer bottom.
Yes, there is a suction created that prevents sliding. But on small speakers it is easy to tip them and slide furniture gliders under one side at a time. I use small squares of laminate flooring to adjust position on my tile floor and then remove the squares. IsoAcoustic devices stick to the laminate fairly well and the combination slides for small distances if I am careful and push from close to the bottom. I don't remove the laminate until I am satisfied with placement.
I have actually moved some speakers from room to room using furniture sliders. I would not try that with the laminate squares.
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I have posted my very positive impressions of the Gaia II's (same forum different topic} which is that for some reason, when I first heard them the sound was somewhat muted, and having bought them used on Ebay, I was ready to resell them :cry:. Then I realized it MIGHT be the rubber suction cup on the bottom so I put some Herbies Big and Tall Tenderfoot (cut into 3/8" slices :o) under them and was jaw-dropped (or floored, if you want to make a pun) by the improvement in sound. I don't think the improvement was due to Herbie's (although it might be) as much as the decoupling of the rubber--which has been known to be a problem. Just an uneducated guess....
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Thanks everyone for your helpful feedback.
Will try out the SVS isolators first to see how they fare.
Regards
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Unless I'm missing something, the Gaias and the SVS feet are pretty much the same price, right? SVS at $49/each, and Gaias $199/4.
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The SVS are 4 for $49.
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Got the SVS on my M4TMs and happy,raises em up a bit and the baffle has more "energy" in it now as its not going into floor through spike coupling
I am pretty sure the gaias are better enginered for the foreward -backward motion as they are directional in their absorbation plane. :scratch:
Read all their tech stuff, I am happy with the cost/performance compromise of the SVS footers :D
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I just found the manufacturer that uses the gaia II's on his equipment, Merrill audio.
http://merrillaudio.net/element-118-power-amplifier-monoblocks/#1523011845948-04ae8e92-a067
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For $36K adding the Gaia's is almost a no brainer. I have continued to be impressed with what they have done for my M3's and turntable. Next would be under my amp. whatever they are doing, it sounds right!
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thinking of getting these for my M3s? Are they easy to install?
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Super easy as they come with a few different thread types. As i said in a different post, my experience was that they sounded muffled to my ears and I was ready to resell them, but then I suspected the rubber suction cup bottoms may be the culprit, so I put some (Herbie's) where the rubber hits the floor and WHAM, huge improvement. I wrote the company about this and they were not familiar with it, so it may be that the floating floor over concrete that I have caused a negative interaction with them.
I believe these come with a refund if not satisfied, but mine are not going anywhere!
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thinking of getting these for my M3s? Are they easy to install?
here you go , take a look.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmK9vLIoVk8
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GAIA IIs come with three thread sizes (M8, M6, and 1/4"x20) included in the package but other thread sizes are available upon request. :thumb:
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should I get II's or III's? Seems like the 3's are rated ok for my M3's?
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The IIIs are a perfect match for the M3. I have them on my M3TM.
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thanks - ordered a set of the IIIs. Will post back once I have them and have a chance to listen with them installed.
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thanks - ordered a set of the IIIs. Will post back once I have them and have a chance to listen with them installed.
if your speakers are on carpet, are you getting the spikes?
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nearly 100 year old fir wood floors here - only carpet is area carpet but speakers sit on the wood floors.
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I've been looking at the Gaia IIIs to replace the spikes on my Cain & Cain single driver speakers. In one of the threads here someone claimed that little 2" X 2" DiversiTech EVA Anti-Vibration pads worked really well, so I bought a box of 48 of them earlier this week from Supply House for about $25.00.
They arrived yesterday and I not only put the pads under my speakers, but under my subs, under my amp, preamp and DAC and even under the butcher blocks they sit on. Did they make a difference? I'll use an analogy: I recently bought a nice high resolution mirrorless camera and have been shooting a lot of photos, but because I'm still getting used to the new lenses, a lot of my shots when magnified are slightly short of perfect focus. When I to get the perfect focus, the shots are incredibly sharp. What does this have to do with little pads under my audio components?
My audio system has sounded really good especially since the recent addition of a Mivera Purepower SE1200 Ice amp. But adding these little anti-vibration pads has really tightened up the sound and sharpened the focus, everything just sounds more precise and dialed in. Also, I have turned up the bass in my subs without getting any flab, just more and deeper bass.
Do these little guys transform a system as well as the Gaias? I have no idea, but they have made a big improvement in my system for a total of $25.00
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Gents,
I have a pair of M4 TM's and received the SVS footers today. I have very thick carpet in my listening room and previously used the spikes provided by Spatial Audio, which I don't think contacted the floor under the carpet. I suspect the SVS footers might be more efficacious on hard flooring, but my preliminary judgement is that the sound of the speakers is a bit more coherent and focused, with the image a bit more stable. The footers for both speakers cost $100 so it is a very worthy tweak to considered.
I will report back further impressions I have with them. As I listen more critically with familiar music, I will have a better sense of their benefit. As an aside, I l do love the way they look under the speakers. Cheers from a "cheap and cheerful" audiophile, Mark
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I have listened my M4TM's with the SVS footers for a few days and I take back my initial impressions of them. I really came to sense that the sound had gotten boomy and diffuse, not at all to my liking. I swapped the spikes back in and the detail and focus is back completely. Note that I have very thick carpet so you might find that they perform much better on hardwood floors. It was worth a try. Mark
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I received my Gaia III's on Friday. They were a PITA to install - although brilliant part of my M3's is I just removed the footer bar to install them and then re-attached footer bar when done. Just not a smooth fit for the threads and tough to get the gaps and directions all the same. Took maybe an hour+ of back and forth with gap etc. Definately a firmer footing than the original Spatial footers. Feel like the speakers are more on a more solid footing. Now to the sound it has tightened up the overall sound noticeably over the stock footers. Not earth shattering difference, just a solid tweak with a bit more bass and a cleaner overall signature. A lot of money for a solid tweak but this hobby is seldom short of a couple hundred dollars. Overall happy with end result, they will stay - recommended if you are happy with what you have and just down to tweaking to make it more better. Back to the music.
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Can anyone tell me what the threaded bolt specs are? Size, pitch, etc. I'd like to look into a set of sliders to make positioning easier. I need to slide the speakers closer to the wall when not in use to please my wife.
Thanks! :thumb:
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The M3 thread size is 1/4 - 20.
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Thanks jseymour!
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Because I slide my M3's out for most "in-room" listening, and back against the wall when not is use, I was interested in the larger Herbie's sliders...until I saw the price. I'm not saying they don't work, I'm just not shelling out $270+ for plastic and bolts.
To make the speakers easier to slide, I ended up building my own footers using 8 hockey pucks which I drilled out to install 1/4" brass threaded inserts. I mounted 3M peel and stick 2-1/4" sliders (for use on carpet) to the underside of the pucks and bolted them on with 1" screws. They work great and have not added to or detracted from the sound. Just offering this up for any owners looking for a budget alternative to spikes. I spent about $40 for the whole setup. :thumb:
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Here's a video by Paul McGowan of PS Audio at RMAF this year. It's quite a convincing demo that the Gaia isolation footers on speakers actually work.
https://www.psaudio.com/askpaul/rmaf-2018-and-isolation-demo/
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Because I slide my M3's out for most "in-room" listening, and back against the wall when not is use, I was interested in the larger Herbie's sliders...until I saw the price. I'm not saying they don't work, I'm just not shelling out $270+ for plastic and bolts.
Would floor gliders like these (https://www.amazon.com/Furniture-Sliders-Gliders-Hardwood-Protectors/dp/B01N758Y4J) not work equally as well?
-dave
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Would floor gliders like these (https://www.amazon.com/Furniture-Sliders-Gliders-Hardwood-Protectors/dp/B01N758Y4J) not work equally as well?
-dave
Possibly. However, they don't appear to mount via a mechanical connection or with adhesive. Since they're only held down by the weight of the object on top, they'll likely slide out from underneath the speaker's outriggers. The M3's don't weigh all that much. I could see the amazon units working better under something extremely heavy like a cabinet or full sized dresser.
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herbies decoupler gliders are good I have an extra new pair of the small ones if you decide on them, will save you some money.
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=159827.msg1705977#msg1705977
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herbies decoupler gliders are good I have an extra new pair of the small ones if you decide on them, will save you some money.
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=159827.msg1705977#msg1705977
I am using Herbie's threaded gliders on my M4's. The differences are a small but audible improvement in bass, increased ease in tilting the speaker back to the right angle, and a big improvement in ease of placement since I need to push them back against the wall when not listening. With the gliders they can be moved around pretty easily on carpet.
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Is anyone aware of an alternate thread size for spikes on M3TM? I picked up a used pair of the speakers and my 1/4-20 and M8 spikes are clearly too large for the threaded hole on the legs.
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There is only one thread size for the M3 series: 1/4-20.
Get a 1/4-20 tap from the a hardware store and clear out the hole and you should be fine.
Clayton
www.spatialaudio.us
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Hello Clayton, thank you for that prompt reply! I'll do that. Cheers
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Anyone care to speculate on *how much* of an impact footers will have on reducing bass being transmitted through an apartment floor?
I'm interested in their performance benefits for me, for sure ... but I'm even more interested in avoiding noise complaints from downstairs neighbors -- the risk of which is the only thing that is keeping me from buying a set of M3TS at the moment.
I moved to standmounts years ago in order to be a better neighbor, but they've never quite satisfied. (The parade of of standmounts, I mean. The neighbors are great.)
I know the best answer is "just move," and I'm honestly considering that as well. But thought it was at least worth exploring the idea of having my cake and eating -- err, listening? -- it too.
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Anyone care to speculate on *how much* of an impact footers will have on reducing bass being transmitted through an apartment floor?
I'm interested in their performance benefits for me, for sure ... but I'm even more interested in avoiding noise complaints from downstairs neighbors -- the risk of which is the only thing that is keeping me from buying a set of M3TS at the moment.
I moved to standmounts years ago in order to be a better neighbor, but they've never quite satisfied. (The parade of of standmounts, I mean. The neighbors are great.)
I know the best answer is "just move," and I'm honestly considering that as well. But thought it was at least worth exploring the idea of having my cake and eating -- err, listening? -- it too.
Screw it, I'm moving.
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You're probably right about moving. Short of headphones, you know how bass travels when there's some a-hole driving down the road blasting his sub.
You could try calling or emailing iso-acoustics, as they make great products and would know how much bass reduction would be involved with their products.
But, neighbors, will listen for ANY kind of sound, once they find it disagreeable, good luck!
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Screw it, I'm moving.
crutchfield has a 60 day return policy try the gias, what do you have to lose?
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I found these very effective at de coupling and improving bass quality. Very affordable and 45 day return. Ya can't loose.
https://www.svsound.com/collections/accessories/products/soundpath-subwoofer-isolation-system
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=174313)
May anyone explain what's the wire loop on the negative terminal?
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Wondering if something like the link below would have any positive effects for my Spatial M3T S. They sit on a floating Vinyl Plank flooring system in my basement. I have been researching DIY / cheap ways to maximize isolation. Any thoughts?
https://www.amazon.com/LBG-Products-Anti-Vibration-Conditioner-Compressors/dp/B07KFZ1G6W/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=LBG+Products+Rubber+Anti-Vibration+Isolation&qid=1580344439&sr=8-3
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B07R4TV4XD/?coliid=I1G6614UREJDZ9&colid=XDRNJ9WNZ3WG&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it
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Some devices like IsoAcoustics are designed to work with forward and backward movement. I am not sure how the "blue oreo" design pads work for that. I put a set under my clothes dryer and it quieted the noise and protected my tile floor. I left them there.
I put a set under my front-loading washing machine and it made it vibrate severely and try to run off the rails during the spin cycle. I could not remove them fast enough. :nono:
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For myself, after a lot of DIY which includes hardwoods, brass, brass balls, some magnets, oak platforms, Barry Controls vibration control (look them up) and then finally trying Herbies products, and then IsoAcoustics, I've come to the conclusion that while DIY can be fun, it just is not as fruitful as what the experts offer. When you add up the money spent on DIY experiments, at this point I think it's better to bite the bullet and get IsoAcoustics. Rubber pads will not cut it.
Ric Shultz offers some tweak suggestions and he knows what he's talking about. (IMO)
Have fun!
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For myself, after a lot of DIY which includes hardwoods, brass, brass balls, some magnets, oak platforms, Barry Controls vibration control (look them up) and then finally trying Herbies products, and then IsoAcoustics, I've come to the conclusion that while DIY can be fun, it just is not as fruitful as what the experts offer. When you add up the money spent on DIY experiments, at this point I think it's better to bite the bullet and get IsoAcoustics. Rubber pads will not cut it.
Ric Shultz offers some tweak suggestions and he knows what he's talking about. (IMO)
Have fun!
yeah true if it doesn't work then there is not point. thanks for the advise.
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(http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=174313)
May anyone explain what's the wire loop on the negative terminal?
Sorry for the late response. Those are ground loops.
And yes, this DIY venture (the isolation risers) was well worth the time and effort as none of the experts have produced anything like it. Like any self appointed expert I could market them, but I won't.
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I've come to the conclusion that while DIY can be fun, it just is not as fruitful as what the experts offer.
So what about those very expensive crossover mods? :popcorn:
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Sounding great, no regrets! If you wanna get your feet wet, I would suggest replacing the resistor with Path Audio from Hifi Collective. Good luck!
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Drudging up an old topic. But I'm hoping to get insight from those that have paired Spatials with the Isoacoustic Gaias. I'm thinking of adding the Gaia IIIs to my Spatial M4 Turbos but I'm apprehensive about spending the money. I already have the SVS, and I like them. Not sure I noticed much of a difference using them versus the stock feet. They do look cool, though.
Anyway, for those with experience with the Gaia, is the difference worth it? I'm trying to get a handle on what to expect, so many tweaks have just seemed like a waste for me in the past. One other option I was considering...would it just be better to put the money toward a good set of tubes for my preamplifier?
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I have M4 Turbo S with Gaia feet. I like them and I thought I read somewhere that Clayton is putting them on the X series. Maybe someone can validate that. If it is true, I would think that Clayton would not add the cost to his product for aesthetics only.
Your statement leads me to believe you have tried other tweaks, some with failing success. I believe your room holds the greatest gains to be had. Without treating your room and cleaning up the havoc it is having on your sound, many of the tweaks cannot be realized because your room is over powering what gains the tweak is advertised to provide.
My room is not perfect, it is smallish 15x13x8. But, greatly improved the sound by diffusing the front half of the room and absorbing the rear wall. Also absorption at first side reflection points. Since I did this, I can now more easily hear differences in my system when I make changes.
So, if your room and your system are in good shape, I think the Gaia feet would be worth the change. (My M4s did not have spikes, just the basic plastic feet). YMMV.
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Drudging up an old topic. But I'm hoping to get insight from those that have paired Spatials with the Isoacoustic Gaias. I'm thinking of adding the Gaia IIIs to my Spatial M4 Turbos but I'm apprehensive about spending the money. I already have the SVS, and I like them. Not sure I noticed much of a difference using them versus the stock feet. They do look cool, though.
One other option I was considering...would it just be better to put the money toward a good set of tubes for my preamplifier?
Check out Herbies Audio Labs. I tried GAIA and Herbies and couldn't tell the difference between the two. NOS tubes almost always make a nice addition when changing out the signal tubes. They simply don't make them like they used too. Although the latest Shuguang Dawning series WE PLUS tubes are real good new production tubes.
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Haven’t tried Herbies. I have the Gaia’s on my M3 Sapphires. They made a huge difference on my wooden floors. Tightened up the bass which in turn improved entire delivery of all frequencies and enhanced the dynamics. I would think there is a dealer that you could buy and try them out.
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One thing to consider is that some people have more sensitive hearing than others. If you find yourself NOT hearing tweaks than stick to bigger changes like amp, dac, speakers. If you hear changes in speaker cable then you should hear tweaks that work. I have use Herbie's and Gaia's (IsoAcoustics) and IMO IsoAcoustic products are the best. I use them under my amp, TT, TTmotor, speakers, dac--all with sound improvement. I also switched out to Sophia Electric EL34's--huge difference, BUT, big problem with reliability.
I can't say what would work for you, footers vs tubes, but if you plan to keep your speakers I highly recommend the Gaia's.
As someone else said, speaker placement, and room interaction is very important, BUT, I just did some DIY bass traps and the sound is improved, but it won't tame a (50Hz?) bass problem enough, but does help. I ended up moving my speakers back 6" because Clayton says moving TOWARD the back wall DECREASES bass, and it did.
Good luck!
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Thanks for the thoughtful responses!
I've got the room treated, so I'm covered there.
I forgot about Herbies, I'll definitely take a look.
I do have the speakers on laminate flooring with a crawl space, below. I imagine the flooring has some role in how well the Gaia's perform, but unsure which is preferable.
The tube option is such a different route but I've had good results by going with NOS in the past, that's why it's so tempting to see if further gains could be made.
One real plus that I like about Gaia's is that they're likely a one-time buy and they'll last a lifetime...so long as I don't buy heavier speakers. Additionally, I know that many retailers offer a return if unsatisfied. I prefer to approach a sale as a final commitment rather than buy with a return in mind, though.
Maybe the one reason why I hesitated with a purchase of the Gaia's was a review that mentioned their result with the M3 wasn't as impressive as with another speaker brand. I know that every experience and setup is different though, hence my asking you all. It sounds like they do have a positive impact though.
Again, thanks for the input.
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Here is my solution for the X5's on thick carpeting. Simple, cheap, effective.
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=228447)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=228448)
(https://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=228449)
I have four of these grippy vibration absorbing pads under each board. The little 2 x 2 inch pads cost about $20 on eBay for a box of about 20, so about $1 each.